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I can understand. And what are you going to do now? | i can understand and what are you going to do | I can understand And what are you. going to do | i can understand. and what are you going to do now? |
Well, at the moment, I'm working with a group called The Clergy Project. They've been an online support group for about the last year, and our - right now we're trying to organize ourselves to help pastors as they are preparing to come out so they don't have to go through as much as I went through coming out. | well at the moment i'm working with a group. called the clergy project they've been an online support group for about. the last year and our - right now we're trying to organize ourselves to help pastors as they, are preparing to come; out, so they don't have to go through as much as i went through coming | Well at the moment I'm working with, a group called The Clergy Project, They've been an online support group for about. the last year and our - right now we're trying to organize ourselves to help pastors as they are preparing to come out so they don't have. to go through as much as I went through coming | well, at the moment, i'm working with a group called the clergy project. they've been an online support group for about the last year, and our - right now we're trying to organize ourselves to help pastors as they are preparing to come out so they don't have to go through as much as i went through coming out. |
Coming out about their religious doubts, not about their sexuality. | coming out about their religious doubts not about their | Coming out about their religious doubts not about their | coming out about their religious doubts, not about their sexuality. |
Right, exactly, yeah, I know, that coming-out term gets used by a lot of groups now. | right exactly yeah i know that coming-out term gets used by a lot of groups | Right. exactly yeah I know, that coming-out term gets used by a, lot of groups | right, exactly, yeah, i know, that coming-out term gets used by a lot of groups now. |
I wanted to read this email, this we got from Joe(ph): When losing your faith, did you explore any other avenues to the divine? I ask because when I listened to your story on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, it appeared the focus of faith was Christian. I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Buddhism or the Baha'i faith. I bring ... | i wanted to read this email this we got from joe(ph): when losing your faith did you explore any other avenues to the divine? i ask because when i listened to your. story. on all things considered. it appeared the focus of faith was christian i'd be interested, to hear thoughts on buddhism or the baha'i faith i bring t... | I wanted to read this email this we got from. Joe(ph): When losing your, faith did you explore any other avenues to the divine? I ask because, when I listened to your story on, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED it appeared the focus of faith was Christian I'd be interested to hear thoughts on Buddhism or the Baha'i faith I bring. ... | i wanted to read this email, this we got from joe(ph): when losing your faith, did you explore any other avenues to the divine? i ask because when i listened to your story on all things considered, it appeared the focus of faith was christian. i'd be interested to hear thoughts on buddhism or the baha'i faith. i bring ... |
And I'm sure this - Joe did not write this, but other people would say there are universalist alternatives, as well. | and i'm sure this - joe did not write. this, but other people would. say. there are universalist, alternatives as | And I'm sure this - Joe did not write this but other people would say there are universalist alternatives. as | and i'm sure this - joe did not write this, but other people would say there are universalist alternatives, as well. |
Yeah, and I did. That was one of the steps I think that I took as I made my progress was looking at all faiths and all religious groups as equally valid and leading toward God. And at that point, I think I was close to being an agnostic. I even had some conversations, of course not sharing, oh, I'm losing my faith, and... | yeah and i did. that was one of. the steps i think that, i. took as i made my. progress was looking at all faiths and all religious groups as equally valid and leading toward god and at that point i think i was close to being an agnostic i even had some conversations of course not sharing oh i'm losing my faith and i'm... | Yeah and I did That was one of the steps I think that I took as I made my, progress was looking at all faiths and all religious groups as equally valid and leading toward God And at that point I think I was close to being an agnostic I even had, some conversations of course not sharing oh I'm. losing my faith and, I'm,... | yeah, and i did. that was one of the steps i think that i took as i made my progress was looking at all faiths and all religious groups as equally valid and leading toward god. and at that point, i think i was close to being an agnostic. i even had some conversations, of course not sharing, oh, i'm losing my faith, and... |
And I've met with the universalist pastor that's here in Tallahassee, but it just didn't seem a fit to me. And I can't explain why. It just seemed that I needed to step away. And at least for the time being, I need to have this period of time away from all of it, you know, not that I'm questioning, saying oh, I may go ... | and i've met with the universalist pastor; that's here in. tallahassee but it just didn't seem a fit to me and i, can't explain why it just seemed, that i needed to step away and at least for the. time being i need to have this. period of time away from all of. it you know, not that, i'm questioning saying oh i may. go... | And. I've met with the universalist pastor that's here in Tallahassee but it just didn't seem a fit to me And I can't explain why It just seemed that, I needed to step away And at least for the time being I need to have this period, of time away. from all of it you know not that I'm; questioning saying oh. I may go bac... | and i've met with the universalist pastor that's here in tallahassee, but it just didn't seem a fit to me. and i can't explain why. it just seemed that i needed to step away. and at least for the time being, i need to have this period of time away from all of it, you know, not that i'm questioning, saying oh, i may go ... |
Teresa MacBain, former pastor of Lake Jackson United Methodist Church. Barbara Bradley Hagerty, our religion correspondent, is here with us in Studio 3A. Barbara: A, great story; and B, how big a phenomenon is this? | teresa macbain; former pastor of lake jackson united methodist church barbara, bradley hagerty our religion correspondent, is here with us in studio 3a, barbara: a great story, and b how big a. phenomenon is | Teresa MacBain former pastor of Lake Jackson United Methodist Church Barbara Bradley Hagerty, our, religion correspondent is here with us in Studio 3A Barbara: A great story and B how big, a phenomenon is | teresa macbain, former pastor of lake jackson united methodist church. barbara bradley hagerty, our religion correspondent, is here with us in studio 3a. barbara: a, great story; and b, how big a phenomenon is this? |
You know, it's really hard to tell how big a phenomenon this is. Apparently in The Clergy Project, there are a couple - there are around 200 past or current clergy who have anonymously come forward to this Clergy Project, this group, and said, you know, I want out, or I am out, and I can help other people get out. | you know it's really hard to tell how big a phenomenon this is apparently in the clergy project there. are a couple - there are around 200 past or current clergy who have. anonymously come forward to this clergy project this, group and said you know i want out or i am out and i. can help other people get | You know it's really hard to, tell how big a phenomenon this is Apparently in The Clergy Project there are a. couple - there are, around 200 past; or current clergy who have anonymously, come, forward to this Clergy Project this group. and said you know I want out or I, am out and I can help other, people get | you know, it's really hard to tell how big a phenomenon this is. apparently in the clergy project, there are a couple - there are around 200 past or current clergy who have anonymously come forward to this clergy project, this group, and said, you know, i want out, or i am out, and i can help other people get out. |
I think since the story aired, about another 25 have joined, as well. So it's hard to know how big a phenomenon it is partly because who do you talk to if you're a clergy, right? It's not something that you talk to people openly about. I mean, everything - your whole world, your friends, your community, your career, ev... | i think since the story aired about another 25 have joined as well so it's hard to know how big a phenomenon it is partly because who do you talk to if you're a clergy right? it's not something that you talk to people openly about i. mean everything. - your whole world your friends your community your career everything... | I think since the story aired, about another 25 have joined as well So it's hard to, know how big, a phenomenon it is partly because who do you talk to if you're a clergy, right? It's not something; that you talk to people openly about I mean, everything - your whole world your friends your community your career everyt... | i think since the story aired, about another 25 have joined, as well. so it's hard to know how big a phenomenon it is partly because who do you talk to if you're a clergy, right? it's not something that you talk to people openly about. i mean, everything - your whole world, your friends, your community, your career, ev... |
I suspect, given the reaction that we've had to this story, that there are a lot of people out there who have the kind of questions that Teresa has talked about, and other people that I interviewed for this story have talked about, as well. | i suspect given the reaction that. we've had, to this story that there are a lot of people. out there who have the kind of questions that teresa has talked about and other people that i interviewed for this story have talked about as | I suspect given the reaction that we've had to this story that there are a lot of people out there who have the kind of questions that Teresa has talked about and, other people that I interviewed for this story, have talked about as | i suspect, given the reaction that we've had to this story, that there are a lot of people out there who have the kind of questions that teresa has talked about, and other people that i interviewed for this story have talked about, as well. |
I suspect there are some people, a lot of people out there like that, but they maybe haven't wanted to address the questions, and so it's still fairly private. | i suspect there are some people a lot of people out. there like that, but they maybe haven't wanted to address, the questions and so it's still fairly | I suspect there are some people a lot of people out. there like that but they maybe haven't wanted to address the questions and so it's still fairly | i suspect there are some people, a lot of people out there like that, but they maybe haven't wanted to address the questions, and so it's still fairly private. |
As you say, it's really stepping off a cliff. It's not just an intellectual decision. It's not just abstract. It's not just - as important as that has been for these people - their relationship with God, it is their life, their work, their careers. | as you say it's really stepping off a cliff it's not just an intellectual decision. it's, not just abstract it's not; just - as important as that has been for these people - their relationship with god it. is, their life their work their | As, you say it's really, stepping off a cliff It's not. just an intellectual, decision It's not just abstract It's not just - as important as that has been for these people - their relationship with God it is. their life their work their | as you say, it's really stepping off a cliff. it's not just an intellectual decision. it's not just abstract. it's not just - as important as that has been for these people - their relationship with god, it is their life, their work, their careers. |
That's right, and I know Teresa can speak to this, and also I know that there's going to be another pastor, Jerry DeWitt, on later. Both of - I mean, one of the things you hear over and over again is it's really hard to go with, you know, master's in divinity and then go into a corporation and say you should hire me. | that's right and, i know teresa can speak to. this and also i know that there's going to be another pastor. jerry dewitt on later both of - i mean one of the things you hear over, and over again is, it's. really, hard to go with you know master's in divinity and then go into a corporation and say you should hire | That's right and I know Teresa can speak to this and also I know that. there's going to be another pastor Jerry DeWitt on later Both of - I mean one of the things you hear over and over again is it's really hard to go, with you know master's in divinity. and then go into a corporation and say you; should hire | that's right, and i know teresa can speak to this, and also i know that there's going to be another pastor, jerry dewitt, on later. both of - i mean, one of the things you hear over and over again is it's really hard to go with, you know, master's in divinity and then go into a corporation and say you should hire me. |
Now, a lot of the skills are transferable, but a lot of times what people say, Teresa has told me and others have told me, is people say, well, why do you want to leave the ministry? And then do you say, does the pastor say, well, it's because I don't believe in God anymore? And, you know, it creates this kind of conun... | now a, lot of the. skills are, transferable but a; lot of times what people say teresa has told me, and others. have told, me is people say well why do you want to leave the ministry? and then do you say does the pastor say well it's because i don't believe in god anymore? and you know it creates this kind of | Now a lot of the skills are transferable. but a lot of times what people say Teresa, has told me and others have told me is people say well. why do you want to leave the ministry? And then do you say does the pastor. say well it's because I, don't. believe in God anymore? And you know it creates this, kind of | now, a lot of the skills are transferable, but a lot of times what people say, teresa has told me and others have told me, is people say, well, why do you want to leave the ministry? and then do you say, does the pastor say, well, it's because i don't believe in god anymore? and, you know, it creates this kind of conun... |
So what people have said is that - basically what I found is that if people are young, they can often go back and get another degree, become a social worker or something like that. If people are a little further along in their career, their kids are going to college, whatever, a lot of them just stay put and don't do a... | so what people have said is that - basically what i found is that if people are young they can often go back and get another degree become a social worker or something like that if people are a little further along in, their career their kids are going to college whatever a lot of them just stay put and don't do | So what people have said is that - basically what I found is; that if people are young, they can often go back, and get another degree become a social worker or something like that If people are a little further along in their career their kids are going to, college whatever a lot, of them just stay put and don't, do | so what people have said is that - basically what i found is that if people are young, they can often go back and get another degree, become a social worker or something like that. if people are a little further along in their career, their kids are going to college, whatever, a lot of them just stay put and don't do a... |
If this is your story, give us a call, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. We'll start with Joseph(ph), Joseph's on the line with us from Oneonta in Alabama. | if this is your story give us a call 800-989-8255. email us talk@npr.org we'll start with joseph(ph), joseph's on the line with us from oneonta in | If this is your story give us a call 800-989-8255. Email us talk@npr.org We'll start with Joseph(ph), Joseph's on the line with us from Oneonta. in | if this is your story, give us a call, 800-989-8255. email us, talk@npr.org. we'll start with joseph(ph), joseph's on the line with us from oneonta in alabama. |
Hello, how are you? | hello how are | Hello how are | hello, how are you? |
I'm good, thanks. | i'm good | I'm good | i'm good, thanks. |
The problem here with me is that I've started with my doctorate, and I've run across a piece of scripture that simply said - that referenced the Book of Enoch, which isn't in our Bible. And that's where the plague started. And by the time I got to the end of the journey, I decided that I really was not mainline Christi... | the problem here with me is that i've started with my doctorate and i've run across a piece of scripture that simply, said - that referenced the. book of enoch which isn't in our bible. and that's where the plague started and by the time i got to the end of the journey i, decided that i really. was not mainline christi... | The problem here with me is that I've started with my doctorate and I've run. across a piece of scripture that simply said - that referenced the Book of Enoch which isn't in our Bible And that's where the plague started And by the time I got to the end of, the journey I decided that I really was not mainline Christian ... | the problem here with me is that i've started with my doctorate, and i've run across a piece of scripture that simply said - that referenced the book of enoch, which isn't in our bible. and that's where the plague started. and by the time i got to the end of the journey, i decided that i really was not mainline christi... |
And so I had to start searching, and it ended up that I created Fifth Estate Publishing, which takes non-canonical scripture and makes it available for those who are searching. | and so i had to start searching and it ended up that. i created, fifth estate publishing which takes non-canonical scripture and makes it available for. those who are | And so I had to start searching and it ended up that I, created Fifth Estate Publishing which takes non-canonical scripture and makes it available for those who are | and so i had to start searching, and it ended up that i created fifth estate publishing, which takes non-canonical scripture and makes it available for those who are searching. |
These are parts of - well, edited out is one way to put it or not included in the Bible is another way to put it, and as you suggest, there are writings by various groups and various individuals that did not make it in. | these are parts of - well edited out is one, way to put it or, not included in the bible is another way; to put it and as. you suggest there are writings by various, groups and various individuals that did not make it | These are parts of, - well edited out is one way to put it or not included in, the Bible is another way to put it and as you suggest there are, writings by various groups and, various individuals. that did not, make it | these are parts of - well, edited out is one way to put it or not included in the bible is another way to put it, and as you suggest, there are writings by various groups and various individuals that did not make it in. |
Yeah, I'm going one table at a time, OK, y'all? Thank you for your patience. | yeah i'm going one, table at a time ok y'all? thank you for your | Yeah I'm going one table at a time OK y'all? Thank you for your | yeah, i'm going one table at a time, ok, y'all? thank you for your patience. |
How'd you hear about this list? And what was your first reaction? | how'd you, hear, about this list? and what. was your first. | How'd you hear about. this list? And what. was your first | how'd you hear about this list? and what was your first reaction? |
Correct, and by the time (technical difficulty), it seemed that I was more of a Gnostic Christian (technical difficulty) mainline Christian, and of course that caused us some problems because no one in the Baptist Bible belt much knows about Gnosticism. | correct. and by the. time (technical difficulty), it seemed that i was more of a, gnostic christian (technical difficulty) mainline christian and of course that caused; us some problems because no. one in the. baptist bible belt much knows about | Correct and by the time (technical difficulty), it seemed that I was. more of a Gnostic Christian (technical difficulty) mainline Christian and of. course that caused us some problems, because, no one in. the Baptist Bible belt much knows about | correct, and by the time (technical difficulty), it seemed that i was more of a gnostic christian (technical difficulty) mainline christian, and of course that caused us some problems because no one in the baptist bible belt much knows about gnosticism. |
They know more about agnosticism, which is different, too. | they know more about agnosticism which is different | They. know more about agnosticism, which is different | they know more about agnosticism, which is different, too. |
(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER) | (soundbite of | (SOUNDBITE OF | (soundbite of laughter) |
Absolutely. | absolutely. | ||
But Teresa MacBain, I wonder if some of those questions that Joseph started asking himself sound familiar. | but teresa macbain i wonder if, some of those questions that joseph started asking himself sound | But Teresa MacBain I, wonder if some of those questions that Joseph started asking himself sound, | but teresa macbain, i wonder if some of those questions that joseph started asking himself sound familiar. |
Yeah, they do. As a pastor, I don't - I can't really speak for just the person who - the average person who's going to church because I have been really in-depth into the Bible since I was a little kid. I wanted to be just like my dad and enjoyed studying, enjoyed reading. I guess I was one of those kind of egghead Bib... | yeah they do as a pastor. i don't, - i can't really speak for just the person, who - the average person who's going to church because i have been really in-depth into the bible since, i was a little kid i wanted to be just like. my dad; and enjoyed studying enjoyed reading i guess i was one of those kind of egghead bib... | Yeah they do As a pastor, I don't, - I; can't really speak for just the, person who - the average person who's going to church because I have been, really in-depth into the Bible since I was a little kid I wanted to be just like my, dad and enjoyed studying, enjoyed reading I guess I was one of those kind of egghead Bi... | yeah, they do. as a pastor, i don't - i can't really speak for just the person who - the average person who's going to church because i have been really in-depth into the bible since i was a little kid. i wanted to be just like my dad and enjoyed studying, enjoyed reading. i guess i was one of those kind of egghead bib... |
But those questions came up. The typical response, of course, for me was to just ignore it, but the Gospel of Thomas, the Book of Enoch, several of the other apocryphal books that are not included in a Protestant Bible were very, very troublesome, and most of the time I just ignored it. | but those questions came up the typical response, of course for. me was to just ignore it, but the gospel of thomas the book of enoch several of the, other apocryphal books that are not included in a. protestant bible. were very very troublesome and most of the time i just ignored | But; those questions came up The typical response of course for me was to just ignore it but the Gospel of Thomas the Book of Enoch several of the other apocryphal books that are not included in a Protestant Bible. were very very troublesome and most of the time I just ignored | but those questions came up. the typical response, of course, for me was to just ignore it, but the gospel of thomas, the book of enoch, several of the other apocryphal books that are not included in a protestant bible were very, very troublesome, and most of the time i just ignored it. |
Joseph, thanks very much for the call. | joseph thanks very much for, the | Joseph thanks very much for the | joseph, thanks very much for the call. |
May I make one more comment before I go? | may i make one more comment before i | May I make one more comment before, I | may i make one more comment before i go? |
If you could make it briefly. | if you could make it | If. you could make it | if you could make it briefly. |
Absolutely. Our sales are tremendous, and that shows a tremendous searching out there in the U.S., and thank you very much for allowing me to call. | absolutely our sales are tremendous and that shows a tremendous. searching out there in the u.s., and thank you very much for allowing me to | Absolutely Our sales are tremendous; and that shows. a tremendous searching out there in the U.S., and thank you very, much for allowing me to | absolutely. our sales are tremendous, and that shows a tremendous searching out there in the u.s., and thank you very much for allowing me to call. |
All right, Joseph, thanks very much for your participation in the program. Our guest is Teresa MacBain, the former pastor of the Lake Jackson United Methodist Church. You may have heard her story last week on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, reported by our other guest, Barbara Bradley Hagerty. If this is your story, if you've ... | all right. joseph thanks very much. for your participation in the program our guest is teresa macbain the former pastor, of the lake jackson united methodist. church you may have heard her story last week on all things considered reported by our other guest barbara bradley hagerty if this, is your. story if you've los... | All right Joseph thanks very much for your. participation in the program Our. guest is Teresa MacBain the former pastor of the Lake Jackson United, Methodist Church You may have heard her story last week on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. reported by our other guest Barbara Bradley Hagerty If this is your story if you've lost ... | all right, joseph, thanks very much for your participation in the program. our guest is teresa macbain, the former pastor of the lake jackson united methodist church. you may have heard her story last week on all things considered, reported by our other guest, barbara bradley hagerty. if this is your story, if you've ... |
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) | (soundbite of | (SOUNDBITE OF | (soundbite of music) |
This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan. More than 25,000 people responded after Barbara Bradley Hagerty's story about former pastor Teresa MacBain, "From Minister to Atheist: A Story of Losing Faith." The experience struck a chord with many listeners. | this is talk of the nation from npr news, i'm. neal; conan more than 25,000 people responded after barbara bradley hagerty's. story about former pastor teresa, macbain "from minister to atheist: a story of losing, faith" the. experience struck a chord with many | This is TALK. OF THE NATION from NPR. News I'm Neal Conan More than 25,000 people responded after Barbara Bradley Hagerty's story about former pastor Teresa MacBain "From Minister to Atheist: A Story of Losing Faith" The experience struck, a chord with many | this is talk of the nation from npr news. i'm neal conan. more than 25,000 people responded after barbara bradley hagerty's story about former pastor teresa macbain, "from minister to atheist: a story of losing faith." the experience struck a chord with many listeners. |
If you missed it last week on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, you can listen through a link at our website. Go to npr.org. NPR religion correspondent Barbara Bradley Hagerty and former pastor Teresa MacBain are both with us. If you lost your faith, call and tell us what happened to you, 800-989-8255. Email talk@npr.org. Again, ... | if you missed, it last week on all things considered. you can listen through a, link at our website go to. npr.org npr religion correspondent barbara bradley hagerty and former. pastor teresa macbain are both with us if you lost your faith call and tell us what happened to you 800-989-8255. email talk@npr.org again you... | If you missed it last week on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED you. can listen through a link at our website Go to npr.org NPR religion correspondent Barbara Bradley Hagerty and former pastor Teresa MacBain are both with, us If you lost your faith call and tell us what happened to you 800-989-8255. Email talk@npr.org Again you; c... | if you missed it last week on all things considered, you can listen through a link at our website. go to npr.org. npr religion correspondent barbara bradley hagerty and former pastor teresa macbain are both with us. if you lost your faith, call and tell us what happened to you, 800-989-8255. email talk@npr.org. again, ... |
Teresa MacBain, some of those - we talked about some of the faith, and we talked about some of the negative reaction, but there are social aspects to this, too. A pastor's life is sort of unlike most people's careers. | teresa macbain. some of, those - we talked, about some of the faith and we talked about. some of the negative reaction but there are social aspects. to this too a pastor's life is, sort of unlike most people's | Teresa MacBain some of those - we talked about some, of the faith and we talked about some of the, negative reaction but there are social aspects, to this too A pastor's life is sort of unlike; most people's. | teresa macbain, some of those - we talked about some of the faith, and we talked about some of the negative reaction, but there are social aspects to this, too. a pastor's life is sort of unlike most people's careers. |
Right, it's completely consumed in just the ministry, being on-call 24 hours a day, being surrounded always by colleagues that are ministers, conferences that are ministry-based, being with church members. It becomes - it has to become the whole focal point of your life if you're going to care and pastor the people cor... | right it's completely consumed in just the ministry being on-call 24 hours a day being surrounded always by colleagues that are, ministers conferences that are ministry-based being with church members it becomes - it has to become the whole focal point of your. life if you're going to care and pastor. the people | Right it's. completely consumed in just the ministry being on-call 24 hours a day being surrounded always by colleagues that are ministers conferences, that are ministry-based being with church members It becomes - it has to become the whole focal point of your life if you're going to care and pastor the, people | right, it's completely consumed in just the ministry, being on-call 24 hours a day, being surrounded always by colleagues that are ministers, conferences that are ministry-based, being with church members. it becomes - it has to become the whole focal point of your life if you're going to care and pastor the people cor... |
Study, reading books, I tried to throw a novel in every now and then just to keep my mind out of the constant reading of theological texts or study texts or research texts. So it's an all-consuming task, an all-consuming job or vocation. | study reading books i tried to throw a novel in every now and; then. just to, keep my mind out of; the constant reading of, theological texts or study texts or research texts so it's an all-consuming task an all-consuming job or | Study reading books I tried to throw a novel in every now. and then just to keep my mind out of the constant reading of theological texts or study texts or research texts So it's an all-consuming task an all-consuming job or | study, reading books, i tried to throw a novel in every now and then just to keep my mind out of the constant reading of theological texts or study texts or research texts. so it's an all-consuming task, an all-consuming job or vocation. |
Let's see if we can go to another caller. This is Tom(ph), Tom on the line with us from St. Louis. | let's see if we can go to another caller this is tom(ph), tom on. the line with us from st, | Let's see if we can go to another caller, This is Tom(ph), Tom on the line with us from St | let's see if we can go to another caller. this is tom(ph), tom on the line with us from st. louis. |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Hi, Tom. | hi | Hi | hi, tom. |
Thanks for the program, it's amazing. Teresa, I'm relating with you in so many ways. I'm trying to control the flood of thoughts and questions rushing through my brain. I think the only - the main thing I want to ask you, I've gone through a similar evolution. I studied theology through my master's degree, grew up very... | thanks for the program it's amazing teresa i'm relating with you, in so many ways i'm trying to control the. flood. of thoughts, and questions rushing through my brain i think the only - the main; thing i want to ask you i've gone through a similar evolution i studied theology. through, my master's degree grew, up very... | Thanks for the program it's, amazing Teresa I'm relating with you in so many ways I'm trying to control the flood of thoughts. and questions rushing through my brain I think the only - the main, thing I want to ask you I've gone through a similar evolution I studied theology through, my master's degree grew up very str... | thanks for the program, it's amazing. teresa, i'm relating with you in so many ways. i'm trying to control the flood of thoughts and questions rushing through my brain. i think the only - the main thing i want to ask you, i've gone through a similar evolution. i studied theology through my master's degree, grew up very... |
So I'm - my question, if it's OK, would be from a parent to a parent. My wife and children have also been a huge support of me because most of my larger family has rejected the fact that I'm not still goose-stepping along. And how do you handle, as a parent, my kids are still in Catholic school and still learning at th... | so i'm - my question if it's ok would, be from a parent to a parent. my wife and children have also been a huge support, of me because most of my larger family has rejected the fact that i'm not, still. goose-stepping along and how do you handle, as. a parent my kids. are still in catholic school and still learning at;... | So I'm - my. question, if it's OK would be from a parent to a parent My wife and children; have also been a huge support of me because most of my larger. family has rejected the fact, that I'm not still goose-stepping along And how do you handle as a. parent my kids are still in Catholic school and still learning at th... | so i'm - my question, if it's ok, would be from a parent to a parent. my wife and children have also been a huge support of me because most of my larger family has rejected the fact that i'm not still goose-stepping along. and how do you handle, as a parent, my kids are still in catholic school and still learning at th... |
I want them to be older when they make decisions about how they really feel and what they really believe in. And have you had to make those same decisions? | i want them. to be older when they make decisions about how they really feel. and what they really believe, in. and have you had to make those same | I want them to be older when they make decisions about how they really feel and what, they really believe in And have you had to make those. same | i want them to be older when they make decisions about how they really feel and what they really believe in. and have you had to make those same decisions? |
No, I didn't, actually. I guess I'm lucky in that aspect. My youngest son is 21. So they've made their decisions. True, I raised them in a very conservative, Christian atmosphere, but after they got to be about 14 or 15, and I was moving through my stages - I moved out of a conservative Christian denomination into a mo... | no i didn't actually i guess i'm lucky in that aspect my youngest son is 21. so they've made; their decisions. true i raised them in a very conservative. christian atmosphere but after they got to be about 14 or 15, and i. was moving through my stages - i moved out of a conservative christian denomination into a more | No I didn't actually I guess I'm lucky. in; that aspect My youngest son is 21. So they've made their decisions True I raised them in a very conservative. Christian atmosphere, but after they got to be about 14 or 15, and I was, moving through my stages - I moved out of a conservative, Christian denomination into a more... | no, i didn't, actually. i guess i'm lucky in that aspect. my youngest son is 21. so they've made their decisions. true, i raised them in a very conservative, christian atmosphere, but after they got to be about 14 or 15, and i was moving through my stages - i moved out of a conservative christian denomination into a mo... |
And I think that benefitted my sons, because they were able to think more, and I encouraged that. And they've made their own decisions. One is a little bit more of a free thinker, and the other still kind of maintains the faith he had as a child. | and, i think that benefitted my sons because they were; able to think more and i encouraged that and they've made their own decisions one is a little bit, more of a free thinker and the other still kind of maintains the, faith he had, as a. | And I, think that benefitted my sons because they were able to think, more and I. encouraged that And they've made, their own, decisions One. is a little bit more of a free thinker. and. the other still kind of maintains the faith, he had as a | and i think that benefitted my sons, because they were able to think more, and i encouraged that. and they've made their own decisions. one is a little bit more of a free thinker, and the other still kind of maintains the faith he had as a child. |
That's great. My oldest is 16. So that's happening with her, as well. The younger ones, I just try to coach them through by not be too overbearing with my opinion one way or the other. | that's great my oldest is 16. so that's happening with her, as well the younger ones i just try to coach; them through by not be too overbearing with my opinion one way or the | That's great My oldest is 16. So that's happening with her as well The younger ones I, just try to coach them through by not be too overbearing with. my opinion one way or the | that's great. my oldest is 16. so that's happening with her, as well. the younger ones, i just try to coach them through by not be too overbearing with my opinion one way or the other. |
Yeah, I think that's the only thing you can do. | yeah i think that's the only thing you can | Yeah, I think that's the only thing you can, | yeah, i think that's the only thing you can do. |
Yeah, and I just admire your courage so much. I was not a member of the clergy, and I can only imagine the pressure and the backlash, and it's been hard for me just as a regular person with my friends and family. I can imagine being in a high-profile position and having to make that open choice. | yeah and i just admire your courage so much. i was not a member of the clergy, and i can only imagine the pressure and. the backlash and it's, been hard for, me just; as a regular person with, my friends and family i, can, imagine being in a high-profile position and having to make that open | Yeah and I just admire your courage so much I was not a member of the clergy and I can only imagine the pressure and the, backlash and it's been hard for me just as a regular. person with my friends and family I can imagine being in a high-profile position and having to make, that open | yeah, and i just admire your courage so much. i was not a member of the clergy, and i can only imagine the pressure and the backlash, and it's been hard for me just as a regular person with my friends and family. i can imagine being in a high-profile position and having to make that open choice. |
Well, thank you. | well thank | Well thank | well, thank you. |
Barbara? | barbara? | ||
I just wanted to say one thing about Tom. Tom is pretty typical, actually. The number of people - the fastest growing religion in America is none, no religion: atheist, agnostic, no affiliation. Now, that's doubled between like 1990 and 2008. Now something like 15 percent of Americans categorize themselves as none. | i just wanted to say one; thing about tom tom is pretty typical actually the number of people - the fastest growing. religion in. america is none no religion: atheist agnostic no, affiliation. now that's doubled between like 1990 and 2008. now something like 15 percent of americans categorize themselves as | I just wanted to, say one thing about Tom Tom is pretty typical actually The number of people - the fastest growing religion in America is. none no religion: atheist agnostic no affiliation Now that's doubled between like 1990 and 2008. Now something like 15 percent of Americans categorize themselves as | i just wanted to say one thing about tom. tom is pretty typical, actually. the number of people - the fastest growing religion in america is none, no religion: atheist, agnostic, no affiliation. now, that's doubled between like 1990 and 2008. now something like 15 percent of americans categorize themselves as none. |
And so what I think - he's very common, he's very common, and it's a phenomenon that's only growing because young people also are increasingly unaffiliated with religion. So we're just going to see this grow and grow. | and so what i think - he's, very common he's very common and it's a phenomenon that's only, growing because young. people also are increasingly unaffiliated with religion so we're just going to see this grow and | And so what. I think. - he's very common he's very common and it's a phenomenon that's only growing because young people also are increasingly unaffiliated with religion So, we're just going to see this grow and | and so what i think - he's very common, he's very common, and it's a phenomenon that's only growing because young people also are increasingly unaffiliated with religion. so we're just going to see this grow and grow. |
Hey, I just wanted to comment on my personal story. I happened to be a - I was a youth minister for several years, and I was a very devout Southern Baptist. And what happened to me was actually rather ironic, because my devotion to the religion was actually what led to my disbelief in the religion. So our focus on doin... | hey i just wanted to comment on my personal story i happened to be, a - i was a youth minister for several years and i was a very devout southern baptist, and what happened to me was actually rather ironic because my devotion to the religion was actually what led, to my disbelief in the religion so our focus on doing e... | Hey I just wanted to comment on my personal story I. happened to be, a - I was. a. youth minister for several years and I; was a very devout Southern Baptist And what happened to, me was actually rather ironic because my devotion to the religion. was; actually what led to, my disbelief in the religion So our focus on d... | hey, i just wanted to comment on my personal story. i happened to be a - i was a youth minister for several years, and i was a very devout southern baptist. and what happened to me was actually rather ironic, because my devotion to the religion was actually what led to my disbelief in the religion. so our focus on doin... |
Well, that led me to look at my own religion and say, well, how are other people going to question my religion? When I started looking into objections, problems of Christianity, that's when I started to see the flaws and the holes in it. And eventually, you know, I would talk to pastors and preachers, and a lot of time... | well that led me to look, at, my own religion and say well how are other people going to question. my, religion? when i started, looking into objections problems of christianity that's, when i started to see the flaws and. the holes in it and eventually you know i would talk. to pastors and preachers and a lot of times... | Well that led me to look at my own religion and, say well how. are, other people going to question my religion? When I; started looking. into objections problems of Christianity that's. when I started to see the flaws and, the holes in it And eventually you know I would talk to pastors and preachers and a lot of times ... | well, that led me to look at my own religion and say, well, how are other people going to question my religion? when i started looking into objections, problems of christianity, that's when i started to see the flaws and the holes in it. and eventually, you know, i would talk to pastors and preachers, and a lot of time... |
And was there a moment? Was there a step you had to take, Jeff? | and was there a moment? was there, a step you had to. take | And was there a moment? Was there a step you had, to take; | and was there a moment? was there a step you had to take, jeff? |
To my disbelief? | to my | To my | to my disbelief? |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
If there was any moment, it was more just accepting it. I think I was kind of on a path. It sounds like your speaker there, kind of had the same thing where there's a path, where there's a moment where you just have to accept it and say OK, I don't believe anymore. | if there was any moment it was more just accepting it i think, i was kind of on, a path it sounds like your. speaker there kind; of had the same thing, where. there's a path where there's a moment, where you just have to accept it and say ok, i don't believe | If there, was; any moment it was more just accepting it I think I was kind, of on a path It sounds like your speaker there kind of had the same thing where there's a path where there's a moment where you just have to accept it and say OK I, don't believe | if there was any moment, it was more just accepting it. i think i was kind of on a path. it sounds like your speaker there, kind of had the same thing where there's a path, where there's a moment where you just have to accept it and say ok, i don't believe anymore. |
I considered myself kind of a Christian agnostic for a while. So I would still go through the rituals and the practices, but deep down, I knew that my beliefs were quickly fading away. | i considered myself kind of a. christian agnostic for a while so i, would still go through the rituals, and the practices, but deep down i, knew that my beliefs were quickly fading | I considered myself kind of a Christian agnostic for a while So. I would still go through the rituals and, the practices, but deep down, I knew, that my beliefs, were quickly fading | i considered myself kind of a christian agnostic for a while. so i would still go through the rituals and the practices, but deep down, i knew that my beliefs were quickly fading away. |
Do you miss those comforts? | do you miss those | Do you miss those; | do you miss those comforts? |
I do miss it sometimes. I feel like - I do miss parts of it. I do miss, like, you know, the worship, the longing for, you know, this deeper connection with something. But if I had to give it - if I had to go back to it, if I had to give up where I am now, I wouldn't do it. I feel like I'm in a place now of truth, and a... | i do miss it sometimes i feel like - i do miss parts of; it i do miss like you know the worship; the longing for you; know this deeper connection with something but if, i had to give it - if i had to go back to, it, if. i had to give up where i, am now i wouldn't do it i feel like i'm in. a place now of truth, and. act... | I do miss it sometimes I feel like - I do miss parts of it I do miss like you know the worship the longing for you know, this deeper. connection with, something But if I had to give; it - if I had to. go back to it if I had to give up where I am now I. wouldn't do it I feel like I'm in a place now of truth, and actuall... | i do miss it sometimes. i feel like - i do miss parts of it. i do miss, like, you know, the worship, the longing for, you know, this deeper connection with something. but if i had to give it - if i had to go back to it, if i had to give up where i am now, i wouldn't do it. i feel like i'm in a place now of truth, and a... |
Teresa, are there parts of it that you miss? | teresa are. there parts of it that you | Teresa are there parts of it that you | teresa, are there parts of it that you miss? |
Absolutely. I miss the music. I shared that with Barbara in our interview. And the caller said the same thing. Jeff said the same thing, that there's just such a sense of fulfillment and an emotional response and the emotional release that is involved in a worship service, and I miss that. I miss the people that were i... | absolutely i miss the music i shared that with barbara in our interview and the caller said, the same thing jeff said the same thing that there's just such a sense of fulfillment and an emotional response and, the emotional release that is involved in; a worship service and i miss that i miss the people that were in my... | Absolutely I miss the music I shared that with Barbara, in. our interview And the caller said the same thing Jeff. said the same thing; that there's just such a sense of, fulfillment and an emotional response and the emotional release that is; involved in a worship service and I miss that I miss, the people that were i... | absolutely. i miss the music. i shared that with barbara in our interview. and the caller said the same thing. jeff said the same thing, that there's just such a sense of fulfillment and an emotional response and the emotional release that is involved in a worship service, and i miss that. i miss the people that were i... |
Those relationships, for the most part, are gone, and that's a huge thing to know that you've lost. | those relationships for the most. part are gone and that's a huge thing to know that you've | Those relationships for the most part are, gone and that's a huge thing to. know that you've | those relationships, for the most part, are gone, and that's a huge thing to know that you've lost. |
Jeff, thanks very much for the call. | jeff thanks very much for the | Jeff thanks very much, for the | jeff, thanks very much for the call. |
Yeah, thank you very much. | yeah thank you very | Yeah, thank you very | yeah, thank you very much. |
Jerry DeWitt shares the experience of losing faith. He started in the ministry when he was just 17. Ultimately, he held the position of senior pastor at two Louisiana churches. Now he's known as the first graduate of The Clergy Project, which we mentioned earlier, the organization that assists ministers who have lost t... | jerry dewitt shares the experience of losing faith he started in the ministry when he was just 17. ultimately he held the position of senior pastor at two louisiana churches now he's known as the first graduate of the clergy project which we mentioned earlier the organization that assists ministers who have lost their ... | Jerry DeWitt shares the experience of losing faith He started in the ministry when he was just 17. Ultimately. he held the position of, senior pastor at two Louisiana churches, Now he's known as the, first graduate of The Clergy Project which we mentioned earlier the, organization that assists ministers who have lost t... | jerry dewitt shares the experience of losing faith. he started in the ministry when he was just 17. ultimately, he held the position of senior pastor at two louisiana churches. now he's known as the first graduate of the clergy project, which we mentioned earlier, the organization that assists ministers who have lost t... |
How are you doing, Neal? | how. are you doing | How are. you doing | how are you doing, neal? |
Was there a moment when you decided you had to come clean about your beliefs? | was there a moment when you decided you, had to come clean about your | Was there a moment when you decided you had to come clean. about your | was there a moment when you decided you had to come clean about your beliefs? |
Yeah, there actually was. It came for me - I began to realize that there was no way that I could live a satisfying life without ministering to someone. I had been in the ministry for 25 years, growing up in the Pentecostal Church, and as I tried to take on just a secular lifestyle, I realized that being a minister is w... | yeah there actually was it, came. for me. - i began to realize that there was no way that i could live a satisfying; life without ministering to someone i had been in the ministry for 25 years growing up in. the pentecostal, church and as i tried to take on just a secular lifestyle i realized, that being a minister is ... | Yeah there actually was It came for me - I began to realize that there was no way that I could live a satisfying life without ministering to someone I had been in the ministry for 25 years growing, up in the Pentecostal Church and as I, tried to take. on just a secular lifestyle I realized that being a, minister is who... | yeah, there actually was. it came for me - i began to realize that there was no way that i could live a satisfying life without ministering to someone. i had been in the ministry for 25 years, growing up in the pentecostal church, and as i tried to take on just a secular lifestyle, i realized that being a minister is w... |
And so I had made connections through the Clergy Project and had a connection with an organization called Recovering from Religion. And I said that's the people I'm going to minister to now, fellow clergy who don't believe, people who are trying to move out of their religious experience. I'm going to minister to them, ... | and so i had made connections through the, clergy project and had a connection with an organization called recovering from religion and. i said that's the, people i'm going to minister to now fellow clergy who don't. believe people, who are trying to move out. of. their religious experience i'm going to minister to the... | And so I had made connections through the Clergy Project and had a connection with an organization called Recovering from Religion And I said that's the people I'm going to, minister to now fellow clergy who don't believe people who are trying to move out, of their, religious experience I'm going to minister to them an... | and so i had made connections through the clergy project and had a connection with an organization called recovering from religion. and i said that's the people i'm going to minister to now, fellow clergy who don't believe, people who are trying to move out of their religious experience. i'm going to minister to them, ... |
So at that moment, things begin to really get exciting. | so at that moment things begin to really get | So at that moment things begin to really get | so at that moment, things begin to really get exciting. |
Barbara? | barbara? | ||
Well, I've talked to both Terry and Jerry, and - Teresa and Jerry, and they have different views on missing God. And I'd just be interested in hearing them talk about that because, well, I think for Jerry, it's more visceral, and for Teresa, maybe not so much. Could you talk about that? | well i've talked to both terry and jerry and - teresa and jerry and they have different views on missing god and i'd just be interested, in hearing them talk about that because well i think. for jerry it's more, visceral and for teresa maybe not so much could you talk about | Well I've talked to both Terry. and Jerry and - Teresa and Jerry and they have different views on missing God And I'd; just be interested in hearing them talk about that because well I think for Jerry it's more. visceral and, for. Teresa maybe not so much Could you talk; about | well, i've talked to both terry and jerry, and - teresa and jerry, and they have different views on missing god. and i'd just be interested in hearing them talk about that because, well, i think for jerry, it's more visceral, and for teresa, maybe not so much. could you talk about that? |
Jerry, you first. | jerry you | Jerry you | jerry, you first. |
Sure. For me, you have to understand the background that I'm coming from is a Pentecostal background, a charismatic background. So everything about us was emotional, it was tangible, and it was all wrapped up in knowing and feeling the presence of God. And so that's just basically the quest that I was initiated into fr... | sure for me you have to understand the background that. i'm coming from is a pentecostal background a charismatic background so everything about us was emotional it was. tangible and it was all wrapped up in knowing and feeling the presence, of god and so that's just basically the quest that i was initiated into from | Sure For me you have to understand the background that I'm coming from is a Pentecostal background a charismatic background So everything, about us was emotional it was tangible and it was all wrapped up in knowing and feeling the presence of God And so that's just; basically the quest that I was initiated into from | sure. for me, you have to understand the background that i'm coming from is a pentecostal background, a charismatic background. so everything about us was emotional, it was tangible, and it was all wrapped up in knowing and feeling the presence of god. and so that's just basically the quest that i was initiated into fr... |
So it wasn't just intellectual. Obviously, studying the Bible, studying science, being more exposed to reason, that moved me away from the traditions that I had been raised in, but it did not separate from me my natural tendency to want to, you know, have an emotional experience. | so it wasn't just, intellectual obviously studying the bible. studying science being more exposed to reason that moved me away from the traditions that i had; been raised in but it did not, separate from me. my natural tendency to want to you know have an emotional | So it wasn't just intellectual Obviously studying the Bible studying science being more exposed to reason that moved me away from the traditions that I had been raised in but it. did not separate from me my natural tendency to want to you know have, an emotional | so it wasn't just intellectual. obviously, studying the bible, studying science, being more exposed to reason, that moved me away from the traditions that i had been raised in, but it did not separate from me my natural tendency to want to, you know, have an emotional experience. |
So there are definitely parts of me that miss that spiritual journey. I will say I am learning how to replace them. | so, there are definitely parts of me that miss that spiritual journey i will say i am learning how to replace | So there are definitely parts of me. that miss that spiritual journey I, will say, I am learning how to. replace | so there are definitely parts of me that miss that spiritual journey. i will say i am learning how to replace them. |
And Teresa Macbain? | and teresa; | And Teresa | and teresa macbain? |
You know, when Barbara interviewed me, she asked me - one of the last questions she asked was: What do you miss most about church and about ministry? And my response was the one I gave just a moment ago. | you know when barbara interviewed, me she asked me - one of the last questions she asked was: what do you miss most about church and about ministry? and my response was the one, i gave just a, moment | You know when Barbara interviewed me she asked me; - one of, the last, questions she asked was: What do you miss most about church and about ministry? And, my response was the one I gave just a, moment | you know, when barbara interviewed me, she asked me - one of the last questions she asked was: what do you miss most about church and about ministry? and my response was the one i gave just a moment ago. |
The music. | the | The | the music. |
Was the music, the people. And she found it very interesting and even commented: You didn't mention God. And it's a - it almost feels like I'm ashamed to say it, and I think that's probably just because, you know, it's been six weeks since all this has happened, and I'm still in this process. I'm still in this journey.... | was the music the people and she. found it very, interesting and, even commented: you didn't mention god. and it's a - it, almost feels like i'm ashamed to say it and i think that's probably, just because you know it's been six weeks since. all this, has happened and, i'm, still in this process i'm still in this journe... | Was the music the people And she found it very interesting and even commented: You didn't mention God, And it's a - it almost feels like I'm ashamed to say it and I think that's probably just because you know it's been six weeks since all this. has happened and I'm still in this process I'm still in this journey But it... | was the music, the people. and she found it very interesting and even commented: you didn't mention god. and it's a - it almost feels like i'm ashamed to say it, and i think that's probably just because, you know, it's been six weeks since all this has happened, and i'm still in this process. i'm still in this journey.... |
(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER) | (soundbite of | (SOUNDBITE OF | (soundbite of laughter) |
There was a caller who couldn't stay with us, but did want to ask the question earlier: What was your relationship with God like before you lost your faith? Teresa? | there was a caller who couldn't stay with us. but did want to ask the question earlier: what was your relationship with. god like before you lost your | There was a caller who couldn't stay with us but did want to ask the question earlier: What was your relationship. with God like before you lost, your | there was a caller who couldn't stay with us, but did want to ask the question earlier: what was your relationship with god like before you lost your faith? teresa? |
Unidentified Woman #2: It just kills me, because these kids are, you know, I'm old enough to be their mom, and just to see them hurt, it's very difficult. I hope their parents are happy to welcome them home. And I always try to tell them before they go to sleep, you will wake up in Germany. Have a beer for us. | unidentified. woman #2: it just kills me because these kids are you know i'm old enough to be their mom and just to, see them hurt it's very difficult. i hope their parents are happy to welcome, them home and i always try to tell them before they go to sleep you will wake up in germany have a beer for | Unidentified Woman #2: It just kills me because these kids are you know I'm, old enough. to be their mom and just to. see them hurt it's very difficult I hope their parents, are happy to welcome them home And I always try to tell them before. they go to sleep, you will wake up, in Germany Have a beer for | unidentified woman #2: it just kills me, because these kids are, you know, i'm old enough to be their mom, and just to see them hurt, it's very difficult. i hope their parents are happy to welcome them home. and i always try to tell them before they go to sleep, you will wake up in germany. have a beer for us. |
Oh, I feel like I had a very strong relationship. Many comments have been made that I really never knew God, and that's the only reason I could have lost my faith. But as Barbara shared, at six years old, I felt like I was called to be in the ministry in some way. I was - I carried around this little red Gideon's New T... | oh i, feel like i had; a very strong relationship many comments have, been made that i really never knew god and that's the only reason. i could have lost, my, faith but as barbara shared at six years old, i felt like i was called to be in the ministry in some way. i. was - i carried around this little red gideon's new... | Oh I; feel like, I had a very strong relationship Many comments have. been made that I, really never knew God and that's the only reason I could have lost my faith But as Barbara shared at. six years old I felt like. I was called to; be in the, ministry in some way I was - I carried. around this little red; Gideon's Ne... | oh, i feel like i had a very strong relationship. many comments have been made that i really never knew god, and that's the only reason i could have lost my faith. but as barbara shared, at six years old, i felt like i was called to be in the ministry in some way. i was - i carried around this little red gideon's new t... |
Yes. | yes. | ||
Let's go next to - I'm sorry. I wanted to get another call in. | let's go next to - i'm, sorry i wanted to. get another call | Let's go next to - I'm sorry I wanted to get another call | let's go next to - i'm sorry. i wanted to get another call in. |
Oh, right. Sure. | oh right | Oh right | oh, right. sure. |
But we'll - we could put her on hold for a second if you wanted to say something, Jerry. | but we'll, - we could put her on hold for a second if you wanted to say something | But we'll - we could put her on. hold for a second, if you wanted, to say something | but we'll - we could put her on hold for a second if you wanted to say something, jerry. |
Oh, I was just going to say, Neal, that the same people who taught me that the sky was blue and taught me that the stove top was hot are - that's the same environment that I learned that these emotional experiences were the presence of God. And so I felt, from an early age, that I had a relationship with God, though I ... | oh i was just going to say neal that the same. people who taught me that the sky was blue and taught me that the stove top was hot are - that's; the same environment that. i learned that these emotional experiences were the presence of god and so i felt from an early age that i had a relationship with god though i did ... | Oh I was just going to; say Neal that the same. people, who taught me that, the sky was blue and taught me that. the stove top was hot are - that's the same environment that I learned that these emotional experiences were the presence. of God And so I felt from an early age that I had a relationship with God though I d... | oh, i was just going to say, neal, that the same people who taught me that the sky was blue and taught me that the stove top was hot are - that's the same environment that i learned that these emotional experiences were the presence of god. and so i felt, from an early age, that i had a relationship with god, though i ... |
Jerry DeWitt, former pastor at a Pentecostal church in Louisiana, now at The Clergy Project. Also with us is Teresa MacBain, former pastor of Lake Jackson United Methodist church, featured in the story last week on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED by our third guest Barbara Bradley Hagerty, NPR religion correspondent. You're list... | jerry dewitt former pastor, at a pentecostal church in louisiana now at the clergy project also with us is teresa macbain former pastor of lake jackson united methodist; church featured in the story last week on all things considered by, our third guest barbara bradley hagerty npr religion correspondent you're listenin... | Jerry DeWitt former pastor at. a Pentecostal church in Louisiana now at The Clergy Project Also with us is Teresa MacBain former pastor of Lake, Jackson United Methodist, church featured in the story last week on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED by our third guest Barbara Bradley Hagerty NPR religion correspondent You're listenin... | jerry dewitt, former pastor at a pentecostal church in louisiana, now at the clergy project. also with us is teresa macbain, former pastor of lake jackson united methodist church, featured in the story last week on all things considered by our third guest barbara bradley hagerty, npr religion correspondent. you're list... |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Yes. Go ahead. | yes go | Yes Go | yes. go ahead. |
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