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Tried New Flour, Got New Problems. Questions for the forum I apologize if this is a bit wordy...Costco had an unbelievable deal on CENTRAL MILLING AP flour, so I took the bait. I did notice after getting home that the new flour was only 10.5 percent protein compared to the 11.7 of KA AP White that I normally use.Using ...	Subject to the experts, which Subject to the experts, which I am notOBSERVATION: After mixing the dough (flour, salt, starter, and water) the dough seemed a tiny bit wetter than normal. I took no steps in correcting this (did not add a little more flour).I wonder how well the new flour was absorbing the moisture? I c...
My first pair of bricks: dense sourdough loaves. Hi, all. complete newbie here. Trying to demistify the bread making process (rocket science looks easy by comparison).So starter has been going steady for about 15 days (100% hydration, 50% rye, 50% AP) and showed signs of being strong enough for a first bake. There we ...	Hmmm... That big hole/tunnel in your loaf makes me think your starter might not be strong enough. You also said your dough rose but it wasn't as bubbly as the pictures, that might also point to a weak starter. Do you have pictures of what your dough looked like at the end of your bulk fermentation. How to you maintain ...
Starter bubbles and rises but doesn't fall even after 24 hours Hi,Newbie here, need a little help with a starter I started on 22nd dec. I just mixed in 5g of wwf and 5g of water and continued refreshing every 24 hours. After going through all stages described by Debra Wink, around the 9th day, I found a lot of bubbling...	Welcome! Nice to have you on board and Happy New Year. A really active starter is a nice problem to have. Two questions though...1. How much fresh flour to starter are you feeding? 2. If you take a teaspoon of your active starter, once peaked, and carefully drop it into a glass of water does it float? Discards can be a...
Lievito Madre for Panettone I made a starter from scratch this past summer specifically to use for making panettone. Following directions for refreshment, temperature and hydration I'm unable to get the starter to rise 3 fold in 4 hours. It doesn't even double in that time. I've tried to build this for 3 days to see if...	extra http://www.dissapore.com/ricette/lievito-madre-di-iginio-massari/..In addition to our exchange...
Honey Oat Sourdough Slow Rise if I mix a normal sourdough and a honey oat side by side the honey oat takes about 30% longer to rise. Anyone know why? Fyi I do a 65% hydration 2% salt and 1:3 ratio starter to flour. I usually add 50 grams of honey per 500 gram loaf. Then I'll top it with oats.	No idea but the first time I did a Honey Oat loaf it took forever! It was about 7 hours for the bulk fermentation. I have since found that keeping the dough in a place that is about 82F speeds it up immensely.
High hydration dough breaking during final shape?!?!?! Hi Everyone I have been making some high hydration boule loafs at 87% hydration. Every time so far during the final shaping stage I have torn my loafs when shaping them into boules! The dough is of course sticky and wet. It sticks pretty badly to the surface of my ...	Read SteveB's entry & watch the video. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49534/80-hydration-pain-au-levain .But his is "only" 80% hydration dough here. Yours is well into in the category of ciabatta dough which should be handled with kid gloves ultra-carefully.
Questions for my starter I make a sourdough/starter 28 days ago. Hydration 140% rye flour ( wholemeal )My question: starter feed once a day and store at 28°C ( proof box ) 1:0.5 : 0,7 only doubles the volume, idem if i feed 1:1:1,4I Know stiff sourdough ( hydration 50% ) and it tripling the volume in 4 hours at 26/28°C...	hmmm I think your starter might not be doubling when it's fed 1:0.5:1.4 because its too liquid. It can't hold itself up. The feed with more flour makes the starter thicker so it can rise easier. I'm sure someone else can give you a more technical explanation.
Rye bread 60% Rye bread 60% and 40% all-purpose flour. Idratation 80% rye sourdough ( idro 140% )Rye flour 250 gAll-purpose flour 250 gRye sourdough 420 gWater 80%Salt 2%Bulk fermentation 45 minutes final proof 3 hoursIt was a long time since I make rye bread, very good and quite light crumb. Gaetano	Wow, great loaf! It looks yummy outside and especially inside, like the texture of the crumb. The crust must also be great!well done Gaetano and happy baking and happy new year!Joze
salt rising bread I've been trying to achieve a salt rising bread without success. Those Appalachain settlers were pretty clever, it would appear. My corn meal/milk/sugar starter mixture never starts to crank, even when kept at 45C for a day. I've tried this three times, and have been disappointed three times. So what'...	It's actually a very very hard bread to make. Search "salt rising bread" on this forum and you'll get many "hits" like this one:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21988/salt-rising-bread-starterGood luckhester
Borodinsky Bread Thank you Ananda for this recipe and guidance. Delicious loaf which I can enjoy over the holidays.Ananda's blog with recipe http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27107/borodinsky-using-auerman-process	This is one of the freat breads to master One of my favorites for sure. A fine expample you have there. Well done and happy baking for the Holidays Abe
Help with Overproofing Hi, I have a hard time understanding overproofing:1. Does this term refer to the the bulk fermentation process or to the proofing process? In other words, am I at risk of overproofing if I leave for BF to long or if I leave the dough to proof for too long?2. Secondly, the finger-poke test - is th...	strictly speaking There is a difference between over fermentation and over proofing. If it is over fermented it's always over proofed. But over proofed doesn't necessarily mean over fermented.If you have over proofed after final shaping but it's not over fermented then shape and proof again. However once it's over ferm...
Spelt Flour Sourdough Starter I have been trying to make spelt sourdough and my starter just doesn't grow and I don't know what to do and am about to give up, but spelt sourdough is the one bread I can have on a low FODMAP diet. I measure my ingredients, but it just doesn't grow and I will never have enough to make a ...	Hi LaceyLou! Have you been Hi LaceyLou! Have you been able to grow and maintain any other starter before or is this your first attempt? Was your daughter's starter a different kind? As an aside, I've read that many people that are on a FODMAP diet can tolerate most kinds of sourdough breads because this process mak...
Lievito Madre for Panettone I made a starter from scratch this past summer specifically to use for making panettone. Following directions for refreshment, temperature and hydration I'm unable to get the starter to rise 3 fold in 4 hours. It doesn't even double in that time. I've tried to build this for 3 days to see if...	sorry for the double post. sorry for the double post.
Rye not fermenting like I thought? I bake the tartine bread. I have had a starter for 7 years now. It's flour is Half Whole wheat and half All Purpose. I recently wanted to try to get more fermentation from it so I started adding some Rye to its food (about 11%).I am NOT noticing any more/faster fermentation?? I am...	Yes and no It is true that rye flour can stimulate more fermentation activity, but that does not always translate to faster or more noticeable rising. Rye also has the effect of weighing down a dough, so to speak, preventing it from rising like a normal wheat dough. Rye does not possess the gluten quality that wheat do...
Yummy banana-nuts loaf Hi all,I just made this deliciouse banana-nuts loaf. Here is the recipe.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/sourdoughbananabreadI used toasted pecans instead of walnuts and orange zest instead of orange rind. And instead of using 1/3 cups of shortening, I devided this amount 50/50 between butter ...	it looks incredible Yummy! I really like the bits of purple in the crumb from the nuts.Great bake
The annoying problem with my tartine bread ! This is my first post and I felt it necessary to write because I couldn't really find an answer elsewhere so I am begging those of you who are more knowledgeable than I for some help because I cannot bear to make another failure of a loaf. Namely, a flat pancake with some bi...	Immature levain A drop in temperature, didn't pass the float test and big gaping holes all point to an immature levain.
More starter or more BF time? Hello,I am baking sourdough sometime now and what I usually do is little starter, 10-12 hours BF, cold proof and bake, since I don't have time during the week. When I have time in the weekend, I try more starter and less BF times.Since I always change the type of flour I use (and hydration...	Try a 20% Sponge and see I use the Sponge & Dough method - 20% sponge overnight on the worktop mixed in the morning with the rest of the ingredients. Autolyse 1hr, BF 2 hr and prove to 85%. The whole process takes about 18 hr and the results are consistently good.
Sharing my experience with making a Starter The problem with starter "recipes" is there aren't any. Or the very concept of a recipe is flawed at least. Recipes give exact amounts, times and what to expect at any given time. Starters are living things with so many variables that this is an almost impossibility. All too ...	Thank you for this. It's so helpful reading and re-reading this stuff, especially because you are a starter guru. It's so helpful. Bookmarking this page. Thankshester
Problems building a starter Hi guys,I'm having a lot of trouble building a sourdough starter and I don't know what to do anymore.I've tried I think 15-20 times with several recipes (like Hamelman's or Chad Robertson's), with different kind of flour and water (even bottled water!), honey, fresh fruit, different temperat...	several very good posts here do a search for "Pineapple juice solution" by Debra Winks or "No Muss No Fuss" by Dabrownmaneither of these will get you on the way. You need to stick with it past the stage you got to using information in the posts and you will succeed. the forum will help as you go.good luck!
Still bad loaves Getting pretty discouraged.Used 1 2 3 method, again, Dough was nice. Bulk ferment went well. Shape and final rise went well. Starter, bubbly and very active. Both rises saw excellent rise in dough. Although, dough remains "puddly" and very sticky. So sticky that it actually annoys the heck out of me t...	Adjust your recipe Keep the 1:2:3 as your template but drop the hydration to 65%.So start off with your 1:2:3 then make adjustments. 150g starter @ 100% hydration300g water450g bread flour Now if your starter is 100% hydration then the dough will always end up 71% hydration in a 123 recipe.Total flour = 525gTotal water...
Hamelman's 40% rye Hi everyone, this is my first post and am hoping to spend a lot of time on this forum.Anyway, I baked a 40% Rye sourdough from Hamelman's 'Bread', and for the life of me I can't figure out what is wrong with what I am doing. Of course, it's a very wet and sticky dough at the start, but through the st...	What of your starter? It could be your starter was weak? How did you prep the starter for the bread?
basic sourdough run of lousy bread? Hi:Historically I've had success with sourdough, using my own yeast, and basic recipes of 65-75% hydration levels - hydration depends on how patient I am in weighing out the ingredients. Usual method involves 30-60 minute autolyse, 2% salt with slap-n-fold until smoothed dough, bulk...	Tough One I've read this one a few time and am still perplexed. Any chance your scale might be on the fritz? Is there any chance something has changed in your water? Decent oven spring is indicative of gas production in the ferment but the slackness of the dough points me towards poor gluten development or a greater hy...
Once again, what size Dutch oven for my sourdough? This question must have been asked a great number of times as I've seen by searching the Forum, but please allow me to ask it once more.I usually bake batards of up to 500g (18oz) flour. What size DO would be suitable? I read that the space inside a DO is important to...	The challenger cast iron The challenger cast iron vessel seems to be very popular in the "elite" sourdough baking community. Not sure if anyone needs this expensive pan but it is certainly a great option to have. I have tried baking with cast iron and enameled steel pans (Graniteware?), and I seem to like a steel pan b...
Calculating dough percent hydration using variably hydrated starters When doing starter builds, I've taken a liking to building the starter based on percent hydration, yet not always keeping track of just how much flour (or water) is in a given sample. I often use the baker's percentage function on my scale.I started s...	Exactly right, Tyler Different people may come at it from different angles, but they all arrive at the same place you did. Paul
Sourdhough for digestion. I understand the starter is fermented flour and during the fermentation the carbs, proteins and fats(maybe?) have been already broken down and therefore the grain is more easily digestible and other nutrients have been added. But with sourdough bread you have the starter and the flour (plus o...	Not necessarily Normally, the starter (already fermented) is added to a mixture of water, salt, and unfermented flour, which will then undergo the fermentation process (bulk fermentation + proof). Bread dough is essentially a starter, since most of the nutrients are broken down during bulk and proof. Not EVERYTHING is ...
restoring dried starter Hello folks!A few weeks after my starters matured (maybe 6 months ago) I dried a bit on wax paper and then put it in an envelope (the envelope was not sealed and the dried starter was loose in the bottom (no baggie, etc). Saturday I figured I'd see whether it worked or not so I put some in a jar...	Dried Starter The best way to dry starter and save it for later use is to dry fresh active starter that has begun to bubble up after feeding. I dry starter on cling film over a tray. You can use just about any non reactive flat surface. I turn over the drying start after it is dry enough to be turned.You can grind t...
Tartine Failure Hi Fellow Bakers,I am turning to you for help after several attemts and failures to make the basic Tartine country sourdough. I have been getting better, but keep getting variations of the same failure: relatively little rise and the crust gets seperated from the bread itself (a picture will follow). Fi...	Slashing Do you slash the top before baking? It looks as if to much steam is trapped in the center of the bread.
Another sourdough bread. (Thank you Lechem for the Sourdouch bread recipe) I have used the Vermont Sourdough bread recipe by Jefferey Hamelman. Lechem gave me this great recipe and I owe him great thanks for the great improvement. You have given me such of gift or a newly risen bread. I am really glad to be part of thi...	I am still working on the I am still working on the Sourdough Starter. I may make a new one since I really didn't follow the 1:1 rule.
Raisin water fermenting? After seeing it discussed here on the boards, I decided to give raisin water a try. I've been keeping it for about three weeks now and it seemed fairly healthy. But when I took it out today to refresh it, I think it has started to ferment. I shook it up and it nearly blew the lid off of my maso...	I haven't made or used raisin water but given that you want to use it to raise (leaven) dough it sounds as if you are on the right track.hopefully other Raisin water experts will chip in and set us both right, it is on my to do list (along with a few other things :))Leslie
Sticky dough --- again! Hi, I have a problem again with my dough being too sticky.I used 200g bread flour, 200g whole wheat, 200g semolina. I added 420g water (70%) and 8% starter. Autolyses for 40 minutes and then 4 S&F with 30-40 minutes rest. The gluten seems to have been developed nicely and dough is very extensibl...	Seems like a good recipe on paper (or screen) For 100% durum flour I wouldn't autolyse nor bulk ferment for too long as it degrades quickly and ferments faster than normal wheat. I wouldn't have thought that 1/3rd durum semolina + 2/3rds normal wheat flour would give you problems but it could be a factor.Other then tha...
Difference between sourdough and biga made pitas - how come? I'm baking Multigrain Pitas every week, for many years. Adapted from Peter Reinhart's original recipe ("Whole Grain Breads"), I reduced the amount of instant yeast by half (from 8 grams to 4).Recently, I changed the formula, now using the same amount of start...	The same thing is true with pizza dough. SD pizza dough feels more wet than a poolish one even though they both ahve the same amount of water. It is also more extensible and easier to stretch as a result too.
building a rye levain from an ap starter I'm planning a dough that requires 2 levains today: 1 125% hydration AP levain and the other 83% rye. The rye build calls for:Whole Rye Flour 100%water 83%mature culture 5%I used mature 125% AP starter to seed this rye levain. Can you build a rye levain in a single feeding off...	Perfectly fine It depends on how much of a purist you are but it's only 5% and will be perfectly okay.
My 100% Rye bread Hi all,Here is my first rye sourdough bread! It's 100% rye.I fully enjoy this flavorful bread! It has moist and soft crumb and delicious crust.Here is the link for the recipe.https://zebbakes.com/2011/05/25/100-rye-bread/I made one loaf, so I used half the quantities in the recipe.I will also use it t...	Wow That is one fine looking rye loaf. 100% whole rye to-boot. Looks delicious and it's going to make great Kvass. Bon Appetit
My loaves are good but not great - where can I improve? Hello all, just found your site and have been reading - I think I've found my people!My loaves are good, but I would really like to push onto the next level, so they are outstanding! I think that comes in part from flavour of the loaf and improving my crust.Been b...	What needs improvement? What needs improvement? Flavor, crumb, rise, tartness. Pictures would also be helpful.Your salt "might" be a little on the low side. I will leave that up to the experts.
Sourdough bread (dense, no lift, doughy, flat) Howdy Everyone! I baked Sourdough a few times and I am still practicing :)I am using this recipe.- 3 Cups All Purpose Organic Flour- 2 cups of Sourdough Starter (made of All Purpose Organic Flour)- 1 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt- 1 Cup of Water My technique:- Mix (Flour and W...	Did you do a bulk ferment after your air kneading and before your final proof? Half an hour would not be enough for anything I make with sourdough.A bit more detail of recipe would also help analyse what is happening.There is a lot to learn with sourdough and younare off to a good start.Leslie
Blown Loaf! My loaf blew out—can anyone offer an explanation? Recipe below.I gave the loaf 3 diagonal slashes and placed it on a stone at 430°F/220°C with steam for 15 minutes. The blowout occurred somewhere during that 15 minutes.I then dropped the temp to 375°F/190°C, removed the steam pan, and continued baking.Could...	The crust set before it was The crust set before it was done expanding. The steam is the main reason, but it did spread along one of your slashes, so it isn't truly a blow out. If your slashing pattern were different, it would have spread differently. Another reason for the larger oven spring could be underproofing, bu...
Tartine bread experiment with different final proof times... edit didn't see the 'sourdough' top forum ..moving this to to right place :) https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP37Uri3sDoic-CbbG_1ef7C-FCnHz9XLtRoArDHyEODBn-kqssh11TXO7P2H2dAw?key=aXluMmhGZ0NCZnVweXlkV2xYa0o0bHVCRDdJWXFBLong story short, I've been bakin...	My fridge is cold My fridge is cold. In my warm fridge, I proof for about 9 hours. Why did you leave it out to final proof for 4 hours before refrigerating? Put it in straight away. You chose to start retarding fermentation at the point where the dough was already fermented ideally. What you have discovered is the...
Getting a higher rise bread? Hello!After getting a strong and consistent starter going (two feedings a day), I finally baked my bread. Overall, great outcome! Beautiful, crisp crust and delicious inside. My only wish is for the loaf to be higher. The first loaf had a center of about 4 inches, the second about 2-3 inche...	There are several factors that influence the final shape of your loaf.1.) Well developed gluten network will keep the shape of the loaf when you tip it out of proofing basket.2.) How stiff is your dough - too wet and will spread like a pancake and you can forget about the height of your loaf.3.) Preshape, bench rest an...
Possibly Bad Starter After my first bake, I put my starter in the fridge because I didn't expect to bake this week. Well, my loaf was finished in a day so I pulled the starter out and it smelled like acetone. After three days of feeding, it still smells just as strong as when first pulled out of the fridge. Is my star...	starter take 10 grams of starter and feed with 100g of flour and 100g of water. Should be fine.
Beginner sourdough - weak, wet dough? As I posted here, I'm a very early-stage convert to sourdough, just practicing with a very simple recipe to get a feel for the dough. Here's my recipe, adapted from James Morton400g strong white flour200g starter (100% hydration)275g water5g saltCombine, wait 30min, knead 10min.I'm...	High Hydration Dough Welcome to the world of high-hydration dough. Your recipe appears to be about 75% hydration and I can tell you that it takes some getting used to. My "go to" bread recipe is over 70% and my last loaf was 77% (my next loaf will be 80%).Here are some things I've learned:1. Use quality flour. I starte...
Save a loaf that stuck to the proofing bowl Hello!I've made a few naturally leavened loaves of bread before, and each time I have tried something different. This time, I followed this recipe from RootSimple:http://www.rootsimple.com/2007/03/sourdough-recipe-1-the-not-very-whole-wheat-loaf/I don't have a proper proofing...	Try this.. You won't be able to save the loaf if you try and peel the parchment away. I would bake it parchment side down. The paper will detach from the loaf as it cooks and your bread will come out fine. Try and give it a score before you place it in the oven. Either use a dutch oven if you have one to bake it in, or...
Growing a starter in Seattle-Easy, in Santa Fe-Impossible When I lived in Seattle growing a starter was no big deal. Since moving to Santa Fe, NM, it's been impossible. Some of the differences, that may or may not be relevant: 1. I went from sea level to 7300'2. I went from humid to unbelievably dry3. I now have (deli...	try a different water I'm on a well down here in Texas and had a similar problem. I switched to filtered water that I bought from the store in gallon jugs and my starter took off quite well. I use 50/50 AP/Whole Rye flour for feeding and stopped using pineapple juice after the fourth day. Also may want to consider twic...
First Bread and First Post Yesterday I baked my first loaf of bread. The recipe I used was a modified version of the "Beginner's Sourdough Bread" from The Perfect Loaf blog. Levain 40g starter (100% hydration)40g red whole wheat40g bread flour80g waterDough392g bread flour80g red whole wheat346g water9g fine sea salt20...	Looks nice! Well done for your first go at it. It looks like a reasonably formula for a sourdough. I didn't run all the numbers, but be aware that the hydration probably was a bit higher than you expected more because of the extra 100% hydration starter than because of the honey.You didn't really say how you mixed the ...
Collapsing or huge holes Hi there,I have been making sourdough for quite a while now and have had some spectacular results, but recently things just have not been working out and I cannot figure out why.I'm generally using the Tartine basic country loaf recipe which has worked great before.Starter: 200g 50:50 white:who...	You mention about using 5-20% starter ...and your bulk ferment varies from 2-4 hours. Well firstly 5-10% starter does not fit into this timescale at all. 20% at 4 hours can be done but even so it might not always be the case. If your starter is strong enough and the conditions good enough then that should be fine for 2...
Flour for sourdough maintenance Hello everyone, I'm currently living in the UK and I'm looking for a decent flour to use to feed my sourdough starter. Have you got any suggestions?	What did you make it with? What did you make it with? That's what you generally feed it with. Mine is a bread flour (strong flour) starter so that's what I feed it. If it seems sluggish I'll put in a small bit of rye or whole wheat in a feeding to give it a boost. My flour also has malted barley flour added to it so I ...
Insulated food containers (e.g. hydroflask) for starter? I live in a big old cold house. We also have a wood stove in the living room. I have trouble keeping my starter robust during the winter. It will thrive during the day while the fire is going but then drop off overnight when the fire goes out. (we keep the thermo...	Try to find a warm spot for your starter at night, like the top of the refrigerator, or in a cardboard box with a small light bulb? We have an above-the-stove microwave with a stove surface light in the bottom. With the light on low the microwave is perfect for starter on a cold night. Our house goes down to the low...
When should I begin to build starter for weekend bake? Some how I've managed to renew a year old SD starter left in the refrigerator. After a TFL search I would like to tip my hat to you experienced SD bakers whom like to share. I had success with MiniOven's suggestion to pour off the hootch, move the top layer over an...	One option Make a preferment Saturday night to be ready for Sunday morning? It all depends on your schedule and how long you wish to make the bread. Quick? Slow? Retard in the fridge? Etc...
Reaching new hights! Hi all, My latest bake really put a big smile on my face and a deliciouse bite of the sourdough into my tummy! Lol This is this perfect loaf I have been aiming for! From its crust to its crumb, from its look to its taste - it is what I wanted my sourdough loaf to be! My recipe:Stellar loaf Dough ...	well done!!! You've come so far in such a short time :)Your loaf looks great!!Ru
Wrong percentages of starter, can it be saved? Hi I just realized a mistake I made and would like to know if and how I can save it.I mixed 600g flour(350g whole wheat, rest bread flour), 420g water (70%) and instead of putting 15% starter, I put 15g. That's around 2.5% starter. I didn't realized it then.So after some S...	Wait 1. You can either take it out of the fridge and place in an oiled bowl to carry on bulk fermenting. Once doubled in size then reshape and final proof again. 1% starter at room temperature will take about 24 hours for a bulk ferment. 2% with refrigeration and half bulk fermented I'm not sure. You'll just have to go...
Vollkornbrot--first attempt I made Jeffrey Hamelman's Vollkornbrot with Flax Seeds (Bread, 2nd edition, p. 241) for the first time yesterday. Since I don't have a pullman loaf pan, I scaled the recipe down to 60% and made it in a disposable 3-lb loaf pan.It came out looking like this (cut after 25 hrs):It had a nice mo...	Nice loaf There should be a little rise b/f you put it in the oven and no oven spring, really. Nice job!hester
Never give up, eh? I've taken some starter (90% AP and 10% ww) from the refrigerator, weighed it, added 1/2 as much flour and 1/4 as much water. I'm aiming for a little drier dough. It's covered and in the closed pantry.I've done the same with einkorn starter. Let's see what happens this time. I'm willing to keep at th...	123 method Why don't you try the 123 method with bread flour and 20% whole wheat? Leave the rye and einkorn for some other time. Rye and Einkorn are very different to normal wheat. If you really wish to use rye then 123 method with 10-20% rye will be fine but for now don't experiment beyond that. What is your plan of a...
identifying when dough is 'ready' I've recently made a couple of my first sourdough Boules a la Ken Forkish's book (the country blonde recipe).The flavor is good, but they seem a bit more dense and flat than I expected.I have also noticed that large bubbles have formed during both bulk fermentation and proofing. So my ...	Difficult to answer as a lot of this comes down to experience. After baking sourdough for a few years now I don't have a 100% fool proof method. I've recently begun to go more by feel then by visual but a visual guide is good when one hasn't got anything else to go by. Practice often enough helps getting a feel for it....
Sourdough Starter Hey guys! So I just got some sourdough starter from a place I work ( one of the other locations) and I was wondering how do I go about figuring out the "schedule" to feed it. I fed it a 1:1:1 ratio, but was told after they usually do 2:1:1, the first part being the starter. It seems to being doing pre...	Keep it in the fridge and feed it when you want to use it.If this is used in a big bakery then thy may well be keeping it going out of the fridge because they're using it daily (and using lots of it). I use mine 5 days week and it still goes in the fridge after use.-Gordon
Giant holes in crumb—I'm confused. This crumb situation has happened to me on several loaves, using Hamelman's Vermont SDo recipe. Based on other posts on these forums, I first thought I was underproofing. Then, based on some other posts, I thought I was not handling the bulk fermentation properly. I'm using a mature l...	When that happens to me the first thing I think about is how I shaped the dough. It is not uncommon for my own loaves to show those same holes when I do not degas the dough enough in the shaping process. Yes, you need to handle the dough "somewhat" gently, but you also must make sure you get rid of all the really lar...
123 method with Rye I've mixed a dough following the 123 method. The flour is organic rye, and organic AP. 180 grams of rye and 230 grams of AP. The were equal in the beginning but the dough was unworkably sticky so I added 50 more grams of AP. That effectively exceeded the calculations for the 123 method, but I didn't...	I'm rather new to this whole I'm rather new to this whole thing but in my experiments as I wound up working my way up to 100% rye I saw many changes in the dough. It is strange flour and by the time you're at 100% you don't try to handle it as much as scoop it. I think what you're doing is fine but you'll just have to ...
Flat bread Hi,I was experimenting yesterday and had a disappointing result. I would like to understand why.My receipt was:300g flour, 216 water (72% hydration), 4.5g salt (1.5%) and 15g starter (5%) with 100% hydration.I used 60% bread flour and 40% whole wheat. I did an autolysis for an hour then kneed for 5 minutes. ...	Overproofed! My guess would be that you have overproofed it and that is the reason why it just flattened when you tipped it from the banneton. You total time was roughly about 24 hours at room temp what was way too long. With 40% of whole wheat flour the BF was much faster than only with white flour so according to my ...
6 Stinkers in a Row Going through the book by Ken Forkish. Good success so for. I am doing pretty well with Pain de Campagne and Pain au Bacon. Dropped 6 stinkers in a row with Overnight Country Blond. Dough is just a blob on the table. No structure at all. Levain culture is highly active. I am now folding much more v...	Overfermented You are another victim of the time frames included in Forkish's otherwise superb book.If you do a search on this site, you will find that many persons (myself included) have suffered from watching the clock and not the dough. In fact, one of his overnight recipes was my first complete failure.The bulk fe...
I keep killing starters :( Heya, as the subject says: I am a sourdough-starter killer. And I have no idea why.I kept my own starter for over a year, and have no idea why I couldn't revive it from my fridge one day. After getting a starter from a local bakery, I fed it one day and it was dead the next (read no yeast sme...	Are you over or under feeding it? Starters are pretty hard to kill but if you are over feeding it, the yeast doesn't have a chance to multiply before you dilute it again with another feeding. Only feed it once it has risen and started to shrink. As well feed it equal amounts of water and flour by weight. So this would ...
Starter Cleaning (Jar and Top Hard Layer) Hello!Quick questions about maintaining and cleaning of a starter once it's rockin and rollin. My jar always gets the mixed and risen dough marks on the side. I try to clean up those sides whenever I add in my water, but sometimes the dough is hardened at that point. I'd love t...	are you covering the jar to prevent the starter from drying out? One of my favourite covers is half a sandwich size bag and a rubber band...tight enough to hold on the plastic yet loose enough to let gas pass underneath the band. I also keep two jars, one clean in the cupboard at all times and transfer the just fed s...
Percent Levain in Dough Another clarification is needed. When someone states for example "40% levain", does that mean:40% of the final dough's weight?40% of the added flour's weight (excluding the flour contained in the levain)??	I have seen it referred to I have seen it referred to both ways, so it can be a bit confusing. Generally in recipes it seems like people refer to it as a part of percentage of the total dough weight, but on this very interesting thread at pizzamaking.com: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.0 they ...
2nd loaf, better than the first But still have a long way to go. Did follow a recipe from start to finish as recommended here. I think it was underbaked after all was said and done. The crust is soft (my wife likes that ) and the crumb is VERY stretchy with extremely moist texture. Nice holes though, and good taste.So!...	try setting the pizza stone lower in the oven and the DO on the rack above it. the only time I have ever burnt the bottom was when my DO sat on the stone! good luck with the next bake!Leslie
Eric Kayser Starter Hi from Stonehenge in the UKJust joined up as the breadmaking is becoming serious. Well you know what I mean. I bought the Larousse book of Bread at the weekend and decided I would make the starter. Followed the instructions but after day 1 the starter has developed a crust but it is moist underneat...	Welcome Hi from London.Welcome on board.By any chance are you using filtered water? I found a glass jar or a Tupperware container with a screw tap loosely fitted worked best for a 100% hydration starter when I was making mine.
Panettone vecchia Milano I love this recipe :-)Easy and great taste.For the recipe http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49485/panettone-vecchia-milano-gmontanari Buon panettone a tutti :-)	beautiful work Wow, that is a beautiful loaf. I see where you hung it upside down, do you feel this is necessary? I only ask because I have read yes and no.
looking for a more sour SD recipe Hello folks!While I understand there are ways to make SD more sour (lower hydration starter, extended bulk or proof, others?) I'm looking for a more sour SD recipe. Today I tried the Norwich More SD and while it is quite delicious, it doesn't quite hit the sour I'm looking for. Any bas...	Try this... MORE TANGhttp://brodandtaylor.com/make-sourdough-more-or-less-sour-part-2/ STEP ONE: Starter Build10g starter25g water40g unbleached white flour10g whole ryeForm the dough, place in container and leave to mature. Use about an hour after it has peaked. Ok to leave overnight for this first build, about 12 hou...
Panettone Vecchia Milano G.Montanari Panettone Montanari.RecipeFirst doughWeat flour 300 gSugar 75 gButter 60 gWater 150 gSourdough ( water 45% ) 80 gYolks 54 gMust triplingSecond doughWeat flour 60 gYolks 54 gSugar 38 gHoney 10 gSalt 3 gButter 36 gInertRaisins 210 gCandied orange 60 gCandied citron 30 gI have elimina...	My goodness. It is getting to panettone time again! My favorite time of year and yours looks very boldly baked. Don't see that much with enriched cake like breads. Time to start getting ready...Well done and happy baking
Chestnut and Raisin Sourdough My adaptation of a Pumpkin and Sour Cherry Sourdough. Had some chestnut puree to use up and thought it'd go really well with raisins. Soaked the raisins and used the raisin water in the recipe. Flours were bread flour, whole-wheat and whole rye. It also has a touch of honey. My starter bui...	Looks yummy! Love the blisters on the crust. Hope the crumb is all what you hope for.
Starter or Leaven. It is confusing The more I read and research I find no one method of establishing your yeast component to be regarded as the right and only way to go. It confuses me as to what is the correct path to follow. It would best to give you an example of what I mean.Chad Robertson book Tartine uses Tablesp...	No difference Chad tells you how to prep your starter (or make a leaven which will be the starter in the recipe).Hobbs House Bakery just tells you to use 300g Active Starter (i.e. fed and prepped).They're both doing the same thing. The difference between a six and 2 threes.No difference between feeding your starter and...
Sourdough still too dense, crumb too crumbly? Hi everyone,I've been baking sourdough for a few years now but have not yet achieved the ideal crumb. They have mostly been too dense :( Can anyone help me troubleshoot my dense crumb? When my partner and I eat the sourdough, the crumb is not as "stretchy" as other sourdoug...	It seems like I am seeing a It seems like I am seeing a lot of crumb evaluation requests lately, surprisingly, our crumb experts have not chimed in on this one :). I would be pleased if I got a crumb like that with my baguettes. Very nice!
Sourdough starter question for Sourdough lady, my first attempt Hi: I am using the recipe from sourdough lady. On day 4 I disgarded all but 1/4 cup and added white flour and water. The next day it is bubbling and happy. Today is day 5 and I did the same thing. Hopefully it will bubble again. My question is: Do I d...	First Use of Sourdough First, you should observe how fast your starter doubles in size after a refreshment. If it's vigorous and doubling in four to five hours, chances are that you can use your new starter. There probably won't be a lot of tang or sour to the flavor of your breads at this point but you will have esta...
Correlation between bulk fermantation time and proofing? Hello there,I have calculated my times according to my schedule. So I use 10-15% starter, kneed in the afternoon and bulk ferment over night (around 19-20oC in my kitchen). In the morning I shape and put my dough in bannetons. My point is to bake after 8-9 hours ...	It depends How much starter % has been used.How far you've taken the bulk ferment.etc.What you're doing now sounds like a good schedule. Retarding after BF with 10-15% starter overnight should give you a good 8-12 hours in the fridge for Final Proofing. 15-16 is not completely out of the ballpark though so you'd have t...
Historical starters Everywhere I looked for help on making my first starter I'd find anecdotes of starters that were hundreds of years old, or which where smuggled out of Nazi Germany. There's also the mythology of San Francisco starter. But I was wondering. If the woman next door to me has starter handed down to he...	Starters are never more than a few hours old Starters a never older than the yeasts that live inside them. The lifespan of yeast is just a few hours. It replicates then dies. The flour and water is just the carrier. Make a starter in one country with one type of flour and water then taking it to a different country and...
Chad Robertson's starter/dough colour So I’ve been baking for a few months now and thought it’s time to join the forum. Its been a great source of help so far.At the moment I’m trying to nail Chad Robertson’s Country Loaf before moving on to more adventurous things but I had one question. Chad says to use 50/50 bread a...	I don't think it's the whole wheat It could be the bread flour. Our UK bread flour is not as white as American bread flour. It's more off-white.But Chad's starter being 50:50 should still show signs of having wholegrain. Your starter isn't confusing. Chad's is.
is temp related directly to how often to feed? Refrigerate or not Hi,I'm new to the forum and to sourdough. I'm in the process of activating a dry culture. I have done so using a home made proofing box. I am now at the stage where I need to decide how to store it and schedule feedings. The common approach for someone b...	case of exteme "It just seems like if it takes 3 days to get a refrigerated starter up and ready for baking,…"This is an extreme case and I'm worried already about a starter that takes 3 days to be ready.We don't know how the starter is maintained but my refrigerated starter works well. It takes just an overnight inoc...
Talk to me about water, please? I've read (and read, and read, and read) any number of things about the quality of the water used in the starter and in the bread itself.Do NOT use tap water if it has chlorine. Is this true? I read that you can use it, if you leave it overnight on the counter to dissipate. Use filtered ...	Sounds about right I'm reading far too much, it seems. So many things seem to contradict one another...Reason is because everyone has a different experience. Some find tap water is fine and others don't. Some find that filtered water works and others find it doesn't. Depends on the filter.I find tap water that has been...
Need a help with starter hey guys, glad I found this forum, plenty of good info.maybe someone can help me, I made starter like this before and it worked like charm after 6-7 days.now I tried it again and it wont work for me... so I used 25g of (strong) bread flour & 25g of wholegrain flour & 50g water.i fed it for abou...	What is the starter feeding ratio? How much fresh flour to starter?Welcome! Let's see if we can come up with any ideas. Nice to have you on board.
Slack dough This is the bread that was overproofed! Will try again next weekend!	Not bad actually. Especially if this is your first loaf. The crust looks good and I've done worse with the crumb.
Slack dough for sourdough bread Hi,So I baked some sourdough this weekend with my starter. The dough was very slack and did not really hold its shape during bulk fermantation and got kind of out of control. I did a shorter rise on the kichen counter. The bread turned out pretty good, although it just didn't taste very ...	Is the photo of your loaf in a banneton? What recipe did you follow? Taste can be toggled so keep working at it! Enjoy your first loaf.
Cooler Kitchen Temp w/ Starter (Inactive Starter) Hello!I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestion for a starter in a cooler temperature kitchen? Our kitchen stays at about lower-mid 60's and with winter coming in the northeast, it's not going to warm up anytime soon. My young starter has been very slow in regards to a...	Warm warm warm Getting your little buddy into a nice warm sweater would be ideal, but starters are notoriously fussy about being dressed. So warming them up in the winter proves to be something of a challenge.Using warm water will help to give a good boost at the outset to a languishing starter. If the starter is downr...
Fridge Temp for Starter I bake about once a week; maybe twice but I usually have discard for the pizza dough. I would like to be able to feed my starter once a week rather than daily and for sure not twice a day.Hamelman in "Bread" quotes Calvel who says that if you store starter in the fridge for weekly feedings the...	37F should not be a problem 37F should not be a problem for the starter. Just let it grow after feeding and place in the fridge. Feed again in a week.However you might want to make sure your new starter is sufficiently strong and robust before refrigerating, putting a very young starter in the fridge might perturb it t...
Smoked paprika Is there a guideline as to how much percentage wise I can use to add this or any other dry spice...to a bread dough?	Some things to consider 1. Will the herb or spice interfere with the yeast?2. How much of it can you add before it compromises the gluten structure?3. According to taste!I'm not aware of any spices or herbs that will interfere with the yeast but it is something to think about. The usual amount for salt is 1.8% - 2% usi...
Things I have learned about sourdough Make sure you use a scale!	Agreed Weighing makes perfect sense. Why make life more difficult?
Beginner questions on how to maintain and use starter I got it my rye starter going (fed 1x/day using rye flour and pineapple juice until doubled in size between feedings, very bubbly, and floated in warm water), but now I'm not sure what to do. I put it in the fridge and plan to feed 2x/week with water:flour 1:1 (I wi...	I think you have refrigerated it too early Take it out of the fridge and carry on your feedings with water this time. The pineapple juice is just to nudge it in the right direction. You want some water feedings now. Once you have converted your starter to flour and water, it's strong enough to double within a few hours...
Oops! I made 200% Hydration Starter In a fit of distraction i put 2x as much water as flour in when I fed my starter this morning. I was planning on baking with it in the afternoon. A few questions for the experts among us:1. should I just bake with it and see what happens, reducing the water in the final mix to compe...	My pennies worth 1. Yes. But watch the dough and not the clock with the rest of the recipe. Did you make the correct amount but just overhydrated or did you make too much by adding in extra water. You may use this overly hydrated starter but make sure you use the correct amount.2. This would work but not necessary. If ...
Sticky dough. Why? Hello,I face a problem with my dough being too sticky when handling for proofing. My receipt is as follows:flour: 400g (80% whole wheat, 20% T55 strong flour)water: 230gsalt: 7.5g100% hydration sourdough: 200g. (I use starter:flour:water in 1:1:1 in feeding)I believe this is 66% hydration for the who...	Well the first thing I notice is... 50% starter and 12 hours bulk ferment. These numbers don't add up.I would be able to get the bulk ferment done in just a couple of hours at these percentages. I think a rethink of this recipe is needed.You also need to spread out your stretch and folds. The dough needs to rest in-bet...
Starter Hydration How do you make 100% hydration starter? 75% hydration starter? etc. How do you figure out the hydration of a starter in a given recipe?	Math First of all, I've never baked with anything but a 100% hydration starter. You use little starter in proportion to the amount of flour and water, so it has never seemed important to me. Others might differ, and some books do.But the math is important to measuring the hydration of your levain and final dough. In...
A few loaves later - here is my success! Hi all, I have posted my first few loaves before. And then I was working on my skills in dough handling. And that's what was holding back the nice oven spring! This time around - nailed it and really pleased with my sourdough bread! The recipe is based on Teresa L Greenway WW st...	you definitely nailed it Well done.Your loaf looks beautiful :)
Reinhart's ciabatta with sourdough I made this ciabatta based in Peter Reinhart's recipe, but I adapted to sourdough. It worked fine, but doesn't really look a lot like a ciabatta, perhaps I made to much tension in shaping and the loaf raised a lot in the oven. Nevertheless it's delicious.The recipe included already a...	It looks lovely. Wonderful result. Yeah, I think maybe too expert shaping, lol.... tension. Be sloppier next time. I am envious. I"ve never made a really good ciabatta. Soooo wet and unable to shape at all for me.You should be very proud.hester
full hydration, natural levain, wholegrain loaves in a gas static with no DO? For the past few weeks I have been baking out of a school kitchen trying to prepare to sell to my local community. However, I can't seem to get a gas static oven to work and wondering if anyone can give advice on tuning so that:- I don't need...	Looks underproofed to me. Looks underproofed to me. That explains density, crust color, sheen, flatness, and interior structure.
A couple of newb questions I'm on day 4 of my first starter. It's 100% hydration with 50% KABF and 50% rye. The first couple of days, I saw some serious bubbles going on, and at feeding time, it had this sweet fruity smell to it that I assumed was as it should be. Here it is day 4, and I'm not seeing any activity at...	Perfectly normal!! 1. At this stage it is important to feed your starter when it shows signs of life and not to overfeed it. Overfeeding it now to 'wake it up' will just be counterproductive. Allow your starter to dictate to you (at this stage) when it needs to be fed. Keep it warm, stir it every now and again and feed...
Sourdough Formula I have been baking using formulas and percentages for many years. The last few years I have been working with sourdough in the winter‘s when time allows, which brings me to my question. I just started reading a book called the “Tartine Bread” and in the bread formulas listed in the book, The author do...	Preference In his final recipe everything is a percentage of the flour and the flour remains constant at 100% however it is written. So his formula can be written two ways.1: Overall Formula100% flour77% waterHe then preferments part of this formula and it's rearranged as...2: Final Dough100% flour75% water20% leavenTh...
Help Needed!: gummy, dense loaf I'm new to baking sourdough and my bread seems to always come out flat,dense, and with a gummy texture. It still tastes nice/sour and the crust is crunchy as well, but I just can't seem to get it to rise. I proved my bread twice (once overnight after kneading, and the second time for ~5h...	Hmm Here's my recommendation: buy Hammelman's Bread. This book has everything you need to know about how to make excellent sourdough bread, the methodology is solid and easy to follow, and the recipes are numerous and also easy to follow. It is a medium difficulty book, a perfect first book for a daring baker.I've ne...
Sourdough starter Hi,I am new to making a starter from scratch. My first attempt with AP flour, rye and filtered water from my fridge (warmed) was okay, but I don't think my starter was strong enough. I baked some bread anyway, and although it tasted just fine, it was rather flat. My second attempt was with rye flour ...	Starter I'm having all kinds of problems with making a starter. I've tried everything, mixing flours, adding sugar. I'm having problems. Is there a good resource for making starter? Also, Is it true that stainless steel is bad to use when working with starter?
Converting Reinhart ciabatta/focaccia to SD Hi.I took two recipes from BBA (ciabatta and focaccia), both includes a poolish, and both uses instant yeast.I'm just making my poolish with my SD instead, and planning to follow the rest of the recipe watching the dough and not the clock. Makes sense? Is it a good idea?Also,...	so... i am no expert as I've been on this quest for only a couple years or so... I've read here that if you do not use the yeast in the recipe you should increase the amount of levain you use in the recipe to about 20% (or more of the total). Then of course you have to wait longer for your rises, but the flavors shoul...
Is there a formula between % starter and fermantation times? Hi,I was wondering how do you calculate BF and proofing times according to the percentage of sourdough starter.For example I saw in a site that by using ~30% starter in your dough, you could expect about 3-4-5 hours of BF.Can I somehow calculate this? I want ...	There are other variables you'd have to account for Can you control the temperature of your bulk rise?Can you control the activity of the sourdough starter itself? If so, how reliable is that control?I, myself, can control the former and not the latter.
Understanding the feeding process As I delve into sourdough more, I'm still finding myself a bit confused on my starter. I've kept and used my starter for 8 years now, it's healthy and lovely and a joy to bake with, but I really hadn't experimented much.Most of the time, I simply keep a very small portion of starter i...	Whats the difference If you feed your starter then take some off to use or take some off to build with then use? I would think the difference between a six and 2 threes.Why would you do one or a the other? I think it all depends on how you prefer to keep, use and manage your starter.There are pros and cons to both.I pr...
70% sourdough Today's bread batch is 70% hydration. I'm pleased with the aesthetic and taste. Hole structure is decent - not super crazy irregular holes. My understanding of artisan bread is that it's a compromise between getting holes and having the dough be strong enough to maintain a shape, leading towards a good-lo...	So what kind of bred is this? Looks like a rye and wheat one?
Loaf results using levain I have developed a very robust starter but Im not getting the results I was hoping for from baking. Attached is a photo of one of my several attempts at Ken Forkish's pain de campane. Wonderful crust and flavor, but definitely denser than I expected. Per his recipe, the dough rises for about 5...	Lots of people have issues with Forkish's times especially if your kitchen isn't as cool as his. Let the dough rise during bulk fermentation to the level he says rather than following his times. Using a transparent bucket with straight sides helps with judging how much the dough has rIsen. As to proofing, once again te...
The Float Test Hey Everyone!Quick question about "the float test". I have recently read that a good way to test if your sourdough starter is ready for baking is by performing a float test (dropping a small amount of starter in a cup of water to see if it floats). Until now, I have been just feeding my starter and seein...	Float test is a good way Although I've yet to do one. I've just gotten to know my starter, how it behaves and how it should look. I winged it at the beginning by following recipes and using their guidelines. Troubleshooting the inevitable flops when first starting off. And now I go more by feel. It has been a learning ...
Sourdough Bursting - Troubleshooting Help Hello folks.This is one of two loaves I baked this morning, same batch of dough, proofed together, baked together and the same thing happened to both.Recipe was:83 gms white starter @ 100% (very active)600 gms white unbleached AP flour390 gms of water8 gms fine sea saltBriefly,...	I am no expert as I'm still trying to master scoring. But if I recall correctly, when the loaf bursts it's due to improper scoring. They look delicious, btw.hester
Spelt Sourdough starter not rising for over a month Hi all!I've been babying a spelt starter for over a month now and it has never risen or gotten to that nice big, bubbly, happy starter consistency. Help!I started it with the Deb Wink pineapple juice method (though used orange juice) and have been using purified water...	Spelt starter You might actually be starving it. Most recipes for starters call for percentages of the ingredients in grams, not cups. A quarter cup of water is about 60 grams, and a quarter cup of flour is about 30-ish (maybe more for whole spelt, but not much). So, by that method you are actually using 'more' water t...

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