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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
The, the thing that captivated everyone's imagination that we can actually do this.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
So what, how were you captivated in that way?
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
So how did your view of autonomous vehicles change at that point?
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
I'd say at that point in time it was, it was a
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
curiosity as in, like, is this really possible?
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
And I think that was generally the spirit and
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
the purpose of that original DARPA Grand Challenge, which was to just get
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
a whole bunch of really brilliant people exploring the space and pushing the
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
limits. And I think, like, to this day that
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
DARPA Challenge with its, you know, million dollar prize pool
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
was probably one of the most effective, you know, uses of taxpayer
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
money dollar for dollar that I've seen, you know, because that,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
that small sort of initiative that DARPA put,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
put out sort of, in my view, was the catalyst or the tipping point
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
for this, this whole next wave of autonomous vehicle development. So that
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
was pretty cool. So let me jump around a little bit on that point.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
They also did the Urban Challenge where it was in the city, but it was very
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
artificial and there's no pedestrians and there's very little human
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
involvement except a few professional drivers. Yeah.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
Do you think there's room, and then there was the Robotics Challenge with
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
humanoid robots. Right. So in your now role is looking at this,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
you're trying to solve one of the, you know, autonomous driving, one of the
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
harder, more difficult places in San Francisco.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
Is there a role for DARPA to step in to also kind of help out,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
like, challenge with new ideas, specifically pedestrians and so on, all
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
these kinds of interesting things? Well, I haven't, I haven't thought about it
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
from that perspective. Is there anything DARPA could do today to further
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
accelerate things? And I would say, my instinct is that that's maybe not the
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
highest and best use of their resources and time,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
because, like, kick starting and spinning up the flywheel is, I think, what
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
what they did in this case for very, very little money. But today this has become,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
this has become, like, commercially interesting to very large companies and
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
the amount of money going into it and the amount of
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
people, like, going through your class and learning about these things and
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
developing these skills is just, you know, orders of magnitude
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
more than it was back then. And so there's enough momentum and inertia
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
and energy and investment dollars into this space right now that
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
I don't, I don't, I think they're, I think they're, they can just say mission
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
accomplished and move on to the next area of technology that needs help.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
So then stepping back to MIT, you left MIT during your junior year.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
What was that decision like? As I said, I always wanted to do
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
a company in, or start a company, and this opportunity landed in my lap, which
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
was a couple guys from Yale were starting a
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
new company, and I googled them and found that they had
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
started a company previously and sold it actually on eBay for
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
about a quarter million bucks, which was a pretty interesting story, but
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
so I thought to myself, these guys are, you know, rock star entrepreneurs, they've
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
done this before, they must be driving around in Ferraris
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
because they sold their company, and, you know, I thought I could learn
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
a lot from them, so I teamed up with those guys and,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
you know, went out during, went out to California during IAP, which is MIT's
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
month off, on a one way ticket and basically never went back.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
We were having so much fun, we felt like we were building something and creating
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
something, and it was going to be interesting
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
that, you know, I was just all in and got completely hooked, and that
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
that business was Justin TV, which is originally a reality show about a guy
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
named Justin, which morphed into a live video
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
streaming platform, which then morphed into what is Twitch
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
today, so that was, that was quite an unexpected journey.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
So no regrets? No. Looking back, it was just an obvious, I mean,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
one way ticket. I mean, if we just pause on that for a second,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
there was no, how did you know these are the right guys, this is the
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
right decision, you didn't think it was just follow the
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
heart kind of thing? Well, I didn't know, but, you know, just trying something for a
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
month during IAP seems pretty low risk, right?
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
And then, you know, well, maybe I'll take a semester off, MIT's pretty flexible
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
about that, you can always go back, right? And then after two or three cycles of
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
that, I eventually threw in the towel, but, you know, I think it's,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
I guess in that case I felt like I could always hit the undo button if I had to.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
Right. But nevertheless, from when you look
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
in retrospect, I mean, it seems like a brave decision,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
you know, it would be difficult for a lot of people to make. It wasn't as
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
popular, I'd say that the general, you know, flux of people
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
out of MIT at the time was mostly into, you know, finance or consulting jobs in
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
Boston or New York, and very few people were going to
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
California to start companies, but today I'd say that's,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
it's probably inverted, which is just a sign of,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
a sign of the times, I guess. Yeah. So there's a story about
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
midnight of March 18, 2007, where TechCrunch, I guess, announced
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
Justin.TV earlier than it was supposed to, a few hours.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
The site didn't work. I don't know if any of this is true, you can tell me.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
And you and one of the folks at Justin.TV,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
Emmett Shearer, coded through the night. Can you take me through that experience?
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
So let me, let me say a few nice things that,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
the article I read quoted Justin Kahn said that you were known for bureau
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
coding through problems and being a creative, quote, creative
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
genius. So on that night,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
what, what was going through your head, or maybe I'd put another way,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
how do you solve these problems? What's your approach to solving these kinds of
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
problems where the line between success and failure seems to be pretty
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
thin? That's a good question. Well, first of all, that's, that's a
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
nice of Justin to say that. I think, you know, I would have been
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
maybe 21 years old then and not very experienced at programming,
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
but as with, with everything in a startup, you're sort of racing against
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
the clock. And so our plan was the second we had
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
this live streaming camera backpack up and running, where Justin could wear it
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
and no matter where he went in a city, it
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
would be streaming live video. And this is
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
even before the iPhones. This is like hard to do back then.
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Kyle Vogt: Cruise Automation | Lex Fridman Podcast #14
We would launch. And so we thought we were there and the backpack was working
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