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we don't live in a world where animals can't get hurt by us, so you're just not living in reality is my whole point.
N
4.6
3.4
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
so my name is rose, and i have been a vegetarian for the past 25 years. and i recently started eating fish again, and i'm not really happy about it.
H
3.8
4.4
4.4
Unknown
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so, it seems that we actually even agree that for some people, for whatever reason may-
H
5.2
4.8
4.8
Unknown
Unknown
but what i'm arguing is that someone who can go vegan
N
5.2
3.8
5.2
Unknown
Unknown
they are having a symbiotic relationship with animals who are not being harmed and...
N
4
4.8
5.2
Unknown
Unknown
do you agree or disagree with me that if you can go vegan, but you choose to eat eggs or drink milk from animals that you take care of who have-
X
4.6
3.2
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
that people then buy so that they can use the chicken's eggs. most of those places are still going to engage in practices like culling mail chicks, right?
X
4.4
4
3.8
Unknown
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i want humanity to get away from this being normal.
A
4.4
3
5
Unknown
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and so there are going to be farms where people are killing their animals, and-
X
3.4
3.2
4.2
Unknown
Unknown
do you guys actually think society could actually function if we didn't use animals whatsoever-
A
5
2.6
5.2
Unknown
Unknown
i never want any animals to suffer so that i could walk again.
S
4.4
2.6
4.4
Unknown
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just species and mouthy, do you like vaccines?
N
3.2
4.6
3.6
Unknown
Unknown
they're not vegan. they have monkey kidney cells and human diploid cells in them.
X
5.6
2.6
5.8
Unknown
Unknown
it doesn't follow from that that taking the vaccines actually creates more demand for more animal testing to be done.
X
4.2
3
4.8
Unknown
Unknown
and so these companies are then going to become more incentivized to create a vaccine that will reach that group of people.
N
4.4
4.6
4.2
Unknown
Unknown
there's no way, no possible way that a real person who calls them vegan would get a vaccine.
A
6.4
2.4
6.2
Unknown
Unknown
and the few animals that were experimented on.
N
4
3.8
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
yeah. so, firstly, what i'm going to do, because there's a lot of these weird interpretations of what veganism means.
H
3.2
4.2
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
but i would say that vegans in general are never going to take the position that doing anything...
N
4.4
3
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
in the same way that roads kill humans, and we seem to be okay with that as a society because the benefits outweigh the few humans who die...
X
4.8
3.4
3.8
Unknown
Unknown
... as a result of roads existing. in the same way that just because me or inner species is going to say that in some cases-
N
4.2
4
4
Unknown
Unknown
the benefits we get from something like rhodes...
H
4
5
4
Unknown
Unknown
same way that i would be okay with doing the exact same thing to a human. if we could subject a human to some large degree of suffering and-
S
4.2
4.2
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
i'd be completely okay with that, and i think most other people would be, as well.
H
4
4.8
4
Unknown
Unknown
like i said earlier, it's not at all clear that taking a vaccine that was tested on animals is going to lead to demand for more animals being tested on.
X
3.2
2.8
4.6
Unknown
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in fact, the opposite could be the case. if other vaccine companies see that you haven't taken a vaccine then-
N
3.4
3
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
basically it came to the conclusion that only five to 25%-
X
3.4
4.2
4.4
Unknown
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which means that one would be better off tossing a coin than relying on animal experience... animal experiments to answer the question of...
N
4.4
4.2
4.2
Unknown
Unknown
yeah, so my claim is just that if you don't take the covid vaccine, that-
N
4
3.4
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
and there's some chance that other companies are going to look at that and say, hey, there's-
O
3.6
4
4.2
Unknown
Unknown
maybe try and get the endorsement of trump or something to appeal to conservatives who think that the current vaccine is a democrat conspiracy or something like that.
N
4.4
3
4
Unknown
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then maybe we can get these people to take our vaccine and make money from it. and so then when they do that, that's-
X
4.4
4.6
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
- absolutely clear that the act of eating an animal product or purchasing an animal product is going to create demand signals.
N
3.6
2.8
4.8
Unknown
Unknown
if you stop eating animal products, then that's going to lead to-
N
4.4
4
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
you're eating animal products, then you're creating demand signals for that company to produce more animals because they see that people are eating them, right?
N
3.4
3.2
4.2
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the institute of health had been a funding gain of functional research in the wuhan lab. it has shown a spotlight on china's controversial research in the biomedical sciences.
N
4.6
3.8
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
like i've never heard a single vegan who's going to say that we should abolish roads and abolish civilization because roads kill animals and we need to kill animals to...
N
4
3.4
3.8
Unknown
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pretty clearly. it seems to me that the position of veganism is just the position that animals should be treated
X
4
3.2
4.4
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okay. so you said that in some cases...
N
4.8
4.4
4.4
Unknown
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well, it seems like in that case you not eating the one cow wouldn't cause all the other cows to live. now, if you were going to come up with a-
X
3.2
3.2
4
Unknown
Unknown
do you still think it would be bad to subject this one person to some level of suffering if-
O
4.2
2.8
4.2
Unknown
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i couldn't be the one to say, mouthy, you're-
X
4.2
3.4
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i'm going to go to my local store and buy like a hacksaw.
N
3
3.8
4
Unknown
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but, i think that if i went to alex and said, "alex you're never... this-"
H
6
5.2
5.4
Unknown
Unknown
yeah, i would have to kill you to stop you from making the-
A
5.6
2.6
5.4
Unknown
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a few went up to alex and you said like, hey...
N
4.2
4.4
4.2
Unknown
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prevented hundreds of children from being tortured and murdered. and i...
S
4.8
2.4
5
Unknown
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because it might be true that we will never live in a world that will be fully vegan.
N
4.8
3
4.8
Unknown
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i don't think that veganism or a vegan position requires that somebody say that it's never bad to do-
X
3.4
3
4.4
Unknown
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so, yeah, i mean the position of veganism, as i understand it, is just to whatever degree is actually possible and practical. we should be treating... well-
X
4.8
3.6
4.6
Unknown
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now that's not going to mean that we can never do harm to animals. just in the same way that most people agree that all humans should be treated with moral-
N
3.4
4.2
4.2
Unknown
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so, yeah, i mean, me and inner species aren't advocating that we never harm an animal-
N
4.4
3.2
4.2
Unknown
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right? i mean that's really, since the outset, what me and inner species have been arguing for is just that we remain consistent in terms of how we treat animals and-
N
3.8
4.2
4
Unknown
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awesome. i love everything that you guys said today.
H
5.2
5
4.8
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everything is murder. morals are spooks.
X
4.2
4
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did you know the impossible whopper that's offered at burger king made for plant-based meat has enough soy in it to...
O
4.2
4
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
and then utilitarianism is a form of consequentialism, wherein the best consequences cashes out in terms of either the consequence that leads to the greatest amount of overall...
N
3
3.8
4.2
Unknown
Unknown
yeah, i mean, if it sounds like this person is just taking a hard line dantology approach where they're going to say that it's always wrong to subject a being to-
X
4.4
2.2
5
Unknown
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than if, in slapping somebody, you were preventing infinite galaxies of people from being tortured to death.
S
4.8
3.6
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Unknown
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i just want to say that if there was a situation where i had to choose between one ridiculous thing and another ridiculous thing, like this or human torture-
H
4.8
3.6
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in... if we can imagine a realistic situation where that would be occurring-
O
5.4
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5.2
Unknown
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someone is making the decision that this situation is even existing.
A
5.8
1.8
6
Unknown
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yeah, so, i mean, the hypothetical is just meant to show these are the consequences of saying that it's always wrong to do a rights violation, regardless of the-
N
4
3.8
4
Unknown
Unknown
i don't know if it's the most healthy thing for my body, but...
A
5
2.8
5
Unknown
Unknown
i've never done it officially without cheese.
X
4.8
3
4.4
Unknown
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well, firstly, generally we think of killing beings...
X
4.2
3
4
Unknown
Unknown
to torture and eventually eat them significantly decreases utility in that it subjects a lot of sentient beings to unnecessary suffering that's-
N
3.4
3.2
4
Unknown
Unknown
and animals in the wild generally have pretty horrible lives.
N
4.4
3.4
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
not super woke on all the farming practices and stuff. maybe if that were possible, maybe that would be preferable.
H
3.4
4
4.4
Unknown
Unknown
they say, i still have extra characters.
H
4.6
5.2
4.6
2123
Male
hold on folks.
N
4.2
4.2
4.2
Unknown
Unknown
so my to your friends, very excited to let you know about upcoming debates in particular.
H
4.2
4.6
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
amazing! my dear friends. that was a really fun time tonight. we-
H
4.6
5.8
4.6
Unknown
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you guys have no idea how boring my days are, so that when i get to do these debates- moderate these debates, it-
S
4.4
3
4.6
Unknown
Unknown
it is a blast for me, and i just love meeting new people. and, so, cd-
H
5
6
5
Unknown
Unknown
hope you feel welcome and that we were glad that you were here.
H
3.8
5.4
3.8
2123
Male
seriously, i'm so glad to hear that.
H
4.2
4.8
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Unknown
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thank you [inaudible 00:08:10] for your kind words, and i appreciate it.
H
4.2
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that is a huge accomplishment by itself, and we're excited for her as she pursues that-
H
4.8
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guys, i'm excited and i know that other people are going to be excited for it, as well.
H
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i just appreciate you so much, and you have done a fantastic job.
H
3.8
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absolutely love her. that was great. and what she's saying is true.
H
3.4
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bullshit reasons, but we all know what third way thinks about this. they-
H
4.6
3.8
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Unknown
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it's wild to think that third way has gotten along with it's sensible [inaudible 00:00:21].
X
5
2.8
5
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it's giving me life. i'm absolutely loving it.
H
4.2
5.2
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i think that positive reinforcement is incredibly powerful because it's really easy to be cynical and only focus on the negative and the bad-
N
4
4.6
5
Unknown
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that's incumbent on all that. we've got to do two things. we need to definitely have positive reinforcement to make sure that people like [inaudible 00:00:30].
O
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what matters is that you get the word across. you've-
A
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leave a detailed message, including your contact information-
X
3
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your stupid ass, dumb shit comment in chat only made you look like an annoying-
A
5.6
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5.2
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you sound like every other annoying ass vegan that's ever talked to me. all-
A
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your stupid arguments do jack shit to-
A
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[inaudible 00:00:37] i'm not even kidding. they're actually one of the worst charities you could possibly give money to.
A
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which mostly pisses off a lot of people and cements them in the idea that vegans are intolerable assholes who can't-
A
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... who literally don't understand anything about the world and only give a shit about being on a moral high horse-
A
4.6
2.4
5
2093
Male
you are so bad at advocating for veganism that you actually do more harm to the world. like-
X
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2
5.4
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-it's not effective. it actually just pisses people off and makes them want to go away.
A
5
2.2
5
Unknown
Unknown
i'm not kidding.wait a second. hold on a second. wait a second.
A
5.8
3
5.2
2093
Male
and i can't stand people like that. i-
A
5
1.6
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... that, and i know this because i give a shit...
A
5.2
2
5.6
2093
Male