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d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:16:00
we need bounds
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:16:30
And what bounds do we choose? Well a is arbitrary and irrelevant (most people choose it to be 0), but the important part is the x upper bound
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Zybikron
01/30/2022 03:16:54
everything is with respect to x, there is a t in the integration as a dummy variable because having and the variable x as your bound, and as the variable in your function is.... problematic.
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:17:36
yea i know
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:17:54
@s_chanch Think about it, F takes in a number x and gives you the area under the curve from 0 to x
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:18:06
0?
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:18:10
If you take the derivative of that function, you get f back
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:18:28
(Just think of it as 0 for now, the important part is that it’s irrelevant, you’ll see why in the proof)
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:19:49
yea i know why it’s irrelevant
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:20:32
Ok
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:21:41
I sorta think I get why you don’t get it
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:22:32
When we say “derivative of f” what are we saying? It’s a new function f’ such that f’(x) is the slope of the tangent line to the graph of f at x
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:23:43
When we say “integral of f” what are we saying? It’s a new function $F(x)$ such that $$F(x) = \int_a^x f(t)dt$$
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TeXit
01/30/2022 03:24:02
**abs\_0**
https://cdn.discordapp.c…375735459842.png
307070375735459842.png
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:24:23
@s_chanch FTC1 establishes that f’ and F are opposites, according to these above definitions
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:24:47
the hell
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:24:51
Translating to colloquial language, you can say “derivatives and integrals are opposites”
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:25:13
Did that make any sense at all lol
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:26:14
not really
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:26:20
Dksichdiejf
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:26:31
(i’ve been asking this for 3 days)
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:26:37
Really
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:26:41
(yes)
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:26:50
\:(
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:26:53
oiiii
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:26:58
Help me :c
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:27:07
@Ansh_ use another channel
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:27:09
It's relevant to the topic!
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:27:12
Oh
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:27:13
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:27:30
repulsive: starvation
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:27:43
@s_chanch I think part of it is that your question requires us to understand something you don’t get in your head
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:27:52
yea i guess
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:28:04
if it doesn’t bother you..?
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:28:13
maybe i should try?
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:28:23
though i have no idea what's already been discussed
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:28:24
I will say that I don’t really get exactly what you don’t get, like sorta but not really lol
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:28:48
or rather, what's already been tried
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:29:21
The integral of a function is the area under the curve! ✓ I can see that visually.. and it's fine! But .. The derivative of the integral,i.e., the derivative of the area under the curve.... returns the function ;-; how do you visualize that?
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:29:29
Ok @s_chanch for this person can you just try to phrase your question in the most exact words you can
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:29:37
bottom text
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:29:42
It’s very difficult
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:29:54
and that *maybe* answers my question
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:30:01
I spent a while trying to force my brain to accept it, and it’s just plainly an unintuitive concept
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:30:07
:p
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:30:29
Unintuitive**
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:31:01
is it really that unintuitive?
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:31:26
The tangent slope doing the opposite of the area under the function? I mean
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:31:37
Call me crazy but those sound like totally different things lol
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:31:54
it seems to me that between $\int_a^x$ and $\int_a^{x+h}$ where $h$ is small, all you're doing is adding an infinitesimal rectangle of height $f(x)$ and width $h$
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TeXit
01/30/2022 03:31:56
**Camilleone**
https://cdn.discordapp.c…697925898261.png
569167697925898261.png
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Ray
01/30/2022 03:32:05
what i think about is a rectangle. length f(x). side length dx. integral u get the area so it's f(x)dx. derivative u divide by dx u get back f(x). and then i think about riemann sum
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:32:38
and that is exactly the rate of change of the area
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:32:48
But whenever you think about how they’re opposites, you must go through this thought process every time
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:32:50
At least, for me
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:33:07
Intuitive means I don’t have to go through any thought process at all, I just get it in my gut
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:33:09
Oooooooooo omg that's smart >_<
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:33:29
like one way to view, is change of area
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:33:32
and dumb of me at the samee time :bearlain: T_T
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:33:36
what about ‘area function when you input the tangent line’?????
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:33:37
wtf
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:33:45
:this:
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:34:22
the what?
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s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:34:27
this explains d/dx (int), not int (d/dx)
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:34:32
i must have missed that
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:34:42
How does the "derivative is the slope of tangent to a function at some point" comes into equation here :catThink: Does it have to do with, slope of tangent being a rate of change of function 👀
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:34:47
Yes I believe
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:35:09
oh i see
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:35:44
Yes, the slope of the tangent is “instantaneous rate of change”
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:36:10
(Really, rate of change as h, the distance between the points, approaches 0)
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Ansh_
01/30/2022 03:36:26
Got that... now the int(d/dx) part plz... as chromium asked
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:37:33
the first problem with any argument of int (d/dx) is the introduction of a constant which leads to many antiderivatives
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abs_0
01/30/2022 03:38:29
Changing areas makes sense… area under changes doesn’t
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:38:37
like, many functions all differing by constants have the same tangent function
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Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:39:15
i believe this is what's making the arguments hard to understand intuitively
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Ansh_
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help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:41:56
so to understand this we have to go back to $\int_a^x$
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null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
510,789,298,321,096,700
TeXit
01/30/2022 03:41:59
**Camilleone**
https://cdn.discordapp.c…697925898261.png
569167697925898261.png
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help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:42:15
the derivative, as you know, is the rate of change function
0
1
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:42:59
so let's say you start with a function f, and then you differentiated it to find the derivative f'
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1
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null
null
null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:43:53
the integral of f' can be understood as infinitesimal addition of all the little rates of changes at each point
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null
null
null
null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
701,895,792,763,600,900
s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:46:17
huh..?
1
0
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help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:46:48
which means that now to get $\int_a^x f'(x) dx$, what you want is the total sum of all the little changes of $f$ from $a$ to $x$, which ends up as the difference between $f(x)$ and $f(a)$, i.e. $f(x) - f(a)$
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1
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null
null
null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
510,789,298,321,096,700
TeXit
01/30/2022 03:47:41
**Camilleone**
https://cdn.discordapp.c…697925898261.png
569167697925898261.png
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1
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null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
701,895,792,763,600,900
s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:47:46
i can’t visualise this
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0
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help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
01/30/2022 03:48:04
Ohhh cause a rectangle with 0 with is the same as the height basically right
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1
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null
null
null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:48:18
yeah
0
1
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help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
01/30/2022 03:48:27
Wait no that doesn’t make sense
0
1
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null
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null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:48:32
well
0
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help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
01/30/2022 03:48:33
You’d be adding up infinitely many values
0
1
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null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
01/30/2022 03:48:38
It would diverge
0
1
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null
null
null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:48:39
i admit it isn't that well-worded
0
1
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
1596
Camilleone
false
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:48:44
what i should have said was
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307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
8527
a.b.s._.0.
false
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:49:02
take for example a rate of change at a point $x$
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
510,789,298,321,096,700
TeXit
01/30/2022 03:49:04
**Camilleone**
https://cdn.discordapp.c…697925898261.png
569167697925898261.png
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:49:59
for h small, between x and x+h you basically add an infinitesimal "increase" of the function by that rate of change - of course if the rate of change is negative your function decreases, but that's not important
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:50:42
the point is, by adding all these infinitesimal increases you end up with the total increase of the original function
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
01/30/2022 03:52:08
Hold up
0
1
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null
null
null
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365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
569,167,697,925,898,240
Camilleone
01/30/2022 03:52:14
so in terms of an integral $f(x) = \int_a^x f'(t) \,dt$, you're adding all the infinitesimal increases from $a$ to $x$, which ends up as the total increase from $f(a)$ to $f(x)$
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
307,070,375,735,459,840
abs_0
01/30/2022 03:52:26
By “the function” you mean any general function f, or the derivative function?
0
1
null
null
null
null
null
365
help-10
d8b842f4e0a64afb952cef54909e6d8e
701,895,792,763,600,900
s_chanch
01/30/2022 03:54:50
(please use f’(t) dt)
1
0
null
null
null
null
null