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... but i've certainly like grown up on the internet, and-
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... it's not even just... if i've published it online, but-
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... just as a diary keeper, like if i've written it down or something. so like, if i didn't-
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... then i'm confused. but then i'm like, well, i can't spend half my day writing about the other half of the day.
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i read an interview with you recently where you were talking about sort of-
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yeah, i agree. it always bothers me. i think there's a list somewhere of like-
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... and i think it, it just bothers me because it's not, yeah. it makes-
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... feminism feel like, "are you with us or against us," and it does sort of boil it down to-
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it makes feminism seem like a buzzword, and not a really complicated movement set of.
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... beliefs-lived experience.yeah, some of that, people's lives. yeah.
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i think one of the things that i really like about rookie is that, the idea that it's a place for
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women to navigate, and especially young women, to navigate these kind of ideas.
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yeah. thank you. that makes me really happy to hear you say that because i feel like i...
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i definitely come from a world where i was a very political teenager.
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i feel like i... i hope i'm learning and growing all the time. but yeah, even since rookie has started,
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i feel like the way that i think about my job at rookie has changed so much just from that feedback from readers, and also from seeing
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something. and someone's phone goes off, and people roll their eyes, and
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it's assumed that young people are on their phones all the time. it's always an older...
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and have come up with it, but my dad is like, "look at this tiny robot."
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but older people spend more time on their phones. yeah.
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and then when they're on their phones too, they never figured out how to turn off the noises that it makes when you...
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i'm bad for generalizing about boomers, and then my dad is like...
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or something? no, he's just a weirdo that i think the first time he ever saw a calculator...
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back in the day, they weren't incredibly affordable, but my dad sort of pieced one together. so he's always, he's actually...
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my mom, now she has an iphone and maybe it's more intuitive, but for a while,
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she had a slide phone, and she didn't know how to delete
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typos or characters she didn't mean to type. so i'd get a text that would be like, "hey," and then...
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my best friend taught her mom how to use emojis, and her mom is one of the smartest women...
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she's the kind of business woman that if you asked me what she did, i'd be like, "i don't know."
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turn her phone to me, and she'll just have a message from her mom that's like...
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i'm really fascinated by your transition from just talking about fashion, to wanting to talk about more...
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i am fascinated by fashion in terms of art, but i've always felt... especially in the last probably like five years,
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i began to feel like wildly alienated by fashion writing, and that whole world where i was just like,
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"and if my ankles look like this..."
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there's this idea around fashion writing
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that's teaching you how to dress for your body or showing you stuff that they're like, "this is cool, but you can't wear it."
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that because i was so young, it's like i wasn't expecting to be able to relate to any of it. so i would
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buy italian vogue, but skip everything until the photo editorials,
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and then i was just excited by it. and i felt so far removed from it,
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felt like i was supposed to look like that because i was prepubescent and androgynous. so
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they were just like dolls or aliens, and i felt like i could just be excited by the clothes and write about
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that. and then when i started...
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not make you
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dislike yourself, and there were some fashion magazines that do that.
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but i was, i guess... i mean, with rookie,
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whenever we have fashion content, it's more like fun diys or stuff like that.
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i love to look at it and go, "oh my god." you put teenage lauren into that. do you know what i mean? it feels like i look at it, and i'm like, "oh
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i even nostalgically relate to this." when i was a teenager, seventeen magazine was definitely just skinny ladies in the bathing suits together.
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don't have stuff that's like... some of it is more about fashion as self-expression and a way of being super creative, and not worrying about
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wearing something flattering. i still also don't want girls to feel like they have to be...
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so that i look more put together, and my skin is even, or whatever. so there's stuff like that too,
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but yeah. and i
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find that even in the past few years, i think because of sites, more feminist minded women sites,
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even magazines like cosmo or elle or a teen vogue have become more friendly to
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women who want more of
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both who don't want to have to choose between fashion and feminism.
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and i think that this sort of
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wave, or whatever we're going to call it, of feminism, where the idea that being
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interested in what you're wearing, and interested in what you look like is not mutually exclusive from being political.
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that makes a lot of sense to me. it's always made a lot of sense to me. i've always been a
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backlash, i mean, there is a backlash. but the idea that focusing on
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yourself is not feminism or focusing on aesthetics is not feminism.
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sometimes the things that speak to me stylistically are because there's some kind of pressure or standard
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i feel i need to meet as to how i look. but i think most of the things that resonate with me aesthetically
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are for other reasons, like [inaudible 00:00:57]
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i really love, or they remind me of a cartoonist
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that i was really into in high school or something. and again, even if it's not that.
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i remember one time in high school, a guy who i often debated with in english class was like...
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[laughter 00:01:19] i felt like it's not the
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age of the dinosaurs and i get to decide what's important to me. this is the world we live in now or your appearance
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[inaudible 00:01:30] completely. so if you can harness that in a way that makes you feel good, even if you are kind of
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playing the game and not just being a fashion weirdo.
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also, i think there's something subversive to what
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feminism is or where a woman belongs in society.
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what the fuck kind of binary's do you live your life by. the cognitive dissonance inherited there is mind blowing, right?
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i said to him, i think it's subversive. if you're a woman and you are
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really good looking and you go out to the bar with not a fucking lick of money in your pocket and you get drinks bought for you the whole night. that's feminism to me. yeah.
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also, i just don't
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care. i don't know, people are doing different things in their personal lives all the time. i don't think that's where the major issues are.
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i'm definitely in favor of,
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and this is sort of a bit of a tangent from that, but i'm definitely in favor of the idea call out culture. but i think that
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being so invested in someone's personal life, that you'd be like, you let a man buy you
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a drink? how dare you? what kind of time do you have in your personal life that you would like police someone in that way? do you know what i mean?
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what we're saying about younger people having more and more access to information on the internet and more of an ability to have a voice is that i
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feel like as much as i have fatigue about
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celebrity feminism, people are a lot more aware and take those critiques more seriously. even if it is for branding reasons.
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i feel like you spent so much of your growing up online, i wonder,
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were you just, especially cause you were so young, it's easy to be very open about who you are. i wonder if you ever got to a
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point where you were almost like, "okay, i've given a lot of myself and now i have to cut it off and sort of just, i don't want to call it blanket [inaudible 00:00:03:45] ,
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but sort of putting up a veneer and being like, this is what you get to know about me and the rest i'm sort of keeping over here." i wonder if there was like a switch for you where
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you became aware of how much of yourself you were putting in public.
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it's always, it's something i think about a lot. i mean, when i started rookie,
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i started it from my bedroom and i didn't understand that, if i would email someone and ask them to do an interview
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for us, like a writer or actress or something, and then they would redirect it to their publicist. i was [inaudible 00:04:24]
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i
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would come home from school and do it. it was my hobby and now it's my job. so now
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i go to the office and then when i go home, i don't check my email.
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but, i also find that when i write something, like my editor's letters,
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if something gets sort of personal, it feels like the exact right safe space to do that.
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i also don't feel like there's this huge demand of people who want to know the details of my personal life.
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