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why attempt to discredit the whole thing by saying, "what's news, anyway? just a bunch of cherry picked stories."
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it's pretty shitty, honestly. this simultaneous attempt to discredit educational institutions and journalistic institutions.
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in trumpy times no less.
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there's something pretty fash about it.
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was so rotten that the systems and the gatekeeping is so infected. there's a lot of people that i think are making a sound argument, that it basically just-
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with the people who go on about being able to tolerate different opinions.
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murder, let's not forget. so dave claims that this just means traditional marriage and how it's meant to make us reproduce.
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every time the media would try to sandbag him and try to destroy him, which we saw many times... you guys may remember that one of the biggest moments was when-
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the new york times wrote that piece that jordan is for enforced monogamy. remember that? and everyone made it sound like he wants to basically make women slaves. and we're going to be in the hand-
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maid's tale. enforced monogamy just means marriage. it's been... if you look... actually eric weinstein checked, and on the new york times archives, the only other two references-
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in another conversation, i heard dave and douglas murray were talking about the bad gays. the non-right wing ones. the ones who are trying to destroy-
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western civilization, apparently. and murray mentions how basically, there are no more dragons to slay. and they're just swinging their blades around in thin air.
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guys? homophobia is over. when will you soy-loving libcucks finally get it and move on? just like how we don't really need feminism.
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but it's a very important thing to identify. it was always there. it was there stonewall onwards. it was there before, indeed that. and it's been... and in recent-
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...years, there's something very interesting that's happened with the remaining bit of the gay rights groups, which is that they have become vulnerable to what i-
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for ever more dragons to slay and can't find them or find smaller and smaller beasts. and eventually may be found swinging his sword at thin air. and-
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with remainder of, for instance, the gay press, this is what they're doing. they wish they'd been at stonewall. they wish that they'd been fighting back in the day. some of them did, but they get addicted to the-
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fully acting in good faith, just using the fact that they're gay to promote the idea that there's nothing left to advocate for. and can people just shut up about it already? and the ones-
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that don't shut up are the ones destroying western civilization. that's all nothing to see here, folks.
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goes in today's day and age. why then, can they also complain about sexual abuse and harassment through movements like me too?
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not quite the gotcha you seem to think it is, there, dougie.
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women have the power to derange men with their sexual sorcery.
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that was long and painful to gather and collect and subject myself to, but i hope that you enjoyed it.
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because that would make it worthwhile. i've been wanting to gather a bunch of this crap in one place for some time now, just to demonstrate this scale of awfulness-
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coming from the idw. so thanks to my favorite holiday, there was a reason to do so.
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i also did this episode as a sort of primer for my next one, which will be a collection of many interviews and clips from women in saudi and pakistan.
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who talk about the idw having very real negative effects all the way over there, too. if you happen to find yourself in that position, don't hesitate to get-
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in touch soon. and maybe you could be on the next episode.religious and sexist bigots are now leaning on these influential figures and the ideas that they're peddling.
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to justify such views in countries where minorities don't even have the basic protections they have here in the west.
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a bad example, because though we may not act on them or use them here, countries that do act on them can point to ours and justify keeping theirs.
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note, unfortunately, because these are dark times and real life horrors.
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hello, and welcome to the techdirt podcast. i'm mike masnick.so in this podcast that you're about to hear, i just wanted to make one quick note before we get started-
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which is that we actually recorded this a couple weeks ago. and the idea was actually to put it out right after we had recorded it. so we reference events that we say happened-
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just last week, when actually those are now three weeks ago. we had a little problem with the service that we use to record the podcast...
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which is usually pretty great. had some sort of spectacular failure starting approximately a minute after we finished recording the podcast. and it sort of has-
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taken them a couple weeks to get things back together. and we were able to, more or less, rescue this podcast. and i thought it was a good discussion, even though-
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we had originally meant for it to be released in a little bit more timely fashion, i think it's still an interesting discussion and still worth having. and so that's that. and so-
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that's why, while we refer to things that just happened, they actually happened a few weeks ago. so i just wanted to explain that and that's about it. and from here, we'll go-
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the postings were covered by fair use. and that's an interesting discussion in its own right. as an aside, i think it was pretty clearly fair use.
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but lawyer cathy gellis had raised another issue with me in a separate discussion about whether the interviews are even copyrightable in the first place.
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and so we were discussing this back and forth for a while online. and i finally suggested that rather than just having it be the two of us in the discussion, we should discuss it on the-
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basically copyright preempted that, but the important part was that the ruling made a couple of key points. and the first was that the broadcast of live events does in fact-
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like the score of the game are certainly not protected by copyright. so to me, at least there's little question that the wider broadcast here that we're discussing about the interviews-
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take down notice. so anyway, to try and hash out this discussion further, i asked kathy galles to come on the podcast and discuss why she thinks that before we even get to-
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you have a situation. now you have to issue spot and tear it apart. and one of the things they teach in law school that non-lawyers get very upset about is-
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because i'm a lawyer i'm going to say it is probably maybe, but the fact that it's even something where there's-
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there's reason to doubt that the copyright answer is a clear one. that's a significant thing unto itself. and we can talk about that. but in terms of some of the facts-
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put it on all four sides of the soccer field. now you've got a technical director who's going to decide which camera we should cut to, depending on-
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how the play is unfolding. so that decision about which camera you're going to unfold, that's arguably a creative decision. that seemed to be one that congress was willing to-
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if anyone would legitimately make that argument. i mean, certainly you'd find somebody who could make that argument in court, but i couldn't see a judge accepting that as valid. just because i think-
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we sort of work under the assumption that there must be a copy right there. and you can argue, and i might agree with you that maybe we shouldn't work under that assumption-
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but i think that it's sort so well established that-
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in the same sense, to some extent, this even goes back to-
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the question of why does a photograph get copyright? i mean, that's sort of a related, connected issue, which is like, some people-
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have argued that a photograph, unlike a painting, for example, shouldn't necessarily get copyright because all you're doing is just taking a picture of reality. what the photograph is is-
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just the underlying facts of what you pointed the camera at. and we have historically tapped dance around that and come to the conclusion that because the photographer-
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is sort of setting up the picture and maybe deciding the angle and the lighting and the framing, therefore that gets the copyright. and so you're sort of-
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trying to make that same argument about an audio recording of an interview that because there's no significant when, if it's just two people on a mic-
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i mean, in terms of your general thesis of would any court accept? i mean, we see stuff come up where it's not necessarily clearly resolved, but in photography-
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was it something where it was point and shoot? was it something where, what if you are the person who stages where the camera should be, the lighting and-
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and a creative decision to say, "i want to take a photograph and my will to make this photograph is to give the monkey a photo and see what he does." that may be-
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too attenuated. but in that situation, it was too attenuated, but arguably there, he was arguing that he had least made the creative-
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choice to give the camera to the monkey. if you just press record, are you even making a creative choice equivalent to giving the camera to a monkey to see-
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that's interesting. i'm still-
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i don't know. you may have stumped me. i still think i would be surprised if a court would actually buy that argument, frankly.
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and you mentioned something in passing about the assumptions.
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we have, trump's term, the term is procedural posture, which is basically, where legally is this problem currently residing? what's gone on?
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and whether the take down notices were reviewed or not reviewed, because we know that platforms don't always get to see them. they don't always get to check them. and then even if they do check them-
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they may make very conservative calls. where if somebody says, "hi, i have a copyright." and it's even potentially likely that they do. they may just hand it over.
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whether that copyright is truly in existence or theirs or anything like that.
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so they sent the dmca notice and it's down. and if there's no put back, it is going to stay down. and this archive is going to be lost.
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that's a problem, because we never tested the question. and there's no opportunity to test the question.
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the site that had posted it, factbase, i guess, was going to potentially self-host. if they self-hosted it-
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in one sense, that's worse for them because there's no dmca interface to potentially make this thing go away. i mean, it made the content go away.
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serious of risk, very little by sending a takedown notice. they risk a lot more if they actually have to put their complaint in the form of a complaint.
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sure. but i mean, even if factbase self-hosted i wouldn't be surprised that they just sent a cease and desist letter, which was basically-
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the same takedown notice, but just says cease and desist instead of following the designations of the dmca. and effectively you get the same thing, which is-
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way, because it costs a lot more money to draft the complaint and you put yourself potentially at risk for fees or sanctions or whatever, if it's too terrible. i mean, this would probably-
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not be sanctionable, but that's a bigger deal. and putting it as a lawsuit means that if it actually is adjudicated, we get to figure this out.
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so basically if sirius had filed the lawsuit and the site was in a position to defend the lawsuit, they're going to-
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defend. i mean, some of this pushback on whether it's copyrightable is essentially what the site would push back as its defense.
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i think would, if they thought they had the right on their side, they're going to throw these arguments out and it's going to be more than just fair use arguments. it's going-
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that we infringed your rights on is something that has a copyright. and to the extent that it is copyrightable, that it is also a copyright that belongs to you.
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right, right. yeah. no, i mean, i think that would be really interesting. now, what do you think of the argument that i made in the intro, which was effectively that-
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i think that argument is less strong with the audio, but much stronger with the transcripts. so do you think that-
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still something to discuss because i can see some counter arguments to it, but to say that these underlying elements of the words that trump spoke, there's an inquiry about-
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copying a broadcast. but i think the cease and desist letter is essentially floating the argument that you have converted the broadcast you've just-
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pushing for, if you had to put this in a pleading, what would you argue? and so we're sort of doing their job a little bit for-
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make the argument that they actually hold the valid copyright. and there may be an argument against that. or at least it would be an interesting one to follow.
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and i think, i don't know if it's a winning argument, but it's a colorable argument, is that-
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he brought the show in and of itself. he would start to argue that the show looks more like maybe a dramatic work, which is eligible for copyright than a sporting event.
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actually, because it's what he said. that raises a whole bunch of other issues about any kind of things that people say about-
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you could then see people trying to make the argument that like, "well, this recording of a song is factual because it's the recording of the song."
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how do we best analogize? and so what we're kicking around is some of the other analogies. in terms of your hypo of what if it's-
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[inaudible 00:09:04] that stands on its own. and i mean, i think the argument about whether i've just made the literal copy offends the copyright. i don't think you get very-
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far, but that's not exactly where the infringement was. the infringement was, it was a fricking copy of the song, which was directly a copyrightable work standing on its own.
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eligible for copyright. i mean, that's a fair place for the analysis to go to next.
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i don't think the answer's clearly yes, but even so that would potentially be trump's copyright. unless he had some paperwork that assign-
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trying to put together a compilation of, and i haven't looked at this in a while, so forgive me if i get some of the details wrong, but she was an academic and she was-
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... putting. and she was studying, of all things, gene kelly. she was trying to put together a compilation of gene kelly interviews, and gene kelly's widow sued-
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