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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I was like, okay, this would be a dream come true, but there's a husband waiting for me
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:45.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in Cairo.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:49.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I kind of have to go back.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:49.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:51.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
She said, it's fine.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:52.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Just commute.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:52.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I literally started commuting between Cairo and Boston.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:54.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, it was, it was a long commute.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:29:59.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I didn't, I did that like every few weeks I would, you know, hop on a plane and go to
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:01.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Boston.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:05.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But that, that changed the trajectory of my life.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:06.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There was no, I kind of outgrew my dreams, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:08.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I didn't want to go back to Egypt anymore and be faculty.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:12.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like that was no longer my dream.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:16.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I had a dream.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:18.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What was the, what was it like to be at MIT?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:19.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What was that culture shock?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:22.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You mean America in general, but also, I mean, Cambridge has its own culture, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:25.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So what was MIT like and what was America like?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:31.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think, I wonder if that's similar to your experience at MIT.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:34.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I was just, at the Media Lab in particular, I was just really, impressed is not the right
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:37.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
word.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:45.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I didn't expect the openness to like innovation and the acceptance of taking a risk and failing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:46.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like failure isn't really accepted back in Egypt, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:54.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You don't want to fail.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:58.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like there's a fear of failure, which I think has been hardwired in my brain.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:30:59.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But you get to MIT and it's okay to start things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:03.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And if they don't work out, like it's okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:05.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You pivot to another idea.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:08.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that kind of thinking was just very new to me.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:09.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's liberating.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:12.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, Media Lab, for people who don't know, MIT Media Lab is its own beautiful thing because
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:13.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they, I think more than other places at MIT, reach for big ideas.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:19.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And like they try, I mean, I think, I mean, depending of course on who, but certainly
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:24.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
with Roslyn, you try wild stuff, you try big things and crazy things and also try to take
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:28.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
things to completion so you can demo them.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:36.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So always, always, always have a demo.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:38.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like if you go, one of the sad things to me about robotics labs at MIT, and there's like
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:42.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
over 30, I think, is like, usually when you show up to a robotics lab, there's not a single
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:46.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
working robot, they're all broken.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:53.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
All the robots are broken.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:55.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The robots are broken, which is like the normal state of things because you're working on
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:31:57.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
them.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:01.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But it would be nice if we lived in a world where robotics labs had some robots functioning.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:02.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
One of my like favorite moments that just sticks with me, I visited Boston Dynamics
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:08.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and there was a, first of all, seeing so many spots, so many legged robots in one place.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:13.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm like, I'm home.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:20.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But the, yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:22.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
This is where I was built.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:24.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The cool thing was just to see there was a random robot spot was walking down the hall.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:27.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's probably doing mapping, but it looked like he wasn't doing anything and he was wearing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:33.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
he or she, I don't know.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:37.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But it, well, I like, in my mind, there are people, they have a backstory, but this one
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:39.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in particular definitely has a backstory because he was wearing a cowboy hat.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:44.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I just saw a spot robot with a cowboy hat walking down the hall and there was just this
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:48.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
feeling like there's a life, like he has a life.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:54.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
He probably has to commute back to his family at night.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:32:58.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like there's a, there's a feeling like there's life instilled in this robot and it's magical.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:02.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I don't know.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:07.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It was, it was kind of inspiring to see.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:07.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Did it say hello to, did he say hello to you?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:09.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
No, it's very, there's a focus nature to the robot.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:12.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
No, no, listen.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:15.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I love competence and focus and great.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:16.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like he was not going to get distracted by the, the shallowness of small talk.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:18.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's a job to be done and he was doing it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:25.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So anyway, the fact that it was working is a beautiful thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:27.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think Media Lab really prides itself on trying to always have a thing that's working
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:30.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
that you could show off.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:35.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:36.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We used to call it a demo or die.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:36.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You, you could not, yeah, you could not like show up with like PowerPoint or something.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:38.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You actually had to have a working, you know what, my son who is now 13, I don't know if
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:43.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
this is still his life long goal or not, but when he was a little younger, his dream is
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:48.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to build an island that's just inhabited by robots, like no humans.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:52.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
He just wants all these robots to be connecting and having fun and there you go.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:33:57.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Does he have human, does he have an idea of which robots he loves most?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:01.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Is it, is it Roomba like robots?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:06.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Is it humanoid robots?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:09.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Robot dogs, or it's not clear yet.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:10.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We used to have a Jibo, which was one of the MIT Media Lab spin outs and he used to love
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:13.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the giant head that spins and rotate and it's an eye or like not glowing like Cal 9000,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:19.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
but the friendly version.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:30.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
He loved that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:31.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then he just loves, uh, um,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:34.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
yeah, he just, he, I think he loves all forms of robots actually.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:38.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So embodied intelligence.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:44.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:46.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I like, I personally like legged robots, especially, uh, anything that can wiggle its butt.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:47.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
No, that's not the definition of what I love, but that's just technically what I've been
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:34:55.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
working on recently.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:00.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Except I have a bunch of legged robots now in Austin and I've been doing, I was, I've
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:01.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
been trying to, uh, have them communicate affection with their body in different ways
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:06.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
just for art, for art really.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:12.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Cause I love the idea of walking around with the robots, like, uh, as you would with a
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:15.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
dog.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:20.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think it's inspiring to a lot of people, especially young people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:20.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like kids love, kids love it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:23.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Parents like adults are scared of robots, but kids don't have this kind of weird construction
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:25.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of the world that's full of evil.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:35:31.600