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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Think about Moore's Law, an entire industry
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
set its clock to it for 50 years.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Like, how can that be, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
How is that possible?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And yet somehow it happened.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so I think you can't hope to ever invent something
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that no one else will.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Maybe you can change the timeline a little bit.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
But if you really want to make a difference,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
I think that the thing that you really have to do,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
the only real degree of freedom you have
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
is to set the initial conditions
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
under which a technology is born.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so you think about the internet, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That there are lots of other competitors
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
trying to build similar things.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And the internet won.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And that the initial conditions
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
were that it was created by this group
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that really valued people being able to be,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
anyone being able to plug in
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
this very academic mindset of being open and connected.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And I think that the internet for the next 40 years
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
really played out that way.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
You know, maybe today things are starting
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
to shift in a different direction.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
But I think that those initial conditions
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
were really important to determine
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
the next 40 years worth of progress.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's really beautifully put.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So another example that I think about,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
you know, I recently looked at it.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
I looked at Wikipedia, the formation of Wikipedia.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And I wondered what the internet would be like
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
if Wikipedia had ads.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
You know, there's an interesting argument
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that why they chose not to make it,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
put advertisement on Wikipedia.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
I think Wikipedia's one of the greatest resources
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
we have on the internet.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
It's extremely surprising how well it works
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and how well it was able to aggregate
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
all this kind of good information.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And essentially the creator of Wikipedia,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
I don't know, there's probably some debates there,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
but set the initial conditions.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And now it carried itself forward.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's really interesting.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So the way you're thinking about AGI
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
or artificial intelligence is you're focused
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
on setting the initial conditions for the progress.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's right.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's powerful.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Okay, so looking to the future,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
if you create an AGI system,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
like one that can ace the Turing test, natural language,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
what do you think would be the interactions
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
you would have with it?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
What do you think are the questions you would ask?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Like what would be the first question you would ask?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
It, her, him.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That's right.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
I think that at that point,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
if you've really built a powerful system
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that is capable of shaping the future of humanity,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
the first question that you really should ask
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
is how do we make sure that this plays out well?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so that's actually the first question
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that I would ask a powerful AGI system is.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So you wouldn't ask your colleague,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
you wouldn't ask like Ilya,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
you would ask the AGI system.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Oh, we've already had the conversation with Ilya, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And everyone here.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And so you want as many perspectives
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and a piece of wisdom as you can
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
for answering this question.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
So I don't think you necessarily defer
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
to whatever your powerful system tells you,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
but you use it as one input
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
to try to figure out what to do.
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
But, and I guess fundamentally what it really comes down to
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
is if you built something really powerful
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
and you think about, for example,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
the creation of shortly after
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
the creation of nuclear weapons, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
The most important question in the world was
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
what's the world order going to be like?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
How do we set ourselves up in a place
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
where we're going to be able to survive as a species?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
With AGI, I think the question is slightly different, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
That there is a question of how do we make sure
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that we don't get the negative effects,
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
but there's also the positive side, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
You imagine that, like what won't AGI be like?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
Like what will it be capable of?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
And I think that one of the core reasons
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
that an AGI can be powerful and transformative
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
is actually due to technological development, right?
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Greg Brockman: OpenAI and AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #17
If you have something that's capable as a human
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