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... | a legal form of sex work which could include porn and strippers and body work and dominatrixes and stuff but just not this actual, you know, actual sexual... |
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... | you know penetration or conduct or whatever so um you know it's really hard to say and and Lacey and Larkin they were old all week |
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... | guys they found a paper in Phoenix in the 70s and then you know went on to own dozens including the Village Voice for a while they were |
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... | everything from a law against publishing abortion ads back in the 70s to, you know, laws against where they could distribute, just all sorts of things. They've been sort of suing the government. |
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... | against them in order to get them to do that thing and then use that thing to finalize the case that earlier had been lacking. |
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... | You know, the thing that I had been pointing out from way back when with Craigslist and stuff is like, we had all these examples of like... |
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... | police have said that it's much, much harder for them to now track down traffickers. Um, and, you know, so there's a, something of a potentially open questions. |
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... | So whether or not that means trafficking has actually gone down, which doesn't appear to be the case, or because now police just can't find it anymore. Yeah, because... |
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... | You know, they've done, I think, at least one and maybe several studies about the online ad market for adult ads. And they said there's been no decrease there. Right. And we... |
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... | know both from other things and because it explicitly said so in these memos too that none of these other sites were actually as pro you know they weren't doing any more age verifiki. |
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... | So I think it's safe to say that as many ads as got through for minors on sites like Backpage and Crackslist are going to be getting through on these. |
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... | other less, you know, sort of mainstream sites. And then we have from there exactly like you said, you know, they're not, they're either not based in the US. |
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... | working with the Attorney General because they were just going to screw them. It was like, you know, they were meeting with them every month. They were meeting with them. |
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... | national service, my children, they were, they were just, you know, they were testifying in court cases. They were doing everything possible that when it did happen. |
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... | I was just reading a thing today about how the Department of Justice and the FBI are now going after rub maps and eros |
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-... | in some of the sites that sort of other sites, especially that are oriented towards Asian massage parlors, and they were just complaining. The US Attorney was just complaining. |
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... | that like you know but they're based out of the United States so they're not cooperating with us and it's like yeah because you shut down the people you know you went out of your way to portray the people that were |
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... | you stop trafficking as the traffickers. Right. Yeah. Yeah, no, no. I saw that too. And it is pretty incredible where it's like... |
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... | you know, those sites are, they're accusing a certain guy of running them and he's not based in the U.S. and the sites seem to be registered. |
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... | and in all sorts of other countries and they're complaining about how they won't cooperate at all. It's like, well, yeah, right. You had the one who was cooperating and you're trying to put them in jail. |
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... | and exploited children, working with attorneys general, working with all of these people in order to stop ads for underage people from being posted and to then if they were |
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... | roasted to help bring people who are exploited into justice. |
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... | these seem to suggest that the company actually is a good actor. Yes, and some of the exact sort of... |
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... | for the industry, which is, you know, we heard then from politicians for years, like, oh, no, they were uniquely horrible in letting underage people post. And, you know, the here's these prosecutors saying no. |
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... | Center for Missing and Explaited Children said unlike any other site that has adult ads, they have been helpful and cooperative and they have been, you know, |
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... | just gotten above and beyond on like no other sites had. So they were actually the most useful at helping find missing people and you know bring, bring exploiters of |
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... | What's interesting too, right, is that the Senate report covers the same exact time period effectively as these memos do, right? Yes, mostly. There is a little bit of subsequent stuff. |
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... | in both the Senate report and the prosecution. But for the most part, it's the same time period and the same stuff, which is why earlier when I said, you know, |
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... | the Senate report, they said they got all these documents and they did get some new documents, but so much of what they talk about in the Senate report. |
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... | talk about how it's possible to spin anything against someone. |
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... | memos where they're like, well, okay, but actually we don't have this specific thing, this specific, you know, necessary element to make a money laundering charge, which is what the main charge against them. |
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... | and now is. And then you saw in the intervening years, things like what Sheriff Dart did that I mentioned earlier with pressuring the credit card. |
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... | against them various things that like when Kamala Harris as attorney general of California when they ended up subpoenaing some records and they got various evidence it's like everything they |
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... | did helped obtain these elements that they needed for the charge. But again, not because it was like some wild new thing. It was just like, oh, you'll need this. |
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... | Right. Do you know why the government should not have handed those documents over? I mean, maybe I don't know enough about sort of like... |
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... | Okay, I don't know the specifics. People have, I've talked to lawyers who said maybe they were, who aren't specific to, don't know the specifics of this case, but have said maybe they're arguing that it's a work problem. |
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... | which sort of falls in this exception because it wasn't used in a criminal trial or because it wasn't used in so I don't know. It's something... |
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... | You got your hands on the documents. Yes. And you can see, uh, and we published it along with our article, we published the document, so they're up on reason.com. Anybody wants to look at them. Um, you can. |
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... | on the back page, both then and now. And they also sort of lay out all the reasons why they shouldn't be prosecuted based on evidence that we... |
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... | Thank you to building a case. The first memo was written when they had done a little bit of investigating into back page, but weren't sure yet. And so they were starting the case and they were talking. |
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... | They wrote the subsequent memo in 2013. They had, it said, looked through like over 100,000 pages of internal documents. They had had grand jury subpoenas with six or seven. |
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... | They interviewed dozens of people associated with the site, employees, all sorts of things. And after that, that one is even more strong. |
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... | to read you just one paragraph from that. Sure. Said at the outset of this investigation, it was anticipated that we would find evidence of candid discussions among back page. |
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... | they had a strong incentive to fight it. It goes into so much detail about all the things they were doing, working with the National Center for... |
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... | and editor Rachel Mudder and the sound. |
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... | Food Generic Seafood Marketing Campaign and John |
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... | the next step, which, you know, doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it's. |
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... | And I remember Jean Grasso was... |
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... | the program directors so. |
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... | generic campaign so I don't think |
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... | that has changed. They've taken a different approach and it's been worth. |
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... | nodes once it gets to... |
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... | note though the very first campaign. |
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... | if you just follow the per capita consumption numbers. |
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... | is it produced the eat fish and seafood twice a week tagline. |
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... | in eighty six you have a great graph in that story about when it launched and what happened the year after so the effort |
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... | And that therefore they were trying to hide the illegal activity so that you know, so it was the same sort of thing No, you were damned if you do damned if you don't no matter what you |
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... | actually since recused himself, but that judge agreed and said, no, you're right. You can't use these because they were sent to you accidentally. And even though they are very exculpatory evidence, you can't use them. |
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... | and they're sealed and they can't get out. But Wired published a couple paragraphs in the memos in June and the prosecution. |
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... | tried to have back page defendants sanctioned because they said that they must have shared it. And they said they didn't. And, you know, a ton of people had had that. |
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... | for years going back to Craigslist. We pointed out that if people were actually concerned about sex trafficking, these sites were actually kind of great for law enforcement. They made it much easier to actually find... |
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... | named Backpage in particular quite a few times. Of course, as we've detailed also, the feds actually shut down Backpage and arrested its founders before FOSTA even became law, though only by a few. |
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... | days, though some of the supporters of FOSTA have now tried to rewrite history and pretend that FOSTA helped take the site down. Elizabeth Nolan Brown, who's an |
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... | I'm excited to see the follow up and certainly any other reporting you do on this subject. It's a really... |
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