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... we were all ripping into them and all enjoying taking the piss out of them. but then there would just be so many moments when somebody would say, "do you know what, though? never been...
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"... kissed really helped me when i was..."
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"... when i hadn't come out at school and i hadn't ever been kissed. and i saw that film and it just chimed so perfectly with everything..."
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"... that i was thinking." or someone saying that when they watch bridget jones, it does make them feel connected to their friends in a way that other films don't.
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or it does make them feel like that thing of trying to exist in this weird space that women have to exist in, in terms of...
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... whether or not they're married, whether or not they're going to have kids, having a job, having a career. and so that kind of made me realize, "wow."
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these are super powerful and there is a lot of positivity to them and a lot of stuff that could be really helpful if it was just...
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... harnessed and channeled in a different way.
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i'm so glad you didn't, because actually i think there would be a real...
H
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... drive to do that or a desire to do that initially. and actually, what you've created is just so thoughtful. and actually, as you were saying that...
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... i was just thinking, for so many and for so many years, rom coms will have been...
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... people, although they're actually only effective of...
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... go in terms of representation and reflection of ourselves. but i guess it also shows that...
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... this can be a really revolutionary genre, or it can be a really reflective and important genre, and kind of a trojan horse genre where it raises...
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... these really important issues. but you have a great time watching it and it doesn't have to be.
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... because it's also a genre that relies really, really heavily on stereotypes and tropes and it's such a sort of simple arc that what...
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... works, and it has worked for as long as there've been stories basically. but by the same time, so it is quite hard to sort of...
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... clash in interesting ways, and can sort discuss this stuff, and where women can sort of be a bit more...
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what they prioritize and how they feel about themselves and the world around them.
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am i right in thinking, i guess, in the way that you described the creation of it, did you make the film...
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think we always had it in the back of our minds like, "oh we'll try and submit it to festivals."
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because, again, that was something that charlie shackleton had done with john [inaudible 00:05:30], so we kind of knew a little bit about how that worked.
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i was not expecting it to get in anywhere, really. and then we were so thrilled when it did.
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i remember there was a point where jeremy and i watched it, and we were like, "okay."
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"the arc works, in terms of the structure, now works."
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but we don't know if it's any good. which i think is very common, especially when you're working on something that's that long form, because i worked in it for...
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... two years. so you just have no idea by the end what you've done. you just know that you've completed what you set out to complete and you hope that it might be okay.
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yeah, so...
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then, at the end of that process, it just felt like the right thing to do was to submit it to festivals.
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because i was planning on doing it all about my experiences with them, but then i sort of realized that i'm very well served in terms of representation in these films.
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and so i wanted to get, and also i'm not a...
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i had written pop culture stuff, but i'm not a critic.
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i haven't worked in the film industry, so i wanted to have people that had a bit more experience of that. but i was limited by things like budget.
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we had no money. we made the film all by ourselves.
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although, i have to say that the incredible privilege of being able to spend two years making a film is something that...
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... i know a lot of people don't have, so i have to acknowledge that. but so i just wanted to have people that had different backgrounds or...
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... would have slightly different perspectives, or i knew loved the films and would have something interesting to say. but i really just reached out to people who i thought maybe would be up for it.
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[inaudible 00:07:57] that i had with them was so helpful in terms of expanding my understanding of the films. but no, that was something i did kind of...
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definitely. it was kind of research as well. so we kind of did a bit, a lot like this where you were doing almost like a podcast...
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... and we was recording it. but at the same time...
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... as i was having those conversations, it was changing things that i was thinking about, and opening my mind in terms of what i wanted to say about the film.
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but i remember that, because i did them over i guess the course of a year, so at the time i started doing them, i hadn't done any...
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... documentary producer. by the time i got to her, i had quite a lot of the film already set up and editing.
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so i knew i was going to have this set piece. we looked at while you were sleeping and how creepy sandra bullets character is. and then i could sort of show eleanor...
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... that clip, and then she could sort of riff on it. and she was just so funny and so great. so yeah, it definitely...
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the interviews became a lot more specific, i think, as they went on.did you know about while you were sleeping before you watched? when you were like...
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i'm going to focus on these particular films because you show...
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...clips constantly throughout and they really illustrate all of your points about representation of gender, sexuality, body types, class, everything. but i guess you hone in on...
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...quite a few specifics. did you know exactly which ones you were going to hone in on or was it just as you were consuming all of these films, which i imagine must have literally just taken you hours and hours...
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...and hours to consume.
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well, i'd watched most of the... so there are quite a lot of films from the thirties and just, i [inaudible 00:00:50]
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...would say in the seventies there weren't that many rom coms, so kind of the thirties through the sixties. most of those i hadn't seen before, so i was watching them for the first time.
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but i was watching them for the first time as i was editing them. so i was like, i'm not going to waste time sitting down to watch this film, and then also watching
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but the later ones, i would say from the eighties onwards, i had seen all of those anyway just as a human being, so...
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...had been struck by how weird it was, and then how to lose a guy in 10 days as well. there was so much...
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... [inaudible 00:01:45] i love that film. i really, really love that film. but there is so much weird stuff in that film and it was such an amazing example for the kind of cool...
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...girl troop that we talk about in the film. and...
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but there were still so many films that i had...
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...films, so yeah...
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you make the point that...
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because it's not a rom com, it's taken seriously and there are other rom coms that could potentially be award-winning, but their net is...
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...was it as you kind of realized that...
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...rom coms tend to follow the same beat? i guess we all know that anyway, but that you realized that that is the case and it is...
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...sexist because it's obviously a genre aimed at women, for women...
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yeah. i did definitely have an awareness...
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when i thought about it, the directors that i would cite would all be men when really i love nora ephron. i would watch every single one of her films, even a film like...
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the witch, which was completely slated, i absolutely loved. so like...
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it made me reckon with my own sort of prejudice i guess about the genre.
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so i was definitely aware of that. but i then did a lot of research, so i read quite a lot of books about cinema, about rom coms, read a lot of articles...
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...which all...and realize that there's this weird thing where...
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...the majority of cinema tickets are bought by women. so women are the ones who go to the cinema more than men...
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but that the majority of people reviewing films are male.
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and i think...
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when i go and see a rom com in the cinema...
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...it's normally a lot busier than when i go and see other films and the response is much more vocal and it tends to be a lot more women sat there, and i really...
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...enjoy that experience, but then the film will be really badly reviewed. and...
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...i guess it's just... but at the same time...
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...it's a difficult thing to talk about because i also know a lot of men who do like rom coms and i know a lot of male critics who really love...
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...rom coms, and who are very supportive of rom coms. and i don't ever want to say that, oh, i don't want to dismiss someone's opinion about a film...
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...because of their gender. that just seems absolutely ridiculous. and you can't be in a situation where only women can review...
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yeah, i do feel like it's a drama that doesn't really...
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...fit in terms of the general sort of...
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...way of looking at films really. cause there's also like...
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...to compare it to the marvel films. the marvel films got incredible reviews...
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but they're like... how can you say that? i don't know. it's just...
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probably all grown-ups watching this ridiculous thing. and then i'll be like, oh no, it's really enjoyable. i can escape and immerse myself in it, so why can't we do that in something that's fun...
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it's also that what drives me mad a little bit about marvel films as well is that marvel films are now sort of the...
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they make the most money i think, and they are, that and scorsese was like...
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...they're sort of the death of cinema or whatever. i don't agree with that, but i get what he meant in that like...
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and the thing that drives me crazy is that they also are attracting the best talent. cate blanchett is in a marvel film, who i consider...
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cate blanchett to be one of the best actors. they are getting the best directors, the best writers. and that used to be happening... that used to happen with rom com.
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it's like if you wanted to get a bum on a seat, you made a rom com and it would be really good actors, really good talent. the...
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...way that people got into movies was they started off in rom coms. and then matthew mcconaughey starts off in rom coms and then moves into more kind of...
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...art house, serious, thriller, whatever, darker drama. and now can you imagine jennifer lawrence doing a rom com...
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like that just wouldn't happen. that just doesn't... they've become so sort of ridiculed. i feel that they aren't attracting, the writers aren't attracting the talent, but like...
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...every meeting with every production company i've ever had, they're like, oh, i really want to make a rom com. it's just like, i don't know, it's...
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cause also they're really cheap to make. but yeah, it's a really weird sort of paradox where...
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there's just this sort of sniffiness about them, and i don't really understand why there's not the same sniffiness about action movies or marvel films...
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...gatekeepers and that in order for... in every kind of... i'm big fan of pop music...
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...and also a big fan of other genres of music, but...
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