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really great work and I appreciate all the...
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the stories that you find and work on.
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most worthwhile and interesting stories around privacy and related subjects.
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So I really appreciate that and appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast
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It was my pleasure. And also appreciate everyone.
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not next week, but hopefully soon after and by January should hopefully be back on a regular
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schedule. But thanks for listening either way.
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future work called Working Futures. We talked with some of the authors recently on the podcast, but I wanted to remind listeners in case they hadn't yet checked out the book.
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We've got 14 amazing stories in the collection. They're just really great and we've been getting some great reviews on them with people saying that the stories have really...
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made them think about different things and about what the future might be like. It's we're really, really happy and proud of the stories in the book.
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To the left you'll get to the web page and check it out or just find out on Amazon. It's easy enough And we know that you'll enjoy it
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and blah blah blah whatever to the podcast and we tend not to say that so if you like
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podcast, raid or review or whatever it is that you can do to help promote it. You can just tell people about it. That's cool with us. We would certainly appreciate that.
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can adequately impersonate you in terms of.
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Yeah, I mean security researchers have been able to.
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Yeah, I have been able to kind of free data through this process.
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about other people. And so that's definitely...
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I wouldn't want someone else to be able to get my 400 page file from SIFT. Right.
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Yeah, because then they know, you know, where I like to order my
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I mean we joke but obviously there could be a lot more sensitive information in there or even some of that information that might not seem you know or may may feel sort of innocuous.
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problematic. I mean you could definitely see in cases where people are trying to do like, you know, spearfishing stuff.
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where if they have enough information about you and your habits and things that you've done they could, you know...
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Whether it's like impersonating somebody from Airbnb to try and get you know something else from you or
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was Amazon, right? That sent somebody's Alexa. Yep.
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I would expect a company like Amazon to have a better process in place than that.
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Yeah, so I mean it seems like, you know, so yeah, I'm some
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you know, these new privacy laws while in some sense giving more trends.
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Yeah, I mean can you imagine like you know not being able
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to reach a human being on a 1-800 line because of a comment you wrote 10 years ago. It's...
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Yeah, I mean, that's, my mind was going to like, you could totally turn this into a science fiction story very, very quickly, and it could get pretty dark.
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It's incredible. I mean, it's really interesting.
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email address and invited people who read the story to reach out to me if they got anything weird.
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in their data reports. And a lot of people reach out to me and mostly let me know.
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if they'd filed a request and the responses they'd gotten from the company is...
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because they got so many requests, you know, we needed to hire a third party to do identity verification.
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And so, you know, when I did my request, I had to send a copy of my, a picture of my driver's license and now this third-party company asked for it.
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or copy of the driver's license and the back of the driver's license and you have to take a step back.
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selfie, then you have to take a second selfie. And a lot of people are very upset about this, that they were, you know.
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They're trying to get data from a company.
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wanted to do a follow-up to explain why that's why that's
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interesting elements in its own way because like the
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the identity verification part is a big deal because otherwise anyone else could go in and get all of your data.
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And so, you know, we've reported a few times on how like some of these privacy laws are actually opening up a new sort of attack vector on your privacy.
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but then they would get sold to a company that scores your, your, you know, worthiness.
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I mean, above the law was a more raucous place, certainly, than...
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forever in a company that does this kind of scoring of consumers.
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interesting because I didn't I mean I knew
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about comments because we had, you know, Tectored had been a pretty long-running blog.
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with them not to use them because we were perfectly happy with our own setup.
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certainly didn't realize that they had been sold to this other company, which is I guess
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Yeah, yeah, we do not pass on our comments.
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That's, I'm fascinated by this whole sort of, you know, hidden.
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hidden economy of data. It's really...
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really interesting and I can't decide like there is this element of it that that creeps me out a little.
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which I think a lot of people feel, and certainly seem to be a lot of the reaction I saw to your article.
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But then there's also a part of me that's like, it's really interesting and sort of the neat ways in which that information is used. I mean, I think the sort of...
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to judge me if they are. And that's the kind of data that's missing right now in these data transparency.
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the, uh, reports that you
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bad actors yeah the problem is just when you
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you know, misidentify a good actor is a bad actor.
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it's effectively an insurance policy thing.
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It's fraud, but also doing fraud limiting at the same time.
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that they are not the ones making decisions about people.
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Yeah, it was kind of like a wide range, but yes.
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companies were, even from the very beginning when I was asking the easy questions, were kind of incredibly defensive and I was like wow this is this is easy.
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Zeta Global sent me back all the comments.
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that I had made on Above the Law like 10 years ago because I guess they had bought Disgusts, which was the commenting platform.
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platform that we use. So yeah, they just had all of my blog comments along with my IP address, but they also are in the business of...
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know basically what segments you have me in. And we kind of had a back and forth about whether that is data that's attached.
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But it was kind of a confusing back and forth with them.
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yeah yeah that's that's fashion
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It's also fascinating that they apparently bought...
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discuss or discuss I don't even know how you pronounce that.
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That's what I thought, but I don't know.
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company you at least, you know, for better or for worse, you can blame the...
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It's you know, who knows and you don't know why and you don't get any information What?
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One of the companies I talked to that was fascinating, a company called Riskified, that again does this kind of fraud scoring. They didn't have any...
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I invited the...
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the woman who wrote the complaint to the FTC about these.
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her Microsoft Excel sheet that had like
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records of a transaction like her email address, her home.
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address but it was unclear what she'd bought or where she'd bought it and risked my
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contracts with companies that they have the right to disclose this data. But risk-afide's model was really fascinating.
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to me because they guarantee to a company whether a transaction is fraudulent or not.
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And so there, the company kind of determines whether it can go through.
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Yeah, and they otherwise get a cut of every legitimate transaction that they put through.
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We don't want to prevent people from being able to buy things. We, you know, it's good for our...
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business is good for our clients to allow people to buy things. We're just trying to lead out.
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have either incorrect or outdated.
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information and those decisions are then impacting your lives.
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box concern seems pretty legitimate.
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And it sounds like they...
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to find out about it and that part definitely seems concerning.
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focused on retail equation. And there was a person who had bought cell phone covers for.
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for his grandchildren and he bought them in a whole bunch of different colors so that each grandchild could choose the color they wanted and then he went to return them.
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They said no, and he went to retail.
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It was very unclear why it was that he had been flagged as kind of like a fraudulent returner.
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I don't know how much the cell phone covers are, but for that smart.
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when you've been deemed a bad consumer and you have no idea.
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And you can see how that benefits the people who are legitimate also. So.