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MSP_POD_NLP

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to where people were saying, look, if you pay property [inaudible 00:03:09]
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deal with. [crosstalk 00:03:16] [inaudible 00:03:17] you don't have to respond to someone being annoying to you. that's up to you. if you can find some way to make it work in your own moral compass. [inaudible 00:03:25].
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i don't know, [inaudible 00:03:29].
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people have. it's just if you develop it or work on it, then you can have it [inaudible 00:03:37].
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a bunch of the arguments about, oh, the government, they just kill people. you know what? we can eliminate a lot of that [inaudible 00:03:45].
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let's say that everyone's clad in iron and, and their plowing fields and whatever. is there anything wrong with that [inaudible 00:03:54],
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this land and pay for it every month or whatever, and give your crops to the lord. [inaudible 00:04:00]
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i think we would agree that that would be pretty wrong. [inaudible 00:04:06].
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yep. i know exactly what you're saying. yeah. if he's going to physically or violently force you to stay, that would be wrong. but if he's just, i don't know [inaudible 00:04:16] [crosstalk 00:04:18]
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do this or you're going to die. that's not him. [inaudible 00:04:22]
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well then why can't they set up a government? why can't [inaudible 00:04:27].
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is that is that the weak link there? or i don't know. what do you guys think? [inaudible 00:04:31].
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yeah. or even if they are born in the us i mean, you don't have to tell anyone that [inaudible 00:04:37].
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who believe in liberty are trying to tell everybody that, if we have liberty, the world [inaudible 00:04:43]
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is going to be a better place. all these things are going to work better and stuff like that. [inaudible 00:04:47].
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i don't know. when you start getting into the hypothetical things, is your enemy [inaudible 00:04:54].
X
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when people sensor on reddit, you can say, okay, well.
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please, quit doing this. you can argue about that as much as you want.
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i think that, more or less extends, to the u.s. it's like it's there-
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and it kind of sucks what they're doing to us, but if that's what they think they should do, that's-
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i mean, i don't know...
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they can be?yeah.
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i don't know.
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say it one more time. maybe another way?
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maybe should you reconsider-
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Male
yeah. i think anything that you're going to believe in and then it just keeps on... [inaudible 00:00:51]
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it's i think it's good to have...
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what happens when you follow the non-aggression principle and then all you have to show for it is that you're miserable and you hate everyone?
O
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Male
maybe then it is the way you're applying it or something, but then, there's also the case of, well-
O
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Female
what's the alternative then?
N
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Male
tim, that's not an argument. that's not a counter.
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if you're paying property tax-
D
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i think that's exactly what i'm saying. you shouldn't treat it as-[inaudible 00:01:40]what?
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but not even that, well, that but-
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the people who were for it are evil and the people who were oppressed by it are about ready to shoot themselves, because they had to pay taxes and i don't-
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i think that might've been a bad example.probably.let me ask you-
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Male
it's hard to say that you're free when you're still chained up, so that might've been a bad example.
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but let's-
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what i started thinking is, well, i want to ask two questions and i don't care which one i'm asking if either-
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where there literally is no government.honestly, even where i am now in my basement-
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how do you know what the heck is going on in people's heads, but-
N
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power isn't always used badly, and that's even true if you want to say that national parks are good-
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then you could say that's true of government even, but i-
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this is kind of weird because a lot of people hate their bosses-
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you don't even know where to start. somebody has to tell you where to start a lot of times. it's not power-
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but-i think i've heard adam shakoes talk about that before.
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i think it's better than saying nothing, but i don't think it's a complete answer.
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i think that this is all the way at the beginning, when you talked about morals-
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i think that's bad just because i think that's bad, and even that is hard to ground, but that's-
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and he gives you some of it and you pay him for it and he provides protection. is there anything wrong with that? do you guys think?
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yes. i just morally go against this and generally people accept that just because everybody does that.
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even with a results-based argument-
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but i think any of the arguing in the end is just going to be-
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Male
just talking about it, now i'm getting onto something completely different. i had a point somewhere in here-
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would be pretty wrong, but yeah, if there's a contract involved, then, then it seems like it would be okay.
U
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you'd still like to clarify what you mean by saying you can't leave, that means that he will forcibly make you stay there, not-
O
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not die, like i'm going to cut your head off and then keep your children as mine and raise them in a fairy tale, where gnomes rescue them from-
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it's been the exact same questions and people write books like this must be-
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the reddit thing is different, i think, than the u.s. because it's happened over a shorter period of time. it's with the same people.
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why can't they be idiots if they want to be idiots? right? i mean, i don't know.
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speaking for me, i don't put that much effort into...
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i don't know. i think it's good to have...
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...principles to stuff, like the liberty principle, or just not...
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i guess, from what [john's 00:09:40] saying, i'm trying to think of a way to put...
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Male
and that's also what you said, john. you're never going to live if you keep searching for whatever, the meaning of life or whatever, so, i mean...
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do you understand the analogy i'm making? i don't know if that was very clear. like if everything you do doesn't work right...
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maybe it is you and not everything else.
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Male
but i'm not sure. can i get you to say that one more time, again?
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tim, that's not an argument. that's not like-
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i think that's exactly what i'm saying. you shouldn't treat it as...dog work.what?
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yeah. but daniel, you don't realize that the rule of government is a mental attack on people and it just makes them feel depressed and everything.
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Male
what i started thinking is well-
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but would you say that anarchy existed at some point? is any of that true? do you guys think?
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i don't know. see, the thing is, i don't even know if the problem is as much-
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that's what i'm saying. it's definitely, i don't think it is bad. i think if there, i don't think it exists otherwise. i mean-
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Male
it's the only way you can really do it. you, i mean, you can say yes, i just-
C
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Male
really, maybe it gets nowhere. i don't know.
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and remember we talk about new and interesting ideas every single week.
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and that closed down, unfortunately, because of fire safety things.
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Male
and that's not a normal situation to be in. that's not a natural situation to be in. and it's something that has to be challenged or...
C
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and that distinction between work and non-work is kind of a distinction.
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and that type of that type of pattern creates certain demands on a person.
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Male
and looking at the activities that you do in quite an instrumental way, as an instrumentalized way, you start to see things around you. not because you're cynical or selfish, but...
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the activities that you do in the present being understood...
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i mean these examples helped her. i was at this innovation academy. the innovation academy is this partnership between trinity and ucd.
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and she was serving wine. and she told me that it was one of the best jobs she'd done as this intern for this innovation academy. and that she'd literally been putting stamps on letters and all the various other menial, pointless tasks you do in internships.
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Male
but she said really openly that the reason she was doing it was because she put it on her cv, you'd have this in innovation academy.
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i think that... is that a surprise? again, i'm not making a judgment about this person, it's-
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in fact, you recognize it has no value, but you do it because it might help you get somewhere in the future. there's this deferral-
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it creates a situation in which you become your own exploiter.you become a self exploiter. you're not mostly exploited at work, you're exploited by yourself because...
X
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and the distinction between work and non-work becomes blurred and this kind of logic of exploitation starts to filter or insinuate through more aspects of our life.
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the result being that you work harder-
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and you seem to be committing yourself more to work, but you have less security, you have less income. we don't have any more income than we used to.
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why is it that now you have a situation that's almost reversed where people are actively investing more of themselves into these activities?
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the most important things in this whole situation, i think, it's this myth or this belief that there's going to be a secure, a well paid job at the end of it.
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this is the carrot that you beat yourself with and there's a group in london called the carrot workers collective have taken that image for exactly that reason.
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there's a third of the workforce in japan of temporary workers.
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and the motto is 'be a regular worker and be exploited for the rest of your life.'.
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and in this book, because it's quite a nice example, i think, because it's something that seems, i think, quite familiar...
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but guy standing wrote a book about the precariat in which he tries to describe how...
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