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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But yes, yes, there could be less war if women ran the world.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:43.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The other aspect is, it doesn't matter the gender, the people in power.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:47.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I get to see this with Ukraine and Russia and different parts of the world around that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:54.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
conflict now.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:59.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's happening in Yemen as well and everywhere else.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:00.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's these narratives told by the leaders to the populace.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:05.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And those narratives take hold and everybody believes that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:09.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And they have a distorted view of the humanity on the other side.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:12.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
In fact, especially during war, you don't even see the people on the other side as human
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:17.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
or as equal intelligence or worth or value as you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:25.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You tell all kinds of narratives about them being Nazis or dumb or whatever narrative
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:30.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
you want to weave around that or evil.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:40.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But I think when you actually meet them face to face, you realize they're like the same.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:44.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Exactly, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:49.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's actually a big shock for people to realize that they've been essentially lied to within
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:50.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
their country.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:18:58.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I kind of have faith that social media, as ridiculous as it is to say, or any kind
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:00.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of technology, is able to bypass the walls that governments put up and connect people
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:05.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
directly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:13.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then you get to realize, oh, people fall in love across different nations and religions
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:14.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and so on.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:20.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that, I think, ultimately can cure a lot of our ills, especially in person.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:21.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I also think that if leaders met in person, they'd have a conversation that could cure
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:26.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
a lot of the ills of the world, especially in private.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:32.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Let me ask you about the women running the world.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:37.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So gender does, in part, perhaps shape the landscape of just our human experience.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:42.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So in what ways was it limiting and in what ways was it empowering for you to be a woman
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:51.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in the Middle East?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:57.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think, just kind of going back to my comment on women running the world, I think it comes
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:19:58.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
back to empathy, which has been a common thread throughout my entire career.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:03.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it's this idea of human connection.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:08.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Once you build common ground with a person or a group of people, you build trust, you
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:12.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
build loyalty, you build friendship.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:16.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then you can turn that into behavior change and motivation and persuasion.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:20.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it's like, empathy and emotions are just at the center of everything we do.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:24.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think being from the Middle East, kind of this human connection is very strong.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:30.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We have this running joke that if you come to Egypt for a visit, people will know everything
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:38.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
about your life right away, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:44.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I have no problems asking you about your personal life.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:46.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's no boundaries, really, no personal boundaries in terms of getting to know people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:48.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We get emotionally intimate very, very quickly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:53.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But I think people just get to know each other authentically, I guess.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:20:56.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There isn't this superficial level of getting to know people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:01.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You just try to get to know people really deeply.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:05.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Empathy is a part of that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:06.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Totally.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:08.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Because you can put yourself in this person's shoe and kind of, yeah, imagine what challenges
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:08.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they're going through, and so I think I've definitely taken that with me.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:15.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Generosity is another one too, like just being generous with your time and love and attention
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:21.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and even with your wealth, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:26.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Even if you don't have a lot of it, you're still very generous.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:30.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think that's another...
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:32.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Enjoying the humanity of other people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:34.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so do you think there's a useful difference between men and women in that?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:38.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
In that aspect and empathy?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:44.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Or is doing these kind of big general groups, does that hinder progress?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:48.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I actually don't want to overgeneralize.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:56.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, some of the men I know are like the most empathetic humans.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:21:59.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I strive to be empathetic.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:03.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, you're actually very empathetic.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:05.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, so I don't want to overgeneralize.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:10.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Although one of the researchers I worked with when I was at Cambridge, Professor Simon Baron Cohen,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:13.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
he's Sacha Baron Cohen's cousin, and he runs the Autism Research Center at Cambridge,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:18.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and he's written multiple books on autism.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:25.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And one of his theories is the empathy scale, like the systemizers and the empathizers,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:29.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and there's a disproportionate amount of computer scientists and engineers who are
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:35.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
systemizers and perhaps not great empathizers, and then there's more men in that bucket,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:42.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I guess, than women, and then there's more women in the empathizers bucket.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:51.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So again, not to overgeneralize.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:56.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I sometimes wonder about that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:58.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's been frustrating to me how many, I guess, systemizers there are in the field of robotics.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:22:59.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:05.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's actually encouraging to me because I care about, obviously, social robotics,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:06.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and because there's more opportunity for people that are empathic.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:10.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Exactly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:18.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I totally agree.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:19.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:20.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it's nice.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:20.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:21.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So every robotics I talk to, they don't see the human as interesting, as it's not exciting.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:22.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You want to avoid the human at all costs.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:29.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's a safety concern to be touching the human, which it is, but it is also an opportunity
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:32.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
for deep connection or collaboration or all that kind of stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:39.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And because most brilliant roboticists don't care about the human, it's an opportunity,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:43.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in your case, it's a business opportunity too, but in general, an opportunity to explore
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:49.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
those ideas.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:53.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So in this beautiful journey to Cambridge, to UK, and then to America, what's the moment
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:23:54.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
or moments that were most transformational for you as a scientist and as a leader?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:03.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So you became an exceptionally successful CEO, founder, researcher, scientist, and so on.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:09.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Was there a face shift there where, like, I can be somebody, I can really do something
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:18.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in this world?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:25.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:26.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So actually, just kind of a little bit of background.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:26.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So the reason why I moved from Cairo to Cambridge, UK to do my PhD is because I had a very clear
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:29.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
career plan.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:36.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I was like, okay, I'll go abroad, get my PhD, going to crush it in three or four years,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:37.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
come back to Egypt and teach.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:43.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It was very clear, very well laid out.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:45.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Was topic clear or no?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:47.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The topic, well, I did my PhD around building artificial emotional intelligence and looking
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:24:49.280