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Sourdough starter doesn't double up Hello good folks! I've recently taking up bread baking and I'm trying to do a sourdough. Instead of starting my own starter I found someone local to me that gave me some of their discard that they fed and gave to me (theirs is about a year old). I continued to feed it for a couple ...	Not an expert, but I just made my first starter/seed culture last week. Mine looked like yours. I got excited when it doubled once around Day 8, feeding 2:1:1. The succeeding couple days it grew 25% and then zero. My house was colder than yours, and I had it in the microwave with the door ajar, 72F. It seemed heal...
Is this mold on my new starter!? Hi everyone, I'm on day 3 of my first ever starter. I'm seeing bubbles on top and it's risen quite a bit today, but I'm seeing what might be mold growing on the top. I can't tell if it's fuzzy or just dried bubbles. Looking for opinions from more experienced bakers, thanks!	Here's a close up! As good of quality as I could get with my iPhone :)http://s16.postimg.org/he5vrb02d/Full_Size_Render.jpg
Gluten Deteriorates During Fermentation Hello all,I've followed this site for a while and have finally decided to join in the fun.I'm having some issues with making breads with higher hydration levels. I've tried making a higher hydration dough 3-4 times now and have had the same results each time. The dough comes toge...	What kind of flour are you What kind of flour are you using? What temps are we at?You say you get double rise every hour, is that the leaven or the dough? ... and you havent any yeast in there?If youre using decent flour and an active leaven as you say, your mix looks a bit on the wetter side of things, you should only...
HELP re milk fed starter A friend gave me milk fed starter her aunt originally started about 1973, used mostly for biscuits (friend's are wonderful)Last night I fed 1 c. starter: 1/2 c, sugar:1 c. 2% milk as usual. Several hours later I wanted a cup of warm milk before bed, but when I heated it, there appeared to be so...	it's not sourdough! I think what you're making is not "sourdough starter" but yogurt. I'm guessing you don't see any bubbles or any rise in your "starter" do you? Your culture probably has only lactobacillus and no yeast.In this case the yogurt contribution to the rise of your biscuits is the reaction of its acidity wi...
Unexpected outcome of an experiment... My starter has been slumbering away in the back of the fridge since before Thanksgiving and I figured it was time to revive it again. This is not at all uncommon and I have never had any trouble waking it up. I usually keep about 2 cups in a crock with a loose-fitting lid, and I...	I think you are building way too much starter, it ends up too thin, you aren't building it at 92 F and I bet it is white flour too. To get a sour starter use whole rye or wheat.Start with 4 g of starter and do 8, 16 and 32 g flour builds with equal amounts of water the first 2 builds but only use 12 g of water for bui...
sourdough second proofing too long? dear sourdough experts, Can you enlighten me as to how long a sourdough should rise for the second proofing? My sourdough bread is made of 10% sourdough starter, 50% each of whole wheat and white flour, 78% hydration, no knead. The bread are normally made in a batch, which ...	There are so many other factors at play as well For example, the temperature of the dough itself is a major influence. If it (and the ambient room temperature are low, it will take a long time to proof. If both are high, it will prove with astonishingly speed. Which part of the world are you in? Is it summer or winter?...
How to get a High Rising Whole Wheat Bread with lots of Lactic Acid Hi there, very new on scene of sourdough.I arrived here because I heard tell that sourdough is a more healthful digestible style of bread making, specifically due to the lactic acid. I've pretty much just been "winging it" after tinkering with no knead...	Lucky you! Like me you like sweet and sour and you can combine both in one bread. I would make 2 different starters and combine them in one bread. Grind 400 g of WW and sift out the 15% bran ending up with 60 g of bran and 340 g of 85% extraction flour. Take 10 g of your starter and combine it with the 60 g of WW br...
Question about Multiple Starters Hello everyone! Just having some thoughts today, what are the benefits of using multiple sourdough starters - in the same dough? I've heard of people doing this but never tried it myself. I keep my very happy, healthy starter well fed on All Purpose flour, and he always gives me a dece...	multiple starters I have been useing my own starter and the O.T. 1864 starter together for years. I just use equal amounts of each and get very good results.
Starter dome visible, but not yet double in size I’m preparing some levain for a loaf. My levain is 50% bread flour and 50% whole grain at 1:1:1 ratio. Two and a half hours into the feeding there is a visible dome in the levain, but it hasn’t quite doubled in volume.Has it peaked or should I wait longer?EDIT: Answering...	What would you estimate the What would you estimate the room temperature? You can’t judge duration of fermentation (time) without temp.
no expansion along scoring lines hi, can someone shed light on the cause of no discernible expansion along scoring lines? my simple dough is made using the following ingredients and steps: 50% whole wheat flour (14% protein) + 50% white flour (12% protein) 78% hydration (inclusive of the starter...	Check the scoring tutorial The answer might be there
is my sourdough starter mature enough? dear all, May I know how to assess the degree of maturity for sourdough starter to help to decide whether to transfer it to the fridge for long-term storage? Attached is a picture of my new 6-day old sourdough starter. Besides the small bubbles that you can see on th...	oops, I forgot to mention oops, I forgot to mention that I'm having this doubt because the size of the bubbles is small, not as big as what I see in most of the sourdough-making websites.liming
What's that smell? I am trying to build up a starter for the first time in a while. My starter's been growing for about 5 days, and smelling not too strong. Last night I built some loaves using it, and fermented them overnight.This morning, the loaves and the starter smelled... strong. Not acidic like vinegar, but a...	Normal, by my estimation It sounds to me like you're well into the "vomit phase" of the starter's life, which can take a little time to pass as all the natural little beasties in the environment compete for resources. Keep feeding and discarding, eventually you should arrive at a healthy starter. However, I wouldn't tr...
Rye Sour I started to make G. Greenstein Starter for Sour Rye Bread: Combined ingredients and it fermented for 16 hour. Something came up and I had to stop the process. So I refrigerated the starter. The starter been in the refrig for two weeks. Can I take out of the refrig let it get to room temp and start stage one ...	I am unfamiliar with this I am unfamiliar with this recipe but my gut is telling me you're going to want to start over.
Oven spring and timing of folds I was wondering if the timing of folds during bulk fermentation might affect oven spring. I made Ken Forkish's Walnut Levain Bread today and I was a bit disappointed that my loaves didn't get the usual oven spring that I have been getting with most of Forkish's recipes. I had to rush the...	I feel dizzy looking at the photo... ...Are you in Australia or NZ by any chance?Folding degasses the dough whilst strengthening the gluten, and I assume you did this is during the bulk fermentation plus you didn't bake before proving. If so, then the folding probably had little influence on your oven spring. It might ...
varying degree of maturity at different layer of my sourdough starter hello, 12 hours after I fed my 50%-hydrated white flour sourdough starter, I did a float test. It seems that a spoonful of the top layer can float on water. But if I dig a bit deeper into the starter and get a spoon of the starter down there...	Wait for the results First of all, there's nothing wrong with adding a small amount of commercial yeast to a loaf. The bread police won't knock down your door for doing so. A lot of home bakers do the same thing, sometimes to adjust production to fit time constraints and some will do it when the temperature is on the c...
Whats your favorite Sourdough book? I really want to get a sourdough culture happenning, but I want to own and read a book completely about sourdough and culturing a starter. There is so much info to sift through here, and I dont have the time to sit on the pc and read for hours.So, I thought I'd find out what books on...	Options... There are a number of options. One of the better books is Dr. Ed Wood's "World Sourdoughs from Antiquity" though many people aren't crazy about his recipes. Still, he covers starters very, very well. As sourdough references, I would avoid Laurel's book, Rose's Bread Bible, Reinhart's, and Silverton's books....
Sourdough problems Hi everyone! First time poster. I'm relatively new to sourdough bread baking, and am working hard to make free-form artisanal batards. But I'm doing something wrong, as I consistently get huge holes in my batards and a dense, chewy almost Lender's-bagel-like crumb. I've baked free-form loaves using f...	I think the problem is that I think the problem is that you haven't had enough fermentation happen, sourdough needs a lot more time than commercial yeast so I think time is missing from your recipe.When making sourdough I usually make a preferment with the starter and half the flour all the water and leave it at room t...
Sourdough pain a l'ancienne 180g 80% hydration starter460g 12.5% White flour350g Ice water12g saltMy recipe was very similar to the one posted by Shiao-Ping here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14719/delayed-fermentation-method-pain-l039ancienne.I mixed at about 8pm without the salt, holding back about 35g water, and...	Looks like you had fun... Looks like you had fun with this bread with tasty results. It is fun to experiment. When you are working with dough it is best to forget all those childhood lessons of "don't play with your food." happy baking!
A big Thank You To everyone who commented and suggested on my earlier post, Sourdough Problems:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44635/sourdough-problemsAs many of you noted, I was underproofing on the bulk rise, and after giving it a lot more time out of the fridge I ended up with a lovely sourdough boule and two pair ...	Those loaves…. look good to me! I would not be disappointed pulling those breads out of my oven. There is an art to slashing the dough, and it is one I have not mastered. Like your loaves, some of my slashes work beautifully and other parts of the loaf "burst" instead. I think some of the problem is uneven heat in ...
Adjustments to bulk and proof? I've been having issues lately with a lack of oven spring with my usual sourdough formula....loaves are coming out flat, scores just spread slightly, no ear, etc. Based on my analysis of the crumb, I decided they were over proofed.Here's one example:So, I tweaked things a bit in my proce...	If you suspect a dough has been over proofed Then best not to score at all as it'll only further inhibit oven spring. The problem might also be the scoring itself (even if not over proofed). Try an experiment and proof seam side down so the seam acts like a natural scoring. If this solves the problem then it points to ...
Question about handbook starter Hi, I'm relatively new to bread baking and have never made a starter before. I began by making the starter in the fresh loaf handbook, but ran into a problem. I live in NM and its quite dry here. My starter keeps drying out completely.....like just crusted up to the container. I adde...	So you got hooch in your starter.which means you need to feed and stir down your starter. So just when you know for sure all is well you tossed it? Oh my! Before killing off you starter next time it would be better to come here and ask what to do:-). No worry it wasn't a child or anything serious!What you did is a ...
Help with Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough/starter maintenance Hello, people! I've read so many posts re starter maintenance over the last few days that my head is about to explode! Could any 2 of you agree on a method??!! Please!! Apparently Not! All of those exclamation points point clearly to my level of crazy over this...	84 g seems right and 1 build unless you need more 84 g seems right. I work with 80 at 100% hydration. One build is right. If you are making a lot of bread you may need more starter but you would use the starter ratio not the Levan ratio.
starter from scratch Rank beginner here. This is my second try at a starter from scratch, and now I remember why I gave up on it last time.I'm using fresh ground wheat and adding about equal parts water and fermenting it in a plastic wrap covered plastic measuring cup. It's on day 3 now and doubling in size about with...	like sweaty sport socks? Let it ride and move it to another room, maybe skip a feeding but keep it above 75°F It has to get over this stinky phase to keep going.
Previously unknown levain yeast discovered in Québec forest http://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol20153	I don't see where these yeast were found living in a symbiotic relationship with LAB in a low acid SD levain? They were found in tree sap. Wouldn't it more likely be called a new tree sap yeast found as opposed to levain yeast? Very few yeast can live in the high acid environment of a SD leavin. Am I missing someth...
For Starters... I started baking bread about six years ago. I like to know the why and when about things, so a little bit of research discovered the joys of brewing beer. I've used beer yeast to make bread. I've used Red Star yeast to make beer. Ok, you can make bread with beer yeast but you cannot make beer with Red S...	If you do a google on ancient beer and bread making you will find lots of insights - Samuels is great source for both, Bread yeast was commercialized from the barm off the top of fermenting beer. They are pretty much the same strain of yeast. I have no problem making beer from bread yeast. There are lots of beer ye...
First attempt at 100% whole wheat sourdough I proofed it overnight on a piece of parchment paper in the fridge and baked it this morning straight out of the fridge. Crust and texture was really good it was just a little flat. I wonder if a proofing basket will help to keep a more upright shape?	Good looking loaf, open Good looking loaf, open texture for WW. Yes some support would help for a more vertical loaf.
Alcohol smell and safety? I started a new starter (my first) 6 days ago with AP flour. It was really active, tons of bubbles, rising during the day, but I wasn't feeding it enough I think and it was getting a strong alcoholic smell. I changed the ratio and lowered hydration and it had a really perfect "sourdough" smell...	re: alcohol and SD safety Sourdough StarterIf it is active, and then once it has risen and then collapsed, if it has a smell of alcohol, all it well. Many would consider it to be part of the flavor profile. This would also be the time to feed it.Any funky smells or scum or mold might require other treatments, but the s...
Second Attempt - 100% Rye, 100% Hydration My first loaf was an overcooked, imploded disaster.I started this thread last week to get some urgently needed advice during the final proof of my first loaf. The paste wasn't rising as scheduled and I didn't know what to look for (still don't). People tried to talk me through ...	Looks good so-far.. and even before cutting, you know that it's sprung up and filled the tin so it's going to be very un brick like indeed.I'll be making up some ryes tonight for baking tomorrow morning - one thing I've never checked is the temperature of the dough as it comes out of the fridge - that might be interest...
Ken Forkish's levain vs Peter Reinhart's mother starter I've just made a mother starter based on Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads book. It's a 100% whole wheat starter. His instructions are to leave it in the fridge as soon as it's done and it will be ready to use for up to 3 days. Forkish's book, Flour, Water, Salt...	You can use a whole grain starter your levain I have both a whole rye starter and a whole wheat starter mother starter. I then use my mother starter to build the levain for any of the multitude of recipes from anyone. Your mother starter just from the fridge will most likely not be ready to rise a loaf. My own meth...
Very old Sour dough starter needs some help Hello! My parents friends gave them some sourdough starter in 1982 that had been alive in their family since at least 1872. From their words it was one that was actually used on the cattle drives in early Montana. I am the only one in our family that has been able to keep...	Incredible! Wow Kelly! This is definitely one for the history books! You're pretty lucky to have that starter around. Not too many around like it.There are so many variables at play. I would suggest posting and with pictures, as much information as you can. Like your starter recipe (how much flour and water your feedin...
Starter and Yeast? I don't understand why some recipes call for both, starter and yeast. Why?	Two reasons I know at least two reasons.One is when you have an essentially sourdough bread, but need to make sure that it will rise on schedule or always to the same volume. It is important in bakeries, especially in large bakeries to bake and to deliver bread on time. Then you add a bit of yeast.Another is a normal ...
Sourdough starter Does anybody know of source for ALASKAN SOURDOUGH STARTER? I don't want ebay or etsy. Cultures for health does not carry it any more. Thanks.	just use the all mighty google. breadtopia.com was like the third one.
Can I make sourdough starter without feeding it? A DIY book I found states to mix an equal weight flour with water, cover with cloth and leave for 3 weeks. Then it's ready to make bread. Can it really be this easy?Any other source I've consulted says to feed it daily or almost-daily, and I've failed that every time (ju...	Re: Can it really be this easy? No.
First Timers - There is Hope. Hi all,Recently joined TFL to learn from the Learned as I venture into the bread making world. After living in Europe and being exposed to what bread should be, I find myself back in NA in a bread wasteland, and I am forced to take matters into my own hands. After a few VERY unsuccessful ...	Nice loaf, First Timer! Looks very tasty, for sure! And I can almost smell it. :) Next time, maybe also try a little less starter (what you called a sponge) and a little more flour and water in the dough, and see what difference that makes. Then try retarding the finished dough for longer in the fridge. All kinds of fa...
Starting starter-natural vs yeast All my life, I was taught to make a sourdough starter using dry active yeast in your initial starter. It has only been recently that I have learned that's not how it is done. I was wondering though, since your wild yeast changes with time and location to adapt to local flora, would a...	My understanding of this is My understanding of this is that as the acidity of the starter increases the yeast will be replaced by wild yeas. So over the course of a few weeks you would have starter populated by wild yeast. Gerhard
Rye Chops/Cracked Rye Hi allIm working my way through a few of Hamelman's recipes. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what Rye Chops and Cracked Rye are, what they are called in the UK and where I can get them? I've had a look at the website of Holland & Barrett(big health food store chain) but cannot see them.Many t...	They are what they say they They are what they say they are. Rye chops is the rye berry chopped to course pieces and cracked rye is berry's that have been cracked once again very course.You have asked the million dollar question. Where can I get them. Found these online places. http://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-di...
Am I Doing it Right???? I need to know if I am feeding my starter the right way. My directions say to feed it at room temp its weight in flour and water at a 1 to 1 ratio for three feedings 8 to 12 hours apart. Then I can bake with it. So here is what I m doing...I start with 4 oz starter. 1st feeding I add 2 oz flo...	As long as your ratios stay As long as your ratios stay the same, your leaven will be fine texture wise. If youre only just building your starter, then room temp is better, once youre up and going in the fridge is fine and you can feed it straight from there. The weighing is usually for the flour and water that you add...
messages from the location of the bubbles in new and maturing sourdough starter hello, Can some sourdough masters help to enlighten me as to my following puzzles? 1) why some sourdough starter has bubbles both on the side and on the top, whereas others only have bubbles on the top? 2) why do bubbl...	my answers 1. in a high hydration starter the bubbles will rise to the top, vs. in lower hydration starters where the bubbles will remain "entrained" and be visible from the sides. So it relates to how liquid the mix is.2. yeast will eventually consume all the starch available and stop metabolizing and stop producing g...
First time using baker's percentages for stiff levain Newbie to sourdough and baker's percentages recipes here. Just a quick question:I obtained the following recipe for a stiff levain starter from a local baker:Stiff LevainBaker's %IngredientsBatch Size (kg)100.00Bread Flour0.48050Water0.02420Starter0.010170Total0.082...	Calculations? The total flour is the 100% value.So you start with 480g of flour.Water: 50% of 480g is 240g water. You're a factor of 10 out here.Starter: 20% of 480g is 96g starter (again, almost a factor of 10 out)170% total - is just silly. ignore that one. The total will be the total weght: 480+240+96 = 816gPersonal...
How to make bread taste more sourdoughy? I've been working with some active starters and turning out decent loaves, but they're not very sour. What is the secret? Is it letting it go longer in the refrigerator between feeds? Right now I'm typically making a loaf weekly, which means feeding it every 4-5 days.	Drop the amount of starter in the dough and increase fermentation time for a more tangy sourdough.Less Starter = More FlavourMore Starter = More Mellow I have heard that keeping starters a certain way will produce a more sour starter but I don't believe that's the full picture. It's also how a starter is used within a ...
Bread Flour Starter From Scratch With a lot of discussion about which flours are best to make a starter, and when diagnosing a potential issue the remedy is often to switch flours and wholegrains are best, I decided to try making a starter from scratch only using bread flour. Flour Used: Allinsons Strong White Bread Fl...	I have had great luck making I have had great luck making starters from scratch from either bread flour or all purpose flour. In fact, I've never really made anything else, beside a rye starter for curiosity's sake. I want my starter to use the flour that is the cheapest and most widely available to me, so I generally ...
What did I do wrong? Thought sourdough baguettes would make good sub sandwiches. Never made them before and they came out very blond. Used Peter Reinhart's book San Francisco sourdough substituting some ww and rye flour for the bread flour. I'm happy with the inside of the bread and the way it tastes but why on earth i...	I'd say not hot enough... ...and/or for not long enough. But that's just as a general comment. I don't make baguettes.Also, one cup (US measuring cup I assume) of water seems a lot to me but I don't know what effect that might have had on the bake as I tend to be frugal in that department. Moisture is supposed to add t...
Pre-Ferment - Increase overall hydration? Hey, TFL! First post in a while. Still exercising my sourdough starter, just not posting much. I recently made a change to my process, though, and wanted to get some input.... I'm still using the 1-2-3 formulation (150g starter for my standard loaf), but have recently begun...	Having difficulty in understanding your process If you're using the 1-2-3 method and your starter is 150g then water would be 300g and flour would be 450g.Providing your starter is 100% hydration then the dough would be 71%
Newbie needs more Info! I am using Reinhart's Crust and Crumb to make my first sourdough barm starter. Some of his directions are a little vague and confusing to me. Can someone explain simply what needs to be done? My question is concerning the starter once I put it in the fridge for use later on down the road. Do...	As I do it... I always seal my starter once I refrigerate it on the chance that it will expand enough to try to escape its confines.The directions for Day 5 have you adding 4 cups of flour and 3 cups of water to whatever you have after day four. This assumes that at that point, having refreshed your starter on day four...
smell of sourdough starter hello, My new 2-day old sourdough starter has a very strong bad vomit smell. But when I fed it just now, it seemed to me that the bad smell mainly come from the top portion. After I discarded this top portion, the smell from the lower part did not smell as bad as before. Is it ...	The Smell Leconostoc activity. Very normal for this stage. This is bad bacteria. Don't over feed but give it a little fresh flour and water. Soon the starter will become acidic killing off the bad bacteria and making way for LAB and yeast.It is also normal for the starter to appear to die down after this initial bubbli...
San Joaquin Sourdough with 36-hour retard Hi everyone,I haven't posted for a while, and with a particularly hectic schedule, sourdough baking has taken a back-seat to yeasted doughs made in the bread machine (bad me, but, hey, sometimes life is just busy).Christmas Day was my first real chance for a break, and with din...	It sure looks like David's fine bread! I can't imagine it at 58% hydration and getting those big holes but the flour in the UK requires less water. Very well done and Happy baking to you in 2016 Colin.
Sourdough serendipity - creating my starter I created the starter November 23 or 24, at 100% hydration with tap water and whole wheat flour. I was patient the first week - quickly saw bubbling activity and could tell the pH was lowering because it took on a lovely clean sour smell.Kept feeding it once or twice a day, d...	Bleached? Go back to wholegrain. Very good for your starter. I cannot see any photo, it's not showing for some reason. Work computer servers aren't too good.So here is an idea (it always is when it comes to starters as everyone here has their own method and all perfectly good)... Wholegrain is good for starters and who...
Every dough turns to goo I've been using the same starter for about three years, and it seems healthy. I feed it, it doubles and falls, it smells the same as ever.Lately, however, whatever dough I make with it turns into goo. English muffins, a plain old load of bread, a plain old loaf of bread using a different recipe...	pesky Thiol compounds? http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/121566#comment-121566Also be sure to run a site search on: pesky thiol compounds
Preferments vs AB5 I'm a few months in to a random daily bread baking obsession : ) and have played around with Bread Baker's Apprentice recipes as well as AB5, which to me contrast the kind of two extremes of this hobby, but both result in rather tasty things. I'm now deep into the sourdough forest, hearing different ...	I also wonder I've also wondered about this and would love to hear expert opinions.
Importance or significance of knowing hydration % I asked this in another thread but it may have gotten missed.Can someone explain to me why it's important to know what hydration your dough is at?	So that you can... ...smugly parade your skill at herding a sloppy mess into something resembling bread.Oh, and so that you can scale a recipe and tell other people how to replicate your loaf using bakers' percentages. That too.
Tartine-ish - 77% Hydration in the UK ... OK, so here we are, living in a slightly damp country where we can really only grow oats and low protein wheats (for the most part). Makes fantastic pastry, but bread... Well, out bread flour is usually augmented with Canadian or some European wheats to boost the protein levels...	British flour I wonder what kind of flour Richard Bertinet uses? I know he bakes in Bath (check out his web page www.thebertinetkitchen.com). Unless he imports it. Probably. :)I've been experimenting with high-hydration breads too. Sometimes I end up with the consistency of half-set Jello, which makes it challenging fo...
Ooni starter failing to grow I’ve just gotten an Ooni pizza oven and woke up my starter about a week ago to have a go at making sourdough bases. The starter is really old and very stable, and having fed it every day for about a week it was doubling in 4 hours. However, I then followed the Ooni instructions to decant 50...	Give it time If you fed it more flour and water than usual, just give it time. It will eventually rise. Maybe placing it in a warm spot would help as well, if your kitchen is not warm enough.I had it like that in the past as well with my starter after feeding it. It stays still for hours and then explodes, suddenly ris...
deflated bread I have been playing around with the recipe for an overnight sourdough from Ken Forkish (Flour, Salt, Water, Yeast), and have been having some trouble with the bread - it is coming out of the oven deflated.I am guessing this is an issue with over-proofing, however, wanted to see if there were any other th...	Been a while since ive tried this Can you post the recipe?
Vermont SD, Kombucha Style I recently grew a starter from Kombucha and here are the results of my first bake with it.I was following Abe's post of Hamelman's recipe, found here.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44371/sourdough-serendipityOf course, crumb shot to follow, but it looks promising.dobie	Looking very good! Full of promise. Looking forward to crumb shot and taste report.
Bake #2 - With Modifications First of all, I want to thank everyone for their feedback, suggestions and kind words after my first boule. You made it very difficult for me to wait until the weekend when I knew I'd have the time to make a second trial run. I wanted to put your suggestions in effect as soon as possible.I ...	Looking good. Actually, it looks picture perfect. If you can repeat that loaf consistently, you ought to be very happy!You may have warmer spots in the house where you can proof the bread -- the oven with a light on (or a heated cast iron pan in the oven), the basement, a small room that heats up more than the others.
Loaves too dense! Hoping someone can assist me - I know very few people IRL who bake bread, and nobody who works with sourdough.I've been baking bread for about a year, and it's definitely been trial and error. I've been trying my hand at sourdough for a few weeks, using dehydrated starters I've bought online. I don't ...	You haven't done anything wrong per se All looks ok to me. But you haven't given the actual recipe. Perhaps a different recipe might be I order? But first give the recipe and we'll take it from there.
Effect of LAB on gluten structure breakdown I've poked around a bit and can't seem to find much, definitive or otherwise, to the above question. I recently made the Hamelman Pain au Levain WW formula. In the past, which really means the small handful of times that I had made it over the previous 4 months, I retarded ...	Hi alfanso,Dough degradation Hi alfanso,Dough degradation depends on many factors. In a sourdough system two thirds of the breakdown is driven by bacterial proteases. To calculate a desired duration would be rather tricky.Oxygen is the antagonist to proteolysis. So by increasing the redox potential of your dough/levean...
Maintaining and baking an einkorn sourdough starter Hello. I am an amateur at this. It's been one week since I have established my einkorn sourdough based on Jovial's 10 day of beginning an einkorn sourdough process. However, I find myself confused about their process as they said "i would never have to discard any mor...	Very late here and will elaborate more tomorrow Basically there's no one way to keep a starter. 3 bakers, 4 opinions. I find it easiest to keep the starter in the fridge. Take little off each time to build preferments with. Then when the starter in the fridge runs low I'll feed it then return it to the fridge. No need ...
WW Sourdough help Hi,I am a long time home baker of sourdough.The past year I didn't do much bread making and didn't take of my starter and it died.Recently I bought some new dried starter, activated it and started using using.My bread wasn't the same, it was wet and heavy.The starter didn't seem to very good so no I j...	My Answers /nhuman: Does my hydration make sense?
First Boule Crumb So this is my very first sourdough effort with my first (successful) starter. I hadn't cut into it when I posted a photo of the outside in the introduction forum so I thought I'd post the followup photo here along with a couple questions.The crumb was ok but not as open as I'd hoped for, at least cut ...	you have every right….. to be thrilled with your first boule. Nice baking! Your question of AP vs bread flour depends on how strong your bread flour is compared to your AP flour. You can check the milling companies' websites for specific information. I use a lot of Dakota Maid AP flour for cookies, quick breads, mu...
No Discarding of Sourdough Starter Well I'll try again. The post seems to have vanished. Thanks for the heads up. NI hate to throw away starter. Here is what I think can work but I need advice. I'm thinking that when I want to use my starter to bake bread I can do the following.First remove it from the fridge and let i...	re: no discard of starter Welcome to the forum MickeyDQuestion or statement? Or did the gremlins eat your post (they do at times).dobie
Heating the starter a bit too much.. Hey guys,I am in the middle of making the polenta-pumpkin seeds variation of the Tartine basic country bread, and I think I have a little bit of a problem. Last night I made the starter (I tweaked it to mostly High-Extraction flour with 100% hydration) and left it to ferment overnig...	I highly doubt placing next to a heater will kill off a starter. And you only need a tiny bit of healthy starter to inoculate a lot. So providing there's some live yeasts/LAB in there it will survive and another feed will bring it back to normal. So feed it and see.Might be good practice to create preferments by taking...
Finally got my shaping down! A few months back, I posted asking for advice on how to get a proper bâtard shape. I can finally say that I have learned to do so consistently, while also getting better at developing blisters on the crust. thanks for your help everyone! -Frank 53A0BCB0-0CC2-4D24-8C5F-4E1A8D3AB332.jpeg	Frank, the loaves have butts! Scroll shaping and looking good! Got a crumb shot?
Yeast Water questions. Greetings All, It's snowing like crazy outside, which tends to decrease traffic through the ER, so I'm sitting here thinking about my next baking experiment (as I often do when it gets cold outside).I keep seeing post after post about the vigor of raisin yeast water as a leaven, and I am inspired...	Dabrownman has a Yeast Water Primer http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/35473/yw-primerVery easy to make. Nothing to it. And here's a visual... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcfuUtbnteYOnce you have made it and it's viable then all you do is make a starter from the yeast water by doing a preferment. The flour within the...
freezing your sour dough Hi all, looking for some advice on freezing my sour dough pre baking. I am baking loaves as well as pizza bases, so looking to find out at what stage of the process if any you can place your mixed dough into the freezer and what you need to do when want to bake it?Not wanting to greedy with my...	Yes for starter but it is better dry a schmear on parchment and put it in a glass cotnainer with a lid in a cool dry place. The only time I froze bread was right after shaping. The other identical loaf went into the fridge for a shaped, 12 hour retarded proof. The one in the fridge was better but if you didn't have ...
Very soft sourdough dough Hi guys, its me again - now I have the right water/flour combination the dough is very soft. On second prove the dough comes out of the basket quite flat, how do you achieve a stiffer dough ( more robust to handle ) without losing the nice air holes I am getting once the loaf is baked??	Possibly your timing.. Can you post the recipe and times? My experience has been when I've flipped out a boule on the counter and it's lost it's entire shape and is difficult to handle, it has been because I've over fermented/proofed the dough. Let us know..
How to get super chewey bread? Hi all,I am pretty new to this game, but having a great time learning. I have been making sourdough and ciabatta bread and getting some decent results. The one thing that seems to be lacking though is some toughness in my crumb. This week I tried twice to improve on this but with no...	Reverse engineer a good bread to make it very chewy. Drop the EVOO, don't develop the gluten in the flour. Steam for most of the bake and lower the temperature of the oven. Shorten the fermenting time and don't fold the dough. And if that doesn't work you can sit a heavy object on the loaf while it is cooling.
Online sourdough recipe tool I used the formula created by TXCraig at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.175 to estimate sourdough quantity and combined it with a baker percent calculator to create a simple omline tool to create sourdough recipe with an option email a copy of the recipe. Let me know...	Bert, I just checked out Bert, I just checked out your calculator, it looks great.
100% hyradtion I am new on the site, a seasoned baker, yet although I have maintained sourdough starters in the past for pancakes, I am learning and having fun experimenting and using my newly cultured starter for use in breads.I have used the new starter twice now, yielding great results (thanks drogon for the tutori...	Not sure, but ... for the record, I keep my Rye starter at 150% hydration... After using it and topping up the jar it will be a bit looser after a day in the fridge though.-Gordon
My starter - will it starve to death in 4 weeks? I'm now a hopeless sourdough fanatic. However, I will be starting a job in January which will take me away for alternate months - a month at home, followed by a month away. There will be nobody at home to feed my starter, which is now over two years old. It has b...	Put it in the fridge in a Put it in the fridge in a covered container and forget about it. It will be fine. You're going to refresh it prior to baking anyway.If it's a liquid starter, you'll get a layer of hooch (alcohol) and you simply stir it back in.People fret too much about their starters.
You ever just throw some yeast into your SD culture Dont get mad, im just wondering! is it sacrilegious	I've seen some say so But that might be bordering on criminal mayhem! I know that you are only asking the question, maybe cruising for a fat lip or sumpin' (the Bronx coming out of me!). But that's like asking to add strings to "Sunshine of Your Love". Why?However, there are formulae which add IDY to an SD mix. Her...
Formula Help, please I want to try the San Francisco Style Sourdough loaf from the Fresh Loaf handbook, but I'll be using Beth Hensperger's 2-week biga, which is at 74% hydration. I don't have a sourdough starter and after killing two, I'm happy enough to live without true sourdough. I would like to see what this biga ...	White flour: 100%Salt: 2%Water: 72%30% of the flour is in the starter.and the ingredients:White flour: 500 grams or about 4 cupsSalt: 10 grams or 1.25 tspWater:Using a wet starter: 210 gramsUsing a stiff starter: 270 grams Starter: Two optionsWet starter (100% hydration) 300 gramsStiff starter (60% hydration) 240 grams...
Starter Day 5, Made beer! what to do now...? As the title says, I've successfully made hooch... and really need some seasoned advice on what to do next. (the photo is of after I mixed the hooch back into the starter)I must admit, I'm entirely new at sourdough. Infact, I don't even like sourdough, but my husband does, a...	Hungry It is definitely hungry. I don't know how much you are feeding, but it seems to be ready for more frequent and/or larger feedings. Also, giving it a stir a few times a day helps a lot.
Sourdough ciabatta deflated during proof I took Modernist Bread's recipe for their yeasted ciabatta and used a sourdough starter instead. My ingredients are as follows515g Kyrol Premium High Gluten Flour (13.7-14.3% protein)100%450g Water 87.38%20g extra virgin olive oil 3.88%50g sweet stiff starter (60% hydration) 9.7...	Lots of potential issues but Lots of potential issues but not much info provided- no mention of how starter amount was calculated for replacement of yeast- no mention of starter flour type, maturity, rise- with oil and sweet starter (enriched dough?) can retard gluten formation - no mention of kneading or mixing techni...
Starter question again Hi,Made two breads today following the country bread recipe from Chad. I got two flat loafs - and i'm pretty sure its the starter. The dough was rising during the bulk fermentation.The starter was rising every time a feed it - but it did'nt double in size. How to do that ?Every day i discard all ...	bench it Give it some feedings on the counter. Don't feed it until it begins to fall. Do this a few times until it is more active. If it is taking more than 12 hours to start to fall then you can feed it less next time (like 80g of starter, 40g of WG, 40g of WW, and 80g of water). It really should more than double if i...
Tangzhong/water roux method questions.. so I read about this Tangzhong or water roux method where u first cook 1 part flour 5 part water to a paste n cold before use.. So my question here is ..can I use this in any of my current existing recipe ?for example a certain recipe of mine uses1300g flour710 ml water..so if I ...	Ar nvm found my answer Ar nvm found my answer already I guess Let’s say your original recipe calls for 10 oz of flour (for easy math purposes) and 7 oz of water and you want to substitute tangzhong for 10% (again, for easy math purposes) of the total weight of the flour, or 1 ounce. (10 oz x .10 (or 10%)=1 oz).Multiply...
Hamelman sourdough seed bread - too dense, please help My favorite sourdough bread is Hamelman sourdough seed bread, which was the first sourdough bread I ever made, and the best since then. I found it hard to get the big bubbles and an open crumb this wonderful bread should have (in the past, when I lived in the US I ...	The recipe And a breakdown of your method would help. Far too many variables. You mention difficulty in getting steam into your oven. One reason might be that the bread crusts over too quickly inhibiting oven spring.
Starter Basics Now that I have my rye starter active, I've switched to a bread flour for a smoother texture in the final loaf. It makes tasty sourdough bread, but which type of flour is recommended at this stage for the best overall results? I assume the protein ratio of the flour used for the starter culture will have...	It depends ... like so much making bread, it will depend on what you want to achieve.I keep 3 separate starters; wheat, spelt and rye, but am considering dropping the spelt and using rye - but just a little then build a starter with spelt then make the loaves with spelt. Andrew Whitley puts forward a case for just keep...
Interviews with Suas, Sullivan, Robertson, Frainier (Semifreddi's) I just ran across this video, made by Puratos, called San Francisco Sourdough Bread. Interesting details from all the subjects: Suas is using Kamut, Robertson modifies his starter on an ad hoc basis, Sullivan treats SD as the standard and looks for bala...	Great Video Thank you for posting this.. I really enjoyed it! My problem when traveling to one of these places is that there's too much bread to try and taste!!
I've been studying and now I'm really excited. I'm trying a no knead sourdough. My starter has been a monster the last few days, consuming everything I threw at it.I'm going for more of an artisan look with this loaf. The plan is to cut it up for some sammiches and nobody is allowed to care about any holes their mayonn...	Well, transferring it to the Well, transferring it to the dutch oven proved to be a disaster. I'm expecting a flat disc to come out. :(
Not sour sourdough? Hi guys, can someone advise please as to why my sourdough starter does not smell 'tangy' hence my loaves turn out "not very sour"?	A bit more info On your Starter and how you use it in your baking will help.What flour/s is your Starter made from?What hydration is your Starter?How often do you feed it?How much do you use in a recipe?
Starter vs yeast for artisan type breads? Before I venture into the land of starters I have some questions. Normally I bake the four ingredient bread.... flour, water, yeast and salt to mimic the artisan style. Therefore my question pertains to this 4 ingredient recipe which I really enjoy eating.As a relatively new ba...	Waiting for the Big Guns to weigh in on this but I fear the answer would fill volumes.I just made my first sourdough after baking breads recreationally for almost 50 years so I can't speak with any authority, but commercial yeast leavens the dough with little flavor compared to the natural acidity of the wild beasties ...
Help! Flat Tartine Loaves Hey there!I'm new to this forum because I have been having the same issues with my Tartine loaves! I've been a Tartine sourdough bread baker for about a year now. I usually will get a starter going for about a couple weeks, bake the bread, and then disregard the starter and restart all again a...	Some more info might help For instance, how much starter are you using relative to flour? What's the hydration of your starter? Do your loaves mainly come out flat because they spread or because they don't rise? Have you baked other loaves using your starter that didn't go flat? As for keeping starter, if you make a st...
I may be asking the impossible I'm brand new to the forum but not brand new to sourdough. However there are many people with much more experience.I've had my starter for several years. It's an active happy starter that I keep at 100% hydration.My starter is very good with tang. In just 8 hours it could produce risen do...	temperature I believe that the best way to maximize yeast growth over bacteria to make a less sour bread is controlling your temperature. Maintaining a temperature of around 75˚ will accomplish this. You can read more about it here.
New to sourdough with questions Hi there!I hope you will bear with a newbie who's struggling a bit. I started making sourdough in the summer, and have had varying degrees of success. But I'm finding a particular struggle with hydration. Forgive me if I get the lingo wrong, but...One recipe I have had the best success w...	Tracy, in a nutshell - Yes “ Do I just have to find the optimum hydration level for me, based on my flour, climate, etc.?”Yes…What flour are you using?If you want to pursue higher hydrations, that’s fine. But realize that it is not necessary for baking great breads.
sour dough recipe to fit my schedule Can anyone assist with a sour dough loaf formula that I can do during the week around my work scheduleI work a pretty regular week, and am out of the house between 08:30 and 6 pm. I am really struggling to find a recipe for a great sough dough loaf that I can do during the week. Al...	There are many ways Here is one idea...In the morning before you go to work build your starter and allow to bubble up through the day.Just before bed make the dough and bulk ferment overnight.In the morning shape into banneton or loaf tin and refrigerate till you get home. Finish off the final proof when you get home a...
I wanted to say ty succeeded in making my own sour dough loafs After stalking these forums for a while I finally succeeded in making my wheat sour dough loaf, after various issues with getting my starter going and figuring out how to preferment and proper amounts of starter in mix, alleviate and proof and how to prope...	Those look like great frist sourdough breads to me. Well done andHappy SD baking
More taste due to long fermentation times? Hello,I have some thoughts about peaople saying longer fermentation times gives more bakterias than shorter fermentation times. I do not understand this statement because of:1. Up to a certain temperature (hot) lactobacillus and yeast are equal fast. So if you use a fridge for...	Re: More taste... I don't make sourdough, so I can only comment on yeasted breads, but long fermentation brings out more of the flour's flavour, which I imagine is also the case with sourdough. How much of that flavour can be detected under the taste of the starter is another matter and it's one reason I prefer 'sweet'...
Please help me wake up my starter Hello all,I created my own starter abou 8-9 years ago using flour, water and time. I baked successfully from it then, but then we had building work done and it got put to the back of the fridge for a long time. Difficult to say how long but at least 2, maybe more, years of neglect ...	My two cents My advice is patience. If the starter in the fridge still smells good, and you got at least some rise from it in your second loaf, I'd go back to that starter and feed it every 12 hours until you get a good doubling of the volume once or twice before using it again. Not sure what percentage your starter i...
Can you rescue dough if it's risen too far? I let my multigrain sourdough rise overnight a second time in a cold section of the house, but it did a little too well and overflowed the proofing basket. I gently reshaped and put it in a round ceramic pan to get it ready to bake, but I don't know if it has enough to feed ...	Not much you can do... ...except hope it will rise again. Which will have happened, or not, by now I imagine.The only alternative I can think of would be to start again and use it as pâte fermentée.
Sourdough and hoagies So the bakery i just started working wants sourdough bread. I tired a recipe and wasn't happy with the result at all. The bread came out dense and almost raw looking. I think i didn't let the dough proof long enough and wasn't at a high enough temp. Is all sourdough bread more of a denser bread co...	Right Up Your Alley Try David's take on hoagies here. It's a take off a recipe in the "Bread Baker's Apprentice". Search with "Sourdough Hoagies" for a complete listing on the subject.Sourdough provides the taste and commercial yeast the rise for most hoagie type recipes.Wild-Yeast
My first Sourdough starter. (Need advice) I started my first Sourdough starter and added organic grapes wrapped in cheesecloth on October 23rd. <!--break--> Its first feeding was four days later. My friend’s 16 year old son died the next day. <!--break--> I returned home today (11/1) and the starter has a milkshake lik...	re: My first Sourdough starter I'm very sorry for your loss. Sixteen should be the start, not the end. Peace be with you and your friend.As to your starter, if it shows activitey and smells good, I'd feed it and see what happens. If it shows mold or smells funky, I would start over. Be patient.I would suggest that you ...
That hollow feeling Hi all, I just joined the site and am eager to learn more about my recent bread baking hobby. I was hoping someone here could help me troubleshoot an issue I'm having this season (I only bake in the fall and winter) with my sourdough boules. As can be seen in the picture, they are coming out with th...	What hydration is your dough? What hydration is your dough? It is possible that while folding your boule in your final step you are using too much flour because the dough is sticky. If it is the case, your are creating layers in your dough that actually delaminate while rising. One solution would be to do the exact opp...
Good books on starter/leavan management Hi all, Can anyone provide a good intermediate to advanced book or resource on starters?I love Tartine and FWSY by Forkish, they are both wonderful launching points. Hammelman's Bread book is good too, but I am looking for something that really dives deeper into natural starters...	Bread Science http://www.amazon.com/Bread-Science-Chemistry-Craft-Making/dp/0977806804
Can I teach an old starter new tricks? I have a Sunset Magazine starter that I made from yogurt and white flour in 1972 and have been feeding on milk and flour ever since, though not very often lately, since I became vegan about 8 years ago. I do feed it every few months and use it for recipes where I can "veganize" t...	re: Can I teach an old starter new tricks Hi sharronsuss and welcome.First, congratulations on keeping a starter alive since 1972.Coincidentally, that was the very same year I lost my veganity (chuckle, chuckle).I would suggest that you could (within reason) make the conversion. However, I think there would always be a...
Buckwheat Sourdough Based on this recipe...Overall Recipe: 500g wholegrain buckwheat flour350g water10g salt2 medium size eggs2 tablespoons olive oil2 tsp psyllium husk powder1 tablespoon brown rice flour starter (refreshed) Method:Preferment 500g wholegrain buckwheat flour, 350g water + 1 tablespoon starter. Once rise...	Looks great Abe! Maybe not Looks great Abe! Maybe not as tall as you’d like but still looks like a good rise. Did you toast the buckwheat flour?During the kneading, what were you looking for to know it was ready?
Panettone How often should you refresh a pasta madre/lievito? I've seen suggestions from 12-24hrs. Ive also seen somewhere that says every 4-6 hours. I feed my regular sourdough (1:1:1) every 12 hours. It is my understanding that the higher the hydration, the more often you should refresh a sourdough. The lievito I am ...	Lievito Madre Is low hydration fed 1:0.5:1 every few hours till you get a strong yeasty starter.Maintenance and prepping for a bake will differ. At this hydration it can certainly be fed further apart but preparing for a bake it'll be every 3-4 hours. That is my very limited understanding. For a more in-depth explanati...
Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble ... Took a time-lapse video of the sourdough starters building today. The video started about half an hour after I mixed them all up and ended when the battery ran out on my camera - which was only about half an hour before I used them. IMGP7854 Video of IMGP7854 The video oug...	He he... neat. He he... neat.
Help my non-sour sourdough Hi All, I've signed on to get help with my sourdough bread. A while ago I decided to develop a new hobby, and teach myself to make great sourdough bread. I have been learning all the tricks, and you should have seen my last loaf...it was a thing of beauty. I cook in an old cast iron dutch ov...	Crumby, if you post the Crumby, if you post the recipe, you will probably get more help. I have found that longer fermentation with lower amounts of starter yield a more sour tang. I am still playing around, but have also found that the flavor changes with time. The loaf that I made on Sunday was okay on Sunday, b...
Is this preferment a 'Sponge' or a 'Poolish' ? Is this preferment a 'Sponge' or a 'Poolish' ?http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/rusticbread	I think you fill find many I think you fill find many opinions on that question. I personally think the post has it right it is a preferment. There are not percentages agreed to on what makes it any specific name. If it is important you can take one any of the current authorities say and run with that. I often see a ...

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