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Community Bake - Upcoming Details
By next Monday (April, 22) the details will be posted for our next Communty Bake. This way everyone can be ready for the following weekend after Easter, if not before. The bread requires no special addins with the exception of rolled oats. Quaker Oats or something similar will be fine ... | I talked with Maurizio
I have been in touch with Maurizio and expect him to drop in at some time during the bake. His willingness to help bakers the world over is outstanding.Oh, here is a tip. Learn from my mistakes. Maurizio uses a young levain for this bread. He states, “The levain used for this bread is the same yo... |
Slighty wet and no splitting during baking.
Hello,I've been trying my best to master the art of baking a good sour dough loaf, however I keep running into issues with the bake. I am following Ken's FWSY recipe book, using a le creuset Dutch oven for my baking vessel but every loaf I bake seem to be slightly too moist, ... | Loki, please post images if
Loki, please post images if you can. “A picture is worth a thousand words”. Once we see it we can better help.Dan |
How to Develop Sour Flavor in Sourdough
How to Develop Sour Flavor in SourdoughI just posted this as a response to a query, but thought that it deserved to be posted as a separate topic. I spent months trying to figure this out, and there was so much inaccurate information posted on the internet on the subject, that I... | What is "ash content"?
I'd never heard of it before I came to this site. To what does it refer? Just curious. |
Sourdough starter on day 2 (check its image)
Hello guys, I am a novice to this sourdough starter culture.I made this thing a day ago and now it's in day 2. But I'm worried of the large brown liquid formed in between the culture. Can any explain it being okay?(yeah I guess it's hooch).And secondly, sourdough starter sme... | Forgive me for being suspicious
However, if this culture is two days old, I am a monkeys uncle! |
Bound to happen sooner or later
Turns out that halving Maurizio's porridge sourdough is still too much for one pullman. This one rose so well that this morning, when I went to check it after the final proof in the fridge, the dough had risen to the top and I couldn't get the lid off. So I baked it hoping it'd sort itse... | I have often wondered what
I have often wondered what would happen if the dough in the pullman over rose. Looks like we’re going to find out.Failures are never welcomed, but we learn more from them than success :)I’m chicken, always under filled the pullman, but wanted to produce a square loaf for sandwiches. Any tips... |
Starter Is Only Rising 2x, I'm Looking for 3x or More
I have a pretty old starter (100% rye) that I've been using for years now. I usually keep it in the fridge when I'm not baking, but take it out and feed it once or twice (10g seed, 10g water, 10g rye) before a bake. It's been pretty happy because it's all rye.It's n... | Maybe feed it 1:5:5 or even
Maybe feed it 1:5:5 or even less, like 1:8:8 for a few times. It helps clean things up, and then when you go back to 1:2:2, you'll see more activity. Since you kept it 100% rye before now, theres a lot of bacteria that carries over in high innoculation feedings. |
Chad Robertson video posted by Bon Appetit
BA posted this yesterday -- a nice little video of Chad Robertson demonstrating 3 breads from one starter:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dyWZZVeWI&feature=youtu.beEnjoy!dw | Thanks for that link
It was nice to see the video of his process. Much better than looking at pictures in a book! ? |
Sourdough rise with different flours
I recently started a sourdough starter on June 15th (primary starter). It has been a 1:1:1 ratio of starter to water to King Arthur all purpose unbleached flour. After about 3 weeks. I noticed that I could get smaller bubbles, but hardly any rise. Only about 1/2”. Whether I tried a... | I have seen my SD starter
I have seen my SD starter being strong in a jar with daily feeds but it disappointed me many times with a real dough. Every SD starter is different so I am not sure if it can be generalized. The only way to find out is to try it with a real dough and see what happen. If it does not rise then u... |
Retarding dough overnight with no yeast
Hi Bakers, Can anybody make some suggestions about retarding dough overnight when there is no yeast in the formula. I have tried to do this a couple of times with some basic sourdoughs, but for the life of me, it seems to be very difficult to get there though to wake up again wh... | I've been waiting for other
I've been waiting for other to jump in cause I've scratched my head as to what exactly you mean. LOL!First...have you experience at all with a successful loaf of sourdough when NOT retarding it?Did you bulk ferment at room temp at all before retarding it? Did you only retard AFTER bulk ferm... |
Maurizio’s Oat Porridge Sourdough, Thoughts?
Not to bad for a self taught, want-to-be chef from Brooklyn! My scissor slash did not work. Lets see if I can inprove on the crispyness and the slash on the next loaf. | Better than I had hoped
The bake ended with a very respectable outcome for the first crack at this very complicated recipe. The weakest link turned out to be no experience with cooking under cover of cast iron. Go figure. |
50% Whole Wheat
Hello everyone,Lately, I've been trying to incorporate a lot more whole grain in my bread, as since my hobby became an obsession, I've been having a lot more bread in my diet. 100% whole wheat gave me a beating. It was very unpredictable. I'll go back to trying to master it soon. But until then, I h... | Very nice!
You definitely baked a beautiful loaf! Well done! |
Why build a levain rather than adding starter directly to final dough?
Hello, I've been baking sourdough breads for about three months and have been having pretty good success. My starter is a stiff 65% bread flour starter I got from a local,great sourdough bakery where I live. My routine is that I build my leva... | Vance, generally a levain is
Vance, generally a levain is built for a couple of reasons.Most bakers keep small amounts of starter. By feeding the starter 1 or more times without throwing any away, the levain will become large enough to make bread and at the same time have enough left over to perpetuate the starter.If t... |
Bob's Red Mill Rye Bargain price
Today Sat 4/20/19 at Kroger.com the above flour 22oz is $2.51On you 1st order you get 15% off AND free shippingThey have other flours discounted at this time.I hope some of you see this and win with it.Lou | Bob' Red Mill
BRM is discontinuing pumpernickel and rye berries. They say there is too little demand. They are only stocking rye flour. Sad.Patsy |
What's the point of shaping after bulk fermentation?
Just wondering how essential the bulk ferment prior to shaping is when making a loaf or two. I've gotten OK results by a longish autolyse, kneading the dough in a stand mixer to a full on windowpane, dividing and shaping, then letting the dough ferment overnight and ... | Mine is higher
I make this recipe about once a month. I’m a beginner so I follow his timeline, temperatures, and process order but using KA bread flour. He uses Bob’s. My loaves are higher and more domed but the crumb structure is not tons more open then your picture. So those are two things I do differently-the... |
Effective vs calculated hydration
Does the substitution of whole wheat and/or rye flour in place of WBF (say 10% ~to ~ 20%) change the hydration in a recipe? For example, instead of 500gr straight WBF (other ingredients being unchanged):400gr WBF50gr whole wheat flour50gr rye flour Do I need to add more or less water t... | Hey Dave, very observant on
Hey Dave, very observant on your part. The hydration is unaffected by variour types of flour. BUT higher protein flours and especially whole grains absorb more water. A 70% hydrated all purpose dough and a 70% hydrated whole grain dough will feel extremely different. The whole grain will be ... |
Stilton and Pecan Tartine 50/50 ww and bf
This morning's bake. Stilton with pecans. I did a 50/50 of whole wheat and bread flour with an overnight rise. | How much of the cheese flavor
How much of the cheese flavor comes through? |
New addition
I would like to introduce the newest member of our family. After callously throwing away Slow-Moe because I was sure I would never bake another loaf of bread (depression sucks.) Then mistakenly burning Sloe-Moe 2.0 alive, I give you Slow-Moe, "son of Jack" I was gifted a piece of "Jack" by a generous bakin... | Slow-Moe is dead - long live
Slow-Moe is dead - long live Slow-Moe! ☺️ I thought I knew depression, having experienced minor depression from time to time. But after seeing what another family member of mine sometimes goes through, I salute you for "keeping on". Thank you for not being silent. |
Shameless Plug: Starterless Sour Bread
In case you missed my prior posts: if you're tired of gooey starters that die in the refrigerator, fail to raise your loaves, get moldy or generally don't do what they're supposed to, give this a try.This starterless sour bread formula was developed by the USDA Eastern Regional Re... | My microbiology professor way
My microbiology professor way back then... actually brought this up in one of our semesters that was covering food biology. We had a lot of fun with it. It is an interesting way to get folks to study bacteria. |
Feedback needed - sourdough loaf
Hello,I am much happier with this loaf than I have been with my sourdough bakes this year. I'd appreciate any feedback based on the pictures. It tastes good.This was a 70% hydration loaf. 25% levain (with some rye in it), flour was KA's Bread Flour.TimeActionDurationNotes0Mix30mProofer ... | Taste is most important
The proof is in the eating. However to me it looks under-fermented. Surprising as with the starter ratio and timing given I'd have thought it wouldn't be under-fermented. Unless the issue is in the starter itself but you'd need to go into more detail. |
Reviving my starter from the fridge
Hi everybody,I've been having some problems with my previously thriving sourdough starter after I got it out of the fridge (on Tuesday morning) after a week or two. It doesn't double in volume anymore, even after 3 days feeding it APF two times a day. Yesterday morning, after feeding... | Bonjour le Toulousain!
Sorry to hear that your starter is ailing. I'm far from expert, really, but your starter might need a different diet. Do you have a bulk store where you can just buy a few hundred grams of whole rye (T130 or 150), or whole wheat (T150). Starters love whole grains, and for some reason, rye seems t... |
Adapting a sweet bun recipe to sourdough
Hello all, new member but longtime bread baker. I made a cinnamon-cardamon bun recipe from Epicurious today and it was a big hit (https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/glazed-cinnamon-cardamom-buns). The description of the recipe says that its an adaptation from a Parisi... | I wouldn't say I'm on expert
I wouldn't say I'm on expert on these buns, but I would venture to guess that you'd handle the dough the same way as directed. You've got the reductive in flour and water (as long as it's a 100% hydration starter), so give it a shot and see what happens. Ya never know till you try it. Good ... |
Simple Score I liked
Did something different and scored this bread loaf diagonally, and i must have caught it at the perfect time, as it game me a nice score line and I just though it looked good as something asymmetrical :) | It seems odd to me that this
It seems odd to me that this particular pattern isn't seen more often. Looks nice! |
Looking for a Rosemary SD recipe
Anyone made a sourdough bread with rosemary and or garlic. Easter is coming and I’d love to make one. Thought I’d check in with the experts.Thanks, Sharon | I'm definitely no garlic-in
I'm definitely no garlic-in-bread expert, but for rosemary:Add rosemary to dough.Perhaps put some chunky salt crystals on top of the crust.Profit.? |
Struggling to get my sourdough starter working- Australia
Hello all,I have twice attempted to create a rye sourdough starter based on the Larousse Book of Bread (Eric Kaiser, I believe). I live in North Qld, Australia so my climate is hot & humid generally but since I started my attempts at a starter, I've had my airco... | Take a break!
Starters normally show an initial burst of activity within the first 3 days. Then very often they seem to go quiet. Perfectly normal! While it looks like nothing is happening rest assured things are going on. What you should be doing at this stage is keep it warm, stir it every now and again and take a re... |
I was hoping for some feedback on my bread if anyone is willing!
Hey, I'm relatively new to the sourdough world. I was hoping for some feedback on how my sourdough bread making is going based on the crumb. This was proved in a banneton that was too large I think which has added to making it underwhelming rise wise. An... | looks great for a first effort
Would love to know the recipe and what type of flour you used. why did you mix in all the starter the night before? If banneton was too large then likely your loaf pan-caked out a bit...did you preheat your oven and in what did you cook it? Dutch oven, cloche?How hot was the oven? I ask... |
Fresh out of the oven for sandwich sourdough
Finished first attempt at soft sandwich loaf sourdough. I'll have a crumb shot tomorrow. Going to resist cutting into it tonight :) | Looks fantastic
cant wait to see crumb shot |
New Recipe for Soft Sourdough - Need opinion
I have been making some really good wonder bread style soft bread, and want to try with sourdough. Here is my adaptation and "wonder"ing (see what I did there?) what you all think. 400g strong flour 100g whole wheat 300g water28g butter (2 tbsp.)30g dehydrated milk powder... | did i miss the leavening agent?
how much sourdough starter are you planning to use? |
Pls help! White starter smell problem
Hi everyone,I am growing a white starter but something is wrong. I will appreciate your help.It's a few weeks old. I feed it twice per day according to the following schedule - 1:2:2 keeping 15 gr of starter and discarding the rest before each feed. It rises within 6 hours but has ... | yeasty sweaty bread???
Sorry...I loved your description. I'm not an expert...but since you already had established starters of other types...you are already ahead of the game if you want to start again. Did you use a seed from one of those to start this starter or as I assume you started from water and flour only? I ... |
I need an easy recipe to make bread with now that my starter is ready
I would appreciate a recipe or two for making my first loaf of sourdough bread now that my starter is ready. So far I've found two recipes, both of which have too many steps. I can appreciate the value of a slow rise and would like that to be over... | can't go wrong with this one...very forgiving
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/59628/sf-sourdough-giraudos-recipeI saw Mikes blog...like the simple recipe...his take on DMsnyders Giraudos recipe. It has worked each time...and I've tried it a number of different ways...different retards...and all have succeeded with di... |
Total fermentation time and effect on dough?
If any, how does the total fermentation time affect a dough? With the summer heat, my doughs are done in bulk after two hours, compared to 4-6 hours. Final proof is also faster.Does the dough behave differently if the total fermentation time change?Let’s say you made three i... | The short answer is yes. If
The short answer is yes. If fermentation is moving too fast and you base your bake by time, you run the risk of overproofing, gluten attack, baking a frisbee because the loaf has no structure left, flavor becoming too tangy, etc.Always read the dough and not the clock... If it's moving to... |
First Sourdough Starter - Type of Wheat to Use
My name is John. I am completely new to baking and I am excited to give it a try. For the past month, I have been attempting to use random methods to create a sourdough starter using Palouse Brand soft white wheat berries. It usually starts to smell like alcohol before I g... | Hi John, Welcome to the best bread baking/ advising
site on the internet. I do not have a home mill, so cannot answer your milling questions. Four years or more ago I began my starter with bread flour. If the gurus here suggest a more nutritious flour, go ahead and use it. Tho imho whole wheat should have plenty of ... |
Vote for The Perfect Loaf nominated in this year’s Webby awards!
Hi All,Just saw that Maurizio's The Perfect Loaf has been nominated in this year's Webby awards and thought you don't mind me posting here to help him with your vote! His blog is such a useful and inspiring resource for so many bakers! KatHere is the lin... | Kat, the link doesn’t work
Kat, the link doesn’t work for me. |
Help! How can I get an open crumb
I’ve been baking sourdough for a while now and recently acquired a grain mill to take things to the next level. I’m trying to make 50% whole wheat boules and I’ve been having a difficult time getting an open crumb (see pic of most recent outing). I don’t think it’s the whole wheat’s fa... | To be honest, this crumb
To be honest, this crumb looks perfectly airy, lacy if you will, for a 50% whole wheat.You are wanting more of an artisanal crumb style, with some big, and some little holes? I would try to reduce fermentation time, and lengthen proofing time, with less stretch and folds. A lot of people who ar... |
I have a disc instead of a loaf
I have been struggling to get oven spring for my loaves baked in dutch oven. This latest loaf reminded me of Terry Prachett's Disc World....Is this a case of overproof loaf? Or my DO is oversized for my loaf? Or my starter is an issue? I need to add that my oven is wonky. I would preheat... | Looks great!
Lovely loaf! I'd be happy with that.More oven spring will be down to gluten formation, shaping and baking rather than fermentation and proofing as everything else looks perfect.Question is...1: have you developed the gluten enough?2: have you shaped it so the skin is taut?3: are your oven settings and baki... |
Auvergne Rye / Seigle d'Auvergne
Lovely recipe from Stanley Ginsberg "The Rye Baker". A two day process with a two stage sponge. This is definitely one well fermented sourdough. Each stage of the two sponges taken to the outer limits of fermentation. Very high hydration, allowed to peak and fall back to the original si... | ?Keep making those and soon
?Keep making those and soon you'll need a bigger house! ? |
Kneading for 2+ hours can't be normal... can it?
Hi there everyone~I've been a lurker on this site since my starter's been on day two, reading what's on the forum and learning from other folk's experiences.Now, I'm here because I got stuck too.So at day 8 my starter was bubbly and happy and looked ready to use. I could... | OH NOOOOOOO don't give up!!!
Not sure exactly what the problem is...BUT wanted to comment fast so you won't chuck it! PLEASE...let nature take it's course! Your working way way way too hard. Don't give up. IF this is your first loaf...well why are you trying sourdough?? IF you do have some other bread baking exper... |
An Einkorn Recipe For You
From our friends at breadtopia.While I have my own recipe that I came up with for a lean einkorn sourdough i've never done an enriched version before which I would love to try.This recipe has both. Enjoy! | One of the best recipes I've tried is from Breadtopis
it's their Kamut sourdough in various percentages. It works every time for me. They are tried and true recipes I believe.hester |
Proposed Experiment - % of BF Rise
Albacore, aka Lance came up with an experiment (A Tale of two Bulk Times) to determine the affects of the percentage of rise during bulk fermentation. His quest is a subject of interest to many bakers, IMO.What is the very best percentage of bulk fermentation rise for a straight sourd... | Now..you make me think....
and my first thought is that I would define a bit more the 'best percentage of bulk fermentation for a straight sourdough'....as it so depends on what the baker wants to achieve or not that drives the method...and how do you define your 'straight SD'...what hydration, what type of crumb....wh... |
My first sourdough attempt
Hi all!First off, thanks for the magical bread inspiration. After lurking here for a while and becoming total obsessed with sourdough bread I attempted my first loaf. I've had my starter going for almost two weeks and kinda jumped the gun. I did a slightly modified version of a Vermont sourdo... | Take it out now
and add the additional salt. When ready to add, clear a spot on your work bench, oil your hands ever so lightly and then rub the spot where you plan to work without adding oil. Mist work spot with water and plop out your dough scrapping the bowl clean and spreading dough out flattish. Sprinkle with ... |
Need help...what went wrong
I need some help. My sourdough bread taste great and the starter is active. The picture shows the problem. I know I was rushing the bread and it was a cold wet day. Is this a result of the dough not proofing long enough? Or is it the result of something else? Thanks for any help you can ... | Classic sign of
Classic sign of underfermentation. But you knew that. I had this problem a lot because I lived in a cold house. I got a proofer, and problem solved. Its worth the 150$ or so. |
how hydration impacts rise % to be done proofing?
I understand that BF doneness varies according to temperature, salt content, inoculation%, etc, yet is there a simple way to roughly determine rise% to be done BF according to hydration of the dough? I'm just GUESSING and giving it as an example, but i would like to se... | Bagels are their own thing
Bagels are their own thing with a lot of different recipes. But in the 65-80% hydration range that I make breads in, the rule of thumb is that a bulk fermentation doubles or comes close, with dough texture and feel being the key determinant. Maybe ciabattas go a little past double but I don... |
My version of a Tartine
I finally got a "Tartine like" loaf to work for me! For some reason this Country Bread has been my kryptonite, my white whale. This bake is probably attempt 6 or 7. Only one other time did I get close to reasonable results, but the crumb was nothing like this one.I will get to the photo's fir... | Wow, that looks delicious.
Wow, that looks delicious. Thank you for sharing this. |
Fermentation Temperature affect Results?
Hello all,I've been noticing something about how the fermentation temperature affects how a starter comes out. For example, I was following the guide by Maurizio Leo that was recommended by Deborah Wink, putting my starter in the proofer at 75 degrees. The starter came out rea... | Most importantly, nobody
Most importantly, nobody knows the complete truth about what you're asking. There are many wrong ideas floating around, and a smaller but still considerable number of right ideas - but nothing comprehensive; no one has 100% of the picture yet.There's a well-known difference between getting a ne... |
Whole Wheat Struggle Continues
Hello Everyone,I've been hacking away at this whole wheat bread thing for a while now, and its nothing like any bread problem I've ever tried to solve. First of all, thanks to all of those who posted advice on my first post on this matter. Hester's advice was really good, her bread look... | 80º is too warm for the
80º is too warm for the results you're shooting for. How are you maintaining the mother and preparing your pre-ferment? |
Starter rises well but smells abnormal
Hi everyone,My starter usually smells like sweet banana bread and that smell was really pleasant to the nose. A few days ago, the smell changed to a strong vinegar smell that wasn't pleasant at all. I kept feeding it anyway and now, there's a flour/yeast/dank smell with very light... | If your starter is rising
If your starter is rising well, that is to say doubling or tripling, then it has the yeast in it that is needed to bake. Any 'bad bacteria' will be killed in the bake. I wouldn't be afraid to use the starter at all. As far as returning it to the smell you are used to, I'm not really sure abo... |
Conversion Between Starters of Different Hydration
When I would read my first sourdough recipes and would come across '20% starter', I've always wondered about its hydration (often not mentioned).What struck me at first was that did not seem to be taken into consideration in the hydration. Well, then I noticed that som... | hmm
I've been thinking a bit about this.I wonder if I should then try to keep the ratio of (mass of fermenting organism) / (mass of added flour) constant across loaves. Since those organisms will have to feed on the added flour (assuming the flour in the starter had pretty much been depleted of nutrients), this might ... |
Sourdough Starter Care and Use
Questions are raised here often by those new to sourdough, about the specifics of how to feed and care for sourdough starter once created, and how to know when it is ready to be used. The answer is always going to be some variation of it depends (followed by a lot of words about condition... | Sourdough maintenance Review worth heeding
Hi there Debra, A treat to see a post from you.Longterm TFLers & TFL archive enthusiasts will know your endorsement of Maurizio's post is significant. His clarity with regard the flexibility we can each use to maintain our starters to fit in with our lives/baking routine is ... |
Composting scrap dough and starter?
I run a relatively large cottage bakery. To convey our scale, we process about 600lbs or 275kg of flour weekly. I've ready through some of the other posts related to this topic made over the years, but am looking for a bit more insight into the use of sourdough starter as a compostin... | Go with brown, mostly
Disclaimer: I am a biologist but no compost expert. I've passively "maintained" compost piles for the past few decades, but use and value them more as destinations for kitchen waste and only lazily thereafter as sources for garden soil enrichment.That said, I would assign baking detritus to the ... |
My Best Sourdough
Hello All,For a few years, I've been obsessed with achieving an open, soft, lacy crumb in a high hydration sourdough bread. In the past, I'd achieved it accidentally and fell in love. So, I embarked on a journey of trying to perfect a method that produced this result every time. Due to not having a... | Well done
Congratulations.. your dedication shows! You should be very happy! |
Advice on a Rye Bread
Hello all,I want to bake the Auvergne Rye bread described here by the Rye Baker. So far I've only baked breads from FWSY and I've had a lot of success with them with very decent crumbs (not very dense but not super airy).I want to try this 73% rye bread because I want to work with higher proportio... | I can't say anything certain
I can't say anything certain about the bread, but I can say that "The Rye Baker" is not generally known for making major mistakes and then not correcting them. Rye bread being his particular specialty, and that recipe obviously having been on public view long enough to be well tested, I wou... |
The Sorry Starter
I was hoping that someone would be able to give me some sourdough starter advice. After a week fermenting and twice a day feeding for the next week, it still hasn't seemed to work.I started with Julia Child's starter recipe. Flour and water with a closed cheesecloth bag of crushed grapes. Keep seal... | Take a small sample and
feed it 1:4:5. (S:w:f) and just wait to see what it does. Also drop the temps down to 76°F. Bacteria love heat and could likely have the overhand if the starter tastes very sour. No need to keep it so warm now. The cooler temps help the yeast numbers catch up. Theory anyway. A 1:1:1 feed... |
Baking sourdough in a loaf pan
Hi there!I have been baking sourdough for a while but have always tended to bake boules in a dutch oven. Recently, I have started baking sourdough in a loaf pan and am really enjoying it. I place my loaf pan inside my dutch oven with lid on, bake for 25 minutes or so, and remove the dutch... | Video Link Attached
Hi there. Just last night, I was watching a video of a chef making sourdough bread, and he used pans, too. I use that method, too, because I like the shape for sandwiches. Anyway, I am attaching a video link that shows how the chef uses parchment paper slings in loaf pans. The video starts at th... |
Whole Wheat Sourdough Struggles
Hello All,I have been working with sourdough for a while, and on most recipes, I have found that sweet spot where the bread comes out open and lacy, just the way I like it. Lately though, my girlfriend requested I start making 100% whole wheat bread, for the health benefits. I thought ... | sounds like you are underproofing
both the bulk and final fermentation. 100% whole wheat is very very hard to do well. I tried it in August of last year with some success but frankly it was too bitter for my taste. Here's the link: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57234/100-whole-wheat-100-hydration Good luckHester |
Poor Ears Revisited
I have been struggling for a month or two with disappointing ears, or even no ears, on my batards. Sometimes they would be acceptable, but never with an appearance that I was really happy with. Judging by other recent posts on TFL, I am not the only one who has experienced this problem.This is a ty... | Maybe the first starter
Maybe the first starter includes a "hungry" strain of yeast that was consuming most of the available sugar, leaving little of it for browning in the toaster.(Maybe the new starter has more of S. cerevisiae, which say what you want about it, it certainly makes bread rise.) |
Sourdough not rising at all
Hi wonderful bakers! I'm Fatima, first time poster, long time lurker. A few days ago I tried my first sourdough recipe. I used a 2 week old starter that I made. Everything seemed to be going very very well, until it came time to bake. The loaf that came out of the oven was exactly the size o... | Let it warm up
You don’t say how long you allowed the bread to proof after you took it out of the refrigerator. My loaves are very dense when coming out of the refrigerator and I have to wait up to 7 hrs for the dough to warm up and finish proofing. Just a thought. |
Flours, flours and more flours!
Hey all, pretty new to the world of artisanal bread baking but I am loving it. I made my first sourdough from a levain that I matured over a few weeks. I was very pleased with my first result (see pics). This had me wondering what a long ferment with all these various microbes would prod... | Red Fife wheat's true genetic
Red Fife wheat's true genetic source (its "parents", country of origin, etc) is apparently unknown, but what it became - a kind of classic in modern wheat - is clear. Canadian farmers were still planting descendants of Red Fife (as the majority of the country's output, not as a specialty c... |
Sprouted Buckwheat starter
Hi everyone,It's my first time experimenting with starters and I started one a few days ago with equal amounts of sprouted buckwheat flour and water. About 2 or 3 days into the process, I noticed a pink tinted layer on top. Not knowing any better, I just mixed it in and continued feeding the ... | Buckwheat is...
Did your starter recipe originally call for buckwheat? |
Under and over fermentation
What might be the classic signs of under and over proofing both in the dough prior to baking and in the bread after baking? If there are some”classic” visual or textural signs to watch for it would be nice for new home bakers to know until experience takes over. Thanks in advance,kogaku | I think one reason this topic
I think one reason this topic gets slow responses is that verbal descriptions of the classic problems are easy to misinterpret. People end up thinking they've got faulty bread when in fact it's fine.Maybe it would be possible to collect pictures here, of some examples of obvious over- and ... |
Drain starter
my starter is successful and very active. It separates in the refrigerator into the dough and a liquid (like beer). Should I drain that off or as I have been doing mix it back in with the dough when I feed it?i tried searching the forum but couldn’t find anything. I read elsewhere suggestions both ways... | Hooch
The liquid is called hooch (as in alcohol). The short answer is: either way should be fine.As long as the hooch doesn't look moldy or have a particularly foul smell. If it does, then don't use it. |
Sour dough starter taste
I need HELP! I have a beautiful starter going, recipe from Peter Reinhart, Bread Bakers Apprentice. It is about 6-7 months old. It has developed a very strong taste, rendering my list of recipes kind of useless. I have 4 loaves in the freezer that the birds are getting. I did some research on t... | Where are you keeping it?
I keep mine in the fridge and it does not make strong tasting bread at all. I believe i have had it for about 3 years. |
Eggs and Salmonella in Sourdough Recpes?
I just found a really delicious recipe I would like to try with my start, but I just realized that it calls for eggs in the 12 hour preferment. I've never used eggs in sourdough before because I assumed I would kill my family with salmonella that way :) Am I wrong? I would lo... | be careful
Uncooked, refrigerated eggs should not be left out at room temperature more than 2 hours, according to USDA Food Safety & Inspection Service guide.
Leaving raw eggs in a starter @ room temp puts them in the "danger zone" for bad bacteria to grow. Funny, the same danger zone is exactly where yeast & sourdoug... |
Rye starter vs adding rye flour
Dear forum members,I just created my account, so this is my first forum post. I have a few questions that I was not able to find using the search nor a general web search. I will put different questions into separate forum posts, since they are unrelated.So, for the first one. Did anyone... | I haven't tried but...
Would say the main difference in taste would come from the fact that rye is fermented in one of the loaves but not in the other.To what extent this is noticeable I wouldn't know, but feel fairly certain it would be different. Need to try! :) |
Sourdough rising but not doubling
I started my sourdough starter on 6/15/22 with fresh ground WW. Since then I have been feeding KA unbleached AP. It took about 2 weeks to see its first rise. Smells sour and slightly sweet. However, I have noticed for about a weeks now, when it rises, it only rises about 1/4” over 24 h... | Try
In another small jar, with some of the discard when you next feed your starter, try the following feed...1/8th cup starter (about 30g)1/4 cup water (about 60g)1/2 cup flour (about 60g) you can use AP but if you can add some wholegrainSee how that fares over 12 hours. In the meantime carry on with what you're doing... |
Very Yeasty Starter
I have been propagating a 100% white flour 60% hydration starter for a few weeks for use in SF sourdough recipes. I've become tired of that tack, so I let the starter sit in my drinks fridge at 10 C for about 4 days, unfed.[Edit: It also had 1% salt]Today I took it out, baked it up, and ate it. Big... | I just remembered
I forgot earlier, but this starter had 1% salt. I'm pretty sure salt inhibits LAB more than it affects yeast.As an aside, I've seen a baker cause his fresh yeast to completely melt by rubbing salt into it. Yet the bread rose normally, it was not a problem. It surprised the baker because he had always ... |
85% white whole wheat loaf
This is the highest percentage whole grain (white whole wheat) loaf that I've made that turned out pretty decent! I am new to this, so forgive me if I do not have the right terminology. If my calculations are correct, the bread turned out to be 85% whole wheat (because my starter is fed with ... | Pre-shape
To eliminate unwanted large holes in the crumb, I pre-shape into a ball and bench rest seam side up for about 10-20 minutes, then do your final shaping into the boule.I think the crumb in your pictures looks quite acceptable. I would worry if they were so large that mice can run through them :)I love the sco... |
Sourdough not rising, advice?
Hey there!So I'm new to pure sourdough breads. I've been baking breads with commercial yeast for years but recently was given Flour Water Salt Yeast and wanted to try one of the pure levain breads. I spent two weeks making and feeding a sourdough mother, and then took a stab at the Country... | Let's look at the starter
I'm inclined to agree with you. It's all in the starter. Forkish is over generous when it comes to fermentation and if your starter is under performing then the problem lies with the starter.A complete history please... |
Tartine's Method for Storing Levain
Hello, Everyone:I am fairly new to bread making and have been working with both the Ken Forkish FLOUR WATER SALT YEAST book and Tartine's Book 3 on using ancient grains. I have created a starter using the method described in Tartine: Book No. 3: Modern Ancient Classic Whole. Since it... | You can now make your own schedule...
...for how to maintain your starter. It doesn't matter how you do it as long as you keep it alive and healthy. I can advise you one way but everyone here will have their own way.So instead of saying you must do this or that I will explain to you my method from which you can learn. ... |
Sourdough Tin Bread
Disclaimer: I am a new forum member and beginner sourdough baker. I have been experimenting for a bit over a year and am able to produce satisfactory results although not approaching some of the beautiful loaves I've seen posted here, even when the baker was asking for help. :) This is a loaf I bak... | I'm just making a crazy wild
I'm just making a crazy wild guess, but sesame seeds (naturally) contain quite a bit of sesame oil - maybe some of it came out and formed a sort of varnish. |
Thiol Questions
Hello all. I'm trying to close in on this thiol issue. So many of you have been useful in helping me figure out that it is likely thiols making my dough turn to goo before it ever reaches the oven. And while I appreciate the suggestions for bringing my starter back to health, I find it wasteful to refre... | Assuming that you're correct
Assuming that you're correct about what's been going wrong, you will see the obvious difference in starters quite soon. I'm guessing that if the suspicion turns out to be true and your proposed fix works, then all the water you put into your bread will need to be boiled also. |
Sourdough starter by Nancy Silverton-maintenance
Hello everyone! :)I am new here. Hoping I will get an answer!I have done sourdough starters again but I am so confused about this.I feel silly for asking this... :)So I have made the sourdough that Nancy Silverton has in her book "Breads from the La Brea bakery". I have... | Once you've made a starter
How you keep totally depends on what suits you. I bet no two people keep their starters exactly the same. There are some good guidelines though. Feeding the starter it's own weight or more in fresh flour is called a healthy feed. Equal amounts of water and flour by weight is 100% hydration. T... |
Dough vs Levain Flour Characteristics
Hello, first time on here but I've been an avid reader of helpful posts on here since I began baking a little over a year ago. I have a question about sourdough's effect on the flour it feeds off in a levain.Being that there are characteristics that make different flours behave dif... | We did this with rye flour in
We did this with rye flour in class. A rye bread using part of the rye in the levain as opposed to that portion of rye flour being introduced in the loaf instead. The loaf with the whole grain introduced in the mixing stage will have less volume and won't stand up as tall generally speak... |
On Retarding Rye Doughs -- Don't
New post http://theryebaker.com/?p=23 | Hmm, not sure about linking to your own website...
...instead of just posting your thoughts on TFL. How about putting them up on here so everyone can read them?However, I did go there and I suspect what you're writing about isn't the reason dough is retarded. Retardation is about improving flavour. Specifically, it's a... |
experimental starter made dough like clay
I took some of my starter fed it with whole wheat flour instead of my usual AP. It worked fine. Then I added about 20ml of pineapple juice from a fresh pineapple. It seemed OK except the bubbles were a lot smaller than usual, but it grew as per usual. However when I used it to ... | All about the protease
I think it is because pineapple contains a high concentration of protease enzyme, which cuts gluten. |
When to use starter
Everything online says to use the starter after it is fed and rises to its peak - float in water test. But I've found I get a lot more bulk rise if I use it before feeding and/or after it has fallen. To me it makes sense to use a starter that is hungry so it reacts with the new flower in dough, n... | When recipes
Have a starter/levain build it's more about balancing flavour and getting everyone on the same page. Everyone has a different starter so introducing a build brings everyone's starter in-line. A freshly fed starter will have a different flavour profile too and not everyone keeps a lot of starter. If you use... |
SD Yeast-What happens @93F
I want to develop a starter that is high in LAB. My plan is to mix 100% starter using 25% whole rye and ferment it @ 93F. My concern is how will that affect the yeast? Dan | What will happen to the SD
What will happen to the SD yeast if fermented at 93%? I read that 84F is optimum for max yeast. At 93F will they die, or quit multiplying or what? |
So Does your Sourdough Starter Have A Name?
It was brought to my attention recently that my Starter should have a name. After all as i t was reasoned to me "If you feed it you gotta name it," That got me to thinking Does that mean I can claim it on my taxes as a dependent?So for the sake of discussion Do you have a nam... | Bendix. ?
Bendix. ? |
The dead starter that wasn't. A question.
I only make my sourdough rye every alternating two weeks when I'm on a day shift at work.A couple of times in the past I had missed a weekly feeding on the non baking weeks and it didn't seem to cause any issues. Two weeks ago I pulled some starter out of the fridge a week a... | Anybody?At any rate, the
Anybody?At any rate, the culture has been revived and seems much healthier than the first go round. I've since fed it 1/2 cup twice, removing half of the starter before the last feed.The smell is very tangy/acidic with no hint of an alcahol smell. It doubles in size nicely over 8 to 10 hours ... |
Dough is wet and sticky after bench rest.
I've recently had a problem where after a 1hr bench rest of my hi-ex (stone ground Farmer Ground Flour) boules, the dough loses tension then becomes wet and sticky when I try to pinch the bottom seam.550g hi-ex550g AP50g rye260g levain (20g starter; 120g water/50g hi-ex, 50g wh... | why such a long bench rest? I
why such a long bench rest? I cannot say much about the mixer, since I knead by hand, but I have never let the dough stay for such long periods at the bench rest. Your hydration is around 75%, so after one hour resting, maybe this is what you should be getting. Another thing, has this alwa... |
How to fix overfremented retarded dough
Greetings When I retard sourdough pizza dough for 2 or more days, for the purpose of getting sour and tangy taste, it turns out slack and sticky, and when baked it hardly gets enough oven spring. What if I knead in little flour to refresh those hungry balls before proofing in tra... | You answered your own question
yes, yes, yes and yes! Carry on. |
Whole wheat sourdough raisin walnut chocolate buns.
Hello Loafers. I'm still reading posts on this treasure trove and baking about a loaf a week even though I haven't posted in a while.After trying some spectacular artisan breads all over Japan and some in Mexico City, of all places, I wanted to make what was my favour... | Nice looking loaves, glad you
Nice looking loaves, glad you got your starter revived. |
"Ripe" starter
I've been reading Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book, and found an interesting comment about ripe starter. She says your starter is fully 'ripe' when it completely dissolves in water, rather than merely separating into stringy clumps of gluten. I've been watching lately as I stir starter into the dough water, a... | I really should start reading it...
since I downloaded it when Mini Oven so graciously shared it!It sounds like a good tip, except... I can't recall ever doing a bake where I would be mixing the starter / levain in to the dough water! I always use an autolyse with all of the water (lots of whole grains), so the starte... |
Respiration vs Fermentation
Please help me to understand respiration versus fermentation as it relates to sourdough. As I understand, respiration is aerobic (with oxygen) and fermentation is anaerobic (without oxygen). I would like to understand what happens in a sourdough bulk ferment. So, the bulk ferment starts out ... | I'm no expert but I've heard
Respiration is almost negligible. There just isn't enough oxygen to even bother worrying about it. The little oxygen available will quickly be used up by the yeasts.If you whip a high hydration sourdough starter, it will perform better because you whipped in some air which provides oxygen. ... |
Doughooker’s San Francisco-Style Sour Bread
After rejecting ( because not sourdough) the idea of this bake for a few months I decided to give this formula a try. Since it uses vinegar, lactic acid and yeast, I am way out of my wheel house. But I am a sour freak and I’ll try most anything. Doughooker has obviously spent... | degraded protein
The behavior is similar to what you see when you acidify a dough to the point where the gluten degrades either under the direct influence of the added acid or indirectly through the activation of the native proteolytic enzymes in the flour which occurs at low pH (typically below 4).It turns out that th... |
Newbie with Sourdough
I struggle a lot lately with sourdough, I’m finally getting so me results. Sourdough behaved so much differently than yeast bread! Here is my latest accomplishment | Newbie
beautiful loaves! |
Comic relief
This probably resonated more during the dark days of the pandemic, but I got a kick out of it anyway...Signs your sourdough starter has been overfed | :)
Thanks |
Starter Bubbling but Not Rising
I started my sourdough starter on 6/15/22 with 1/2 cup of fresh ground whole wheat flour (hard red wheat) and 1/4 cup of bottled water. The starter was very active the first day or two, and started to develop a clear liquid on top (I assumed this was hooch). around days 3-4, I noticed it... | I am a fan of the pineapple
I am a fan of the pineapple solution https://www.thefreshloaf.com/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2 |
Non-baking ways to use starter?
So since starter is basically a mix of flour and water, I'm thinking it can be used in less conventional ways. For example, I've been thinking about using my discarded starter as a thickener for beef stew and gravy. Has anyone tried this successfully? Are there any other non-baking (but ... | haven't tried this yet but
But waffles |
Starter Percentage
I have a starter that has been fed 1:4:4 consistently. I’m guessing this is not what is called a 100% starter. What would it be called and how do I alter the ratio to create say, a 65% starter or levain?regards,kogaku | Kogaku, sorry, starter lingo
Kogaku, sorry, starter lingo can be confusing. When you refresh, you add starter , water, and flour. A 100% starter means that there are equal weights of water and flour in the starter. 65% means that the weight of the water in the starter is 65% of the flour. Those percentages are mo... |
Students baking sourdough - please help a teacher out!
Hello! I am starting a project with my IB biology class (advanced biology, 11th grade) where I will have them create their own sourdough starters and then bake sourdough bread with it. I am new to sourdough baking but I have been doing some experimenting over the l... | Noble Endeavor, Christina!
How I wish that I would have had a teacher like you when I was in school 50 years ago :-DIt would be great if you lived near one of our experienced Sourdough bakers that could work closely with you. Are there any good bakeries near you baking SD bread? I bet they would be willing to help. At ... |
Dough takes a long time to rise in bulk
My recent loaves are so tiny and dense. Not much rise during making of the dough and not much oven spring.70g levain ( 100% hydro, 50/50 white and WW used at peak)210g white wheat140g WW263g water7g salt11:00 - Autolyse with just flour and water13:00 - Add salt and levain, dimple... | Your bread looks very nice to
Your bread looks very nice to me. I bet there is not a baker around who wouldn’t like more rise, spring, and/or bloom. The BF did go long for 27C (80.6F). It is bery common for the dough to take off towards the end of the ferment.My best guess is that your starter should be maintained in o... |
Tip - Lactic vs Acetic Smell Test
There is a tremendous interest in sourdough, largely in part due to the distinct flavors produced by Lactic and Acetic acids. There are a number of current descriptions attempting to describe each flavor and/or smell. Example; Acetic = vinegar, Lactic = yogurt. I often use Acetic = sha... | I wonder, Danny ...
Whether a single feeding is enough to create dramatic differences.Along with most others here, I have long advocated easy, one step conversion between liquid and firm starters, according to the recipe used and acid balance desired. The problem is, I have been disappointed more often than not. The br... |
(old) Starter lost its mojo
Hello. I have been keeping a starter for about a few months now. Since I was unsure whether it was active enough, I asked a friend for a bit of hers, which is over 2 years old, which turned out to be way more active than mine. I've been feeding it 1:2:3 and it would rise more than twice as f... | Ask your friend how she does
Ask your friend how she does it. Especially if she lives near you, because her conditions may be similar to yours. |
Care and Feeding of Sourdough Starter
HiI have begun a sourdough starter, recipe here , but have a few questions about feeding. Question is: Do I repeat this day 4 feeding for several weeks, using a 1/4 cup of flour each day for the next two or three weeks? "Once your wild yeast is growing, the character and flavor wil... | Re: sourdough care and feeding
Hi Jim,Once you get to the point where the starter is actively bubbling, switch to water and unbleached flour (unless you are wanting a WW or rye starter). Then continue to feed once or twice daily for a week or two longer before refrigerating. How often to feed is up to you, but if you s... |
Successfully got brewers yeast to ferment flour
This probably isn't anything mind blowing, but it was a fun experiment. I brew a lot of beer and had some extra WLP001 (chico) yeast slurry that I wasn't going to use and wanted to see if I could get it to start fermenting bread flour.I took 3/4 cup of yeast slurry and a... | Pretty cool
In times past using barm from fermenting ale was the most common way to make bread. Propagating a starter as we do today was actually the less common way of doing things... depending of course on the region, time period, etc... but in my experience I've seen more references to barm than to dough from the p... |
Advice Before Pain De Campagne Attempt - FWSY
Hello all,Tomorrow I'm going to be attempting Pain De Campagne from FWSY (Forkish). I've searched through the forum looking at previous posts and generally found the following advice,1. His timings are very overestimated/generous so I need to watch the dough carefully.2. Th... | FWSY Pain de Campagne questions
Hi, lofi.It sounds like you have a good plan. Just keep an eye on the dough. The clock is not your friend when it comes to fermentation, especially if you skip the instant yeast which is okay. It does change the fermentation timing and makes it more temperature dependent. It also seems t... |
Sourdough with Sour Whey and Vinegar
Is anyone familiar with a formula developed by the USDA in which sourdough bread is made with sour whey (lactic acid) and vinegar (acetic acid)?I imagine a conventional yeasted loaf is made and the acids, obtained from the whey and vinegar, are then added.https://www.ars.usda.gov/of... | If this is such a great idea,
If this is such a great idea, why have its results remained consistently poor? I don't notice the good characteristics you described at all in the fake sourdough products. Yes it's sour. I can squeeze a lemon over my bread, dip it in vinegar, whatever, and make it taste sour - that's trivi... |
What is a seed starter?
I see this term but can't easily find it's meaning. It seems to mean some way of getting a starter going, like you have some starter already and then make another starter from it.I saw this passage in a book: "Starters inoculated with a larger seed amount rise faster than starters with a smaller... | Seed starter
Seed starter is an existing mature (ripe) starter that requires feeding. So, when you feed it, the existing starter is the seed and the feed is the freshly mixed dough that you add to it. The microbes will grow and multiply in the fresh dough as if from seeds, hence the term.It also comes from the need to ... |
Bread went flat in clay dutch oven
I just baked 2 loaves in my new breadtopia dutch ovens.One of them is mainly sprouted Spelt with flax and the other 50% stoneground flour and olives.(Since it happened to both I don't think it's the mass, but I'll be happy to elaborate if needed)My process:Mix 25gr 100% starter (very... | I don't think the vessel
I don't think the vessel caused your problem. The bread appears to be over proofed.Boy! The seeded crust is beautiful.Danny |
SFSD and Galal Question
How many times I’ve read and studied the Galal article I couldn’t say. Each time I struggle to learn more. When reading the paper this evening a question jumped out.I believe this article is scientfic and when it details the PH and TTA at given times during fermentation I assume they are scienti... | @ Danny
I would assume the article's authors tested the sponge, final dough and baked bread in the bakery, not in their lab. Did you miss the far right column? That presumably pertains to the baked bread.As far as the basic question goes, I can only join you in wonderment and skepticism. One possibility is that the mic... |
Sourdough rookie needs more lift!
Hey all,I'm a relative newcomer to sourdough (first attempt was probably a month ago). I've made probably 5 batches yielding 2 loaves each. The first 4 were either the Overnight Country Blonde or Brown from FWSY. The last one that I made yesterday was made using this recipe for Tartine... | Under fermented
You're either jumping the gun with the levain build or at the bulk ferment stage. Or your starter is not firing on all cylinders. |
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