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I get breadsticks when I want baguettes Hi, when I follow my recipe (let rise until doubled in volume; shape loaves; proof for 2 hours at 85 degrees in humid environment; steam oven with icewater bath, mist loaves before sliding them; mist again 5 minutes later and replenish icewwater bath; then bake at 450 for 15 min...	breadsticks not baguettes I should add I'm using a pizza stone on the floor of the oven, but not baking directly on the stone.
My sourdough is SO sour.... I guess I don't even know what a "good" sourdough is supposed to taste like. Does Market Street or a similar high end groery store sell sourdough bread that is made in store? Maybe I can establish a "baseline" if I taste a pro's sourdough. Mine is extremely sour. I've used Ed Wood's new Zea...	How sour IS it? I don't have experience with that particular starter but most starters become progressively more sour with time after you feed them (add fresh flour) as the lactobacilli do their work. My decoder ring says you probably bought your New Zealand Rye starter from sourdo.com, not from Ed Wood who I suspect y...
About to give up and/or sit down and cry! I seem to be destined to never make my own starter ! My first attempt was Peter Reinhart's formula from BBA. That just sat there , was very runny and did nothing. ( for days!) Next I went to my Tartine book and tried Chad Robertson's method. This resulted in it separating and ...	don't throw it out! if your starter doubled, it is alive! don't throw it out! just start feeding it regularly and all will be fine! I don't know what hydration you are using for your starter. If it seems too liquid to you, make it more firm by adding more flour. Getting the starter to live is the hard part, you've don...
Thiols? Or something else? So I think I've got the problem identified, but I'm not entirely certain and would like confirmation. Last week I noticed my dough going slack after fermentation when I was making a pizza dough. This was no real problem for the pizza dough since I was going for something that was spread out...	Could be thiol compounds Have you read the solution yet?
General loaf trouble-shooting using new method I don't why but I decided to go pretty rogue with my most recent sourdough loaf in terms of my method, so it probably doesn't make that much sense, but I still thought it could be fine.Recipe:200g 100% hydration starter420g bread flour (I just had dark-colored flour, not w...	Stretch and fold as described Stretch and fold as described in these threads and others won't hurt anything, same as doing nothing. Enjoy!
Starter Bubbles, Bottom to Top? When i refresh My sourdough starter, i see bubbles through the glass container that start to appear at the base, and then appear higher as fermentation proceeds. Why aren't bubbles appearing throughout the starter altogether? Some food for thought.. Edit: Does the same apply to a dough b...	the soda effect someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the gas generated by yeast CO2, aka carbon dioxide? Just like a soda pop, bubbles will rise, and the CO2 is bubbling out of the starter solution, escaping into the air out of the weak (early) structure of the dough. Could also be that the bubbles form more easi...
Starter with a Rotten Egg aroma I have been experimenting with keeping my kamut/wheat and rye starters out on my counter rather than storing them in the refrig. for the past week. My rye starter has a very pleasant aroma but my kamut/wheat has a bit of a rotten egg aroma to it that puzzles me. (My starters in my refri...	When in doubt-throw it out I doubt you'd poison anyone but still-why take a chance.If you have doubts then toss it. Starters can have lots of smells but rotten eggs isn't one. Regarding other characteristics: Is the color "off"?Is it an old cheese type of smell? Is it rather watery even after thickening it up with a fe...
Slowing down the second rise. I use a potato flake starter. My bread has been turning out great! This is a 3rd generation starter that my daddy's wife's family has kept going. Sometimes I am not able to cook the bread but the time the second rising would be done. I am trying to put the dough in the fridge tonight a...	Is there anything that I Is there anything that I should do differently after taking the bread out of the fridge? Keep it loosely covered, allow it to return to room temp and let it complete its final proof. If it is fully proved, you can bake straight out of the fridge. (I do this sometimes). Mostly, I allow to th...
Herbs in SD Loaves,Toddlers love bread Thanks to TFL, my loaves taste great and look attractive too. Yesterday a family with 4 kids came for dinner-I pointed out to the toddlers the loaves proofing on the hood of my car in the driveway (why turn on the warming drawer when it's 85f outside?). A while later, I showed th...	Herbs in SD Loaf this sounds fantastic. is it .5t of french thyme per loaf? what is the difference between french thyme & regular thyme? thanks, claudia
Rogue use of starter I've been a lurker, but am convinced that the wisdom of this wonderful group will provide me the way to proceed. My husband, a Type2 Diabetic, is always trying to control his blood sugar. I read somewhere along the line, both on this site and in some research studies, that naturally leavened sou...	Rogue use of starter Thank you all for your feedback.
Starter with Photos Encouraged and inspired by others here in the past week I have 'let' my starters out of the refrigerator and am now allowing them to sit on my counter between uses. First part of the experiment was in deciding how much to feed. After reading several threads I decided on small amounts and shaping th...	Hydration Hi I find that higher hydrations starters ripen quicker. I have a 50% and a 100% hydration starter in the fridge and whilst the 50% one lasts 7 to 10 days without feeding, the 100% hydration one needs food every 3 to 4 days.
Building my STARTER: How BUBBLY should it be before going to next stage? Folks, I apologize if this is a silly question but this is my first attempt at building a starter. Actually its the seeding stage according to Reinhart's "Artisan Breads every day book" Im following his step by step guide to building the SEED tha...	If you're not sure of what step you're in, wait 12 hours to see what happens. Patience is a key to the starter making. The temperature will also make a difference. Temps under 72°F will take longer. 75°F is ideal. A dough fermenting with instant yeast contains a different yeast strain than a dough made with the flo...
Relationshipe between developing starter and new feedings: Changing? As I build a new starter, its volume increases each day. And I add the same amount each new day. So the volume increases but the proportion of new feed to developing starter changes. So, for example, if I have 200 gr. of starter in the bowl, and I add...	very perceptive! Now go back and check the directions. At about the third day or so, most of the growing starter will be discarded and then thinned and fed. :)
Using Peter Reinharts Mother Starter and Whole Grain Struan Formula for a Loaf of Sourdough Hello everyone, i am new to sourdough and want to attempt a sourdough version of Peter Reinharts Struan bread and would like your opinion on the method i came up with. Recipe: Soaker 198g Water 60g Hodgeson Mills Rye Flour 35g...	What recipe are you using? The one from the "Whole Grain Breads"? To me the ratios seem a bit off. My thoughts - I bake the Whole Grain Struan from WGB all the time with sourdough starter - are these: You don't have to refrigerate the soaker, you can leave it out at room temperature for 24 hrs. I would not put all the ...
Optimum time to use your starter ? I'm curious to hear when people think is the optimum time to use their starter. Is it when it's doubled and still bubbling ? Is it just after it's doubled and just starting to collapse again ? Is it just as good a few hours after it's been fed, has risen, collapsed and not been feed a...	hills and valleys What manner of starter have you been propagating? With any starter you would want to catch it right before it has reached its peak. Frequently this is also right before it crashes and collapses. So, assuming you're talking about a liquid levain, there will be a point in the starter's life cycle where ...
Over-proofing, under-proofing sourdough or just bad shaping...what does it look like? Hi, I am baking Sourdough since November and managed to get a couple of very good loaves done with a great crust and oven spring and even scoring and ears. That often happens when I do a long cold bulk fermentation in the fridge overn...	This isn't easy Sourdough baking is difficult, and Tartine is on the more difficult end of baking methods. Knowing when a dough is properly proofed takes longer than you'd think it should. This loaf actually looks pretty good. It's got an even crumb and looks proofed enough, so I'd guess it's not under.You will see ...
starter conversions A question about figuring out the hydration level of an old starter recipe, please. If you had an old recipe with it's own starter and you wanted to use your own instead, how do I figure out what the recipe starter hydration is? My existing starter is Peter Reinhart's original one from BBA and is ab...	A rough guess Your measurements round out about as follows: 3.5 cups flour = 125g X 3.5 = 125*3.5= 437.5g 2 cups water = 236g x 2 = 472g Ergo your previous version is equal to 909 g of starter at about 109% hydration, not accounting for that 2 Tbs of sugar and a few grams of yeast. You'd get an equivalent to that using...
Suggestions Hey guys! I decided to kinda wing a bread dough. I starter with about 3/4 cup active starter (around 100% hydration). Added 175 grams whole wheat flour, and 175 grams water. Let it sit out for about 7 hours. It got nice and bubbley and puffed up. To this I added 250 grams bread flour and 250 grams...	INRS Flour, water, salt, leavening = bread. You have three of the ingredients. All you need to do is adjust the formula for preferred hydration, flavor (salt) and leaveniing (yeast - starter) and go for it.
A simple recipe in grams to use with a starter Hi, i am fairly new to this site but i certainly bake enough to post here. I have been experimenting with starters lately, and i got one thats been sitting for a few days. I need a starter recipe in grams for a rustic bread, preferebly using around 200g of flour. If theres...	Peter Reinhart's recipe If I understand your post, you are looking for a starter recipe. Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Bread has an easy method to make a starter - Day 1: 28.5 gm whole wheat or rye flour and 56.5 gm pineapple juice. Each day's feeding uses just small amounts of flour and liquid so you are not wasting mu...
KA starter to Peter Reinhart? Hi everyone, I recently bought a sourdough starter from King Arthur and got it going. I was wondering how to convert it to be suitable for the recipes in Artisan Breads Everyday. The feedings consist of a 1/2 C water and 1 C flour. If you want to see the more detailed instructions, here's ...	Doing the Math Your bread won't know where your starter came from, it will respond only to the chemistry of the starter formula. But you do have to perform a few calculations to know what the final hydration level is for your bread dough. Let's say you have 100 grams of 83% hydrated starter, consisting of 55 grams of ...
weird starter issue... Hey guys, I have just finished my first successful bake with a rye starter that I created, temps are low here in Canada and it took about 2 weeks for it to be active enough. The problem I am having is that in the 2 days since this bake I have been trying to get a white starter going with th...	in my experience, rye flour in my experience, rye flour ferments much faster than white flour. if it took your rye starter a few weeks to develop, then maybe it is just too cold for the white starter and it just needs more time. are there any bubbles or signs of life at all? not a diagnosis obviously just a mere thoug...
Questions regarding Tartine I have successfuly baked Tartine Bread 4 times (8 total loaves) and very much enjoy this bread. But, my inquiring mind has questions on the specifics of the technique. 1) I love that Chad Robertson only uses grams for the recipe, except for the starter in the levain. How many grams are ...	In response to question 1, I In response to question 1, I don't think he specificies a specific hydration for his starter... he just says to stir it up into a thick paste, so the weight of a tablespoon would vary depending on the individual baker's interpretation of "thick paste." I would just scale up according to vol...
Tartine Country Loaf Hello everyone, I live in San Francisco and have attempted to bake Tartine's infamous Country Bread at least ten times now with wonderful results in flavor. Though I have never tasted Tartine's bread, my brother, whom frequents Tartine very often says that the flavor is near identical to what can ...	Beautiful Boule dvuong - That's a beautiful loaf. From what I can see you achieved a great grigne. The color and the oven spring look wonderful too. If the taste is good (as you say it is), you should be very pleased and proud. I look forward to seeing many more of your breads here. Great job!
Lean(ish) sourdough loaf pan recipe/suggestion? We adore the taste of sourdough and lean bread here. I've been trying to bake a couple of different sourdough recipes in little loaf pans for sandwiches for my little ones. My only really successful ones have a pinch of yeast added to help things along. I'm new to br...	It would be helpful to know what recipe you are starting from If we know where you are starting from, it helps direct you on what to try next. It may be that your starter is not active enough-how do you use it and how does it behave when you feed it? How often and what do you feed it? It took my starter quite a long ti...
hiw old is too old for a starter? So I was gonna make a Braided Scali Bread and set up my starter the night before. I never got around to making the bread and I've had this starter sitting on my counter for over a week now. Is it still useable? If so, for what? Oh, my ingredients for the starter were: 1 c Bread Flou...	smell it how does it smell? as long as it doesn't smell too alcohol-y or off in some way, just incorporate it into your next loaf, or into some pancake batter. Shouldn't really hurt anything. it's probably not going to taste as good as a ripe starter, but I guess better than going in the garbage...but be prepared to ...
I poured off some of the "hooch" from my liquid levain, are my yeasties gone too?? I've been following Leader's directions for starting my own liquid levain (local breads, p76). I used it to raise some dough on day 4 of the levain. Even though it was early in the process, it rose my dough well in the 8 hours I allo...	Hooch is waste product and acids. It is also a sign that your starter has used up the food and is very hungry. I hope you are discarding and reducing your starter before feeding it. Just pouring off hooch is not enough. The yeasts tend to sink toward the bottom. It sounds like you should reduce your starter to ab...
Maurizio’s Spelt, Rye and Whole Wheat Sourdough bread...What went wrong?? For my first try at a 50% whole grain sourdough bread, I decided to follow Maurizio’s Spelt, Rye, and Whole Wheat Sourdough bread recipehttps://www.theperfectloaf.com/spelt-rye-and-whole-wheat-sourdough-bread/ For once, I had the feeling that eve...	Gaelle, I think that the Gaelle, I think that the hydration is too high for your flours. I have found that Maurizio living in desert conditions uses much higher hydrations than I can living in Toronto Canada even in the winter when it is dry here. When I’ve made his recipes I always start by dropping the hydration at...
Five-Grain Seeded Sourdough Bread Recipe I have been tinkering with PR's Basic Sourdough Bread recipe for a while and have come up with the following recipe, which I really enjoy baking and eating: Five-Grain Seeded Sourdough Bread (based on Peter Reinhart's Basic Sourdough Bread, The Bread Baker's Apprentice) Fir...	Beautiful That's a great looking bread, Gaaarp. Mind if I feature this post on the front page? You did a very nice write up too.
Autolyse, Vital Gluten, Oven Temp ?s #1-Re Autolyse: some say 15 mins and others 60 mins. #2-Vital Gluten is suggested for more chewy bread but I see no difference #3-Sourness: I put my dough in the fridge after it is shaped and the final loaf is still not sour. I try thick or thin starter and still not sour. My homem...	20-60 minutes? I understand that it is important not to autolyse too much. So how does one know if 20 or 60 minutes is sufficient? I mean if I take it out and start kneading it for 5 minutes to find out then, well, it is too late by that time to put it back. Right? And is Vital Gluten really Vital?
Crust is too dark and thick I dont have a picture and wish I had but I am baking again tonight so I am looking for some advice. I am baking a Norwich from yest spotting. I preheat the oven using convection until it reaches 550 (Need to verify what the actual temp is) I then add 6 ice cubes to a cast iron pan on the...	Crust problem @ coffeetester H, ct. Do check your oven temp. It sounds like it's running hot when on convection bake. Generally, using convection is said to increase the effective temperature by 25ºF. So 425ºF would be like 450ºF conventional bake. That's a very reasonable temperature for the Norwich sourdough. Now, wh...
Never Give Up Sourdough (Picture below) I post this for 2 reasons: 1) I thought this sourdough was going to bomb, but it didn't. Never give up on your sourdough.2) I made several changes to the recipe I have been using for 4 months, and I learned a lot. Maybe you will too.Most important thing I learned: Never give up o...	Amazing crumb Now I wish I had more room in my fridge. I would pull all my sourdoughs in there to set overnight. Thanks for the details. I will try some of the ideas.Blessings,Lydia
Seed Starter or Mother Starter? I am lucky enough to live in the SF Bay Area with fantastic bread bakeries around each bend. One of the best of these was kind enough to give me a container of their "starter" to help me make my first sourdough breads using Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day. The trouble is, altho...	Active Starter From your description, it is an active starter. I am not sure of your reference to "seed" and "mother." I would feed this starter (at room temperature) in the ratio of 1:1:1 by weight of starter:chlorine-free water:unbleached flour. This will give you a starter of 100% hydration. You can refrigerate ...
Storage Starter and Rising Issues I am experimenting with starters this week. I have conducted several 'experiments' with the kamut starter I store in my refrigerator. Both have been fed at 75% hydration. 1oz starter - 3oz kamut flour - 2.25oz water. One I left sitting out at room temp. for about 2 hours after feeding...	fridge starters move slow Any starter that goes directly in the fridge after feeding will likely move VERY slowly. Considering that it went right in the fridge, the yeast probably went back to a more dormant state before getting a chance to start eating. The usual practice for feeding a starter is to let it rest at ro...
spreading loaves This is not too serious , but I have a problem with my Polish sourdough rye bread. I use a two day starter, and 4 cups of rye flour, 2 cups of unbleached white flour and 2 cups of regular white flour. The liquids are 1 cup of flat beer and 2 1/2 cups of water. Of course there is a little yeast, salt...	tricky you're dealing with a good amount of rye in your bread, so that's always tricky; esp. with ryes, you want to stay on the wet side, otherwise you can end up with breadbricks. you're right, wetter is better. That said, if it's spreading a lot, it's probably a bit too wet. Instead of adding more flour, try for mor...
Storing Excess Build for Later Use I am experimenting with the Detmolder method of rye bread production as outlined in Bread. I followed his quantities knowing I would have too much 'starter' but wanted to stick with his measurements for my initial try.... I would like to use the excess that I have - about 200g - tomo...	Go ahead, that shouldn't be a problem. Just take it out 2 hours before using so that it can come to room temperature. You should be able to keep the excess for at least three days in the fridge without feeding. I usually recalculate the amounts of starter according to what I need - it works the same, and you don't have...
Help! Brown Spots in Bread!!! First sourdough bread, and I got some strange brown spots in the bread. The recipe I used called for preferment, which I substituted with sourdough, a bit of sugar, flour and water to be mixed and left overnight at room temperature. So far so good. Then in the morning I was to add salt, fl...	Chemical Reactions? I have read that yeast works with sugar to produce alcohol and that when the alcohol overcomes the yeast and is mixed with soda it can produce brown spots in flour based baked goods. Apparently it's a factor of the soda reacting with the alcohol and the flour so that it can form brown spots in the...
Starving my starter? I've done the searching but I can't quite determine based on what I've read if I'm starving my poor starter. I keep my starter on the counter. I use it every couple of days. Recently I was feeding it on a 2:1:1 twice a day. It grew very quickly and started becoming foamy in advance of the ne...	Feeding is mostly a matter of what works for you However, the 2:1:1 ratio was probably leaving your starter underfed. Depending on the baker, you'll get recommendations of 1:2:2, 1:2:3, 1:3:3, 1:4:4, etc., etc., etc. None of those would dilute your starter in an unhealthy way. Given your present and soon-to-increase ...
After relocation, starter/levains behavior changed. Why isn't my levain rising-to-double anymore? I've maintained a german-style starter -- 100% pumpernickel-only fed, 100% hydration -- for years now.It's been a fine performer for me for all my bakes.I recently relocated -- US West -> East coast -- and 'everything' ch...	tap water? Much of the US is known for chlorinated tap water. Or worse, chloramines.If you are on "city water", and if the water utility has a web site, check to see if they mention amount of chlorine or chloramines. Though, I have no idea how much is acceptable for bread. It can also vary depending on the quality of...
'Old dough' vs pate fermente I'm curious about using 'old dough', not a premade pate fermente per se, that I make the day or two before. I'm in the process of making a straight dough and want to save some dough to refrigerate and give flavor to the next one. How much do I save and at what point in the recipe do I take ...	bakers have been doing this bakers have been doing this for years. re mixing dough is commen way to reduce wast. you can use between 10 and 15 % of old dough in a new batch depending if the dough is just old or realy sour. to see how bad a dough has gotten break the skin and smell ...be careful because a realy old d...
How Do You 'Read' A Rye Starter? Evening, I am new to sourdough growing and am wondering if someone can help me out with ways in which to determine when a sourdough starter has reached it's peak and is ready to be fed again or used in a recipe.... I have a kamut starter that is easy to read. It gets a dome on top. M...	Just a suggestion You could try dusting the top of the starter with some flour. As the starter expands, cracks will appear on the top of the starter.
Dense and flavorless- all my breads Hi All, I've posted a few times. Am new to baking and still haven't gotten a nice loaf. All my breads are turning out to have the same density- no crumb, little flavor and a hard to eat crust. This last attempt was a sourdough- using a borrowed "fail-safe, robust" starter. But, I ...	With your high altitude You have to be very careful not to overproof. Try using a little less yeast in the dough. If your recipe calls for 3 teaspoons, use 2 and see if that helps. Link If you are kneading for 50 minutes, you might want to try saving yourself some working time. Instead of kneading the first 20-30 m...
Tartine Country Bread - help me with my crumb please! Well this is a fascinating book and trying to achieve a consistently good result comparable to some of the awesome efforts on TFL is a constant distraction. The loaves I am baking are getting more consistent but the regular problem is the quality and distributio...	Yeah, the crumb thing... Hi Barry, I'm also struggling with some of the same issues, so you have my sympathy. I suppose the first question is why you want to have the bread look like Mr. Robertson's? From what I read in TFL, having or not having a very open crumb is both a matter of technique and to some extent what t...
Help diagnosing Hamelman Pain Au Levain issues. I have made this loaf a few times and each time I get similar results. I think I am under proofing, but am not experienced enough to know for sure. I follow his directions, including the timing and my loaves are about doubled by the time I put them in the oven. I use KA A...	what's wrong with it So what do you think is wrong with your bread? How did it taste? What did or didn't you like about it? IMO looks OK, maybe could use a little more spring, perhaps a browner crust, maybe a touch more hydration for a more open texture?
Starter Help!!! Hey Guys... I am still trying to get my first starter off the ground. I have made many mistakes so far. I was using Chlorinated water, I was useing bleached flour. I have fixed those errors but I am still have a problem. This time I starter using purified water and rye flour. Feeding twice a ...	you're on the right track. if it tastes like yogurt, it means it's working. Just be patient. if you're getting hooch (not just liquid separation), it means it's working, and possibly very quickly. How closely are you monitoring it? Does it grow to double yet? If so, how long does it take to double. You may want to st...
Anyone want to trade dried sourdough starter? I thought it might be interesting to try different starters from different parts of the country or world. I am in upstate NY in the Lake George region. Anyone interested in doing this? Donna	Hi, I live a bit far... ...But at sourdough.com some users had the same idea and if you're lucky you could be finding traders in near your own area, maybe with no need to send the starter by mail...here you are the link: sourdough.com/search/node/trading starters....I would also.be interested if you wish to get a sourd...
Using Pineapple Juice to boost a lazy start I recently got some great advice from a TFL friend to boost my languishing start using pineapple juice. I looked up the original posts on that method and decided to give it a try. I started on "day 4" of the process on part 2 of the pineapple juice post. My only question i...	Using Pineapple in starter Using Pineapple juice is recommended from the start to lower the pH, so the nasty bacteria don't take hold. They don't like the higher acid levels that the Pineapple delivers. Adding the juice at day 4 might not hurt but the nasty bacteria, if it has taken hold will be harder to get rid of. I...
refreshing starter amounts? So I have a starter made from the formula in Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day. Currently it weighs about 250g (I've used twice), and it's been about a week since I made it. In looking over the book directions for refreshing, you use what seems to me a giant amount of flour and water...	discard some first You certainly can feed much less, but you need to keep the amounts relative to the amount of starter as well. I feed 20 gr of starter with 40 gr water and 40 gr flour (100% hydration). You need to feed enough flour to provide enough food for the yeast, but the exact amount depends on how long between...
Non rising sourdough I finally got a sourdough starter using pineappple juice. It has a nice yeasty smell. However, I am not having much luck making sourdough bread. I have tried using the recipe in The Bread Baker's Apprentice and the bread does not rise and seems too dense. It does not have the large holes that I lik...	The first thing I suspect is that your starter is not old enough and/or not active enough. Before talking about the bread, tell us more about your starter. You said you finally got a starter with the pineapple juice method. That's a great start, but... -How old is your starter?-How often, what, and how much do you f...
Overnight sourdough bagels CAn anyone recommend a good overnight sourdough bagel recipe? So many I've seen don't retard the dough overnight or, even more strange, don't contain sourdough starter even though they're labeled sourdough bagels. Thanks!	Take your favorite bread, Take your favorite bread, drop water by like 30%, and let it rise about half as much, there's bagel dough. Enjoy!
where does "native yeast" actually come from? I posted this question as part of an answer in another forum, but it really belongs here. Are these native yeasts we use for sourdough actually from the surrounding environment, or are they perhaps just hiding in the wheat, deposited there in the field or in the mill? Tha...	In my flour for sure I always grow starters (from scratch) in sterilized and closed containers and they always thrive, much more if the flour I use is wholemeal. Moreover, if the flour is freshly milled the starter takes less time to activate. In my opinion this is an evidence that there are yeasts in the flour, not wi...
Which starter? Are they the same, in the same kitchen? Via Tartine and Peter Reinhart, I have entered the world of wild yeasts. After two weeks of faithful feeding, my tartine starter didn't seem like it was taking off. So, I kept feeding it and started another one in a separate bowl using Reinhart's recipe. To my d...	hard to say Let experience be your guide. I can tell you that from my experience, different starters taste and behave differently, despite the same feeding schedule in the same environment. I had a Carl Griffiths starter that I got from a friend, I fed it on the same schedule and baked with it, but it didn't taste as ...
When's best to use a starter from refrigerator? I have my first good sourdough starter and have been using it. Now I've placed the starter in the refrigerator. My question is ..... when I remove the starter from the frig., how long should I wait till I begin to use it to start baking again? Should I let it warm-up and ...	Feed it Bring it out, let it warm a bit, then refresh it a couple of times before you wish to use it. If you feed it on a 12 hour schedule, plan your bake accordingly. You want to use your starter at its peak performance. No living thing is going to be at peak performance after being stashed in a cold dark place for ...
Happy 1st Birthday Celebrated the first birthday of my starter with my new favorite go-to bread recipe: the Norwich Sourdough posted on Wild Yeast. http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/08/my-new-favorite-sourdough/ Very happy with the results	Lovely. Happy Birthday! Lovely. Happy Birthday!
Proportion Question on Percentages in Ripe Starters I have been maintaining my mother starter for a few months now - I am new at this sourdough 'thing' - and am ready to plunge into the 'why' question. I have been following Peter Reinhart's suggested proportions when I do my weekly feeds. I start with 30g starter and ...	Eyeballing? Why are you, or would you be, eyeballing it?
Photos of the different stages in the leaven building process I know I have seen detailed instructions on how to make a sourdough/leaven and how to know when it is ready to be fed and used here but,now when I want to find it, I can't. I have looked under ripe sourdough with pictures....pictures of leaven....and severa...	Dan's photos http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14913/very-liquid-sourdough#comment-95326
If you retard, at what stage do you retard? I almost always retard after final shaping. If it is a yeasted dough, then I put it in the refridgerator immediately after shaping lest it overprove. However, if it is a sourdough, I usually let it three quarter prove then retard. The following morning, I will often bake s...	different options You can retard your bulk (first) fermentation too. That's what I usually do, very common for pizza. Reasons? Timelines & flavor. Slower bulk ferment can let you adjust your baking timelines to suit your schedule. Fairly common knowledge that long cool fermentation helps with flavor development. I be...
Leftover levain I've just made my first loaves of Chad Robertson's Tartine Country Bread. I have my 200g of levain leftover. My question is.... can I use that 200g to make more bread the next day? I already have regular starter in the fridge for other bread.	well The leftover 200g levain will probably be pretty weak if you wait until the next day, if you're using it to provide leavening to a recipe. If you're just adding old dough for flavor, it might be fine. I'd throw it out, or use it to bake something else that same day. Why not a 1:2:3 sourdough loaf? In your case t...
As promised pictures of my vermont sourdough in loaf pans Had a very nice oven spring you can see the line have not sliced into one yet. Hope it's good as I already delivered one to my father in law. He placed his order the other day.	lovely! is there a recipe on lovely! is there a recipe on TFL?
sourdough starter hydration percentage? Hi All, I am feeding my starter at a ratio of 1:4:5 (starter:water:flour) It just wasn't getting anywhere on a 1:1:1 ratio or even a 1:2:2 ratio. It seems to be quite happy with this and is bubbling away when fed, but my question is if what hydration percentage is my starter? M...	80% as near as makes no difference After a couple of goes around your starter will be at 80%, 4 water to 5 flour. If, that is, you are measuring by weight rather than volume. Jeremy
Sprouted amaranth I've made two attempts at making a variation of sourdough bread from Tartine 3 with sprouted amaranth. Formul	350 g whole wheat flour150 g AP flour100 g fed starter10 g salt400 g water125 g sprouted amaranth (drained)The first loaf came out just ok, a bit dense and flat, but quite edible. I thought the cause of these issues was twofold: 1) the sprouted amaranth might have introduced too much water; 2) I think I rushed the stre...
how to figure levain % for dough hydration % question Hello, What's the math or method for figuring out how to add a levain with a differnt hydration than the dough will be? So if I have a 130% hydrated levain and I want to make a dough of 70%, 75%, 80% - whatever it is - how do I figure out how to compensate? I'm just...	Funny that you should ask Funny that you should ask just now - I was wondering the same thing the other day. I actually created a spreadsheet that does everything for you, just type in the two hydration levels and the goal weight. Note that this will really only work for small differences - if you need a large amount o...
Did adding friends start hurt my own?? I have been baking whole wheat sourdough for a few years with great results. About a month ago, my loaves suddenly stopped rising during the final proof. There is just no oomph left in the start. When I feed the start, it bubbles up nicely, and increases about 50% the original ...	perplexing Mylissa20, sounds like you're experienced and you've tried a lot. I do suspect there might have been some unfriendly "nasties" in the sourdough that you received from your friend that started competing with your nice starter. Some more questions: What is your feeding schedule? How exactly do you refresh y...
baking soudough in a loaf pan? Can I retard vermont sourdough in sandwich loaves (pans) and bake in the same pan? I want a tradtional sandwich loaf. Sorry for the dumb question	Yes indeed. Yes, you can shape and bake your dough in a bread pan, perhaps lining the pan with parchment paper or some form of pan release so it can come out easily. You may want to lower the baking temp a little and check the internal temp to make sure it's baked through properly - 198ºF or so is a good goal there. Ta...
SFBI's miche in dutch oven Today, I baked this miche in a dutch oven (I posted a reply in David's blog re: my first attempt on this miche) . To prevent the bottom from getting too burned, I took David's advice and dusted the bottom of the dough with semolina...lightly, and I put pie weights in the dutch oven, and put ...	bold bake Looks like a really bold bake (I like that term) on the stone; I prefer that chocolate brown color & crackly texture that sings.I've never been able to get the same crust quality in the dutch oven: high/low hydration, high/low temp, it doesn't matter. However, opposite from you I always seem to get better sp...
How can a starter actually be "aged" or "old" if we cut it in half everytime we refresh it? I heard someone somewhere talking about a starter that they had that dated back to the Oregon Trail! I was doing the math and thinking about how if that person fed it, say, every week and presumably dumped half of it, then the o...	Sourdough starter is a Sourdough starter is a symbiosis between bacteria and yeast, and in a well-run starter there is a lot of both, especially compared to the yeast on the wheat being fed. The yeast in the starter has a couple of advantages over newly introduced yeast: It is already active and hydrated, and doesn't ...
What did I do wrong? I'm an experienced bread baker, but am just starting to play around with sourdoughs. I'm also just getting used to a brand-new grain mill, and have been baking with 100% whole wheat, which may or may not have something to do with my problem. This morning I used Peter Reinhart's recipe for San Fran...	addendum to bread problem I forgot to mention that I used the convection feature on our oven - should I have just used the non-convection setting?
Retarding my starter I fed one of my starters today for a loaf I plan to bake tomorrow morning. The last feed brought my starter up to the amount I need for the recipe. Question: It is 'almost' ripe now as I started the last build this afternoon. It has almost doubled in it's little jar. What I am wondering is if ...	Cool but don't refrigerate I've had a similar situation happen to me. I used a spatula to stir the starter down and placed it on a table in my basement where the temperature was about 62F. I got a good night's sleep and probably nine hours after I stirred down, my starter was ready to break out of the container, ready ...
beginners luck? Hi all, So I've been browsing this site for a month or so now, while I start trying to teach myself some baking skills. Prompted by winning a Kitchenaid Stand Mixer in a contest in December, I wanted to get into making my own bread. I picked up Peter Reinhart's Artisan Bread Every Day and have made a co...	Nice Start Nice start, David. That's a very nice looking loaf and if you like the flavor there isn't much more to ask of what appears to be a tender crumb. Suggestion: Next time slice your loaf on the horizontal plane to get a better assessment of your crumb overall.
Why do we discard part of the starter? Is it just to make room in the container? Is it so we don't need to add back as much flour? If I wanted to share my starter with others could I just divide it in two add back to each and then have 2 starters?	Exponential growth I don't know how you refresh your starter, but most formulas call for a ratio of around 1:3 of old starter and new refreshment. Do the math. If you don't discard a substantial amount of your starter, it will consume all the space in your house in a very short time. That said, you can always use the...
Converting liquid starter to a sponge starter....rookie question How do (or can I even) change part of my liquid starter to a sponge starter?	'sponge' What exactly are you trying to achieve? A sponge is basically a pre-ferment. The Italians call it a biga. the French call it a poolish. Turning a starter into a sponge would mean adding some yeast when you feed, so you'd probably want to divide the starter in half, keeping the "clean" starter separate. You'l...
The bread sticks Dear all. We have been following your instructions for sourdough full spelt bread which result in very tasty bread. When using the dutch oven or the ceramic La Cloche approach, the dough sticks to the casserole or the oven. We preheat the casserole to the high temperature and the hydration is between 6...	Bread sticking Maybe it's not done yet? If it is done, sometimes a little wait is in order. As it cools it will shrink and more likely fall out. A good preventitive measure is to lighty flour the bottom of the dough before it hits the casserole or oven. I like to roll the bottom of the loaf in rolled oats or sesame...
Whole Wheat &/or Flax Seed Starter???? Chefs, I'm making a Sourdough starter, rather small at 15g flour and 15g water. What are you thoughts on using King Arthur Whole Wheator fresh Flax seed ground to a flour? It would probably change the tastes, but would it work?? Also, I live in Annapolis, on the water.It's cold he...	bubbles look good GoldenFarm, Awesome picture. I ended up adding with a WW & AP Flour, both King Arthur.But I didn't know about the pinapple juice trick to lower the PH. I'm just going to let this sit for a couple days and let nature take it's course. John.
Help adapt formula for use with levain I've got a formula for a nice American style pizza dough that rises in the refrigerator for 24-48 hours, but I was thinking about swapping the instant dry yeast and long ferment for a levain so I could do silly stuff like make same day sub rolls or maybe even soft dinner rolls. Mo...	on the right track I'd say go for it! 20% biga will increase your hydration though, especially if it is a 100% hydrated biga. Consider dialing back your hydration. I'll get you a formula in a second. Also, I don't know how active/regular your levain is, but of course it will change your overall rise times, possibly sub...
bleaching Does bleaching kill the natural yeast in flour? I have read that whole grain flour has more natural yeast than white flour and the rye flour has more than whole wheat.Does anyone know the answer?	Since people can successfully use bleached flour to begin their starters, I'd have to say that the bleaching process does not kill all of the yeast cells in the flour. That isn't to say that it doesn't kill some percentage of them, just not all. In general, whole-grain flours, whether wheat or rye or spelt or whatever...
Rephrasing -- turning a liquid starter to a firm starter but how much? My liquid starter is 100% hydration (equals weights flour:water). A lot of the recipes I see here call for a "firm starter or sponge". I don't have that and have a ton of liquid starter a la Ed Wood's cool book. what's a lad to do?	Generally A stiff starter is 1/3 water and 2/3 flour by weight, or 50% hydration. You can do two things: segment off a bit of your liquid starter and feed it extra flour as necessary. Flour to Add = Stiff Weight / 3 Liquid Starter = Stiff Weight * 2 / 3 ex: recipe calls for 200g Stiff Starter 200g / 3 = 66.6g feed: ...
Sourdough Sausage Rolls I am trying to find a good easy recipie to make sausage rolls.	Link http://www.google.com/search?q=sausage+rolls&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox
How do you "dry" a starter? If I have a great starter and want to dry a small amount of it and freeze it for insurance, how do I "dry" it?	I've used the folowing technique with success Scoop out some starter with a spatula (I use a silicone spatula) and smear it in a thin layer onto a piece of parchment paper. The layer should be about 1 or 2 mm (1/32 to 1/16th inch) thick. It can be thicker, and it doesn't have to be even. The thinner it is, the faste...
How much gluten flour should I add? I'm new to sourdoughs and read in a book by Ed Wood that he sometimes adds gluten flour to rye due to rye not rising well.... I couldn't find anywhere that said how much to replace it with. Is it one cup of gluten flour to one cup rye? How much gluten flour is needed to make it rise ...	Gluten flour Are you using 100% rye in your recipe? Most rye recipes have a mix of AP. Most people use only 2 to 3 tablesppons of gluten flour per cup of flour. I wouldn't think you would want to use much more than that. Donna
2nd bake off of Vermont Sourdough getting better.. Here are my finished loaves ready to be delivered to friends... So here is my second time baking VS with my own starter. This time around I did not place anything but the baking stone in the oven and threw two ice cubes on the bottom. About 10 mins later threw in 2 ...	Looks like some very nice Looks like some very nice oven spring! Vermont sourdough is one of my favorites. Mine also turn out with very dark crusts (which I like). Your gift recipients are very lucky.
How can I know if my sourdough smell right? Hi everybody and greetings for the amazing forums I started my interest in bread baking several months ago. Read a lot in Peter Reinhart's books and was excited of sourdough breads. Due to several bad experiences I abandoned the idea for a while, and now back to it. Actually ...	smell & weight It usually takes several weeks before a new starter is really able to give proper rising to the bread. Also time is required to give the taste yoiu might wish. Sometimes there is an off odor generated in the early stages of starter development. The pinapple juice method usually avoids this, but someti...
Where to "start" {no pun intended} Added pictures of finished bread Okay so I beleive my starter is well on it's way. I am currently on day 9 of the pineapple/rye start. I am currently doing 20oz S. 40oz W and 40 oz F. I am getting a triple rise and it's seems to not really be defalting all that fast. It had dropped in...	Try Teresa's Basic White Sourdough using 100% Hydration Starter See http://www.northwestsourdough.com/discover/?p=1174 Since you have been feeding equal weight of flour and water this is a good fit. I bake it in a romertopf clay baker (half batch) and slice it for sandwiches. She has a lot of good stuff on her site inc...
Uneven oven spring in sourdough boules Folks, I've been baking sourdough boules pretty much weekly since March, and have been happy in general with the results (sometimes great oven spring, crumb, and texture). However, I have been plagued by an occasional boule that seems "flattened" on one side compared to the other....	What about the baking? are you rotating the loaf during the bake? Temp? Fan? Got a crumb shot thru the suspicious area?
Did I kill it? So I refreshed my starter this morning at 730 put it back in the oven where its been living for the past 15 days. I have been opening the door with a wooden spoon it keeps the light on and the temp pretty steady. I forgot to put the spoon in the door and the light was on EEEKKK!!! I left about 830 and ju...	Hard to say. take a ladel and dip some of the middle out and pour onto a plate to cool it. Then feed it (1:1:1) and see if it comes back. The bubbles might have insulated it long enough or maybe not. Got any dirty spoons around from the feeding before it went in the oven? Just a dirty spoon can be used to get it go...
New loaf Took 3 days from start to finish but I barely touched the dough and it tastes excellent!	Looks scrumptious but I want details - what kind of flour, which recipe, what retarding schedule, steam method?
Converting traditional starter to obtain mild, sweet bread There are times I want a non-sour sweet sourdough bread. So, I convert a cup of my traditional sourdough starter (flour/water) to a Herman (flour/water/sugar/potato--two feedings) on the day I want a sweet mild bread. Is there any other way to obtain the desi...	Thank you for a Thank you for a response. I like to keep a traditional starter going on the counter at room temperature by feeding it twice or three times daily depending on the seasons. I do know that this keeps my starter milder. On the day I would like the mild sweet bread; I feed it differently at 7am and ...
How to pronounce "poolish " I was watching a sourdough video presentation and the gentleman pronounced it " Polees". Is that the correct way ? Anna	I pronounce it like I pronounce it like "Foolish". My wife said "Polees" is the French pronunciation.I just say "Yes Dear".Carl
Over night proof question musings. I've been trying a few different formulas and techniques with sourdough breads. My sourdough journey started so long ago with the (not so sourdough) no-knead bread. I soon wanted something authentic and more hands on as the no knead method got boring very quickly, but I loved the resu...	Tartine schedule Basically, Robertson builds his levain on the evening of Day 1, mixes the dough and does bulk ferment with stretch&folds followed by shaping on Day 2, and gives you the choice between a relatively short warm proof, or overnight proof in the fridge with bake on Day 3. He uses about 20% levain in the fi...
Okay to Transfer Starter After a couple false starts on my first attempt at a sourdough starter, I have me first starter and it's ALIVE!! Maybe too much :-O On day 6 (today), I was coming downstairs and could smell that nice yeasty smell and to my surprise when I walked into the kitchen I found that the starter had co...	Had to transfer The yeasties were growing like crazy and I had to make the transfer to a larger jar. It was like the "Blob" growing out of control. I hope the starter survives the move - they seem to be still going crazy!! Here are some pictures; 1. Transfer to large jar from small jar. 2. The starter bubbling away ...
Starter: Refresh before or after? Everything I've read says that you should expand your starter by the amount you want to use in the bread hours before (or days, or whatever the case may be). I'm finding as I begin using starter for the first time that I tend to do the opposite: I pull from my stored starter and put...	It's working for you! And that's all it has to do. I see no problems with your method except on Q or point 2. And your starter will tell you if it is too old. It will not put out like it used to and be sluggish. It will have flat appearance, hooch and smell more like beer or alcohol. On the other hand if the feedin...
Top Crust Separates from Crumb Hi, I've seen a number of posts on this topic but the answers range from vague to contradictory. I'll try to be as specific as I can to allow for more precise answers. I'm a fairly experienced homebaker although new at sourdough breads. I'm using Chad Robertson's (Tartine) Country Bread r...	Looks to me like the dough wasn't degassed One characteristic of a dough that is allowed to rise without degassing (via folds or pat downs) is that you get great big gas pockets which aren't really desireable (unless you're looking to hide something in your loaf). Could be other things as well, but that's what occurs t...
Fact or Fiction Hey Guys! I am just new to sourdough (and bread for that matter) baking and I seem to have come to a few dead ends that I want to get cleared up. I had originally thought that a starter "captures" yeast from the air and that is what grows into your culture. It seems that some people are claiming t...	Short answer... The yeast comes from the flour. Specifically, it hitches a ride on the grain before it's ground. Whether or not the yeast population from an imported started will disappear over time, though, I don't know. During each feeding, you'll innoculate the starter with yeast from an outside source. But, at t...
Third generation Starter fed with potato flakes and a weird happening I have a starter that was given to me. It has been in the family for a long time, third generation. The directions that I have, say to feed it with potato flakes. I have been doing everything and the bread has been turning out great. IO have had...	What law of science does it defy ? If you're adding a cup of water plus other ingredients that is more than a cup. How could it not be ? You're measuring by volume and that's never consistent. Measure by weight and you'll gain accuracy. How much the starter rises also depends on the temp and how long it's been since y...
Judging the fermentation - what to aim for? Hi!I’ve been regularly baking for about a month using the aliquot jar method to judge the extent of fermentation and still have more questions than answers.Many recipes say that I should continue bulk until dough volume is increased by 60%. In reality I cannot measure bulk vo...	Various Factors First, your bread looks pretty good.At the risk of having you read through a long blog post, here is a link to my post on the Tartine Basic Country bread. https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/64305/tartine-basic-country-bread Somewhere around two-thirds of the way through it you will find the photos and de...
Is firm starter more potent that a 100% starter In recipes that call for a firm starter but don't specifiy, what is the purpose of the firm starter. Do you get more "bang for your buck" so to speak with a firm starter vs a standard 100%? I'm becoming more familiar with using a starter and my bread gets good oven sprin...	Starters Susie, Using firm or liquid starters really seems to be a matter of experience and preference. Many professional artisan bakeries seem to use a firm starter, perhaps because it's easier to store. Here, though, I prefer a liquid one. However, I've used both and have never noticed any difference at all in "ba...
Newbie 4th time trying to get a starter going I am brand new to the site, just found it a few days ago and I think I am on sourdough OVERLOAD! For the past two months I have been trying to get a starter going. I have never done this before I am pretty new to the world of bread baking. I love to bake and decorate cakes ...	Just an update just peeked in Just an update just peeked in at my starter 12hrs after start and I have more action in this first start already than I did in all 3 of my previous attempts. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will catch on! Oh I baked some french bread yesterday so I know I have some things floating aroun...
off the fence and on the band wagon: sorry! still trying to put pics here :( Hi every body! Finally I made it! Made my starter with rye and rasin water. think it is working now though still have some uncertainties. I am feeding now with BF. Here are my results: with week old starter. first bake: I put this one in the ...	posting pics; in easy steps Hey Barbara, Posting pictures here on The Fresh Loaf is a bit of an ordeal indeed, although not difficult at all. I'll try and explain it to you step by step. In this explanation I assume you are trying to upload a picture from your computer to the fresh loaf site. Step1; create conten...
Reviving dried starter: covered or not? I'm trying to revive a friends of carl dried starter. In the instructions it says nothing about covering it at any of the stages of revival. This hasn't seemed quite right to me so I've kept it covered most of the time. I'm wondering if reviving a dried starter is more like cr...	cover and wait. I tend to leave a small spoon in the container and open to stir about every 8 hrs or so, but that is also not really needed. Covering would be important to prevent it from drying out or bugs jumping into it. A piece of plastic and a rubber band is easy enough. If you want to avoid plastic, just sit ...
Feeding Starter Is a starter typically fed for maintenance at a 1:1:1 or some other ratio 1:2.3:2.3? How often is it refreshed if only used on the weekends? Also, are wheat starters typically refreshed with all wheat flour of a mix of APF or BF and wheat?	Search is your best friend Using the search field at the left of the page is a quick and efficient way to find information on this site. I searched for 'Feeding a starter' and got these results: http://tinyurl.com/4dvd982
Curiosity about dry milk in sourdough bread??? I have a start and the recipe I'm using is one that my mother and grandmother have used for years so I've never seen a reason to change it considering it's one I like and it's easy. It only consists of baking soda, eggs, flour, starter, and sugar... Not much to it I know b...	Dry milk is easier and Dry milk is easier and quicker to use than regular milk...no scalding and cooling. It improves the texture of the bread crumb... making it softer, more cake like. Using dry milk instead of regular milk will keep the crust from getting too soft as with regular milk. I know this is not a concern wi...
Need Help with Reinhart's Seed Culture I am on day 4 of BBA's seed culture formula and for some reason there is no sponge activity. All looked good after days 1 through 3. On the 3rd day the sponge doubled. 24 hours into day 4 I have only a 10% rise. Should I repeat day 4? I did use pineapple juice for days 1 and ...	Seed culture, @ hydestone Hello hydestone, Sorry to hear that your starter isn't starting so well. Here are some ideas: 1. The below-70 part of your temperature range will definitely slow the starter's progress. Can you arrange for it to sit in a spot that is consistently warmer? 2. In spite of starting with pineappl...

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