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To fridge or not to fridge I'm a bit confused--using ABED seed culture/mother culture instructions. Everything has gone swimmingly and much more quickly than I thought it would and I've created the mother culture, per the directives in the book. The book now says to put the mother in the fridge and it will be good...	tacky starter Thank you for clearing up my confusion. This starter is rather tacky but like a large, expanded ball rather than a batter. I'll probably use it every 3-4 days.
sourdough - second rise ?? Greetings - After a couple of years' hiatus, it appears that I'm (getting) back on the sourdough treadmill.(The sourdough starter in question is my home-grown, Brookline-based starter.) Today's loaf is shown below (behind the remnants of last week's undercooked (but wonderful toasted) loaf): ...	Re: Sourdough second rise A healthy, stable starter should be able to handle two rises with no problem. This leads me to wonder how you are feeding and preparing your starter prior to the dough mix. If your starter is not healthy it may be too acidic, which can cause gluten break down. Your bread looks like that could,...
A Question Regarding Ricotta Cheese/Cottage Cheese in Sourdough Bread I have been experimenting using sourdough to make lightly enriched sandwich breads. Went great until I tried to make a ricotta loaf. All white flour, a little butter/sugar/milk, quite a bit of ricotta cheese, 19% of the flour was in the sourdough lev...	HG flour? I wonder if the added strength of high-gluten flour would be of help, txfarmer. As to the acidity of ricotta, I've read at some sites that it's recommended as antiacid for those suffering from acid reflux. Cottage cheese is acidic. Interesting questions you've asked.
Compilation of pH, pH Meter, and other such things As a untrained baker concerning all things pH, I thought it good to provide this post for others that may be interested in learning along with me. The more I learn the more it becomes evident that pH and pH meter handling and maintenance is no simple thing. Although no...	Excellent videos, thanks for Excellent videos, thanks for sharing Danny! I really liked the one with mistakes: some of them were obvious to me from training in university (I am afraid to imagine what our professors/TAs would do if we left the electrode dry or in water), and some - less so!
What happened to my starter? Help! I've been baking for just under a year using the starter from Tartine Bread. I've always used water from my Brita pitcher and have had no problems until recently. One day I noticed that the bottom of my pitcher was a little green, looking up online a lot of people seem to be having pr...	First off, I would start a First off, I would start a new starter using Debra Wink's pineapple juice solution immediately. This is so that, if you try to save THIS starter, and it fails, your new starter will already be several days under way. Using Debra's complete instructions (from pineapple juice part 2), you'll be...
Sourdough flatbread/tortillas Hello! I had some whole wheat firm starter to use up and decided to try making some leavened tortillas. Since tortillas usually aren't leavened, these would probably be more correctly named flatbreads, but I will use them as tortillas : ) This made four smallish ones. Mix water and start...	Try uploading them to Try uploading them to photobucket or picasa, and then linking to the smaller versions on those sites. I use picasa/google more than photobucket, and it gives you the option of a link that automatically sizes the photos to 640 x 480 that you simply cut and paste into the html version of your post....
temperature issues and keeping a starter Hello I am new to the forum but have been baking sourdough bread for a few months with some success. But I do have some questions regarding temperature where you are keeping your starter. In the summer months my house is normally in the mid 70's perfect for keeping yeast vigorou...	What do you do for heat??? I What do you do for heat??? I keep my home temp around 65 and I have a pellet stove. My kitchen and living room are basically all one room there "shouldn't" be too much of difference where I put my starter. I use to leave it on the counter in the kitchen and it just didn't seem to working fa...
Oh this sourdough starter... I have always been a reader in this site. There is so much information I never thought it necessary to create an account but, when it comes to sourdough starter, things get a little deep for me and I finally just had to jump in and ask. I have a starter that is wild caught and about three w...	I think .......if you are feeding your starter equal volumes of water and flour you will end up with a very liquid starter that won't show much sign of rising (just a lot of bubbles). Try feeding your starter with equal weights of flour and water and see if you get some rise out of it. Another thing you can do is use r...
Question On Baking Time Hello all - just finished a rehab of my starter from a dormant period of 4 months so this is my second loaf, its been a struggle getting back into the rhythm - the real issue here is that i seem to always be guessing at baking time. the loaves come out chewy (which i have grown fond of) and ...	Could be several things Your baking temperatures seem low to me. Most lean type breads are baked at 450 F or higher by the successful bakers on this forum. You didn't specify the type of loaf in the photo, but it looks like a dark flour such as rye or spelt, so I can't tell if your crust is browned. You might check you...
Replacing sourdough in recipes Hi, I have been put off trying to make a sourdough starter because it seems like way too much effort for someone who makes on average 1 loaf per week. I usually make breads with pre-ferments (I mean pate fermente, biga or poolish) but there seem to a lot more recipes for sourdough. So I'm...	Sourdough Starter replacements "So I'm wondering if there is a way to replace the sourdough part with a pre-ferment?" Why not? Sourdough starter is just a pate fermente, a biga, or a poolish in which the "wild yeast" replaces the commercial yeast. Of course it also contains the lacto bacteria to give the bread its u...
my dried & revived starter is ready now? I began reviving a dried starer 4 days ago - it is now more than doubling between feedings - it actually doubles or more in only a few hours ...it's it ready to bake with? Sorry for such a juvenile question ...I do try searching first but so many posts come up and I can't spend...	Ready or Not. If the dried starter was mature when it was dried, your revived starter should also be mature. Go ahead and try it. What have you to lose? So, say, "Ready or not, here I come!" Ford
Refrigerating the starter PR's New York deli rye? What happens if I don't refrigerate the starter for my New York deli rye bread as PR indicates, but instead continue on to make the bread the same day? Anyone tried it?	It turns out just fine, ronnie g I've made it both ways with good results. While I suspect that PR is aiming for additional flavor deveiopment with a retarded ferment, the flavor from the onions and the caraway more than masks any change in the rye's flavor that my tastebuds can detect. By the way, my wife isn't a car...
cheat starter before I knew of the 'right' way to make a starter, I made my starter following the directions in an old book I have called "Back to Basics" in which commercial yeast was used ...I know many people disapprove of this, but it was the first method I found ...now it's also my understanding that the wild yea...	interesting question If the whole idea is to have the wild yeast take over eventually, then I don't see the need for the commercial yeast to begin with. First, it'll make it impossible to tell if you're getting any wild yeast activity in your starter, since the commercial yeast will be giving you a false reading. Also,...
Whole Spelt for cold weather starter - works every time It's been raining for days in Southern California and that means my place is cold and damp. The kitchen cools to 58F at night and hits 65F during the day. The best solution is to bake every day. The gas oven is cheap to run and doubly efficient when it's taking th...	Great Spelt Starters! And with Orange juice! You must be the baker of my Campari dreams! Lovely lovely starters!
Converting Recipes Hi, I have a recipe I would like to convert from yeast to starter. I understand how to do everything except, how much starter to use. Do I just decide I want to use so much starter and go from there?	Conversion from commercial yeast "Do I just decide I want to use so much starter and go from there?" Yep, that is just about the case. Take the amount of starter you would ordinarily use for the amount of dough, subtract the amount of flour in the starter from the amount of flour in the recipe, and subtract the amount...
Starter doubling or tripling - time or target? Just curious what most of you do when developing or refreshing a starter, in terms of doubling or tripling targets, and time it takes to get there.I used to keep to the volume growth target, and refresh only when the levain made the target (or was beginning its decay phase...	Levain build thoughts A few months ago, @Doc.Dough posted a scholarly set of observations on The 2% weight loss method for judging levain maturity that you might find of interest. I have made a few measurements since that confirm, for me, his observations.However, since I’m not as seriously inclined or too lazy to care...
Sourdough yeast hybrid A couple of artisan bakeries around here produce a "sourdough" which has yeast in it. The loaves are somewhat sour but light and fluffy like a supermarket sourdough. They do not have the denser crumb of a pure sourdough. I have tried to make a sourdough like this by adding a little yeast to my...	Hybrid Loaves If you have the opportunity,look through Jeff Hamelman's book, "Bread". There are some recipes for hybrid loaves in the book that have been proven to be very successful by more than a few posters here.
trying to make my own starter- first time after about 36 hours I have bubbles and that 'cheese' smell which I guess is normal ...but I also have some dark 'spots' on top ...does this mean anything? thanks!	Here's some helpful info, loribe The cheesy smell isn't out of the ordinary; it's just the indicator of a particular group of bacteria that are prevalent in your starter-to-be. They will eventually give way to others until, eventually, conditions are right and the dormant yeast in the mixture are awakened. The part th...
Forgotten sourdough dough that smells like pineapples I'm after a bit of advice, I have some sourdough 'final dough' that I forgot about for a few days on the kitchen bench and now it smells like pineapples - yes pineapples! Only way I can describe it. My question: is this still safe for consumption? Should I even bot...	It should be fine, Tempe If there's no evidence of mold, peel back the top layer. Take a spoonful of the starter and feed it per your normal procedure. It should be back to full strength after 2 or 3 successive feedings. Right now, it is very depleted and hungry. Paul
My Starter isn't rising enough and it's an over 100 year old starter..... Help!!!! I got a starter from my mom that has been in the family for over 100 years (My grandma's mother started it and my grandmother will be 91 this year). In other words it's a good starter and I shouldn't be having problems with it!!! But bec...	When you feed it, do you When you feed it, do you discard a like amount from your jar? For instance, When I feed mine, I first remove 290 grams of starter; then I feed the "mother" with 150 grams of water and 150 grams of flour to replace what I've just used. Mine tends to double in about 4 hours....though this is very...
A bunch of starter questions! I have a 2 month old white starter that I don't measure the flour and water for when feeding but have kept around 100% hydration. The one time I used it to make bread, I noticed there wasn't a very sour flavor but mostly a slightly tangy aftertaste. At that time I was measuring the flour...	If it weren't for the cold kitchen your starter would be in rough shape. With those temps, the starter is working at very slow rates. If you find you have too much starter, remove a few cups and make a loaf. No need to feed the stock pot too soon. You may run into problems when the room & starter warms up, this wil...
Sourdough starter question? Today is day 8 of my sourdough starter and it smells like a nice merlot but not like yeasty bread. I made the starter with 1/2 sprouted rye and 1/2 sprouted whole wheat...totaling 1/4C mixed flour, 1/4C filtered water. I've been feeding it every other day and it is not growing in height. ...	Back to basics After day 2 - 3, or so, the new starter usually begins feeding at least daily, more typically, twice daily. Yours, at the stated consistency(seemingly quite liquid), almost surely is being starved. What are you using as a guide/tutorial? If not using a guide, it's probably best to choose one, and really ...
burnt on outside / uncooked on inside Hello all! I just joined and I have a question. Last night I tried to bake a Pain de Campaigne, and after 20 minutes at 400F it was getting burnt on the outside so I took it out. When I cut through it, however, I discovered to my outrage that its center was still gooey. I'm wonderi...	Hi Craig, and welcome to TFL Sorry to hear about the baking problems. Here are some guesses about causes: 1. The actual temperature inside the oven is a lot hotter than the selected temperature setting. It's fairly common for oven thermostats to give inaccurate readings. Get a cheap oven thermometer and put it in yo...
Need alternatives for proofing baskets I'm making Northwest Sourdough's basic white today and noticed that it says to shape in a banneton, lined basket, couche or whatever I plan to use to hold the shape during proofing... I don't have any shaping baskets, an Easter basket is about all I have... Would a bowl with a he...	Linen or cotten Will do in a pinch. Use rice flour if you have it. As to the baguettes and bâtards, if you plan on continuing baking, do invest eight bucks and buy a yard of linen from SFBI. You won't regret it. Speaking from experience, the linen makes a vast difference. Having the correct tool to do a job is impo...
is an old but rehabilitated starter safe? hello all - i have an 83% hydration starter, however i went abroad for 4 months and forgot to do anything with the starter. i left it in the fridge and had dried it out a bit. when i got back the starter had a thick crust on the top and beneath that looked alright. i took ...	I am no microbiologist, but I am no microbiologist, but in my unqualified opinion, I think you are safe. You don't mention any spoilage or mold, or unpleasant odor. You have refreshed it a number of times and it is doubling (growing) and smelling sweet and attractive. These are all good signs. Sourdough starters la...
Steaming in oven I have tried many way of getting steam into the oven to maximize loaf expansion, but the latest method tried is by far the best. I slide the loaf onto a hot stone set just above the lower heating element and then immediately cover the loaf with a dome shaped steel bowl. I even have a device inside ...	Check this link, we just had long discussions:) http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21300/super-low-tech-039tin-foil-hat039-no-knead-loaves-amp-baguettes
pH of dough (not starter) This question is not about pH meters or how to use them, but rather to understand what to expect from the reading. I happen to have a pH meter that I've used for cheese making so I've decided to try using it to test fermentation readiness at the proof stage, i.e., when to bake. Yesterday I pre...	Sonia, I too come from Sonia, I too come from cheesemaking (and brewing) and used to religiously pay attention to PH (and TA, actually). It doesn't address the rising PH issue, but I found member Benito's post on anecdotal PH targets helpful. Thought you might as well. If you've not adopted the aliquot technique, yo...
Dried starter travel travails Since I need to break in a friend's new laptop, I might as well post something here. Before leaving South Africa to visit family in the States, I dried some of my starter so that I could transport it easily and bake some sourdough breads for family members. The drying part went okay. Eve...	Similar findings initially, but happier ending Hi Paul. I dried some starter as an experiment a few weeks ago. I'll be going away for 4 weeks in February, and although I think there's a good chance at least one of my fridged starters will survive my absence, I wanted to see if dried starter resuscitated as I'd heard it...
King Arthur all purpose and bread flours --a difference? I haven't noticed any difference between these two flours in sourdough. Anyone else found this? RB	While using those flours in a While using those flours in a starter you might not notice much of a difference, unlike for bread baking, a difference on how the loaves may take to water would be apparent. The bread flour has a higher protein level and thus would absorb more water. While feeding your starter I would just...
Does Freezing Improve the Taste of Sourdough Bread? A counterintuitive idea, perhaps, but one put forth by a correspondent who takes his baking, cooking and eating extremely seriously. We know that the taste of a sourdough loaf will improve for a few days or more after baking, but what happens to bread when it is froze...	Not technical, but empirical I have noticed that the sourness of a sourdough loaf, particularly whole wheat SD breads, seems to be stronger after freezing. Dunno if that qualifies as better. Paul
Sweet sourdough treats? Hello everyone, So perhaps this is a long shot. I am working with the panettone recipes that I've found here and elsewhere to figure out how to make a naturally leavened panettone here in the PNW, where the rising times suggested elsewhere are nowhere near accurate during these cold months. My...	Here in Greece we have a Here in Greece we have a sweet type of bread called "Tsoureki". It has lots of sugar, butter, milk and every recipe I've found for the moment uses yeast. My last serious attempt to make it sourdough, was partially successful. The taste was great, but the time needed to rise very long. Eight hou...
Exchanging starters in recipes Hi, I am new to this site and also new to using starters. I was given a recipe for a wheat starter and wonder if I can use it in any recipe that calls for a starter. Thanks.	Yes, you can. As long as you're making bread with wheat flour, be it white or whole wheat.
Sprouted Flour Sourdough Starter? I'm finding it difficult to find a recipe for sprouted flour sourdough starter? Most recipes call for wholegrain flour. Does anyone know if you can make starter with sprouted flour? If so, does anyone have a good recipe....thanks, Curlygirl. P.S. I hope I finally figured out how to...	You could start a normal starter and convert it to a sprouted flour starter. See if it works. Out of curiosity... Why would you like a starter from sprouted flour?
Any predictions? Impatience has gotten the best of me... I continue to feed my starter daily (about 7 days now) and while it's bubbling weakly (tiny bubbles on top) it seems to be progressing slowly (I think...). And of course to the remaining 1/3 portion, I continued the daily feeding ritual... But how can I be su...	Predict a brick. Bread machines usually operate with the assumption that the dough will double in an hour or so, after which it then commences to bake. Of course we know it will take many hours for a young starter to raise dough, if indeed it does any raising at all(on it's own).
Lessons Learned from Carl's Friends I have started baking my own bread a number of times only to stop after a few loaves. Generally I stopped baking with instant yeast because I never got the flavor I wanted. I stopped several adventures into sourdough but abandoned them when I had trouble getting dough to rise. I had ...	Congratulations on your new Congratulations on your new found success! Kudos for your perseverance too. I recently read somewhere here on TFL that "Baking bread takes patience, and baking sourdough takes patience cubed". I believe the quote was attributed to either Jeffrey Hammelman or to Mike Avery, but I am not po...
Should I give up on my starter? This is day 5 and it bubbles quite a bit but has not risen at all. It is a little cool in my house. I was just feeding once a day... Maybe that is my problem? I used rye flour on day 1 and then ditched 1/2 of it and have been feeding with bread flour. It does smell and taste a little s...	Starter -- Patience Mike Avery said that baking bread takes patience and baking sourdough takes patience squared! I presume you are starting your own starter with flour and water. It will take your a month before your starter has really developed, but you will be able to make bread after about 2 - 3 weeks. If you did...
First starter... confused... Ok, I'm using the 1 cup unbleached white bread flour to 1 cup water method... I'm using tap water, but it's from our well and there is no chlorine or chemicals added. After the first day I could already see bubbles and by day two there we quite a lot, but the volume was not 'doubling'. ...	Doing fine, Ken Don't worry about "catching" yeast - there's plenty of wild yeast present in the flour - about 13,000 of the little beasties per gram of flour. Well water is great as well. If you want to see a bit more action, add some rye or whole wheat flour to your bread flour refreshment. Preferably organic. Yo...
Sourdough Help Hello people of the fresh loaf, I am in need of help! As you can see the image attached, my sourdough is alright but nowhere near perfect. I cant seem to be getting the "ears", and if it is possible I would like for the dough to rise higher and not wider! Any advices? Recipe used400g HP flour100g whole w...	Time Hi,your bread crumb looks very nice! Very nice.I haven't tried your recipe, so I can't judge it, but if your loaf flows and spreads in the oven, then you proofed it for too long.If I had to bake such a loaf, I would place it in the oven after 1.5 hr proof at 30C. Your dough doubled during bulk fermentation and pro...
Sourdough starter question Hi Everyone, I have a question, hope someone knows the answer. Would there be any noticeable difference in the taste of a loaf if the loaf is made from a starter that has been made and refreshed with AP flour (KA) and one that has been made with Peter R.'s starter using high gluton flour for ...	Bake two Hi Jean, Why not bake two loaves of bread using the same recipe but each with a different starter, then do a blind taste test? Using unbleached hi-gluten flour for a starter is expensive if it's fed every 12 hours.
100% and 50% Hyd. Starters HI All, I am new to Sourdough and have been looking at this site for the last couple days. I made a starter about 9 days ago. The starter is very active and I can not wait to start making bread. I would just like some clarification on a couple things. The hydration % of my starters, feedin...	Starter Hydration Welcome Captain! I've certainly struggled with some of the same issues you're having. Let's see if I can help. The hydration formulas are all based on weight, not volume. For example, a 100% refreshment could have say 20 grams of "mother" starter (to seed the growth) then 40grams of water by weight a...
ciabatta with discards wont come together?? Long time reader, first post! I was making another batch of Jasons quick ciabatta, and i used two cups of 100% starter discards with the measurements called for. 500g bread flour,475g Water2 tsp yeast15g Salt+ 2 cups 100% hydration starter discards I mixed the water and ...	Salty Wow!! 3% is a lot of salt. Don't see anything else unusual except that I usually keep my Ciabatta hydration at 70 - 75% and your formula is something over 95%. Footnote: I neglected to factor in the poolish so the salt is closer to 2% (something like 2.4% by my calcs.) so that isn't as much of a "Wow" factor as...
moldy starter! Im so irritated, Ive had a good starter going for several months now and I just opened my container and realized its covered in mold all around the lid and inside! There wasnt any mold on the starter itself though.... Is it ruined or can I still salvage it???	I'd chuck it and start over. I'd chuck it and start over. You don't want to mess around with mold spores.
liquid vs. stiff starter I'm new to sourdough baking. Haven't done it yet, actually..... but want to get into it. I've seen recipes calling for both liquid and stiff starters. Which is best for a newbie like myself? Are they interchangeable in recipies, quantities, maintenance, etc? If this has been covered, please pro...	sourdough starters are probably the most talked about subject on TFL--there are likely 100 threads, or more here on TFL. Use the search engine in the left hand column of the homepage. David G P.S. Don't expect black and white answers. There are many approaches to sourdough; each, theoretically, leads to the elusive per...
Success! My most sour sourdough, yet. This forum has been so instructive on ideas and techniques and I have pretty much been a lurker here for over 2 years. I have been obsessed with sourdough for most of this period, however, my own efforts--while pretty good flavor-wise--were not the tangy sourdough i craved from my...	Secrets of Sourness What do you consider the reasons for your success? I'm on the same quest, and the best I can do so far is mildly sour.
Counter or fridge the poolish I started a pollish yesterday with the intent of finishing some ciabatta today. But work went way late. Should I fridge the poolish or counter it? I hope to get to it tmrw eve. But it maybe Saturday. It's a variation on the J Monkey ciabatta recipe from here.	Refrigerate poolish if Most KAF recipes call for the poolish to be used within about 8 - 14 hours. 16 hrs max. If you know you will not be using within this period, it should be refrigerated. After 16 hours at room temp, I have seen advice there to just discard. There are exceptions, but this recipe probably isn't one ...
sourdough challah dough really sticky? I just mixed up a batch of Maggie Glezer's sourdough challah using the recipe posted by zolablue. In her post, she stated that This dough is very firm and should feel almost like modeling clay. If the dough is too firm to knead easily, add a tablespoon or two of water to it; if...	My dough is pretty sticky, My dough is pretty sticky, too. I have made the recipe with at least 1/3 whole wheat and it is still sticky. Also, the braid strands tend to kind of 'melt' into each other and do not stay as distinct as those from a regular dough. After a couple of attempts, I put these loaves into a pan i...
Seed culture help needed ! I'm trying to make Peter Reinhart's seed culture (page 229 BBA) prior to making barm for Panettone (page 203) I am on day one , I've carefully weighed 4.25 ounces flour and 6 ounces water and mixed them together .I now have a sloppy batter - a far cry from the stiff dough that I am then suppo...	I can see before mixing it that it will be sloppy if using AP flour because the weight of the flour is less than the water. Not a big deal so don't worry. But this is about getting a sourdough starter started, I think you have at least a week or two before being able to use it in a panettone recipe. Are you using a ...
When should I feed my starter? Beginner here... Hi there, I'm an absolute novice, who inspired by "Tartine Bread," mixed up my first starter two weeks ago. I used the formula of equal parts lukewarm water to 50/50 mix of WW and AP flour. Although my starter bubbled now and then after daily a.m. feedings of equal parts...	At room temperature I feed my At room temperature I feed my starter once per day, at roughly the same of day. In the fridge, ~1 per week.
Is it just me, or is Instagram wrong? Good Breadpeople of TFL, I'm deeply confused. Whilst on my sourdough journey, having learned a lot about what constitutes good fermentation I have come to realised that some of the fantastical aesthetically pleasing breads I see on social media are in fact, a lie. Or... At least I ...	Not all IG bakers I don't follow a lot of Instagram bakers, but there are some that are creative and talented bakers who don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush (even if some of them also happen to make the crowd pleasing aforementioned hugely open crumb loaves!).I'd recommend fullproofbaking (Kristen Dennis), ...
Lalvain du Jour pain de campagne : need help Hi, I am looking for the french type powdered starter 'Lalvain du jour pain de campagne' (LA 2). King Arthur used to sell it but they don't carry it anymore. They have another french starter, LA 4, which produces a stronger, San Francisco type flavor. Can someone tell me whe...	Thank you, Moehound.I am Thank you, Moehound. I checked the site you mentioned and all the starters that they have need to be fed regularly and maintained as wet starters. I am looking for the dry, ready to use starter that contains yeast as well as bacteria, the kind that does not have to be fed regularly to maintain....
First Attemp at 1,2,3 Sourgough I have been bread baking artisan style bread for about 4 weeks and my sourdough starter is very ripe and goes 4X in about 12 hours wih a 1:2:2 feeding. I have been making the Norchich sourdough with fits my schedule very nicly with the 5 hour prep to fridge and then 16+ hours before a co...	Is it Boken? As they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". That's a mighty pretty loaf of bread you have there and if the flavor and texture are "on spot" I wouldn't change a thing.
Floury, bland tasting sourdough I'm working with the Tartine recipe. I get a floury, bland, almost "raw" tasting loaf. Baked loaf is beautiful. Good rise. Nice, expanded slashes. So shaped loaf rise must be on the mark. I know I'm baking long enough. All I can think of is insufficient bulk fermentation. I'm ...	More starter info please. Feeding, temps and rising times. At this moment, sounds like the starter has plenty of yeasts but the lactose beasties are not being allowed to put out. How brown is the crust?
Tartine Country Loaf, one step at a time: Starter I've been feeding my starter for more than a month and have baked the Tartine Country Loaf recipe four times; all failures. I started another thread asking for help with making this recipe but it's turning into an epic. There are so many variables and so many steps that...	Is it cold? I think you're on the right track by discarding most of the starter and then feeding it. If I'm not saving the leftover starter for another recipe, then my own routine is to tip out everything except a thick coating that lines the walls of my jar and then add the flour and water (my guesstimate is that I'm...
Artisan Bread Every Day - crumb issue Greetings Everyone, I have baked a few sourdough loaves from Artisan Bread Every Day and have not gotten the results I have expected. I believe my starter is good, because I the flavor of the final bread is great. I am just not getting much lift. The crumb is very dense and gu...	Same for me Todd, I got the same results from that book. Some folks on this blog have remarked that it is due to not having the dough out long enough from the refrigerator. After several attempts I gave up, sold the book, bought Bread, and had numerous successes. -a
Super-glue My 17% rye, 83% high grade wheat, 70% hydration dough sticks to forms no matter what I try. I roll shaped dough in flour (tried different ones), put it in the forms and leave out for the final proof. The dough starts pushing itself into the corners and forms a tight seal at the very top of the form as it ris...	Oil? Have you tried lining the forms with lightly oiled parchment or similarly prepared plastic wrap?
Crustless bread What do I need to change to make the crust softer? Does anyone know how to make bread with crust so soft it's almost like crumb?	Cut off the crusts? Or brush them with butter.
How many days (please tell me days) can I wait to refresh my room temp starter culture? How often does my active culture need to be refreshened? I have a small ball of mother starter (60 grams) sitting in my crock (which I found at an antique shop: says "Authentic San Fransisco Sourdough Starter"... how apropos is that...	I used to feed my starter I used to feed my starter that sat on the counter once a week but I used a courser ground whole wheat to feed it. I figure that the courser grind kept the yeast and bacteria from eating it all up in hours. You can also out the starter in the fridge and then you don't have to worry about feed...
Please help - Tartine Basic Country Bread Tartine bread is the best I've ever had. When the book came out I had to try to make it at home. This is the first time I've tried to make bread and it's been really tough! People on this list seem to have a lot of experience and are able to diagnose issues; I hope you can hel...	Night before bake make leaven: 1 T starter + 200g water + 200g 50/50 flour mix (whole wheat and white unbleached bread flour) Morning of bake make dough: 200g leaven + 700g water + 900g white flour + 100g ww flour 40 min autolyse Add 20g salt + 50g water Bulk fermentation 3-4 hours at 78-82 deg F. Turning every 30 min...
Length of time for starter build? I've been noticing, while using more book recipes from places like JH's " Bread" that the directions call for a 12-16 hour build after adding mature starter to build the leaven. Since the leaven is peaked, doubled or quite puffy, depending on the hydration and if it is rye or wheat, th...	I think variations... ...in flavor and texture are subtle; e.g., increase the amount of pre-fermented flour 15%, you'll get a 2% change in overall flavor. (It is imperative, at this pause, to remind you that 87% of all people make up their own statistics.) Nonetheless, Most of my sourdough formulae contain approximate...
overfermentation Hi thereIf your dough is spreading too much after bulk (during bench rest) , and after retarding in the fridge for the final proof does it neccessarily mean it's overfermented? thanks cc	Not neccesarily. I have had Not neccesarily. I have had several loaves spread flat even when they were underfermented. It could mean the hydration is to high though.
Blown out loaf Hi guys, I just learned the term 'blow-out' and I believe that is what happened to me this evening. I am hoping someone can look at these two pictures and tell me where I may have gone wrong. Thanks in advance. 100% AP flour 58% water 17% peak sourdough starter (100% hydration) 2% sugar 1% salt ...	shaping method how did you shape the loaf before putting it in the pan?
Hamelman's Five Grain Levain This is a half recipe. I baked the rolls first with a disposable roaster over them for steam (spritzing them and the bowl with water first), and when those were done (should have baked the rolls a bit longer), I put in the bread with the bowl over it. Also, I didn't have any high gluten ...	Those look good, Mary Clare It looks like you had pretty good oven spring in the loaf and the rolls. How was the taste? Happy Thanksgiving. Paul
Starter doubling on the 3rd day - Help !! Hiee, I am quite new with raising a starter. About a fornight ago, i tried to make a starter with water and ryeflour as explained here - http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10251/starting-starter-sourdough-101-tutorial I followed things to the letter T but on 4th day i saw alot of...	wrong link.. Sorry it is not northwest starter - It is http://www.northwestsourdough.com/ Mistyped the link...
My 71% 1,2,3 loaf is sticking to my proofing baskets The first time I used the bigger baskets I did not have to flour it and I had no issue. Today I tried to do a non-fridged 1,2,3 loaf and I did flour the basket but it stuck pretty well. I also had trouble with my wicker basket but I did not flour it all the way up. C...	Two Points The only things I can add (or differ on) relative to MichaelH's comments are: 1. Concentrate on 1 loaf formula until you perfect it. Then move forward one loaf at a time. 2. If you must use a proofing basket and sticky dough is a problem, line the basket with a well floured towel before putting the dough...
Amount of starter Why is it that Peter Reinhart most often uses a small amount of sourdough starter in a recipe and Nancy Silverton a large amount?	I don't have either book! Does Peter use a small amount of starter to make a medium-sized amount of an intermediate thing ('poolish', 'biga', 'sponge', there are many names for these things) which he then adds to the final dough? You never want to dilute your starter TOO much, since you'll wind up creating a hostile en...
Dan Leader starters: Bread Alone vs. Local Breads I have both Leader's Bread Alone and Local Breads. I've been maintaining my starter per the instructions for a liquid levain in Local Breads. I've wanted to use this to make some recipes out of Bread Alone, but I'm not sure how they convert. I was surprised to see t...	Use a small first build You can convert any starter hydration to any other by using a small pre-build as the mother starter. Say the recipe calls for 120 g of a starter kept at 70% hydration. Just make a prebuild of 10 g of your starter, 70 g of flour, and 50 g of water. Ignore the hydration of your starter and its ...
Carl's Starter I have some unreconstituted Carl's starter saved in a jar for about a year. Is it still useable?	Carl's Starter From Carl's Starter Brochure (see the website) Set aside at room temperature till it gets brittle - may be a few days. Break into small pieces and grind in a blender, coffee grinder or food processor. There you are! It will keep a long time. The yeast has sporulated and will stay that way for years....
Sourdough Starter and Artisan Bread in 5 minutes a day Has any one tried to use Sourdough starter to make the Artisan Bread in 5 minutes a day. My wife is doing Team in Training and I want to be able to bake 10 to 20 loafs a weekend to sell. I was trying to stream line some of the process and having dough already to be...	Are you sure? Are you sure you are ready to attempt to start selling bread? You might want to think about it before you jump. Having seen your past posts it is apparent that you are a new at baking bread and have had a lot of problems. This is understandable for a new baker, but your questions would lead one to believe...
My first success... and a few questions. I used organic grapes in my starter and it got going a little too quickly. After 4 days of feeding once daily it had developed far too much acid. The dough was fascinating, I've never seen such a sticky mess. Anyway, after a little deduction thanks in no small part to this websi...	Welcome to TFL And congratulations on your nice bread. Perhaps Debra Wink's article on lactic acid may be of interest to you. Also check out her writings on pineapple juice. Not sure what you mean about your oven being "horrible" for breads - are you using an oven thermometer?
Maintain starter through cold weather I'm looking for advice on maintaining my starter now the cold weather is here in Canada. During the summer my starter is quite active and I can leave it in the fridge for the week and take it out for use on weekends...I feed it 5 (starter) 15 (water) and 20 (flour). Now it's colder...	60F works for me Hi Jackie, I keep a firm starter and don't like to refrigerate it, so I had been feeding it every twelve hours. I'm indebted to Pat (Proth5) for passing on a tip she learned at the sourdough lecture at IBIE: feed it, let it ferment for a bit, then hold it at 50F for up to 72 hours. I have an unheated ...
Complete fail with enriched dough I tried to bake the Greek Easter bread a couple of days ago (tsoureki). I wanted to follow the recipe from Akis Petretzikis, one of the famous Greek chefs who shared a popular recipe for this style of bread. The only difference is I wanted to convert it to sourdough, here is my formul	ERROR: type should be string, got "https://fgbc.dk/1itoI made a stiff 50% hydration starter from my rye starter, and including the final levain build included in the formula, it went through three refreshments between 100% hydration rye and being used in the dough. Mixed everything and veloped lovely strong and smooth dough, incorporated the butter, the dough was really pleasant. Left it to ferment. I knew with this sort of enrichment not to expect a quick rise, but having mixed the final dough by around 14:30, there was no movement until night at warm temperature - kept it around 28°C I think. I just left it at 24°C overnight - and still nothing! The dough was still strong, but started showing light signs of degradation. I kneaded in a packet of IDY dissolved in a splash of water, left it for 2.5 hrs, there seemed to be a tiny bit of rise - I should have left it longer to rise properly after all, but I was worried about gluten degradation after such long time, and rushed it, so shaped it, proofed and baked - and it came out super dense with a gummy part in the bottom. But that's not really important - what I want to understand is, how can there be no visible rise (≤5%) in around 20 hrs of fermentation with 46% prefermented flour? I understand enriched dough with sourdough can be challenging, but I thought having a large amount of prefermented flour in a stiff starter, warm environment and plenty of time would make it work, but the complete lack of movement was really shocking!"
I want to learn more I have been making the Norwich sourdough 2 weeks in a row now. I spend about 6 hours last night getting the dough into the fridge. I did not mind but this brings lots of questions to mind. Here are a few 1. How quickly in the process could I have put the dough into the fridge. If I was falling asle...	some answers 1) The way to think of refrigeration is that it's taking a lot longer for the starter to do what is going to happen one way or another anyway. An overnight stay in the refrigerator will probably not hurt the dough, so long as you allow it to come up to room temperature when you pull it out again, or knead ...
Rye Sour Question A question for the rye sour mavens. I have read many blog posts and threads about rye sour, but now I can't find the answer to this question. I'm making a whole rye sour, using Brother David's approach (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6145/sour-rye-bread-norm039s-formula#comment-41956). I think I ...	I have been keeping a rye I have been keeping a rye sour for a while now. My procedure is simple. The sour, at 100% hydration, is kept in the fridge. When I'm ready to expand it for use, I move it to the counter to warm up. When it is visibly bubbling, I pour 100g into the mixing bowl. The remainder, I feed with 50g e...
Starter problems I have been making sourdough for several years. My original starter went bad due to a period of several months were I stopped baking and neglected to take care of the starter. I ordered a new dried San Fransisco sourdough starter. I followed the directions which were to feed with 1 cup flour and 3/4 cu...	I started my starter about 5 I started my starter about 5 months ago and, I think, lucked out with it. One very important thing I learned, is that when you feed it use ONLY filtered water. The chemicals in tap water will kill all the good beasts in your starter. I am also very careful about using only clean utensils wh...
Using sourdough to flavor other doughs Hello, Some have talked about using leftover sourdough to 'flavor' other doughs. I wonder, how much you would or could use in a one loaf recipe, and what adjustments, if any, you would make in the recipe. Thanks! Mary Clare	I've used it to flavor sweet breads,muffins and pancakes I've used it to flavor breads such as zucchini or banana bread but I haven't used it to flavor a yeast bread. Old sourdough (not fed for a while or sat around warm for a few days) can have a high level of enzymes that quickly degrade the gluten and cause the loaf...
Sourdough pasta proofing Hello, I have a sourdough pasta dough made about 24 hours ago and stored in the fridge since. The dough which I improvised from a couple of online sources looks convincing but I'm unsure as to what proofing schedule I should follow. Formul	400g strong Canadian white bread flour 100g 125% sourdough starter 1/4 cup olive oil 8 egg yolks. Any advice? Tom
I am getting very discouraged I froze my healthy starter over what I thought was going to be our usual too hot to bake summer (it wasn't, but that's an inexplicable occurrance) and then thawed it out slowly in the refrigerator. Both the rye and the white starters seemed to have died - I tried feeding them, the rye was...	Best way to freeze starter? How did you freeze the starter? From what I've read online, the proper way to do it is cultivate the starter so that you have a fresh batch, fully active, near peak, and then smear starter across some parchment paper. You want a thin film of starter. Let it dry; scrape off the dried starter ...
Browned base??? Should my sourdough, once baked, be browned on the base? I don't have a proper stone to bake on. I'm using a terracotta tile. None of my loaves have been browned on the base. Is that normal?	The easy way to ensure you The easy way to ensure you get a well browned bottom crust is to make sure your tiles are good and hot by thoroughly preheating them(along with the oven, of course). I use a 5/8 inch stone, and bake mainly rolls, lately. I find I must preheat my stone for a good 25-30 minutes to ensure the bo...
How to ruin a perfectly good starter So I came home and threw on what I thought was the bottom oven. After about 15 minutes I notice a fairly bad smell. All of a sudden I go to the oven and there is my starter sitting in a 500 degree oven. The controls are too easy to mix up between the botom and top. I am soo glad I h...	I don't know if they still sell them but what about a baby bottle warmer? Yogurt incubator? Have you checked the cupboard over the fridge? Or how about using a thermos type coffee cup and use warm water when refreshing, it should stay comfy in there. Oops, dangerous without a warning label. You could also go back ...
starter in my cold house? I would like to try making a starter from freshly ground whole wheat flour. My house is set for 60 degrees at night and goes between 65 and 68 on most days. Will my starter just take longer, or is this just too cold to do this?	Definitely not too cold Just be patient and allow the wild yeasties and lactobacilli time (up to 2 weeks) to get established. Larry
How much Starter should I keep OK So now my starter is nice and viable. I am trying to get into a phase of feeding and using. I am planning on making some Norwich every weekend tell after thanksgiving and I need 390 grams for the recipe. My issue is: 1. Should I even attempt to refrigerate my mother starter (I have a...	not a lot I try to keep 20-40g of starter on hand when it isn't being used, that way I don't have to feed it nearly as much flour when I do my maintenance feedings, which are generally close to 1:1:1 depending on how sour I want it to be when I do use it. When it comes time to build it up for baking, I will feed at a m...
under proofed? over proofed? Handling issues? Something else?? I’m feeling a bit embarrassed here, but I cannot say if this bread is under-proofed or over-proofed...Can somebody help me figure out what went wrong? Here’s what I did, based on Trevor’s Champlain sourdough bread recipe:http://www.breadwerx.com/champlain-s...	excellent crumb. That bread looks great to me, especially the lacey crumb.What is there about it that you want to improve/change ?--I note that you are in Canada. What flour or blend of flours are you using to approximate the US bread flour that Trevor would be using? Does he say on his web site what brand/type/protei...
Can I measure my starter... Using volume rather than weight? I want to make some sourdough but don't have a scale yet and every recipe I come across measures it by weight. I understand that the weight/volume will be different according to the hydration level, I have a 100% hydration white starter.	Is the recipe a formula or guideline? If you want to use a recipe as a guideline-use volume. This is how I do a lot of everyday cooking/baking. SOmetimes the outcome is inconsistent (but delicious) from one preparation to the next because I know enough about the interaction of ingredients to get a good outcome (usuall...
starter smelled like yoghurt I should have known something was wrong with the starter. After an overnight to make a starter, it smelled like yoghurt and there were no bubbles at all. No rise in the oven. I guess my starter was too ripe, but I am not sure.Lesson learned: when you are not sure about the started: stop the...	Unappetizing. It doesn't sound as if anyone would want to eat it.
Starter sour but NO activity I have several starters and bake with them often and I've never seen a starter problem like this. I took a sample of my brother-in-laws starter home with me last week.I had originally given my brother in law some starter 1 year ago and he was baking with it every week and maintained it with...	I think you're right Even if the flour introduces new yeasts, the bacteria profile is in the starter sample. This will lead to a selection of the yeast that will build and grow in the starter. I would bet that the starter will come back and very similar to what it was before. A BIL starter. You will have to handle i...
Starter Problems I have had my starter for over a year now and it worked and still works wonderfully. however I have noticed a weird change in smell and also there is a thin film or membrane kind of thing on top of it. It happened to both starters the wheat one and the rye one. I usually feed the starter before I am ba...	Hi Noor, Have you altered any Hi Noor, Have you altered any of the following? 1 - Feeding schedule 2 - Flour Type / combination 3 - Proofing temperature? Remember, Stater is a living culture that is effected by any variation, such as ambient temperature, feeding schedule, etc. Khalid
When to begin using starter? I'm in no rush but when is a good time to start using my starter? It is 12 days old right now and doing very well, it's a 100% hydration starter if that matters.	does it have a sour smell if does it have a sour smell if so you can start using it if it's been 12 days
Help -- No activity in my new starter! I am an absolute newbie to making starter. I just got the new Tartine book and have been following their instructions. After the initial 3 day period I got the exact foamy results as in their pictures -yeay, on the right track! Every 24 hours since, I've been discarding about 2/3...	More time,patience and warmth needed Hang in there and keep going. Make sure you stir some air into it once in a while. Yeast is a lot less active in cooler temps.Try finding a warmer spot.The top of the refrigerator is actually about the perfect temp since the heat from the coils rises. ANother place is in the micro...
Starter I have had my starter for over a year now. I have only used it a couple of times, without much luck. I may have used it too soon or I did not feed it properly?? My question is, how do I treat my starter before I want to use it? Do I feed it the day before, or 2 days before and leave it out of the fridge....	You've come to the right place There certainly is a lot of information here on the care and feeding of a sourdough starter if you're ready to do a little reading. I just can't type fast enough or explain it all succinctly enough to give it all to you in a short posting. All you have to do is look for the Forum at the t...
sourdough starter hey all i started starter on tuesday fed it on thursday cause on tuesday i didn't make it til around 8.34pm and i gave a day to grow using the formula from a book called bread baking: artisans perspective it called for 100grms of rye and wheat flour and 180grms of water but unfortunatly the starter o...	Makes no sense I'm confused. You say your started the culture on Tuesday at 8:34 p.m., then fed it Thursday - which is what Mr. DiMuzio instructs at page 72 of his book (waiting 24 hours). So how did it dry out on Wednesday if you were able to refresh it Thursday? If you will re-read page 71 of Bread Baking, an Arti...
Lessons learned I hop So I tried to do the Norwich Sourdough this weekend. I missed one important step. After forming the balls I was supposed to let raise before putting in the fridge. After 4 hours I took one of the 2 loafs out of the fridge and tried to let it raise. It grew some. So I decided to throw it into the o...	direct fridge-to-oven should be okay Taking a fully proofed loaf out of the refrigerator and sticking it directly into the preheated oven (without first letting it "warm up") should work just fine. Sometimes folks use this technique as part of working their baking around particular schedules. Once in a while it's even ...
Ultimate Sourdough Baguettes - Questions Today i made this wonderful baguettes from KAF. here is the link : http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/ultimate-sourdough-baguettes-recipe the flavors was great and more importanat it is vary quick receipe. however, I have several questions about the process. 1. why adding ...	Mystery recipe @ Yuval35 Hi, and welcome to TFL! That recipe is very different from a traditional French baguette in so many ways, it's hard to know where to start. There is so much yeast added, I would assume the sourdough starter is there just for flavor. Sometimes, a small amount of yeast is added to sourdough bread...
Sourdough changed when dried parmesan cheese added Hi everyone, I've been making SD since March 2020, with einkorn flour that I grind myself. I'm not a perfectionist and always like the bread even if its a bit dense. I keep a firm starter stored in the refrigerator and feed it 24 hours before I use it, so its alway...	parmesan is salty You mentioned that the parmesan cheese was very salty. Did you cut back on the amount of salt used in the recipe to compensate for this? If not, then the added salt might have slowed down your fermentation and you had previously been overfermenting your dough. Einkorn is notorious for its rapid fermen...
Help I think my starter is not well So Its been 12 days since I started my Pineapple SD starter. After about 9 days I thought I had a good starter going. It would double and collapse in 12 hours. It smelled pretty decent. On Friday morning I fed it a 1:2:2 feeding and it really looks like my starter has really stagnate...	Are you feeding your starter on a regular basis? That is every 12 hours? How did your experiment come out with 1:4:4 ratio? Debra gave you some good answers at your posted Q here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2#comment-140795 Either you are underfeeding or overfeeding and your t...
Sick Starter Hi. I haven't made bread for a few weeks - I've done this often before and the starter just comes to life the moment I feed it. This time my starters (I always keep 2, in case of problems!) have gone rather hard, with patches of mould on top. I think it is due to having kept some blue cheese in the frid...	Update! The sicker of the 2 Update! The sicker of the 2 starters I have mainly thrown, keeping back a tiny bit which I have fed with water, a small amount of rye and some bread flour. I hold out little hope for this one! The slightly more hopeful one, which at least by this morning smelled slightly more hopeful, ...
Please advise me on sourdough starter Hi all, i have a starter 1/1/1 ratio, yesterday, day 3 i fed in the morning and by the evening it had risen by half its size again. I left it and fed today, day 4 in the morning. Two and a half hours later it had doubled! What do i do next??? Feed straight away or leave it for 2...	Keep Going Keep going. It'll take several weeks before it will be good enough to use in baking. Do not refrigerate until you have a fairly mature starter and just need to take a rest. When you refrigerate it will take a couple of feedings to get the starter going at full speed. See Debra Winks pineapple Solution Pa...
sourdough and buttermilk - culture wars? Does anyone know if sourdough culture and buttermilk are compatible? Would it be reasonable to simply replace some or all of the water in a sourdough dough with buttermilk? Thanks for any insight. :-Paul	My starter IS a buttermilk one. When I refresh it the night before baking, I add two cups of buttermilk and two cups of flour to it, and the starter itself is based on buttermilk.
Doubling the starter I keep my 100% hydration starter in the fridge. I remove it and allow it to come to room temp. I feed it 1:1:1 and use half in bread recipe. Then put remaining half back in the fridge. Is this okay to continue like this or is there something wrong with my method?	I let it double before using it then knock it back, divide it in two, half for using in recipe and the other half to save for next time.
San Joaquin Sourdough I made this bread this weekend and was so pleased with it I had to post some pictures and thank David for sharing his recipe. It is a great bread. The substitutions that I made was I used Gold Metal Better for Bread for the white flour and Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye for the Rye flour. I had been g...	Looks great, Dwayne! I'm so glad you are enjoying the SJ SD! For a somewhat more sour version, try increasing the levain from 100 g to 150 g and cold retarding the dough in bulk for 36 hours rather than 21 hours. If you increase the levain, you might want to decrease the water in the final dough by 10 g or so. However...
Using Start for Quick Breads? Has anyone ever used their start to make a quick bread like muffins? I'm trying to put my start to work in every way possible, but haven't experimented yet with some of my quickbreads like muffins or biscuits. What's your experience with this?	English Muffins The only quick bread I have made with sourdough is English Muffins. That is not real quick either. The recipe I use is from Mike Avery: http://www.sourdoughhome.com/englishmuffins.html I do make buttermilk biscuits, but that uses baking powder and baking soda for levening, not sourdough. Ford

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