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Starter not rising as high as before Good morning, everyone :-) I've had a starter I've been maintaining with once a day feedings. I hold back 4 oz and feed with 4 oz of water and 4 oz of flour. It is about 2 months old and have been rising (sometimes tripling) and falling quite predictably. However, this morning, I no...	Try a feeding of... 1:2:2 or 1:3:3 [now i'm going to take 1 oz as 30g for whole numbers]Hold back 18g and feed it 36g water + 36g flourORHold back 12g and feed it 39g water + 39g flour See how that fares. And can I ask if you bake everyday?
Weird textured starter Help! Back at around the end of March, I had made a starter using Debra Winks pineapple juice method, + whole wheat flour. At some point in time, I decided to turn it into a rye starter. Within the past month or so, I've been trying to convert a small blob of it back into a whole wheat starter, j...	Can you narrow down the funny smelling aroma? You might do better starting a whole wheat starter from scratch. Now that you've done it before it will go easier and less stressful. Also what kind of schedule is the rye starter and the blob on? Can you feed the blob (no discarding) more ww flour and let it just si...
Some peer-reviewed sourdough research papers I missed out on yesterday's "prove it's sourdough" dispute, but, for future reference, here are a few peer-reviewed research papers forum members can safely refer to. I suspect that because, as you all know, sourdough cultures are the product of an ancient and well-understoo...	Also this book is available though expensive "Handbook on Sourdough Biochemistry" http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4614-5425-0
Pain Au Levain ! Hello all! If we have not yet met online yet, I am a former chef & hand craft true brick ovens in Dallas. As I grew up in France, my family has owned and operated a wood-fired oven for well over a century. As a matter of fact, my family still uses the original village wood-fired oven today. We used it ...	Nice to meet you Antoine you have quite a history and look forwarding to watching your blog!
Baking with dry starter GreetingsDoes anyone here bake with a dry starter?Today, I stumbled upon this french-sourdough-bread-from-a-powdered-starter-recipe at KAF website, which uses a powdered starter they sell online here. It comes in a tiny pack that contains 5g, enough for making 12 sourdough loaves.The idea caught...	My Sister bakes with dried starter and she loves it.She buys her in a supermarket in Germany though and the packets are larger, I think 50g.I shall ask her how much she uses per loaf and if she uses yeast with it.She is happy with the loafs, they turn out beautifully.
1-2-3 Bulk fermentation I've been lurking (much to my benefit) on these forums for a while, so I should thank you all for the wealth of advice and insight, but this is my first post.Now that I've been working with sourdough (and my starter) with some success for a few months, I wanted to try the 1-2-3 sourdough that ap...	bulk fermentation Your process seems fine to me. 4-6 hours for 123 formula shouldn't take it beyond the limit. Id look closer at the final proofing!Perhaps 90minutes at 71 degrees is too much.Try autolysing just the flour and water for 30 minutes.Add levain and salt, incorporate and knead till full gluten formation.Bul...
Please help.. Pasta Madre can’t roll it smooth Hi all,I recently started my first Pasta Madre since mid-Oct and here is how I start from scratch : wrap with cloth for day 6-14 and kept in 18C wine fridge including one “washing” per day. Feed 1:1:0.35since last week I start to refresh once a day in 28C for four hour and...	Lievito troppo forte Hi Gladys,It appears your LM has become too strong / too acid (high TTA), over fermented and too oxidative.A refresh at 28°C using a 1:2 (lievito:flour) ratio and letting it triple before feeding again should bring it back into line...Cheers,Michael
Help appreciated - first attempt and doubting all is well I could use some experienced advice right now. (this is my first time...)Today is Day 6. I would just like to know if my starter is safe to use if it revives.It was made with 3oz weight each Rye & water. On Day 2 it already doubled, but no sour smell. On Day 3 l...	Sounds normal This sounds normal for a starter that has not had the benefit of the "pineapple juice" treatment. Pineapple juice makes the pH low so that the desired organisms can thrive. You may find an unpleasant odor developing due to "leuconostoc" bacteria, but this will disappear with time and the desired lactob...
My starter smells! I just recently found this site and this is my first posting. I've discovered some really talented and inspirational bakers! So now I'm inspired! I created a sourdough starter using the pineapple method. It's been three weeks now. I've been feeding it almost twice daily for the last week and a half b...	acrid or acidic? A healthy starter is going to smell like very strong vinegar and that's a good thing, because it indicates the acidity of the sponge, which should be somewhere around 4.0 - 4.5 pH. Bubbles will indicate yeast activity.If the starter smells sulfurous and/or rotten, it's gone bad, so get rid of it and st...
My first bake with new starter I'm so excited! My starter is thriving and I just baked two loaves of a beautiful seeded sourdough. It's a recipe I used to use in my wood oven but it has been about four years since I last made this bread. Today, I baked it in my home electric oven. I don't have my bannetons as they...	Congrats! Glad things are working out - a seeded sourdough is my favorite.
can you judge doneness of bread by oven smell? GreetingsI wonder if anyone determines when a bread is done in the oven judging from the smell in the kitchen?I noticed that few minutes after that wonderful smell, it kind of disappears and a bit of burning smell shows up instead. Is that a sign that once the awesome smel...	Oven smell is a result of volatile organics... coming out of the loaf and surely one cannot divine whether the bread is done by the smell. I get the wonderful fragrance during the first fifteen minutes of any bake using steam and for sure the bread is not done at that point. The only reliable way is to use an instant...
Is there a "recovery period" for starters after using some of it? This is probably a dumb question, but yesterday I took 117g from my ~160g of starter to use in baking bread. I've fed it twice since then and now I have ~150g. Is there a period of waiting for my starter to develop again before I can use some of it to ba...	Starter should be used at the Starter should be used at the peak of its rise, it is also fed at the peak of its rise, usually an active starter will peak after being fed in 8 hours. The reason for this is that the yeasts and LB would have been multiplying. Adding prior to this may lead to a slower dough as the proporti...
why is this so flat this is mostly ww with maybe 10 rye proofed over night 18 hours at 65-70f folded a bout 5 times at 3 hour intervesafter 1 st proof folded ans shapes 2 hours in bowl at room temp 2 hours in the frigwhen I put it in the dutch oven at 550f it just flattened out (lowered to 450f with lid on ) for 20 m...	Bulk Fermented for 18 hours!?Seems very long unless retarding at the BF stage.What's the recipe?
What happened to my loaf? I just tried to make the Tartine sourdough again, and this resulted. Some things to note, I only did two stretch and folds during the bulk fermentation and promptly stuck it in the fridge. I pulled it out of the fridge this morning after about 13 hours, did a couple stretch and folds as it did...	Try 4 S&F's during bulk and then one more 2 hours into the retard. Then warm up pre-shape and then shape for final proof, That should help. You just need some more experience with this recipe.Happy Baking
loaves too dark GreetingsI make sourdough sandwich loaves every other day. They're fine and my family loves to eat them. However, the loaves come out dark, so they don't eat the edges. I tried reducing the baking time. I now bake them at 180c (350F) for only 45 minutes, yet the sides and top are still dark brown. If I ...	My first suggestion, not My first suggestion, not knowing what type of oven you're using, would be to rearrange the racks. I usually bake my sourdough loaves on the bottom rack of my oven, which gives me a beautifully colored crust.
double the reciepe ? if I double the recipe for my no kneed ww and rye do I also double the starter or is the original enoughI doubled the amount of rye to get a more rye flavor and decreased the ww by equal an amount but it was very dry so I needed to increase the water to get the dough to feel right , It is sittin...	Double double If you double a recipe, you double everything!
Boule vs Baguette Hi everyone, I've been baking a lot of sourdough bread lately and I usually shaped them into either a boule or baguette form. Though I noticed that the baguettes are having better oven springs compared the boule. What gives? I am using a 100% hydration starter here. Many thanks in advance....	Assuming the exact same Assuming the exact same recipe, it seems it has to be how you are forming them. That your baguettes are getting more tension.
Help for gummy sourdough bread I tried sourdough bread several times and got same result over and over.Homemade starter, passed floating test.500 gram flours, 75% water, 15% sourdough starter,2% salt50/50 all purpose white flour /whole grain flour4 hours proof around 90°F, half hour per shape Pre heat oven, put dough i...	For a panned bread, 75% hydration is on the high side. You might want to experiment with reducing the hydration to something in the 65-70% range.Or, go with a longer bake at a lower temperature to drive out more of the moisture without burning the bread.Or, remove the loaf from the pan at the end of the bake, switch o...
Using starter for bokashi Have you used starter discard as an inoculant for bokashi?Bokashi is a method of preparing food scraps for composting. Unlike regular composting, it can process dairy, meat, and bones. The only catch is, you have to add “Effective Microorganisms” to the food scraps. You can buy them (of course...	My guess is... no There is a huge variety of yeasts and bacteria. I would think the very nature of a sourdough starter is only yeasts and bacteria that are able to propagate a starter will do so. So while there is a big variety within starters they won't be a good home for all species. They are geared for carbohydrates...
Favorite bread for weekday breakfast or lunch? There are so many recipes I'm tempted to try, but I can only finish one or two breads per week since I don't know who I can share these breads with yet... Most of my friends would love cake or other pastries, but probably not bread without sugar or butter. So my question i...	mine Check your mail for mine.Ford
loaf losing volume at oven hi there experts.why did my loaf "drop" while being baked?i did a 50/50 spelt/rye loaf (rye sourdough), fermented 10 hours in a pan, then baked for a bit more than an hour (25 minutes on 410, 40 minutes on 375). it came of the oven 2/3 of its height.	It would be helpful if you gave a bit more info on your technique and Recipe.
Same starter but looking different Hi everyone! Does anyone have an idea why these two starters of mine look sort of different?	But are the same? Same flour + water but are they fed exactly the same?Are you feeding both the same ratios? For example 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 or 1:3:3Are they at the same stage of fermentation?Are they kept at the same temperature? P.s. when you said different I was expecting... well, different ;)
adding rye to whole wheat starter I add rye flour to my ww flours when making whole grain sourdough is there any point in adding rye flour in with my ww when feeding my starter (Larry)	My understanding is there is My understanding is there is none. In an active starter, the yeast and bacteria you need should be present and thriving. Adding rye flour just adds more. There is no benefit flavor-wise. The flavor in the bread comes from the fermentation stage.
Mild Sourdough Hello. I've been coming here for awhile to look for bread advice but this is my first time posting. For that I thank you all.I'm new to Sourdough. I just baked these two loaves of Tartine Country Bread. The sour taste was a bit mild. It's there, but I have to search for it. I think it's because I started...	Welcome!! Beautiful loaves and nice scoring.What is your starter recipe??Typically starters don't have much to do with how sour your loaf will be. It's just a natural leavening agent. Sourness is more dependent on a longer fermentation process, and the different grains that you are using. Like say a cold retard in a f...
Back to basics. A 100% hydration starter?? What does it mean? Hello everybody. So funny how sometimes you just need clarity on some of those first lessons that your learn, especially about starters. So here is my question:Is maintaining a 100% hydration starting a 1/1/1 ratio. Being equal parts starter/flour/water?So i...	Grams of water / grams of Grams of water / grams of flour = hydration %.If the system is always the same, then whether you do 100/100/100 or 100/50/50, you'll have 100% hydration starter. The decision between the two seems to be a question of waste. I have seen opinions, but no evidence, that 100/100/100 makes for a ...
room temperature vs cold fermentation GreetingsIn no-knead sourdough bread recipes, some call for 24h or more of cold fermentation, while others call for slow 12-18h fermenting in room temperature. I'm interested in a comparison between both methods, and how it affects flavor and texture of the bread. Please share your...	Differences There will be a difference in the flavour. A longer retarded bulk fermentation will be more sour then a shorter room temperature fermentation.12-18 hours at room temperature will be very flavoursome anyways. As this is already a long bulk fermentation. I think there will be a difference but you'll find it m...
At what dough volume increase do you proceed? GreetingsI've read that when fermenting, a 50% increase in volume is optimal for oven rise than waiting until the dough doubles or triples. I tried it today, and was surprised that the oven rise was huge, much better than when I let the dough doubles or triples in volume.Di...	Oven Spring The make or break for oven spring is in the final proofing.With bulk fermention you give the dough time to be inoculated by the starter and develop flavour. One can go straight into final proofing and take the dough to the optimum stage for a good oven spring or one can incorporate a bulk fermentation and t...
Ratios and Liquids question on starting sourdough Hi!I've been reading a lot and i'm getting confused...I'd like to start a fresh starter and I have the following doubts:1) Is there a big difference between using water and pineapple juice?2) I've seen methods using 1:1 ratio on flour and water, 2:1, and 3:1... Although...	Starter In answer to your questions: there are many ways to get a starter going. Pick the one you like. But, to take your questions :1) Pineapple juice will get you started faster, because it adjusts the pH of the liquid to one that that the lactobacteria and the yeast prefer. Search the "pineapple solution" in the...
When to stretch and fold GreetingsI use my sourdough starter to bake sandwich bread every other day. I first refresh the starter and build the quantity I need at the same time, then mix the final dough and bulk ferment for 3 hours, during which I stretch and fold every 30 minutes. Then retard in the fridge for 24h.My q...	Develop the gluten before retarding.
Feedback? - 1st time high hydration I typically stay in the 70-75% hydration range with my weekly bakes. This week, I had been doing some reading here (literally) and there, and decided I wanted to try out a recipe with an autolyse. Setting aside for the moment why I didn't just autolyse the flour in my usual recipe ...	I'm no expert.The starter I'm no expert.The starter composition seems overly complicated to me, and a high ratio of feeding in a short time, but I just do a simple 100% hydration rye. Not sure why gluten is added to it. But you may have reasons for all those things.For your fresh milled flour, what do you do with the b...
whole wheat vs whole wheat bread flour what is the difference in the sour dough bread I make I have been using ww but now my supermarket also has ww bread flour the ww has 15 gm protien the ww bread flour has 16 gm how would that effect the raise and the crumb	Chewier Generally, the more gluten, the chewier the bread.
switching from ap flour to whole wheat ? I have been baking a no kneed sourdough with 90% ap flour and 10% rye I want to switch this to ww and rye what do I need to do ? do I need to make a ww starter , or rye starter ? do I use the same weights as with the ap ?do I proof and bake for the same time ?	Only slight changes I would recommend increasing the hydration by 1 or 2% to allow for the extra need by the bran of the whole wheat. I would also recommend a slightly longer autolyse or bulk rise to let the whole wheat absorb the moisture. Perhaps you might consider substituting only half of the AP flour with whole ...
what did I do wrong baking sour dough Larry( (that is the sour dough I bough off e bay) floated when I put some in water so I thought it was ready to go this is the recipe I used 77g starter26g rye193g white4-5g oil4-5g salt150g waterteaspoon caraway seeds I used the no kneed method I proofed for 6 hours at room temp...	Some questions @mickeyk44 First, thanks for all of the information that you did provide about recipe and process. That's a great start. Questions that I'm still curious about include:What was the hydration of the starter?What was the room temperature, approximately?Did the shaped dough hold its shape? Or did it turn...
Sourdough Ciabatta ok. i've been making ciabatta using instant yeast for some time with great success. this is my first attempt at making a sourdough version. i order some sourdough starter culture (dried) from breadtopia and have been growing the starter for about 4 days. I looks lively and just about ready to use. ...	If you use 15% prefermented flour in the levain just about every recipe works when it comes to SDHappy Baking
Am I overfeeding my starter? Hi so first post here, this site has been awesome for me in my endeavors into sourdough and artisan breads but I haven't been able to find a thread that specifically nails down some of my questions thus far... here goes:I'm in the middle of my second attempt at a sourdough culture and I've ...	It is common for a SD Culture to go lifeless during day 4-6. That is a very good sign and not one that it is dead. The first few days of activity is the wrong and bad LAB and yeast acting bad. As the culture get more acidic the good LAB and yeast will start taking over on Day 4 but not really get going until day 6 ...
Silly starter question I started a 100% Rye starter almost three weeks ago and it has been acting beautifully! I feed it a couple times a day using a 1:1:1: ratio. It will double in size after about four hours consistently, usually tripling after about 8-12. It very slowly falls after that. I've used it to make bread t...	Bulk and proof times? I'm pretty new at SD, but I immediately wonder how long your bulk ferment and proof were. You say you proofed "the entire day" at 76, which isn't specific, and don't mention BF at all. I'd guess your dough was over-proofed.
After refreshing, when should it be back to fridge? GreetingsAfter years of failed attempts, I've finally managed to make an active and working starter. Thanks for this wonderful forum and your generous help all the way.Now I have a question: when should the starter be put in the fridge:is it right after feeding it?or ...	I put mine in when it just I put mine in when it almost doubled.Mine is a 80% hydration starter.I used a 50% hydration starter but the kneading was not so good when my arthritis in my hands flares up.80% hydration gives me exact the same sourness that the 50% hydration starter did so all is good.Right now I have mine o...
Did I ruin my starter with Wild Hive flour? What went wrong? I've been baking artisan bread (using Ken Forkish's recipes) with a Levain for a few months now and haven't really had any problems until yesterday when I think I may have ruined my starter with some new flour.Before today I've been exclusively using King Art...	can't see how a type of wheat flour Can ruin a starter. I would suggest taking a little of what you have left and feeding it your regular flour but this time making it a low hydration and seeing what happens.Do you build 100s of grams Forkish recommends and discard a lot each time?
Storing sourdough starter short & long term I’ve been baking bread nearly every week at home for more than 10 years now. After several failed attempts to get a sourdough starter going I finally was successful about 18 months ago. After feeding my starter nearly every day for the first 6-8 weeks and making several suc...	Sourdough Pioneer! It is wonderful that you did this. I wouldn't have the "gumption" to manage an orderly project for over a year, so I doubly appreciate what you did. Also, I haven't seen any similar organized test like this in my reading on the subject. It's a real contribution to those of us whose temperaments and l...
VERY basic questions I have tried to change to 100% sourdough starters for my whole wheat breads but am getting VERY frustrated. I am trying to make 100% whole wheat (red fife ground fresh from the berries). I start my starter from the mother at night plus I soak the dough (water, salt, sprouted wheat, and lately a...	Just some thoughts 1. No need to autolyse for longer than 30 minutes. Not really anything to do with the issue but just thought I'd address that.2. Will be easier to answer if you post your recipe and method.
what breads convinced you to return to commercial yeast? For the last few years I have baked sourdough breads only. My cultures are thriving and my breads are terrific but I find myself wondering what commercial yeast breads I'm missing. So, I'm curious to hear from sourdough bakers which yeast breads you choose to b...	Baguettes & brioche Baguettes & brioche
making starter problems, day 4 Hi everyone, I have been making starter using this method:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10251/starting-starter-sourdough-101-tutorial . This afternoon it will be 2h after I have done Day 3 additions. After day 3 additions, my strter has grown rapidly. Within 12h it has grown more then ...	Give it 5 or 6 more days. Give it 5 or 6 more days.
Bubbles but no rise So a few months ago I started another round of starter, my 4th one. On the upside this one's still alive and not completely funky. So I uses the pineapple liquid start, I did one rye, and one whole grain multi which is switching to a white (I grind my own flour). So after running the week w...	Why don't you feed your starter 1:1:1? So feed your 20g of starter with 20g flour + 20g water.This is a healthier feed. The ratio of fresh flour (food) will be greater and it'll rise more.
How to go from 4 oz starter to enough to bake bread tomorrow I've got a starter ready for breadmaking I believe. For a week or more I fed 2oz starter with 1 oz water and 1 oz flour. Last night I did not throw out any of the starter so I had 4 oz starter, and added 2 oz water 2 oz flour. Today in volume I have 1 cup ...	It depends on how much bread you are baking but a rough rule of thumb is to have 15% or so of the flour be pre-fermented. So if there is 1,000 g of flour total in the finished dough, then 150 g would be in the levain. At 100% hydration like your levain, the levain would weigh 300 g total.
Help me understand proofing. OK, so, this has been on my mind for awhile now, but I simply do not understand the process of bulk fermentation. I've been making the Norwich Sourdough for quite awhile now, and have followed the instructions blindly to what has been written down. However I would like to know why during th...	The adjustments I use, based The adjustments I use, based on the Gaenzle study of yeast and lactobacillus activity is below. I use 65F as my basis. So if that is 100% of normal time to ferment, the adjustments are: 40F992%45F613%50F381%55F239%60F152%65F100%70F69%75F50%At 75F it takes about half as long. At ~56F it t...
How to create a starter in the tropics hi, I am looking into ways to create a starter by using only rye flour and water (no yeast at all). I live in the tropics with an indoor temperature of 28-30 degree celcius,constantly! Thanks in advance	In the tropics? Well you have an advantage there. Nice and warm.Here is a good video for the procedure. You can use just rye if you wish.http://youtu.be/SuU0xmqEZyI
Starter issues I recently bought a sourdough starter kit... I followed the instructions exactly and it's been about a week.. So far my starter looks really good but seems very thin... I just started my adventures into breads a few months ago so I asked a friend if my starter looked good.. She told me to try and bake wi...	Sourdough isn't like yeast bread After 2 hours of gluten development and a couple, threee hours of bulk ferment it might take another 5 hours of proof time or more with a 1 weak old starter that is way to young to make a decent loaf of bread.Patience leads toHappy SD baking
Retarding each sourdough starter refreshment... If retarding primary ferment develops beneficial flavored, why not retard each refreshment of a sourdough starter?In beer brewing, ferment control was the key. Part of which was keeping temps from swinging rapidly. It may have been desirable to change temps, but advised ...	Fridge... I've no idea about the bio-science, but my starters live in the fridge all the time. They're refreshed when I make bread (daily right now)It's good to be able to maintain ferment/prove temperatures - in-general the higher the sourdough ferment, the more acid is produced. 24C seems to be the "sweet spot" for m...
Increasing sourness with no-knead bread From what I've read, there are basically two approaches to increasing the sourness of sourdough: higher proofing temperature, and adding whole grains/rye.If I'm using the no-knead technique, doesn't that make the former more difficult? Part of the concept is letting time do your ...	I've been a bit confused about this Increasing the temperature speeds up the fermentation process and but I've always understood the longer the fermentation the more flavoursome.I think there's a few things at work here. What about less starter and longer fermenting for increased flavour?
Final Rise in Fridge....Loving It! So, my last two loaves, I have done the final rise in the refrigerator, and I am loving the results. I'm not seeing as much volume develop in the banneton, but I am getting great oven spring, and the crumb ends up more open than when I do my final rise at room temp. IMG_0472.JPG ...	I agree Rich, the cold rise I agree Rich, the cold rise in the fridge is wonderful, and one is more flexible also.I do a longer bulkferment at room temperature, about 6-8 hours and then shape and put the dough in the banneton and after that it is fridge for 12 hours.I find it much easier to score the loaf too. I use a ...
The names Blonde ... Sourdough Blonde. Is it just me or do others have odd names for their bread. I make these once or twice a week - just a white flour sourdough loaf. Seems to go down well.-Gordon	I never knew what to call I never knew what to call mine, since I only make one kind of bread. I settled for "country loaf," which hardly means anything, but people like it!
No discard RYE SD starter - progress Hi there, i wanted to share my rye starter success with you, since the other (feed&discard) attempts failed miserably, I turned to try this, no discard version.I started with 25g water/flour, kept adding 25g F&W, every 24hrs. On day 7 I took 50g and added another 25g water&flour. Di...	Excellent! Got a good starter going there and a very decent first sourdough. What I would do now is switch up the feed a bit and the final dough recipe. While it did you good to add a little feed everyday at the beginning stage what you will end up with is a lot of 'spent' (for want of a better word) starter. By spent ...
S&F Autolyse Long time lurker, first time poster.I've been working a recipe inspired by '36 hours+ sourdough baguette - everything I know in one bread', which is a nearly five year old post, but still inspiring. Thank you txfarmer.Of course, I'm doing my own spin but this is the first time I've done an extended autolys...	I find it harder to I find it harder to incorporate the starter and salt when the gluten is already well developed. I also don't think it is good to develop gluten in that way and then break it down by adding in starter and salt. Thirdly, I don't think it helps to have a long autolyse with white flour, but some have ...
No air holes in Tartine sunflower flaxseed bread This bread was one of the best breads I have ever tasted when I made it a month ago. The great complex taste made up for the lack of air holes in the finished loaf. I spent most of today making it again, but this time it didn't have the complexity of taste and it had no ...	not much to go on Can you give us the recipe?A 3.5 hour final rise for any dough sounds a bit too much.
How to speed proof a final dough GreetingsI've recently started using a sourdough starter in my pizza dough. The flavor is much better than before. But it takes more time to rise.I was wondering if there is a technique that I can use to accelerate the proofing time, including the steps for starter builds to increase it...	If I'm right about this... Your starter does two things but at different times. First and foremost, it provides yeast. Second, but this takes a much longer time, it provides the bacteria that ferment to make the sour taste. To make your bread rise faster and without the sour taste, you can simply do your bulk rise a...
Low oven spring in tartine bread I have tried baking the tartine sourdough bread several times, but I keep getting very low oven spring. I keep adjusting my times and technique, but have not really had success. Posting a representative bread here if anyone has suggestions. I keep a rye starter that I feed a 1:2:2 start...	Is the crust shiny and a little blistered? I can't tell clearly from the photos, but the loaf looks under-risen and/or cooked in a too-low oven, possibly with too much steam (hence the shine and blisters question). Did you do the finger-poke test on your final rise? it's a little slower to respond with a cold dough but...
WW Starter More Sour? I currently have a WW and a white/AP starter that I am maintaining. I use them alternately with the same 1-2-3 formula that is what I most commonly bake. I have noticed that my WW starter produces a more sour result than the white/AP starter. My preparation methods are pretty much the same each...	Nice boule Rich! I switched over to a 100% Whole Grain/Stone Ground Rye starter a few months ago and absolutely love it!! I do notice a much more pronounced flavor.I think it has something to do with the fermentation of the whole grains. Not sure, just taking a newbie guess.Time to do a bit of research to see what I ca...
newbee needs a good easy no kneed sour dough recipe best if at least part whole wheat or whole grain	No knead sourdough Check out this link.http://breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/
(Very Amateur!) Starter Question Hello!I have been baking sourdough loaves with a French starter bought online, I've kept it at 100% hydration by removing half of it (discarding it most of the time unfortunately) and adding 50g water and 50g regular Bob's Red Mill Unbleached Organic All-Purpose Flour every 24 hrs. I do...	Just build what you need the day before you need it, don't throw anything away and put it in the fridge after it rise 75%, hold back enough to feed for your own starter . Easy as pie, which is hard if you ask me.Happy Teaching
Converting white starter to rye Hello,For some reason I though this is covered in Hamelman's Bread, but can't find it... What steps should I take when converting portion of my white 100% starter to rye? Is it a simple matter of just feeding it for a couple of days with whole rye flour or should I start feeding it with ...	Take 10 g of your white starter and feed it 10 g of whole rye and 10 g of water. 4 hours later feed it 20 g of whole rye and 20 g of water.. 4 hours later feed it 40 g of rye and 40 g of water. This will give you 150 g of rye starter that will have just finished doubling at 100% hydration. Now you can take 10 g of t...
Sourdough bread tastes off, kind of tart / astringent Not sure how this taste translates, but there's a bit of a weird taste to my latest bread and I think it has to do with the flour I'm using and the expiry date... When looking for translations the Dutch word 'wrang' gives me sour, but it's more like tart / astringen...	Taste the flour ... Stoneground wholemeal flour has more oils in it than white flours and that's what can go rancid. Just try some flour - give it a good smell, then taste some - mix with water if you like.Wholemeal flours typically have a 6-month shelf-life. Keep them cool helps - some people freeze it.-Gordon
Starter bubbles, but minimal rise/white patch on top of bread? I have been baking exclusively with sourdough for about 7 years and had great success. A few times my starter has gone through a slump (usually after some mild neglect) where even if the starter itself is bubbling well after feeding, the dough never seems t...	starter three months is a long time. I've done the small feed followed by a big feed too. Start a new starter anyway. If you are missing some bacterial or specific yeast colonies, you will get them back sooner starting over. The "whiting of the loaf" might have more to do with physics. Some think it has to do ...
Community Bake - Maurizio's SD Baguettes - Everyone is Welcome We are baking Maurizio's Sourdough Baguettes. I am in the process of baking these baguettes for the third time. After test baking, I can say that the instructions and also the flavor of this bread is very good.Since most bakers are separated by many miles ...	Dan's Bakes I halfed the formula so that I only baked 3 loaves. The first bake I went with 90% Whole Foods AP flour. It is my understanding that Central Milling makes this. Their version is call Beehive flour. For the high gluten I elected KA Sir Lancelot @ 10%. I was very happy with the outcome. Still don't get great ...
stainless steel mixing bowl my kitchen aid mixer has a stainless steel mixing bowl , and I can't find my beater or dough hook only my stainless whisk can I use these to mix and ferment my sourdough with ?	You're going to want your dough hook Your whisk will not go far when making dough, its job is to incorporate air in light, liquid-ey stuff like egg whites or cake batter. If your attachments are truly missing, there must be orphaned attachment adoption resources out there... Someone with contacts will come along this w...
Glass jar with starter in broke... how to rescue the starter The rim of the glass jar containing my sourdough starter cracked today when I tried to put the lid back on and a couple of glass shards came off on to the work surface. I am concerned there may be some glass chips in the actual sourdough but it's impossibl...	I wouldn't take a chance. I wouldn't take a chance. Regardless of how good the starter is, do you really want to risk having broken glass in the bread? I'd say throw it all out, and start over. Better safe than sorry.
WAKING DRIED STARTER QUESTION I just got my dried starter that I ordered from e bay , Its called Larry from the mining camps near San Fransisco and the instructions say to keep it in an oven at 100f for 5 days to get it started my oven does not go down that low and the light does not work if I keep it on the counter a...	yeah that's fine Don't know what instructions they've given you but my recent attempt at reviving a homemade dried starter was successful at room temperature. With no instructions at all I just added some boiled water which was cooled to room temperature and stirred till fully incorporated. Then I fed it 1:1:1 by weigh...
Did I over-knead my starter? GreetingsAfter years of failures, for the first time I have succeeded in developing a sourdough culture. I started it 5 days ago. Here is the formula that I'm following:Day 1:40g plain yogurt40g flourDay 2:leave it as is for another 24hDay 3~16:40g dough40g flour20g waterI'm using pizza whi...	kneading starter... I just stir my starter until the new flour and water is incorporated. It is not a kneadable density. Perhaps you should increase the hydration level of your starter. I don't think vigorous kneading would kill bacteria or yeast….they're very resilient little critters. The yeast activity in your ...
what to bake in I want to do a no kneed sourdough bread , but my only cast iron ditch oven is only 4 inches high (12"x 12") I have an aluminum one , an old mirro brand from my mother in law (1940's)I also have a crock pot (slow cooker) but the company says oven safe up to 400f I could use the cast iron bottom and use t...	Aluminum DO Does your aluminum DO have any plastic (or other non-aluminum) parts that could be vulnerable to high heat? If not, then it seems like a reasonable candidate to bake your bread. For that matter, if your cast iron lid provides a bit of clearance, 4+-inches, may be workable, too. Be careful of using glass (ev...
First Time Sourdough Attempt - Need Help Hi All,First just want to say what a lovely resource this site is, thank you. I keep reading up on starters and feedings, etc. but I'm not sure if it's because I hated math class, but I'm getting super confused on hydration levels, etc. (I know it's super easy for others, don'...	Some thoughts from my end I was reading about your starter feeding and you're working in big batches and tossing a lot compared to what I'm doing here. If I'm not baking, I toss half of mine twice per day and then feed it 2:1:1. So, if it's 50 grams, I toss 25 and feed it 12,5 grams of flour, 12,5 grams of water. It mo...
Maggie Glezer firm sourdough starter not rising I am close to quitting trying to make a sourdough starter . For the last months, I have tried many recipes from baking experts like Reinhart, Sourdough Lady and Other and now from Maggie Glezer and each time my starter never rise enough to make decent bread. I am in the ...	There is the alternative... Buy one. Baking good sourdough is worth the price. (free to $16) online. Search TFL, there are many threads on the subject. David
Starter smells like latex paint My starter is about 3 or 4 weeks old and it started smelling like latex paint a few days ago. It was going really well. I had made crackers, a loaf with commercial yeast added, and pancakes. They all came out delicious. It's all-purpose flour, wild yeast from my house, and I've been feed...	DON'T DUMP YOUR STARTER! Phew got that off my chest. First of all here are some good practices when feeding your starter.1. Use bottled water or boiled water from the kettle cooled to room temperature.2. Give good feeds of 1:1:1 or greater. Lesser feeds will just increase the amount of spent flour and the starter will ...
Question about flours in sourdough starter Hi all,I started a sourdough seed/starter about 10 days ago following the instructions from Peter Reinhart's artisan bread every day. I though it was ready to make bread after a week, but it wasn't. I did quite a bit of search and reading and started feeding it almost twice da...	The starter will not rise much if the gas bubbles are rising and bursting on the dough surface. Thicken it up with more flour (or less water) and the starter will rise more.Usually rye ferments faster than AP but it takes more AP to make a thick enough starter to trap gas bubbles. Rye also had a tendency to form a th...
dough experiment I intentionally made a cake batter like sourdough and it's pretty weird looking with the top split off. I am curious how much liquid can you put in a dough before it can no longer function as a dough?	To some degree it depends on To some degree it depends on the flour being used, but here are some guidelines:Dough hydration @ 100% becomes like a thick batter.The higher the hydration (100%+), the thinner the batter will become. At 150%+, the batter will be very watery.
Just wanted to share my third attempt :) Hi everyone I wanted to share my third sourdough attempt and I'm always happy for suggestions so I can improve on my next attempts :) My first two were with my first, rye starter in the previous year. This year I've made a new starter, this time I'm feeding it with AP white flou...	Update - very uneven crumb Here's an update from today.I sliced another ..well, slice today, and found a huuuge cave in my bread. Judging by the colour and location, I'm guessing it's from my final shaping.Colour - I can see darker colour (I used buckwheat flour for dusting since I didn't have any rice flour) in "the c...
increasing stater for large batches of baking? Hi, I am wondering if anyone has recommendations for increasing a 100% hydration starter from its maintenance amount of 50 g to 10,000 g. I usually simply feed it every 8-12 doing a double or triple amount feeding until I get to the desired amount. While this works okay I ...	Seed a 10kg mixture with a Seed a 10kg mixture with a bloop of active starter and let it sit longer, like at least overnight.
Starter "Issue"...or not? So I've been using the same starter for years now. I keep it in the fridge, and feed it 2-3 times a day a few days before I need it (e.g. take it out of fridge Thursday for a weekend bake).Lately I feel like my starter has been "weak"...like, I'll do a float test to ensure it's ready, mix it w...	Starter... Flour?Hydration?Method?
Starter declining more and more... First off, Hi all and thanks for all the information found here which finally enabled me to get a working sourdough starter! Now to my issue: My starter's now almost 3 months old and has been very active and allowed me to bake awesome bread for a while. I've been keeping it at room te...	You have been feeding it Twice a day for 3 months? Are you a baker and/or do you bake every single day?
Adjusting Time When Changing Starter Percentage If you cut the amount of starter in the recipe by half, does that mean you have to double the amount of time for bulk fermentation? Does anyone have a formula for this kind of adjustment?	I'm interested too What you could do, if you have the time, is this...If the recipe gives you a guide that the dough should double with the bulk ferment then you can always go by waiting till it doubles. And then proceed onto the shaping and final proofing.Perhaps a little experiment?When working out ones own recipe yo...
Any reason to give up commercial yeast? Oh yes In case anyone is searching the freshloaf forum or hanging out, but too scared to try to begin a starter, or too disillusioned after a brief try, here's my intimate look about why to give up commercial yeast. Health, yes, but other reasons as well. Confidence is a big one...	Hmm.. I use commercial yeast for some recipes as well as my sourdough starters. Some just need it, especially sweet/enriched doughs - yes, I've seen sourdough hot cross bun, croissant, and even brioche made with sourdoughs, but they're just not the same IMO.However.. And I appreciate that this may not concern some fol...
No-knead sourdough; hot or cold oven? I've been making no-knead bread for quite a while now, starting what that famous NY Times article/recipe from Sullivan St Bakery and moving on from there.The one common element: putting the dough into an oven and heavy container that are both pre-heated.I was thus puzzled by this:h...	I'm also confused 1 cup fully active culture of your choice from the culture proof 3 cups (440 grams) all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting 1 cup water 1½ teaspoons saltThe Culture Proof Mix 1 cup of the fully active culture with 1 cup of flour and sufficient water to from a thick pancake batter consistency and ...
The newest of newbies and his rye bread experience Being VERY new to sourdoughs, it dawned on me that I’m at a phase that everyone must go through. As I’m sitting here letting my dough proof, I figured I’d document what I’ve done along the way in hopes that my success or failure can help others along the way. This is...	And the finished result... Well, good news/bad news time...Taste is fantastic, it definitely has that rye flavor and the bread spices definitely come through. Unfortunately, it is VERY dense. It works alright to put some butter over it and have with a bowl of hearty stew, but I tried using it for sandwich bread and i...
Starter newbie - troubleshooting request Hi everyone - I am new around here, but not new to bread. My grandma taught me to make bread (with dry yeast, hand kneading) about ten years ago, and since then I have made my own bread during periods where I have had time/space in my life for it, which has not been consistently...	Patience Things are going well, so far, but it will take another two weeks before your starter will be ready to make bread and another two weeks before it will be considered mature. I suggest that you mix your starter and take out two ounces by weight and to this add two ounces of pineapple juice and two ounces of all...
FWSY levain storage Hello,I must have had a brain fart moment earlier today - meant to mix up just enough FWSY levain to bake one recipe (2 breads), but instead ended up with enough for two (4 breads)...Has anyone tried storing extra levain in the fridge for an extra day or two? Or am I now committed to either throwing...	Yes Within the last couple of months I did the same thing. I basically supplemented the "spent fuel" as Forkish refers to it with more flour and water. I wasn't attempting to make a FWSY loaf - just use up the starter. Anyway once I added and mixed to a consistency I felt comfortable with, I carried on as normal. The...
Sourdough percentage to a mix Hello.I'm completely fascinated by the science of sourdough and how simple and effective it is in baking.Forgive me if this has been asked before, but I am having trouble finding out how much of a sourdough starter do you add to a bread mix.I'll give you a few examples:Recipe from a baker ...	It depends on a number of things, namely how you plan to bulk ferment/proof. more preferment means faster fermentation and also less complexity of flavor. regardless of your time frames 60+% seems crazy high and you could drop it down to 25 or 30% and still go from mix to bake in one day. I'v got one going now that has...
Autolyse vs Not Good morning folks,As most of you know I just created a sourdough starter about a month ago, this 100% hydration starter has been doing very well with a 2.5-3X rise in a jar daily, I feed it with 80% KA AP and 20% dark rye once a day, it peaks in about 6-8 hours and stay peaked for 3-4 hours before rece...	One difference is more water One difference is more water is soaked up by flour and whole wheat in autolyse vs not. So there is less free water available.Second difference then relates to combining starter with stiffer autolyse thoroughly vs. easier combination when more free water is available.One option is to add mor...
Is it possible to be too clean when creating starters? Is it possible to have things too clean when making a starter? I've tried to make a starter from scratch, twice now, and both times ended up with mold growing on the side of the jar. The first was just a water and flour starter, so no surprise there, but the second...	Try Debra Wink's Method Try Debra Wink's Method;http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2Her actual procedure is at the end of part 2.To answer your question, no the equipment cannot be too clean, but that means that anyt...
Bagels - Sponge vs retardation I have a question on retardation. My first and very recent bagel adventure was the very simple KAF recipe - no sponge. I'm a poolish guy in just about everything I do, but I stuck to the KAF method for simplicity - I was more focused on the now laughable concern over boiling. What took...	definitly retard the dough definitly retard the dough post-shape. Not only because this is traditional, but because it is much easier to work with dough when it is room temp vs. cold. I feel that the bagels will hold together better if they have been retarded post-shape, less floppy, and less likely to detatch themse...
When you have greedy hungry kids... ... you end up like me , preheating the blooming oven at 1.14am to finish 2 loafs of Sourdough bread. pfff MUM, I can not take NORMAL bread to work, it does not fill me up and it does not taste !Yeah, compliment, but pressure too, to get some bread done for the little boy * 26 years ...	You've spoiled them But it's your pleasure. That's what Mums do. You've given them a taste for finer things.
Adjusting a loaf size. http://www.wildyeastblog.com/my-new-favorite-sourdough/Hi everyone, been a long time since I've been on here, and baked a loaf of bread!I'm looking to bake the Norwich sourdough recipe this weekend, and would like to adjust the size of the recipe since I find it makes a couple loaves too many.I'm...	I would just half the recipe, I would just half the recipe, I do not think there is anything wrong doing it.
How to switch to SD white breads This is a two part question: 1) I am currently building a rye starter which I will keep going in the fridge with weekly feedings for future rye breads. However, since I am taking the time to build this, I'd like to enjoy the fruits of my labors as much as possible. How do I create a ...	Hi hanzsobm,you can easely Hi hanzsobm,you can easely convert part of your rye starter to a wheat starter.Take like 10g of rye starter and feed with 5g rye starter and 5g wheat starter and 10 gr water.Next feeding feed with 3g rye starter 7g wheat starter and 10g water until you feed with only wheat starter, you can al...
Sourdough collapsing I've been having some problems with my sourdough bread collapsing out of the banneton and before going into the oven. I've tried to address the problem by proofing less but it still seems to happen. I've added some photos of my latest bake.I'm getting good oven spring which seems to defy the overpr...	No bulk ferment? While I'm still very much a sourdough newbie, the first thing I notice is that the recipe seems to have no bulk ferment period. So, I can't help wondering if this is causing or at least contributing to you results.
Sourdough air pocket distribution problem Dear skilled bakers of TFL,I have been baking bread for around a year now (mainly flat bread). Recently, I have developed an interest in sourdough bread; and in the past month, I have attempted Tartine country bread a couple of times (4 times actually). My most recent bake was ...	Lots & Lots of Reasons?..., I'll venture a guess the uneven alveoli distribution is predicated upon uneven fermentation within the dough. Try mixing the water into the levain to thin it before adding the flour in the recipe - it will be more evenly distributed this way.The stainless steel mixing bowl in ice water may h...
No Oven Spring and Pronounced Sour Taste First of all I don't really mind the sour taste, in fact I like it. However, on my last attempt the flavor was not well rounded. Also as my title states there was zero oven spring on my last 3 attempts. I will say that I am using what I believe to be a lively starter. I refridge...	Let's analyse your recipe 65g starter687.5g bread flour125g whole Wheat Flour590g water11g saltTotal flour = 845g, Total water = 622.5g, Salt = 1.3%, Hydration = 73.6%, Levain = 7.7%Well first of all I'd increase you salt amount to 13g - 16gYou also autolyse for 2 hours with the levain and without the s...
Starter acts healthy, but smells vinegar-y This is sort of a non-problem, because even after my starter started smelling like vinegar, I've fed it and used it and made delicious bread with a nice texture. The reason I'm concerned is, it didn't smell like vinegar before, and its not going away even after a few feedings....	Sounds normal As far as I understand it, it is a fermentation process and that will produce acids. My experience is that if it begins to smell like acetone then it is bad. I ones ignored that and just made my bread anyway. But it was really awful! I couldn't eat it :-) But vinegar smell sounds really good and natural. ...
Can you leave a starter out? I bake nearly every day or every other day and I was wondering if I can leave the starter out on the counter everyday? Should I feed it everyday if I use it that often?	oh yes. and if its good and active and if your house is warm you could feed it twice. or feed it, and build the levain, which is another feeding.
French flour equivalent Hello there,I'm just making my way into sourdough bread but I'm a bit lost since I live in France and flour are named differently:'Strong Bread Flour' -> T55, T65 or T80 ?'Whole Wheat Flour' -> T110 or T150 ? (traduction: 'farine complète' : T110 -> farine semi-complète ; T150 -> farine intégral...	French flours are labelled by ash number 'Strong Bread Flour' is mostly a British/Canadian term. Unless otherwise specified, this is white flour so either T55 or T65 could be used but definitely not T80. You should know that neither T55 nor T65 will behave exactly like strong white bread flour because a) wheat grown in...
Quest for the perfect sour... ... and I found it * my family and I love this taste * and I get it with every bake. 50% hydration starter , feed it, put it in the fridge , leave it in the fridge for 3 days, take it out, take what you need for the bake, feed the rest up and put it back in the fridge.Formula200g 50% hydr...	Mmm Sounds so yummy that now I want some!
Once upon a time... ... there was a woman that loved baking bread.Her fav. bread was called Sourdough bread The woman had a husband and 4 children.They all loved the womans * Sourdough bread * very much.They named the Sourdough Starter * Gordon * and Gordon was happy , he ate well and he rose and sank and made beauti...	Thank you for making me laugh!
How do I get more rise? Hi all!I've been playing around with the recipe below and have not been able to get any more rise than what's in the picture. My bread barely breaks the plane of the bread pan when I'm looking to get the type of rise in the bread on the left. I've been playing around with the rise times hence ...	700 gm seems about right Assuming a US cup of water, which weighs ~237 gm, your dough weighs 816 gm, so the baked loaf's weight isn't going to be anywhere near as low as 500 gm. As for the lack of rise, do you know your starter is active? And what kind of method / timing have you been using?
Does the type of starter really matter? I have a lively little rye starter and I have found a couple of breads that I would like to try to bake that call for a white starter. Other than a different flavor imparted to the bread, will using a rye starter instead of a white impact the bread?	Well it all depends. I use a small amount, 6-10 g of stiff rye starter, to make all of my breads regardless of what kind they are. I build a levain over 3 stages to get the prefermented flour to 10-20% or so of the total flour in the recipe. The levain is fed what ever the bread is going to be, White, whole wheat, ry...

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