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Stronger flour, weaker bread.
Greetings,As I'm still a bit green, I've been using a supermarket flour (Asda) with excellent results; it's 11%. I was bought a fair amount of branded (Allison's) white bread flour, which is 12%. - and I'm having failure after failure.The symptoms are that the loaf doesn't really proof pr... | The difference between 11%
The difference between 11% and 12% protein content should not be enough by itself to do much to the bread. Furthermore, percent protein does not mean percent gluten. The 12% protein bread could very well have less gluten.How does the dough feel when you handle it? Is it perhaps wetter than... |
Ischia and other Italian starters
I'd like to trade some of my sourdough starter, which I purchased from Monica Spillar back in the early '90's, for some Ischia. PM me for details.I'm going to the Ligurian coast this summer and I'm going to try to get a piece of starter from a bakery there or maybe start one from scrat... | If you can't find somebody to trade with
you can try this web site. They have sourdough cultures from all over the world. They can also be bought from Amazon and the reviews there are favorable. Ed Wood, by the way, wrote Classic Sourdoughs, Revised: A Home Baker's Handbook. I'm not sure if he's actually affiliated... |
First one in the books, looking for feedback
Well, I made it through my first stab at a sourdough boule today! It tasted ok, would like a bit more sour. It was quite dense though. I think it may have something to do with the fact that I bulk fermented in the fridge and it never really enjoyed a proper second rise. I p... | Proofing sourdough
Looks good, but a bit dense and gummy maybe. I usually bulk ferment my sourdoughs on the counter for a few hours then bung them in the fridge overnight. In the morning I shape them cold and then let them proof for another couple of hours, until the poke test indicates they are ready to bake. Five min... |
Bulk Fermentation in Refrigerator
Hi everyone, first time sourdough bread baker here! I'm in Florida and have decided to bulk ferment in the fridge. I have the dough in a large bowl loosely covered with plastic wrap and a dry kitchen towel. Does the plastic wrap need to be pulled tightly like you would for sealing foo... | For a bulk ferment its is ok to retard 24 hours
sin e you are going to shape and proof after it comes out of the fridge. I just put the bowl in a kitchen trash can liner and twist tie the top. The fridge will want to suck the moisture out of the dough so you want it tight, |
Rye Starter: multiuse?
For the last couple of years I've stayed with a Strong White flour starter I got going. It never really struck me as firing on all six and though the bread it/I produced seemed okay... I let it lapse, had frozen samples in the freezer.I had some very old rye flour knocking about and thought I wou... | To make it simple,
the flour is a sponge is simply a nutrient medium for the resident microorganisms, i.e., yeast and lactobacilli, so as a practical matter, anything that supplies sugars and/or starches plus the enzymes to bread them down, will do nicely. The fact that your sponge took off on rye attests to rye's sign... |
Tartine attempts yielding dense/gummy crumb
Hello, all. I've been working on a Tartine-style country loaf for a few weeks now and think I'm getting the hang of it, but my crumb is still denser, gummier, and less open than I'd like. I'm following the basic Tartine method with a few minor tweaks: 50/50 rye and AP starter... | When are you cutting into it?
If you don't wait till it is completely cool before cutting, the crumb can end up gummy. As to the open crumb, I think you are doing very well. I have been at war with the breads in Tartine 3 and finally had to give up on Robertson's method and quantities. So like I said, you are doing ver... |
Best container for sourdough starter
Hi, just wondering what is the best container for a sourdough starter? Glass or plastic, tight lid or plastic bag with an elastic band? Also do you think you can make a starter in a very large container, if you at some point will be making a lot of bread? Thanks. | Wide mouth pint canning jar
They have plastic lids that screw on. I just screw it on loosely. Sturdy. I keep about 1/4 of the jar. This gives it plenty of room to rise and I can see the activity and any "offness" immediately. |
Multi grain sourdough recipe
Hi!Just baked a nice multi grain sourdough and thought I'd share recipe and method here as I was pretty happy with how it turned out (nice and chewy and sour). The timings are mostly a result of trying to get the bread to fit into my evening plans:80g Wholemeal Flour75g Spelt Flour100g Rye ... | Very nice!
I love the crumb! I bet it tastes delicious! |
Long autolyse turning flour brown/dark
Hello all,I've noticed that sometimes when I do a long autolyse (several hours, just flour and water, covered bowl), the top of the dough tends to turn an unappealing darker/browning color. Is the dough oxidizing or something? Any way to avoid this? Any help would be greatly appre... | I've noticed this too
but it does not affect the final dough. On another note I never do such a long autolyse [overnight] without the salt being added or at cooler temperatures. |
Help! Hard crust every time
Hi All.I need some advice/help. All breads I've backed so far have all given me very hard crusts. When I try to cut the loaf with a bread knife I wind up crushing the loaf. I feel like I'm having to saw it like a piece of wood, once it gets going its ok. The first several breads I made ... | Crust s a;l about how you cover the dough and
how you steam and for how long. |
European flours and hydration
One of the things we European bakers learn is that our flours won't take the same amount of water that American flours seem to be able to cope with. This was pointed out by some helpful contributors when I first joined TFL.I'd be great to hear comments from other European bakers (and thos... | Comments from France
From my experience, French flours are much less "thirsty" than American flours, most likely owing to their lower protein content (by and large). Now, I have not worked with a wide gamut of French commercial flours, as I have only worked with flours from small artisanal productions (not dropping tha... |
Do US, UK and Australian flours absorb water differently?
Hi Everyone, I am new. Nice to find kindred spirits!I have been following recipes and instructions for sourdough from this site very carefully but I am stuck with glue balls. Boo Hoo. I was wondering if flours from different countries may be affecting hydration.... | Australian flour
Hi SourSue, there is a discussion on a very similar issue with European flours over here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/45456/european-flours-and-hydration. You might find some ready-made answers there. Please do chime-in with your experiences too. Hope you find a solution and happy baking! Colin. |
Tartine Master Method - wastage question
Has anyone here experimented with Tartine Master Method? (I'm working with book 3, and am brand new to making sourdough.)I've made the starter, and am ready to make the leaven. The method requires only 1 tbs of started, and 200g flour to make the leaven. Is this how everybody do... | New to Sourdough try the San Joaquin Recipe...
that David Snyder has on this website. There are a lot of us who think the creation of large masses of starter is just a weird idea. Once you get a starter established you don't need large amounts and there are a lot of resources here about how to approach this. The goo... |
Using starter vs building a leaven
What impact does building a leaven from your starter have when making a loaf as opposed to building your loaf using an active starter? i guess all I can think of is it changes the flavour profile if you use a small portion of your starter to seed a leaven and use it quite early but yo... | Hopefully that makes sense it
Hopefully that makes sense it's just something I'm trying to get my head around |
Sourdough
What would be the effect of adding lactic acid powder to sourdough bread dough? | Lactic acid
Not sure, but I do have a recipe for English muffins that uses sourdough starter and optional lactic acid, and it says you can add the lactic acid if you want the muffins to be more 'sour'. Chemically, I defer to other wiser heads to advise you. |
High Hydration
Hi there! Second time posting on TFL! After a bit of a hiatus from sourdough bread baking (I've attempted Chad Robertson's Tartine recipe many a time, and the bread always comes out tasting great, but always is a bit flat...) I've decided to get back on the wagon and just try as many recipes and variatio... | Uh, the way I understand is that
high hydration is a high percentage of water to that of flour. So if the flour is considered to be 100%, 75% water or more is high hydration. 60 to 65% would be in the lower hydration amounts. So this is the total opposite of what you stated above. If you are still confused, look up bak... |
Too Much Levan...?
In Ken Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast, many recipes instruct you to make a 900 g levan, using 400g white flour, 100 g whole wheat and 400 grams off water. Next step is to mix the final dough, using only 360 g of the levan then, if I understand correctly, throw away the remaining levan. That means... | Question for your question?
When you say the next step is to mix the final dough do you mean your bread dough? So you're making 900g of Sourdough Starter and then only need 360g for your bread dough, right?I am new to bread baking but when I take a cup or 2 out of my starter to make the bread dough I just feed my start... |
Sourdough Oatmeal?
Hi, I have a great starter and we make great oatmeal bread using a James Beard recipe (if anyone wants it, please shout.) Just curious--does anyone know of a sourdough oatmeal formula? Not sure if that's self contradictory or not, but was just curious. Thanks in advance! | Sour oatmeal
In Tartine 3, Chad Robertson suggests fermenting oats or other grain flakes overnight with a bit of yogourt (or other ferments like kombucha or kefir), then either using it in bread dough or cooking it into porridge before using in the dough. I wonder how long it would keep going once you got it started fe... |
Rye starter smell. Smelled good, not anymore.
The starter is little over a week old. I used half rye half whole grain (integrale). I feed it daily with a 1:1:1 ratio and keep it at room temperature.It used to smell great. First with hints of corn, then pleasant apple smell, but for the last couple of days I got a stron... | It sounds like you have an
It sounds like you have an active starter but the bugs are being starved. This can happen with the 1:1:1 ratio because you are inoculating the culture with a lot of microflora. Try feeding it 1:5:5 or 1:4:4 after dumping out ~90% of what you have. Or else you need to feed it more often, mayb... |
Sourdough
Hello, I started to make sourdough breads during covid. I use the no knead bread recipe from King Arthur Baking Company. My question is: What kind of berries (I bought my own mill) can I use to substitute the bread flour? Sometimes I use 1/3 of wheat flour. I make 2 loaves or 4 a week. Thanks so much and Ha... | You can use any hard berries
You can use any hard berries - though they will not be a direct substitute for BF , since you will have the entire berrie , some of which is sorted out in making BF. I prefer hard white wheat, aka winter wheat, its flavor is similar to BF. If you use a spring hard red, it will have mo... |
Cracks in SF Sourdough crust? Good/Bad?
SF Sourdough So, today's rainy/hail day baking experiment has resulted in one of the best SF Sourdough loaves I have ever done. It is crusty and flaky on the outside, very chewy and sour on the inside. The only issue I have with it is that the crust ended up with a spiderweb of c... | Re: Cracks in crust
I have heard that cracks in the crust is a sign of perfection, but I have not personally experienced such perfection in my bread baking yet! Congratulations on your acheivement. I also have no idea what causes it to happen. Maybe someone else will know the answer. |
My bread making needs some SERIOUS help!
So I've tried my hand at bread making three times now. The first time, my bread didn't really rise but I baked it anyways and it was a bread brick. The second time I tried a slightly different recipe and it still wouldn't rise so I chucked it before the baking process began. Thi... | Baked Results
The loaves are out of the oven and definitely not food... Very dense and still moist inside. I was worried there might be too much moisture but it is the exact same result as when I thought I didn't have enough! I think my problem is 100% rising. It seems like the bread is all packed into a small space be... |
feeding slow rising levain
my levain that I've had for a number of years is slow to rise when feeding.my normal feed is a 1/4c ap and 1/4c water @ 95° F or so.I've stepped back to multiple feeds closer together of 2 tbsp ap and 2 tbsp water. It use to double in a couple hours. Now it takes 8 or more. any suggestions? | You might want to give it
more flour. Equal volumes are not equal weights. Water weighs about twice as much as flour does so if the water is 1/4 c the flour should be close to 1/2 cup for 100% hydration. Yours is let's see .25 x (weight of one cup of water or) 240g = 60g water and the same in flour... .25 x 125g... |
Help! Sourdough is rising wonky!
Hi there!Sourdough newbie here! My boyfriend and I began our starter on the 21st February and have been baking once or twice a week with it ever since it was ready to work with.We are using the starter and recipe from Richard Bertinet's book 'Crust'. I believe it's a 50% hydration start... | sounds like a shaping issue
Are you shaping wonky? :)Have you got a picture of the crumb, a cross section?Tell more about the rising... how much, any handling, temps, and how many times? Are you proofing only one time or a series of rises? |
Newbie, My sourdough story.
Hi all.I'm a baker from Belfast, been in the bakery trade for 20 years. I came to learn about sourdough when I took my latest job 2 years ago.The head baker started a 100% hydration starter 18 months ago. After a few months of growing, we tried several small batches, following a few differ... | SO what don't you like abut your bread now.
Crust, spring, crumb or taste? |
Please help! Is my starter dead??
I started my starter last Wednesday using this recipe:http://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-your-own-sourdough-starter-cooking-lessons-from-the-kitchn-47337I pre-portioned my little baggies of flour so I wouldn't have to dirty my measuring cups every morning and put my starter on top of... | Not dead
Judging by the picture, it doesn't look like your starter is "dead" . . . in fact, it's pretty difficult to "kill" a starter. What it looks like has happened is that it rose nice and high (judging by the residue left on the side of the bowl) before reaching its peak and collapsing, likely because its very thin... |
At what point do I add my reactivated starter to my dough recipe?
I've taken my starter out of the fridge and done a 3-cycle refresh (1:1:1...wait for it to double and fall back; throw half out and repeat).I now want to use it in a recipe.At what point do I add the starter to a recipe?Immediately after I refresh it?An ... | Following
Following |
Caught some wild yeast, now what?
Day 6, WW flour only, 1:1:1 (4oz each), feeding every 12 hours, doubling in 5 hours (seems fast!), so now what do I do? There's so much advice online I'm having trouble choosing the best approach. I know I will need to slow it down and keep it in the fridge, using it once or twice a we... | Also,
Id like a mellow yeasty taste, not too acidic. How do I achieve that? |
How do I refrigerate my starter?
My starter has lived on my counter for months, but I have to leave it. I won't be able to feed it daily. Do I seal it tightly? Do I feed it and immediately refrigerate? how often do I feed it in the fridge? thanks! | questions others will ask
so I'll get them in first! How long will you be gone for? What is the hydration of the starter?There are a number of us who leave their starters in the back of the refrigerator (mostly) untouched, unfed but not unloved! for months without refreshing them. Mine is at ~62% hydration and it se... |
Update 3/27/16: How to Blast Thru My SD Starter's Plateau??
Hey,So I've tried several of the suggestions on how to liven up my sluggish White SD Starter. The problem was that after weeks of feeding, I couldn't get it to double in less than 12 hours.Using advice gathered from my SOS post on the topic, I played with the ... | Questions
What temperature were you maintaining for the culture, and what ratio were you using for feeding? It should be at least 70F, and a viable culture should generally be fed at 1:2:2 once it's doing well at, first, 2:1:1, and then 1:1:1.Also, are you using filtered water? Do not use tap water, since it is likely... |
Sourdough Bread with more tang using Sour Salt?
I have a very active starter that I purchased from KA Flour. It lives in the fridge until I'm ready to bake but always rises quickly when I bring it out and feed it. It makes great bread just not very sour. I have been doing some reading here on how to make breads more so... | Salt generaly kills yeast
Sour salt has citric acid in it, if I remember correctly.
Salt is a yeast killer.I wouldn't add it to a starter and you may notice a performance difference when it is added to the dough at high levels. I don't think the citric acid level will bother the yeast much.
My brother in law makes the... |
Re-Using Yeast Water Raisins : Y/N?
Hey,Pictured here is the old and the new, side by side. (Insert metaphor here) lol. Actually it's of a jar of spent raisins from 2 batches of Raisin Yeast Water and a jar containing a refreshed batch with new raisins I made over the weekend.As you can see, the spent raisins are pilin... | I drain them and freeze them
They are perfect additions for challah, raisin bread, fruit cakes etc. |
Sourdough Starter, America’s Rising Pet
Sam Sifton, a food writer for The New York Times writes today about the popularity of our friend and neighbor, sourdough starter - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/23/dining/sourdough-starter-bread-baking.html?Unfortunately our favorite website, TFL, gets no mention. | Sam Sifton
Thanks Alfanso , for reminding me that the NY TIMES has some great food articles and recipes. Sam has an interesting recipe for sourdough pancake and waffle batter, and a tweaked Jim Leahy recipe for sourdough no-knead bread. I will try these. Yes, I too am always surprised when The Fresh Loaf site is not... |
Tartine basic country loaf rising issues
Hello. I know it looks like a long question, but it's just because I want to give you all the diagnostic information you might need. The short version is: why didn't my loaf rise (much)? But that's not a very good question, so the long version is this. March 1, I started a sourd... | I am no expert
but found I needed to let my dough go another hour and a half past the 6 sets of folds to get to that billowy texture. I also put my dough in the oven with the light on and the door cracked to get the 80f temperature he wants for fermentation. Secondly, your lack of rise could be due to overproofing. I a... |
feeding my new baby...starter
Hello, King Arthur Flour site says to not use whole wheat flour to feed a starter. I'm having a hard time picturing Alaskan Sourdoughs (old-timers) using whole wheat flour to start their sourdough and then tracking down unbleached all-purpose flour to feed it. But, I'm new to all this, so ... | Not sure why
they would say that because from what I understand, WW has more wild yeast and bacteria on it than AP. I was feeding mine half AP ( which is similar to US BF cause of the high protein content in Canadian flour) and half WW. I found a local Miller and now I feed his partially sifted flour to my starter. I a... |
New Starter; What are These Layers?
I have never grown a sourdough mother before now. I used whole grain flour and equal parts water, basically I just went for slightly above 100% hydration to get things going. Only ingredient I added was, perhaps about two tablespoons of calamondin juice (an invented type of citrus ... | Looks fine
Just give it a stir and carry on. |
How is my spelt starter doing?
Hello.Edit: The video failed after a while. I updated the video with the starter after going from 200% hydration feeding to 100%.This is my first attempt at a starter and I'd like some feedback on the current status and where to go from here. I am using this recipe and started Monday, Mar... | Abe is right
Poor thing is too thin Thicken it up with more flour and all is well. You should be baking with this baby by now!Give it a go! |
Why do I have to discard so much starter? < Pics added >
Total newbie question:Why do directions indicate to discard all but a few ounces of starter when I feed the starter? That seems so ... wasteful. | don't need to...
I haven't discarded in years. Only when creating the new starter do you need to discard as that is when you are trying to get the good "things" to grow and multiply in a happy environment. After that you don't ever have to discard again. I keep my starter in the fridge so feeding is kept to a minimum. ... |
Sourdough Starter
I have been using my own sourdough starter for about a month. It has been doubling and rising really well. For the past week or so it has been taking on a real pale grayish color. I have maintained it on the counter the whole time and feed it a couple times a day. It is a thick batter and it is not ho... | Mine is dough-colored. Never
Mine is dough-colored. Never has turned gray. I know the color of the hooch is grayish. Maybe you're keeping it too warm or not feeding it frequently enough for the temperature you keep it at. I wouldn't know otherwise. It might help to know the following:What temperature you're keepi... |
Two Stage Levain Build
I'm trying to develop a formula for building a two stage levain. This main purpose of this is to cut down on the amount of seed starter required. Dabrownman has a great post on his 3 stage levain builds.For my schedule though, this won't work. Instead, the idea is to do the first stage at night, ... | L= desired levain amountThe seed amount (S) = L/251st flour amount = S*2-(L/250)1st water amount = S*2+(L/250)2nd flour and water amounts = simply the total of the 1st stage * 2***I realize that measuring to the tenth of a gram isn't realistic nor necessary. More of a math exercise!*** |
How to Blast Thru My SD Starter's Plateau??
Grrrrr I'm so frustrated with my white SD flour starter. I made two starters, a white and whole wheat on February 9th The whole wheat took off like gangbusters but the white one is in a holding pattern only doubling every 24hrs.I used Arrowhead Mills Organic Stone Ground Whol... | Try thickening up the
starter, or using less water when feeding. The other thing to do is let the starter not just double but reach it's maximum peak. Feeding only when doubled, might be diluting the starter. :)Um, why not just take a spoonful of ww starter and feed it white flour? I would. |
Can never pass windowpane test
Hey all! Been making Sourdough for the last year or so. Over the past few months my starter has grown considerably stronger (much higher growth and easily passes float test) and my sourdough has shown improvements. However, no matter what I try I am never able to properly pass the window... | S/F doesn't do much, unless
S/F doesn't do much, unless you do it constantly for a few hours. Simple fix. Enjoy! |
Using two starters rye and white
I made a rye starter and I had my white starter so I used both of them. I am not familiar with this technique but I seem to have gotten an excellent rise. I will post some pictures after the loaves have cooled. | Josh did a whole series of dual levain breads
Sometimes a stiff wheat and rye sour and sometimes a stiff rye and a liquid white. He is one fine professional baker and you would enjoy reading his blog where he talks about why he did what he did.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/blog/golgi70 |
Sourdough Takeover!
Hi everyone!I have a massive sourdough starter (1/2gallon) that I keep at room temperature because I'm trying to bake everyday…..The trouble is, the recipe I'm using (Peter Reinhardt SF Sourdough) only uses 1/4 c. I've tried pancakes and have not found a recipe I love, so I'm wondering if theres a ... | That is a lot of starter you have there!
I feel pretty small with my 100 g of the stuff in the fridge that lasts me 24 weeks. I don't there are many commercial bakeries with that much starter. No worries there are ways to detox yourself to where you will only have the amount of starter you need to bake a loaf or two ... |
Unrefreshed starter
My bread baking has taken a back seat over the last few years due to starting a new job that takes up way too much of my time. I now find myself wanting to get back into baking, but have a serious question that I need answered. I have a 5 year old starter in my fridge that hasn't been refreshed in ... | Always worth a try
As long as there is no mold growing on top, and no really weird colours, give it a try! Pour off the hooch though; it will be way too strong / sour / alcoholic.Try just a small spoonful at first and see what you get from it. |
Accidental Sourdough Starter...
I got a new toy just over a week ago now... A manual pastry/dough sheeter/roller/brake thing. It's as old as me and just as robust (ie. stupidly heavy) Some photos of it soon, however once I'd cleaned it up I decided to have a play, as you do, so made up some dough from some inedible flo... | Lovely!
Does it make any romantic noises when working? Clicking or cranking pleasantries?Q remains... why didn't you snatch a ball of the stuff? Did you use the damaged wet flour? That might have something to do with it too.The "orange and blue streaks" were more than likely food safe and the colour would have di... |
One year old starter not rising
Dear all, I have a problem with my 1 year old starter and would appreciate any insights and advises.I am using a year old starter. I usually feed it in 1:10:10 ratio as I have experienced that this kind of ration gives less sour taste.I never actually do the real counting, I just eyball ... | Let's back up
to Saturday... I hope you have some back up starter because I think the water could be fault. Also where is the starter kept between uses? Let the starter you have now (the older one) just sit uncovered (to encourage chlorine to evaporate) and don't discard or add any flour until it ferments or risk ove... |
Starter time peak and bulk fermentation + proofing
Hi all! I fed my starter earlier today and noticed that it peaked in 3 hours. Does this time frame relate in any way to the amount of time I should bulk ferment and proof ? | Good question!
I would imagine that indicates that you have a very active starter, so it probably will rise your bread dough more quickly too. Keep an eye on the bulk ferment for how long the dough takes to double, and use the poke test (early and often) in the final proof, and let us know what happens! |
First attempt
well first loaf baked using no knead method, rose really well but I think texture is bit close.tastes good though, any thoughts or advice appreciated | For a first attempt and using
For a first attempt and using a no knead method that looks pretty spectacular. Congrats!You baked it in a long pan, I think? It is tough to get a wide open crumb with a wet dough in a tall pan. It simply doesn't have the strength to stand up under its own weight. If you want an open crumb... |
Honeyville Flour
Curious as to whether or not anyone here has tried Honeyville Flour, AP and/or bread, for use in sourdough bread making. I live in Southern California (Inland Empire) and searching for a source of high quality flour at a good price. | Only Source
Though I didn't purchase AP or bread flour from Honeyville, they were the only place where I could get medium rye in bulk.I was very satisfied with them, also with their flat rate shipping.Karin |
Using SD Starter to Make Pre-Ferments: Yes/No?
When I made the Pineapple Mother Starter from Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Everyday, I assumed the majority of the recipes that followed would use it. I was wrong. In fact, popular recipes in his book like sandwich loaves and cinnamon rolls, don't use any home-made leva... | Posting
Not sure what the problem is, Wendy, but I've seen both your posts now (the ones saying you're having a problem posting)! |
"Dead" Levain?
Greetings! I'm a relatively new to sourdough bread baking and brand new to this site (I love it). I'm making a levain based on the method from Ken Forkish in Flour Water Salt Yeast (folks here seem to be familiar with this), so it's been 100% hydration levain with KA Whole Wheat fed once per day and reta... | It sounds like it needs a few more days
before the yeast is strong enough to raise dough. Be patient (I know, hard to do) and give it more time. It is normal for the mixture to get more fluid as time goes on. Next feeding you might want to skip the discard and just add more flour to thicken it up. What is the tempe... |
Starter Sluggish after Frozen
Hi all,I froze my starter to preserve it somehow when I was away.I now am trying to revive it, but it looks sluggish. I have fed it with Ehanner method (doubling method), twice a day, with no sign that it is active. So far it smells great and bubbles a bit (very little), but no rise whatso... | It ain't easy....
Remember, refrigerating or freezing doesn't preserve the starter, it just slows its death. Freezing is, I think, more of a shock to a starter than refrigeration, though it can help with longer term storage. When freezing or refrigerating a starter, three predictors of success are the hydration of the... |
Got 3 starters going, not looking very good
So the recipe I used last time calls for 300g of starter. I basically used up all the starter I had. The loaf didn't rise as much as I would have liked, but tasted good. These have been going a few days. I haven't been following the usual protocol of discarding 1/2 cup. I've ... | No, spring water from grocery
No, spring water from grocery store |
Second Try...
Well I decided to try a second attempt at this whole sourdough bread making thing. It turned out alright - I still need to work on shaping, scoring and getting that oven spring. Any advice on why it didn't have much oven spring would be great!Here is what I did IngredientsWeight (g)AP flour700Stone-gro... | Looks awful good to me for a 2nd attempt.
Bread like that will get you hooked. Try to stay out of rehab:-) Well done and happy baking. |
Sourness of sourdough
I was watching a video about making Panettone using a natural starter, the way it was traditionally done. They showed a very stiff starter that is wrapped in cloth and then tied with string which the man said was to prevent the starter from becoming too "sour" which would overwhelm the flavor of t... | I found this
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/30801/perfect-panettoneHe explains a bit of what happens when it's tied tightly and kept under pressure. |
Help: Sourdough Recipe for a Working Man with Kids? :)
Hi folks,I'm struggling to find a sourdough recipe to fit my schedule. I have one day a week where I pick the kids-up early from school, then bake a couple of loafs for their sandwiches the next morning.Currently I'm using a no-kneed overnight recipe, but would pre... | Recipe
This is the recipe I used last weekend - San Joaquin Sourdough. (Hopefully that link works).It lets you retard for 21 hours in the fridge. I didn't wait that long but it still turned out great and tasted great!You'll find something that works for your schedule. |
How many types of sourdough should I have?
Hi All,I've been wondering about this for quite some time.We have three jars in the fridge:- wholemeal wheat flour sourdough- wholemeal rye flour sourdough- rice flour sourdoughI started wondering if it makes sense and though I could get rid of one of the wholemeal ones, and m... | To quote a former Houston TV personality,
"Whatever makes you happy!"I keep just one storage starter (or mother, or chef, or whatever one wants to call it) on hand which usually has bread flour, whole wheat flour, and whole rye flour in the mix. Levains for specific breads are built to that bread's requirements for fl... |
Starter with 3 flour blend?
Hello All,I was curious about how you experienced bakers in the sourdough arena maintain your SD starters? More specifically, the types and percentages of flours that you use. It seems (from my reading) that most people keep either a 100% (white, WW, etc) or a blend of two flours (e.g. For... | Starter survey
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44733/starter-surveyquestion asked less than two months ago. Doc, for questions like this, there is a pretty good chance that they have been asked before. The search box in the upper right of the webpage is a pretty good place to start for seeing if there had been any l... |
Peter Reinhart starter-reducing hydration, ncreasing feeding before baking and adding more sourdough.
Hello!I just made my first sourdough whole wheat oatmeal bread from txfarmer using my Peter Reinhart starter. However, I do not know if it's because my starter is still young (my first refreshing time is tomorrow-it's ... | I can recommend a firm starter
I too have someone at home who isn't particularly fond of the sourness a sourdough -can- produce. She is particularly sensitive to any hint of sourness when I bake sweet breads with sourdough (and so am I in that case). So I started researching and trying different starters to find one th... |
First Bread experience
So It was my first attempt to bake a couple breads from a starter this weekend. I found two recipes on this site (Sorry I cant remember who originally posted them) and decided to jump into the sourdough world. The first recipe consisted of 450g AP Flour25g Rye Flour25g WW Flour (I used Red Fife)... | I think it's a great result,
I think it's a great result, and the crumb looks very nice. Much better than my first attempt. Flavor-wise, you may get improved results by extending the fermentation time. At the ~10% fermentation in your recipe, you could have gone as long as ~140 hours in the fridge (at 37degrees) to g... |
Changing the flavor of starter
My starter died when I went on a trip (forgot to refrigerate it), so I requested more granules from Carl Griffith's friends and began again.My new batch of starter tastes like a flat tone—just one treble not, and certainly no bass. That probably sounds like nonsense, but I can't think of ... | Often overlooked but an important thing for
LAB and yeast to develop a deep and well rounded flavor profile is to use mineral spring water and bran found in whole grains for food. The trace minerals in both allow the wee beasties to work their best magic.The other thing thing to remember is that not all wee beasties a... |
Sourdough boules fell after retarding in refrigerator
This is my very first time making sourdough- I followed the Bread Baker's Apprentice recipe to a tee, all the way from the beginning, making my own seed culture. Final step of putting shaped dough in fridge overnight: I took them out and they have fallen considerab... | Unfortunately
If your starter was lively and rose well during bulk fermentation prior to shaping, then I think the most likely scenario is they over-proofed in the fridge, rose, and then fell. In that case, no, I don't think they are likely to rise again. Perhaps your fridge isn't cold enough?Sorry to be the bearer of... |
pH meters and starter acidity
I’m thinking about purchasing a pH meter. I’ve long wondered about how acidic my starter is especially it goes unfed for a few weeks in the fridge. I’m also interested in how acidic my bread dough proof to as well. I’m wondering if anyone here has a pH meter that they use to measure the... | As I’m researching this idea,
As I’m researching this idea, I’m starting to think that just buying some litmus paper would be the easiest thing to do. |
Ideas for discarded starter
Hello all,I am looking for some suggestions on what can be done with accumulated starter discard. I've made pancakes, waffles, and banana bread with a single feeding discard of ~200 grams (I keep my starter at room temperature and feed it twice daily at a ratio of 1:5:5). However, I may go... | I think I would start out by cutting the starter
amount you ate maintaining by a factor of 4 if you are ending up with so much discard. Just keep less and build a levain from a smaller amount for each bake.I love SD pasta English Muffins, pancakes, cakes, cookies etc. You can make anything SD it seems but it is best ... |
Crumb advice
Hi all, I am very new to sourdough baking, and I'm gradually learning. Having compulsively read as much as I can on TFL and other sites, I think I need some advice from those more knowledgeable than me. I made an 80% hydration dough with an overnight liquid levain. I split the dough after the bulk ferment ... | Retarded proofing
I would suggest that, rather than be over-proofed, perhaps the dough is under-developed. With a dough that wet, I would probably proof it in the fridge for a bit longer then bake it cold, rather than proofing it at room temperature for two hours after taking it out of the fridge. You might get better ... |
Containers for refrigerating starters
Hi I'm new to sourdough, I get the main points, but when refrigerating my starter what should I store it inkilner jars or would build up of pressure be to muchor jar covered in cingfilmwhat size container to allow for growth also if I refrigerate and go on holiday for 2 weeks will ... | Kilner Jars
work very well for me. I have 3 of them.And a 2-week holiday has never been an issue (not that I've had many, but ...)-Gordon |
When and how to refrigerate starter?
Hi all, I have a 10 day old 100% rye starter and a white starter that's about 8 days old and i'm not sure how to tell if they are ready to go into the fridge. i made a fairly successful loaf with my white starter this weekend.When i do refrigerate the starter, how much should i feed... | Here is how i do it
No Muss No Fuss StarterAnd how you build a 3 stage 12 hour levain from a bit of it |
Starter not rising
It's bubbly as all hell, but not really rising. I'm using the King Arthur method. Feeding 2x a day. I've read that this is overkill and it's not getting enough time. I'm about 5 days in. | Let it sit awhile
I had the same issue with mine. Thought it failed. Someone said I might be feeding too often, so I left it and instead of feeding at 12 hours, I stirred. Wow, it went crazy over the next two days and suddenly I was feeding 2-3 times each day. Stir and watch :) |
Is this the correct way to test your sourdough starter ?
Hello : I kept my starter going for a while and just fed it about two hours ago. It is not bubbling now but I hope that it will after 4-5 hours.I remembered reading Tartine Bread book at the Barnes and Noble book store and it said "to test if your starter is rea... | I don't pay much attention to float
As long as the kept starter is active things should be OK. I follow Hammelman's approach and take a small amount of refrigerated starter and mix it with the right amount of flour and water to create the levain. I'm getting a Vermont sourdough ready to bake tomorrow so it's 30g star... |
My first Tartine loaf
I am super pleased with how my first Basic Country boules from Tartine Bread turned out. I pretty well followed the instructions from Tartine Bread but I did use the baking instructions from Tartine 3. I find that Chad Robertson's instructions aren't super clear but between both books and Youtube,... | Crumb
Here is a crumb shot. I am surprised at how nutty it tastes considering there is only 13.6% whole wheat in it. |
Starter storage in fridge question
Do I want an air tight jar when I get to this point? I know when you are making the starter, you want some air to get in there. What about when it's in the fridge? Will this work? Or am I better off getting some with a lever and rubber seal? | Doesn't have to be air tight
But without some sort of covering the starter will dry out in the fridge. I just use a little container with a snap-on lid. Sometimes the lid pops off, but that just means the starter is happy. |
Hamelman v. Reinhart
Hi everyone,I have both Jeff Hammelman's "Bread" and Peter Reinhart's "The Apprentice" and am having trouble reconciling the two with regard to sour dough. I made a starter from the Apprentice's methodology and it's worked beautifully in several of the formulas for that book. I'd like to use it in... | There are a lot f different ways to make SD bread
As long as you follow the formula, both PR's and JH's methods work wonderfully - even if very different from each other. There is no right or wrong when it comes to these two - they are just different. |
Rye flour starter hydration?
I've started a rye flour starter as an offshoot of my normal 100% hydration white/whole wheat starter. I'm using whole grain rye made it to 100% hydration and it's still very stiff. Ive always used a more liquid starter so I guess my question is how does a stiffer starter change things? | A 100% hydration whole rye starter is considered
wet. But it dies seem less wet than a white one at the same hydration. Even 100% rye breads are routinely 100% hydration, or even more and quite gloppy. I keep my stiff rye starter in the fridge at 66% hydration.Happy rye baking |
Kernza sourdough
I thought this Washington Post article might interest fellow bakers. I haven't tried it yet ...Ihttps://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/12/23/kernza-sourdough-bread-recipe/If you cannot get past the paywall, perhaps I can copy and paste the recipe. | On second thought, I'll just
On second thought, I'll just post the recipe. And add the info that kernza is a new grain bred from wheatgrass. Kernza sourdough bread For the levain30 grams (about 2 tablespoons) active sourdough starter130 grams (1/2 cup plus 1 tablespoon) water130 grams (about 1 cup) bread flour For the ... |
Sourdough starter health check
Hi bakers, I have just come back from holiday and returned to my beloved starter which a friend looked after whilst I was away How do I know whether your levan / starter is in top health. Have I done the wrong thing, I sprinkled a tiny bit of dried yeast in to the starter to reinvigorate... | Experiments show that any commercial yeast
disappears in a SD starter within 2 24 hour feeding schedules since it can't live in a high acid environment. No need to toss your starter at all. It will take much longer to make new one and this one will be right as rain in a couple of days |
Help! From Zero to Hero and not sure what to do...
Third time building a starter from scratch (First 2 tries could have landed me in prison for sourdough abuse).One is Gold Medal AP flourOne is H Mills RyeBoth are at 200g currentlyBoth hit DAY 8 last Saturday and I baked with them, VERY successful.As soon as I pulled ... | Immediate need resolved
In the last hour the AP starter dropped like a rock and the rye flattened out. I am going to assume I have a couple of nice starters. I'll feed, leave out at 68F and await advice, if there is any available.thanks! |
help me make a better loaf!
Hi all. This is my fourth try making bread using Michael Pollan's sourdough method from his recent "Cooked" book. Here's a good rundown of the recipe I am using.They have been coming out OK. Not quite as sour as I'd like, and not enough oven spring. The loaves are kinda flat.Also I canno... | Hi Christine
I looked over the formula and Mr. Pollan's loaf is quite advantageous. It's heavy on the whole grains and the hydration making for a dough that will ferment rather fast and can be tricky to handle. Sound like it could make for a very tasty loaf. First off I'd suggest not proofing the dough shaped overnig... |
sourdough and automatic breadmakers???
Since there has been some posts here from real sourdough enthusiasts, I thought I'd try posting this question.
Has anyone here found a way to use an automatic breadmaker to make sourdough bread?
I see them at thrift stores for less than $10 on almost every visit, and some are comp... | About the longer rise time with bread machines
Hi,Most, if not all, bread machines have a Stop button. Put your ingredientsin the machine according to the manufacturers' instructions and stop themachine at the end of a rise for the length of time you desire. Then, startthe machine over. I don't know if any have a... |
Refrigerator ferment
Hello all! Curious about refrigerator ferment. Last weekend my schedule did not permit my usual 8 to 12 hour sponge ferment, followed by dough, shape, bake. I remember reading online that you can ferment for 4 hours and then put it in the fridge for up to 24 hours. So I did 4 hours on the counter f... | Fridge fermenting
I don't know the science behind it, but I almost always bulk ferment my doughs (wild or commercial yeast) in the fridge at least overnight and my customers love my bread. Both the structure and the taste of the breads seems to be much better. |
Many British bakers here?
Just wondering if anyone currently baking using British flours wants to share their experiences. I've only really just started using flour solely produced from wheat in this country with nothing added from Canada or France. It makes quite a difference I must say. So please feel free to share a... | Yes there's a few of us..
I don't use 100% UK grown flours though - mostly buy from Shipton mill who blend UK and continental (or Canadian) to get the gluten/protein content up - which most of the larger mills will do.What are you using?-Gordon |
Sour dough bread - Noob. Starter not looking good.
I'm following this recipe. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/sourdough-starter-recipeI used 1 cup of thisand a 1/2 cup of spring waterand it looks like this. I was told to use exact measurements. But it looks too thick. | Made another batch with a
Made another batch with a different flour. 1 cup flour and 1/2 cup water. Same consistency. |
Wet or Too Wet?
Hi all,Over the last year my girlfriend and I have had a lot of fun experimenting, with varying success, with sourdough.This weekend we had one of our typical issues - a very wet / too wet dough. The recipe was a simple one from a British guy's baking book - off the top of my head 400gr white bread flo... | wetter than wet...
that works out at 75% hydration - I can't imagine any UK book suggesting a 75% hydration recipe - Which one? Wetter the better, but there is a point...With UK flours this is extremely sloppy and hard to handle. I rarely go above 70% and my usual breads are at about 63%.I did this recently: http://www... |
Weird White powdery stuff on the surface of my sourdough starter
hi, I was about to feed my whole wheat 100% hydrated sourdough starter and noticed that the top of the starter was almost entirely covered with some white powdery stuff. The starter is about 1.5 months old and has been doing fine when they were mat... | no expert but...
Well, I am no expert by any means, but to me, that looks like fungus. Mold. As in--get rid of your starter and start over. Black stuff on top is generally the alcohol liquid that develops--even though it looks bad. White dots? Yuk. Does it smell OK? |
Extra long rise at room temp?
Hi all,My sourdough starter has been being sluggish and not producing good rises in the cold and I was wondering about the safety of letting a loaf rise at room temp for an extended period? It's currently been out on the counter for about 36 hours and it's finally doubled but I'm not sure ... | First, how cold is your
First, how cold is your ambient room temperature? If your starter is not very active you should try and refresh it several times to get it back to where it should be. If it is just the cold of your room, than you can try letting your final dough proof inside your oven with your light on and a ... |
Gluten formation vs. sourdough acid
Overall my understanding of bread fermentation/proofing is:The gluten is a net that holds a lot of the "ingredients" you need to bake a delicious loaf. You are basically trying to shape/bake the dough at the optimal point where a lot of good stuff is trapped and the gluten is strong ... | The actions needed for gluten
The actions needed for gluten are none - time can take care of it. Enjoy! |
Eric Kayser Levain questions
Anyone out there familiar with the Eric Kayser levain method? It's the more liquid one as compared to say Forkish's more thick levain.Forkish has a particular way of reviving the levain when it's been in the fridge. It's a 2 day process that gets your levain ready to use again for his sourd... | Looks like a 1:1:1 ratio to me
Hey Tinpan. I'm not familiar with this starter recipe but did a quick Internet search and it looks like he is recommending a 1:1:1 ratio (per the last paragraph) to feed and/or revive your starter. https://www.maison-kayser.com/info/en/maisonkayseracademy/make-your-own-sourdough-starter-... |
Walnut Levain
Adopted from Maggie Glezer's book. | Which Glezer book are you using
for this recipe? |
glossy Sourdough ??
So the last two times i've made sourdough they have come out looking glossy inside. The outside had a nice crust but still slightly glossy. The people i work for think its undercoked and are ify about serving it to the customers. With apps like yelp etc they don't want to get a bad reputation since ... | How long is it cooling? Are
How long is it cooling? Are you taking the internal temperature of the bread before removing it from the oven? |
Bulk Fermentation Cold Storage experiment
As much as I love making great sourdoughs, I don't like guving up a Sunday to make a single loaf. I've been making Maggie Glezer's Essential Colombia and the Country Fremch loaves for years now. Recently I read in Mother Earth News that you can make a loaf of bread from a bulk ... | Nice looking loaf!
I bet it tastes great, especially after waiting its turn in the refrigerator.
Definitely a viable way to go and especially efficient for people with busy schedules. Not to burst the bubble, however, but there are a variety of books that outline the method. It works well and makes good bread! Enjoy!
C... |
First few Sour dough loaves
After trying some low hydration recipes <50% just to get the hang of baking, having never been much of a baker before, I took the advice given and began to work my way up. First I tried a bit of a home made recipe for 60% hydration. Came out well although there was a lot of oven spring towar... | The loaf looks great to me.
The loaf looks great to me. Keep up the good work. BTW, I sometimes use the grates on my range to rest the bread while it is cooling, nothing wrong with that in my opinion. |
Seed bread- Did I ruin it?
I am nearly at the end of FWSY having baked all but one of the recipes (Warm Spot Levain) so I am at the point of experimenting. I took the basic recipe for the Overnight Country Blonde and adapted it:Autolyse100 g dark rye100 g whole wheat680 g all purpose flour20 g wheat germ684 g water @ 9... | yup
yup, upped the hydration. It's not ruined just a little dry/stiff may take longer to rise than normal. Can still add it in.:) I add 4 x the weight of the chia to the recipe. 100g2 x wheat germ 40gand 2x the flax ... |
Understanding my 125% hydration starter
Hey, folks!I got some great help a couple of weeks ago getting started with Hamelman's Vermont SD, thank you so much, I'm turning out some great loaves :-)I do want to fully understand the behavior of my starter, instead of just winging it, which is kind of what it feels like now... | Starter behavior
IMHO your starter is performing well. Due to high hydration (125%) I would say that you are favoring more LAB then the yeast. If you want to experiment I would suggest you to create a new clone of your starter with 90% hydration and feed both at the same time and then see if more stiff starter peeks e... |
citric acid
Has anyone use citric acid to enhance the sour of their sourdough recipes. | No..
not sure I'd want to either as I don't particularly enjoy overly sour bread (and it doesn't sell well here either), however wouldn't acetic acid be closer to the mark?I do feel that working on your starter and technique would be more worthwhile thing to do though - many posts here about doing just that and relativ... |
how old should a sourdough starter be to produce a good oven spring
hi, Can someone shed some light on how old a sourdough starter needs to be to leaven a dough so well that it can have a good oven spring? Does a 1 month old starter has any potential? Is there any correlation between the age of the starter ... | I'd say it depends on your
I'd say it depends on your feeding schedule. Whenever I make a new one, it's usually ready after 7 days, feeding once a day!If yours is one month old, but kept in the fridge, a couple feedings before using should do the trick. |
Young starter fermentation & baking questions
Hi Everyone,Sorry for the long post and questions, but I am new to baking sourdough bread, and am having some issues with my starter's performance and in baking the loaves. My starter is now 14 days old and is a 50/50 mixture of Rye and AP flours. It is doing great, tripl... | bulk too long
My standard is based onTartine. I mix the levain in the morning and then mix dough at lunch or slightly after if a float test indicates I need some more time. I bulk for two hours with stretch and folds then it goes into the fridge. I shape cold the next morning which takes maybe an hour with a long bench... |
Another neophyte chasing the Sour Gods
I have been baking sourdough for about 2 years now. When I first started, the bread had a nice strong sour flavour, enough for people to comment on how sour it was. Not sure at the time if it was to their taste, but it certainly was to mine. Fast forward to today, and my sour tast... | Get some whole wheat flour and sift out the bran
(15% extaction) take 10 g of your starter and feed it 20 g each of the extracted bran and water. Keep it at 93 F. 4 hours later feed it 30 g each of the bran and wagter. Throw nothing away and keep it at 90 - 93 F for 4 hours, Then feed it 40 g each of the bran and water... |
Advice: Struggling with Sourdough Starter
Hello everyone,Firstly, apologies for the extremely long-winded post. I just want to include as much as possible to help troubleshoot this issue. For a month now, I've been trying to get a sourdough starter going and am running into issues. I have searched the internet to near ... | Welcome to TFL
That's a lot of info but the more info the merrier! You've run into problems which are common but your expertise has paid off. All your assumptions as to what is going on seems to be on the right path. I don't believe it's make or break but distilled water isn't recommended. Not that it should cause thes... |
Increasing hydration practise recipe
Hi all, so far I have just been doing quite dry doughs for my bread and would like to be able to start working on some of the more hydrated recipes.I believe that building up to this is the way forward. Does any one have any pointers towards some/a recipe that would give me a bit of... | Any basic recipe will do...
My favourite mix has 80% white and 20% wholemeal in it. (This is probably what most generic "country" bread recipes have, more or less)So e.g. 500g flour - that's 400g white, 100g wholemeal - then 7g dried yeast (my usual guide is 7g dried yeast for every 500g flour), and 8g salt.Now the wat... |
Confused about two seemingly conflicting theories
Dear bread masters, I'm very confused about the following two theories that I've read somewhere while studying bread baking. They seem to contradict each other to me: theory 1): high hydration leads to a better volume and bigger more open crumbs, a... | high hydration
If I add more water than a Theory one recipe can absorb, I suddenly have Theory (?) two.The thinking process starts with the flour, there are lower and higher limits as to how much water each flour can absorb and give off in the baking process and still remain bread. The more gluten in the flour, the mo... |
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