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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so I think that the thing that really appeals
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
to me about the digital world is that you
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
can have this insane leverage.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
A single individual with an idea is
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
able to affect the entire planet.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And that's something I think is really
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
hard to do if you're moving around physical atoms.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
But you said mathematics.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So if you look at the wet thing over here, our mind,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
do you ultimately see it as just math,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
as just information processing?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Or is there some other magic, as you've seen,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
if you've seen through biology and chemistry and so on?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Yeah, I think it's really interesting to think about
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
humans as just information processing systems.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And that seems like it's actually
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
a pretty good way of describing a lot of how the world works
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
or a lot of what we're capable of, to think that, again,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
if you just look at technological innovations
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
over time, that in some ways, the most transformative
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
innovation that we've had has been the computer.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
In some ways, the internet, that what has the internet done?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
The internet is not about these physical cables.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
It's about the fact that I am suddenly
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
able to instantly communicate with any other human
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
on the planet.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
I'm able to retrieve any piece of knowledge
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that in some ways the human race has ever had,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and that those are these insane transformations.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Do you see our society as a whole, the collective,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
as another extension of the intelligence of the human being?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So if you look at the human being
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
as an information processing system,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
you mentioned the internet, the networking.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Do you see us all together as a civilization
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
as a kind of intelligent system?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Yeah, I think this is actually
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
a really interesting perspective to take
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and to think about, that you sort of have
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
this collective intelligence of all of society,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
the economy itself is this superhuman machine
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that is optimizing something, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And in some ways, a company has a will of its own, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That you have all these individuals
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
who are all pursuing their own individual goals
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and thinking really hard
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and thinking about the right things to do,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
but somehow the company does something
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that is this emergent thing
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and that is a really useful abstraction.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so I think that in some ways,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
we think of ourselves as the most intelligent things
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
on the planet and the most powerful things on the planet,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
but there are things that are bigger than us
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that are the systems that we all contribute to.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so I think actually, it's interesting to think about
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
if you've read Isaac Asimov's foundation, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That there's this concept of psychohistory in there,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
which is effectively this,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that if you have trillions or quadrillions of beings,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
then maybe you could actually predict what that being,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that huge macro being will do
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and almost independent of what the individuals want.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And I actually have a second angle on this
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that I think is interesting,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
which is thinking about technological determinism.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
One thing that I actually think a lot about with OpenAI,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
right, is that we're kind of coming on
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
to this insanely transformational technology
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
of general intelligence, right,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that will happen at some point.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And there's a question of how can you take actions
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that will actually steer it to go better rather than worse.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And that I think one question you need to ask
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
is as a scientist, as an inventor, as a creator,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
what impact can you have in general, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
You look at things like the telephone
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
invented by two people on the same day.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Like, what does that mean?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Like, what does that mean about the shape of innovation?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And I think that what's going on
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
is everyone's building on the shoulders of the same giants.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so you can kind of, you can't really hope
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
to create something no one else ever would.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
You know, if Einstein wasn't born,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
someone else would have come up with relativity.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
You know, he changed the timeline a bit, right,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that maybe it would have taken another 20 years,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
but it wouldn't be that fundamentally humanity
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
would never discover these fundamental truths.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So there's some kind of invisible momentum
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that some people like Einstein or OpenAI is plugging into
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that anybody else can also plug into
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and ultimately that wave takes us into a certain direction.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's what he means by digital.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's right, that's right.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And you know, this kind of seems to play out
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
in a bunch of different ways,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that there's some exponential that is being written
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and that the exponential itself, which one it is, changes.
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