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(Soundbite of a large group of people talking) | (soundbite of a large group of people | (Soundbite, of a large group of people | (soundbite of a large group of people talking) |
Another drought is on the way. Klamath Water Users Association president Steve Kandra delivered the bad news at a recent meeting. | another drought is on the way klamath water users association president steve kandra delivered the bad news at, a recent | Another drought is on the way Klamath Water Users Association president Steve Kandra delivered the bad news at a recent | another drought is on the way. klamath water users association president steve kandra delivered the bad news at a recent meeting. |
And we know for every sunny day that we have this time of year that we're going to have some stormy days later on this summer. | and we know for every sunny day. that we have this time of year that we're going to have some stormy days. later on this | And we know for every sunny. day that we have this time of year that we're going to have some stormy days, later on this | and we know for every sunny day that we have this time of year that we're going to have some stormy days later on this summer. |
Kandra and other Klamath farmers feel like they're under attack. Environmentalists argue the basin isn't suitable for agriculture. At more than 4,000 feet above sea level, they say the growing season is too short and there's not enough water to justify the harmful effects on wildlife. Add to that ... | kandra, and other klamath farmers feel like; they're under attack environmentalists argue the basin isn't suitable for agriculture at more, than, 4,000 feet above sea level they say the growing season is too short and there's, not enough water to justify the harmful effects on wildlife add to that... | Kandra and other Klamath farmers feel like they're under attack Environmentalists argue the basin isn't suitable for agriculture At more than, 4,000 feet above sea level they say the growing season is too, short and there's not, enough water to justify the harmful effects on wildlife Add to that; ... | kandra and other klamath farmers feel like they're under attack. environmentalists argue the basin isn't suitable for agriculture. at more than 4,000 feet above sea level, they say the growing season is too short and there's not enough water to justify the harmful effects on wildlife. add to that ... |
Everybody comes and looks at one place and says it's not the right place. What is? You know, a plowed-under rain forest in Brazil, is that the right place? You know? And some of the people that complain are probably the greatest beneficiaries of what we do--a safe, secure, affordable food supply... | everybody comes and looks at one place and says it's not the right place what is? you know a plowed-under rain forest in brazil is that the right place? you know? and some of the people that complain are probably the greatest beneficiaries of what we do--a safe secure affordable food | Everybody comes and looks at one place and, says. it's. not the, right place, What is? You know a plowed-under rain, forest in, Brazil is; that, the right. place? You know? And some of. the people that. complain are probably the greatest beneficiaries of, what we do--a safe secure affordable foo... | everybody comes and looks at one place and says it's not the right place. what is? you know, a plowed-under rain forest in brazil, is that the right place? you know? and some of the people that complain are probably the greatest beneficiaries of what we do--a safe, secure, affordable food supply... |
Good. A stupid person, informally. | good a stupid person | Good A stupid person. | good. a stupid person, informally. |
where to get the uranium. At the time, there were two prime sources, the first, a mine way up near the Arctic Circle, over a 1,000 miles from the nearest railway; and the other, a mine deep in the Belgian Congo. | where to get the uranium at the time, there were; two prime sources the first a, mine way up near the arctic circle over a 1,000 miles from the nearest railway. and the other a mine deep in the belgian | where to, get the uranium At the time there were two prime sources the first a mine way up near the Arctic Circle over a 1,000 miles from the nearest. railway and the other a, mine deep in the Belgian; | where to get the uranium. at the time, there were two prime sources, the first, a mine way up near the arctic circle, over a 1,000 miles from the nearest railway; and the other, a mine deep in the belgian congo. |
Wasn't there any more secure, domestic source of uranium ore? And they found it, and a lot of it, all over the Navajo homeland in northeastern Arizona, which is where my next guest's book takes places. | wasn't there any more secure domestic source of uranium ore? and they found it and, a lot of it all over. the navajo homeland in northeastern. arizona which is where my next guest's, book takes | Wasn't there any more secure domestic source of uranium ore? And they found it. and a lot of it all over the Navajo homeland in. northeastern Arizona which is where my next guest's book takes | wasn't there any more secure, domestic source of uranium ore? and they found it, and a lot of it, all over the navajo homeland in northeastern arizona, which is where my next guest's book takes places. |
The book is "Yellow Gold(ph): An American Story of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed." It takes us back to those wartime days of exploratory mines. Yellow gold is I keep calling it "Yellow Dirt." I'm sorry: "Yellow Dirt: American Story of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed." It takes us back to those wartime d... | the book, is "yellow gold(ph): an american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed" it takes us back to those; wartime. days of exploratory mines, yellow, gold is i keep calling it "yellow dirt" i'm sorry: "yellow dirt: american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed" it takes us back to those wartime ... | The book is "Yellow Gold(ph): An American Story, of. a. Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed" It, takes us back to those wartime days. of exploratory mines Yellow gold is I keep calling it "Yellow Dirt" I'm sorry: "Yellow Dirt: American Story, of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed" It takes us back to those. wartim... | the book is "yellow gold(ph): an american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed." it takes us back to those wartime days of exploratory mines. yellow gold is i keep calling it "yellow dirt." i'm sorry: "yellow dirt: american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed." it takes us back to those wartime d... |
Judy Pasternak is the author of "Yellow Dirt: An American Story of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed." She's a former writer and investigative reporter for the L.A. Times. She joins us from our studios in Washington. Welcome to SCIENCE FRIDAY. | judy pasternak is the, author of "yellow dirt: an american story. of a poisoned land and a, people betrayed" she's a former writer and investigative reporter for the l.a times she joins us; from our studios in washington welcome, to science. | Judy, Pasternak is the author of "Yellow Dirt: An; American Story. of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed" She's a; former writer and investigative reporter for the L.A Times She joins us from our; studios in Washington Welcome to SCIENCE | judy pasternak is the author of "yellow dirt: an american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed." she's a former writer and investigative reporter for the l.a. times. she joins us from our studios in washington. welcome to science friday. |
Hi, Ira, thanks for having me here. | hi ira thanks for having me | Hi Ira thanks for, having. me | hi, ira, thanks for having me here. |
Take us back to those early days on the reservation. How was uranium discovered there? Walk us through that sequence. | take us back to those early days on the reservation how was uranium discovered there? walk us through that | Take us back to those early days on the reservation How was uranium discovered there? Walk, us through that | take us back to those early days on the reservation. how was uranium discovered there? walk us through that sequence. |
Well, there were a couple of different things happening at the same time. One of the things that happened is that the Manhattan Project actually formed a front company, and they called it Union Mines Development Corporation. | well there were a couple; of different things happening at the same time one of the things that happened is that the manhattan project actually formed a front company and they called it union mines development; | Well there were a couple of different things happening, at the same time One of, the things that happened is that the Manhattan Project actually formed a front company and they called it Union Mines Development | well, there were a couple of different things happening at the same time. one of the things that happened is that the manhattan project actually formed a front company, and they called it union mines development corporation. |
They sent geologists out to the reservation. Their cover story was that they were looking for another mineral called vanadium that hardens steel. And they sent back cables where they found the uranium. You know, they weren't allowed to use the U-word, even though their cables were classified, and they called it S-37, S... | they sent geologists out to the reservation their cover story was that, they; were looking for another mineral called vanadium that hardens steel and they sent back cables where they found the uranium you know they. weren't allowed to use the u-word even though their. cables were classified and they called. it | They sent geologists out to the, reservation Their cover story was that they were looking for another mineral called vanadium that hardens steel And they, sent back cables where they found the uranium You know they weren't allowed to use the U-word even though their cables were classified and they called it | they sent geologists out to the reservation. their cover story was that they were looking for another mineral called vanadium that hardens steel. and they sent back cables where they found the uranium. you know, they weren't allowed to use the u-word, even though their cables were classified, and they called it s-37, s... |
Top secret stuff they were working on. | top secret stuff they were working | Top secret stuff they. were working | top secret stuff they were working on. |
Top secret stuff. And then the other thing that happened was at the same time, those people worked for Union Carbide, which had formed a front company for the government. Then there was another company called Vanadium Corporation of America, which did mine vanadium, but they had a secret contract to siphon off uranium ... | top secret stuff and then the other thing that happened. was at, the same time those people worked for union carbide which had formed a front company for the government then there was another company called vanadium corporation of america which did mine vanadium but they had a secret contract, to siphon. off uranium fr... | Top secret stuff; And then the other thing that happened was at the same time those people worked for Union Carbide which had, formed a front company for the government Then there was another company called Vanadium Corporation of America which, did mine vanadium but they had a secret contract to siphon off uranium fro... | top secret stuff. and then the other thing that happened was at the same time, those people worked for union carbide, which had formed a front company for the government. then there was another company called vanadium corporation of america, which did mine vanadium, but they had a secret contract to siphon off uranium ... |
Did they enlist the Navajos to help them find it? | did they enlist the navajos to help them find | Did they enlist the Navajos to help them find | did they enlist the navajos to help them find it? |
Well, the Navajos did. What happened there was an Indian trader was helping them, and he put some stones out on his counter, and about 15 miles away, there was a valley where the patriarch who had settled the place had found these strange rocks up on the mesa where he'd graze his sheep. And he called this stuff leetso,... | well the navajos, did what happened there was an indian trader was helping, them and he put some. stones out on his counter and about 15 miles away there was, a, valley where the. patriarch who had settled the place had found these strange rocks up on the mesa where he'd graze his. sheep and he. called this stuff leets... | Well the Navajos did What happened there was an Indian trader was helping, them and he put some stones out, on his counter and about 15 miles away there was a valley where, the patriarch who had settled the place had found these strange rocks up on the mesa. where he'd graze his sheep And he called, this stuff leetso, ... | well, the navajos did. what happened there was an indian trader was helping them, and he put some stones out on his counter, and about 15 miles away, there was a valley where the patriarch who had settled the place had found these strange rocks up on the mesa where he'd graze his sheep. and he called this stuff leetso,... |
And he told his children not to show it to the white men, and one of his sons, though, was, you know, motivated partly by patriotism and partly by the allure of riches, not necessarily in that order, actually betrayed his father. | and, he told his children not to show it to the white men and one of his sons though was you know motivated partly by patriotism and partly by, the allure of riches not necessarily, in that order actually betrayed his | And he told; his children not to show it to the white. men and one of his. sons though was you. know. motivated partly. by patriotism and partly by the allure of riches not necessarily in that order actually, betrayed his | and he told his children not to show it to the white men, and one of his sons, though, was, you know, motivated partly by patriotism and partly by the allure of riches, not necessarily in that order, actually betrayed his father. |
Oh, so he showed it, and then this guy said wow, this is exactly what we're looking for. Where did you get this stuff? | oh so he. showed it and. then this, guy, said wow this is exactly what we're looking for where did you get this | Oh so, he showed it and then this guy said; wow this is exactly what we're looking for Where did you get this | oh, so he showed it, and then this guy said wow, this is exactly what we're looking for. where did you get this stuff? |
Absolutely. That's what happened. | absolutely that's what | Absolutely That's what | absolutely. that's what happened. |
And so did he show them the source of where it came from? | and so did, he show them the source of where it came | And so did he show them the. source; of where it came | and so did he show them the source of where it came from? |
He sure did. He took them on a hike, a long wagon ride and then a hike. And within a year or so, there were about 100 miners blasting away at the mesa. | he sure did he took, them on a. hike. a long wagon ride and then a hike and within, a year or so there were about, 100 miners blasting away at the | He sure did He took. them on a hike a long wagon ride and then a hike And within a year or so; there were about 100 miners blasting. away at the | he sure did. he took them on a hike, a long wagon ride and then a hike. and within a year or so, there were about 100 miners blasting away at the mesa. |
And it created all sorts of problems eventually with pollution, uranium pollution and the dust falling out everywhere. | and it. created all. sorts of problems eventually, with pollution uranium pollution and the dust falling out | And it created all sorts of problems, eventually with pollution uranium pollution and the dust falling out | and it created all sorts of problems eventually with pollution, uranium pollution and the dust falling out everywhere. |
That's right. It was a problem first of occupational exposure for the miners and then later for the entire community at large. | that's right it was a problem first of occupational exposure for the miners and then later. for the entire community at | That's right It was a problem first of occupational exposure, for the miners and then later for the entire community, at | that's right. it was a problem first of occupational exposure for the miners and then later for the entire community at large. |
And you talk about in your book that the Navajo actually built their homes out of this radioactive dust. | and you talk about in your book that the navajo actually built their homes out of this radioactive | And you talk. about in your book that the Navajo actually built their homes out. of; this radioactive | and you talk about in your book that the navajo actually built their homes out of this radioactive dust. |
Yeah, after the mining ended, the companies, VCA and the other companies that came in, were had clauses in their leases that said they were supposed to return the land in as good condition as received. But the federal inspectors let them go without cleaning up. | yeah after the mining ended the companies vca and the other companies that came in, were had clauses in their leases. that said they, were supposed to return, the land in as good condition as received but the federal inspectors let them go without cleaning | Yeah after the mining ended the companies VCA and the other companies that came in were had clauses in their leases that said they were supposed to, return the land. in, as, good condition as received. But the federal inspectors let them go without cleaning | yeah, after the mining ended, the companies, vca and the other companies that came in, were had clauses in their leases that said they were supposed to return the land in as good condition as received. but the federal inspectors let them go without cleaning up. |
And so there was all this ore that was nicely squared off by the blasting laying around, and there were these sandy mounds at four processing sites around Navajo, huge in this one area where the betrayal took place, they had two piles. One covered 20 acres, and one covered 10. | and; so. there was all this ore that was nicely squared off by the blasting laying around and there were these sandy mounds at four processing sites around navajo huge in this one area where the betrayal took place they had two piles one covered 20 acres and one covered | And so there, was, all this ore that, was nicely squared off by the blasting laying around and, there were these sandy mounds at four processing sites, around Navajo huge in this one area where the betrayal took place they had two piles One; covered 20 acres and one covered | and so there was all this ore that was nicely squared off by the blasting laying around, and there were these sandy mounds at four processing sites around navajo, huge in this one area where the betrayal took place, they had two piles. one covered 20 acres, and one covered 10. |
And it was - the Navajos were very poor and very practical, and they discovered this stuff made really good cement. And they had these square rocks, and they used it to build foundations and floors and bread ovens and stucco walls. | and it was. - the navajos were very poor and very practical and they discovered this stuff made really good cement and they had these square rocks and, they used it to. build foundations, and floors and bread ovens, and stucco | And it was - the Navajos were very poor and very practical and they discovered this stuff made really good cement And. they had these square rocks and they used it to build foundations and floors and bread ovens and stucco | and it was - the navajos were very poor and very practical, and they discovered this stuff made really good cement. and they had these square rocks, and they used it to build foundations and floors and bread ovens and stucco walls. |
Wow, and so you recount how when some of the white people came in, they had Geiger counters, and they wow, it like went off the charts. These homes were hot. | wow and so you recount how when some of; the white. people came in they had geiger counters and they wow, it; like went off the charts these homes were, | Wow. and so you recount how. when. some of the. white people came in they had Geiger counters. and they wow it like went off the charts These homes were | wow, and so you recount how when some of the white people came in, they had geiger counters, and they wow, it like went off the charts. these homes were hot. |
Yeah, much later, in the '70s and '80s, there was an EPA guy who discovered that many of the homes in this one valley, you know, 1,600 or 1,700 homes in that valley, were very hot. And then another, about five or six years later, somebody out in the community with a television crew, who was just looking at old mines, w... | yeah much, later in the '70s and '80s there was an; epa guy who, discovered that many of the homes in this one valley you know 1,600 or 1,700 homes in that valley were very hot and then another about five or six years later somebody out in the community with a. television crew who was just looking at old mines was in a... | Yeah. much later in the '70s and '80s there. was an EPA guy who discovered that many of the homes in this one valley you know 1,600 or 1,700 homes in that valley were very hot, And then another about five or six years later. somebody out in the community with a television crew who was. just looking at old mines. was in... | yeah, much later, in the '70s and '80s, there was an epa guy who discovered that many of the homes in this one valley, you know, 1,600 or 1,700 homes in that valley, were very hot. and then another, about five or six years later, somebody out in the community with a television crew, who was just looking at old mines, w... |
Did anybody tell the Navajo miners that digging up all this uranium could give them all kinds of problems? | did anybody tell the navajo miners that digging up; all this uranium. could give, them; all kinds of | Did anybody tell the Navajo miners. that digging up all, this uranium could give them all kinds of. | did anybody tell the navajo miners that digging up all this uranium could give them all kinds of problems? |
No. The Public Health Service actually examined the Navajos. The problem for them, which was well-known to the government, was that in 10 or 20 years' time, they faced a very high risk of coming down with lung cancer. So it was a down-the-road kind of thing. | no the public health service actually examined the navajos the problem for them, which was well-known to the government was that in 10 or 20 years' time they faced a very high risk of coming down with lung cancer so it was a down-the-road kind of | No The Public Health Service actually examined the Navajos The problem for them; which was well-known to. the government was that in 10 or 20 years' time. they faced a very high risk of coming down with lung cancer So it was a down-the-road. kind of | no. the public health service actually examined the navajos. the problem for them, which was well-known to the government, was that in 10 or 20 years' time, they faced a very high risk of coming down with lung cancer. so it was a down-the-road kind of thing. |
And they would actually come and do medical exams, but they were under orders not to scare away the workforce. | and they would actually come, and do medical exams, but they, were under; orders not to scare, away the | And they would actually. come and do medical exams but they were under orders not to scare away the | and they would actually come and do medical exams, but they were under orders not to scare away the workforce. |
And did they suspect themselves, over the years that they were working in the mine and being exposed to the dust, that this was actually harming them in some way? | and did they suspect themselves over the years that they were working in the mine and being, exposed to the dust that this was. actually harming them in some | And did they suspect themselves over the years that they were working in the mine and being exposed to the dust that this was, actually harming them in some | and did they suspect themselves, over the years that they were working in the mine and being exposed to the dust, that this was actually harming them in some way? |
You point out, even people who've lost a hundred pounds. | you point out even. people who've lost a hundred | You point out even people who've lost, a hundred | you point out, even people who've lost a hundred pounds. |
Oh, nitwit. | oh | Oh | oh, nitwit. |
Well, they didn't really know. There were occasional news reports in the outer world that did reach the tribal council, and they one tribal official actually asked if uranium, handling uranium was dangerous. And he was assured by some mining people and by some people from the Interior Department that there wasn't real... | well they, didn't. really know there were occasional news reports, in the outer world that did reach, the tribal council and they one tribal official actually asked if uranium handling uranium was dangerous and he was assured by some mining people and by some people from the interior, department that there, wasn't rea... | Well they didn't really know There were occasional news, reports in the outer world that. did reach, the tribal council and they one tribal official actually asked if uranium handling uranium was dangerous And, he was assured by some, mining people. and by some people from the Interior. Department that there wasn't re... | well, they didn't really know. there were occasional news reports in the outer world that did reach the tribal council, and they one tribal official actually asked if uranium, handling uranium was dangerous. and he was assured by some mining people and by some people from the interior department that there wasn't real... |
But in fact there were all kinds of cancers that were showing up. | but in fact there were all kinds of cancers that were showing | But in fact there were all kinds of cancers that were showing | but in fact there were all kinds of cancers that were showing up. |
Right. | right. | ||
Yeah. Tell us about this big radioactive spill, the Church Rock Spill. | yeah, tell us about this big radioactive spill the church rock | Yeah Tell us about this big radioactive spill the Church Rock | yeah. tell us about this big radioactive spill, the church rock spill. |
That was in 1979. There was a mine just at the edge of the Navajo reservation proper, and just over the border, there was another processing facility run by United Nuclear. | that was in 1979. there was a mine just at the edge of the. navajo reservation proper. and just over the border there was another processing facility run by. united | That was in. 1979. There, was a mine just at the edge of the, Navajo reservation proper and just over the border there was another processing facility run by United | that was in 1979. there was a mine just at the edge of the navajo reservation proper, and just over the border, there was another processing facility run by united nuclear. |
And United Nuclear, instead of they were actually trying not to have those mountains of sand there because by that time, people knew it could be a problem. So they dissolved theirs in water and held it in a pond. | and united, nuclear instead, of they were actually trying not, to have those mountains of sand there because by that time people knew it could be a problem so, they dissolved theirs, in water and held it in a | And United Nuclear instead of they were actually trying not to, have those mountains of sand there because by that time people knew it could be, a problem. So they dissolved theirs in water; and, held it in a | and united nuclear, instead of they were actually trying not to have those mountains of sand there because by that time, people knew it could be a problem. so they dissolved theirs in water and held it in a pond. |
But they had it and it was supposed to be state of the art. They had an earthen dike holding it back, but there was a breach cracks in the dike. And 93 million gallons of radioactive material spilled into an arroyo and from there into a river, the Rio Puerco that marks the southern boundary of Navajo. | but they had it and it was supposed to be state of the art they had an earthen dike holding it back but there was a breach cracks in the dike and 93 million gallons of radioactive material spilled into an arroyo and from there, into a river the rio puerco that marks the southern boundary of, | But they had, it and it was supposed to be state. of, the art They. had an earthen dike holding it back but there was a breach cracks in. the dike And 93 million gallons of radioactive material; spilled into an arroyo and from there into a river the Rio. Puerco that marks the southern boundary of | but they had it and it was supposed to be state of the art. they had an earthen dike holding it back, but there was a breach cracks in the dike. and 93 million gallons of radioactive material spilled into an arroyo and from there into a river, the rio puerco that marks the southern boundary of navajo. |
It was the largest accidental release of radioactive material in U.S. history. | it was the largest accidental release of radioactive material in u.s, | It was the largest accidental release, of, radioactive material in U.S | it was the largest accidental release of radioactive material in u.s. history. |
And this happened right after Three Mile Island. | and this happened right after three mile | And this happened right after Three Mile | and this happened right after three mile island. |
Right. | right. | ||
But we heard so much about Three Mile Island, and I can't ever remember hearing about this one. | but we heard so, much about three mile island and i can't ever remember hearing about this | But we heard so, much about Three Mile Island and I; can't ever remember hearing about this | but we heard so much about three mile island, and i can't ever remember hearing about this one. |
Well, this one, people didn't pay quite as much attention outside. | well this one people didn't; pay quite, as much attention | Well this one people didn't pay quite as much attention | well, this one, people didn't pay quite as much attention outside. |
Because? | because? | ||
Well, it was more it was more remote. You didn't have something like "The China Syndrome," the movie that got everybody worried about something like Three Mile Island happening. And, you know, a packed-dirt dam cracking is not as exotic, I guess, as those cooling towers. | well it was more it was more remote you didn't have something like; "the china syndrome" the movie that got. everybody worried about something like three mile island happening and you, know a packed-dirt. dam cracking is not, as, exotic i guess as those. cooling | Well it was more. it was more remote You didn't have something like "The China Syndrome" the movie that got everybody worried about something like Three Mile Island happening And you know a packed-dirt dam cracking is not as exotic I guess as those cooling, | well, it was more it was more remote. you didn't have something like "the china syndrome," the movie that got everybody worried about something like three mile island happening. and, you know, a packed-dirt dam cracking is not as exotic, i guess, as those cooling towers. |
And I don't know how much had to do with the fact that there were white people or Indians involved. | and i don't know, how much had to do with the fact that there were white, people or indians | And I don't. know how, much had to do with the fact that there were white people or Indians | and i don't know how much had to do with the fact that there were white people or indians involved. |
And so where does it stand today with all this - you had all this water and all this radioactivity 30 years ago. You have the mines. You have the homes built out of cement made that may still be radioactive today. Has it been cleaned up? What's the state of it now? | and so where does it. stand today with all this - you, had all, this water and all this radioactivity, 30 years ago you have the mines, you have the homes built out of cement made that may still be radioactive today has it been, cleaned, up? what's the state of it, | And so where does it stand today with all. this - you had all this water and all this radioactivity 30 years ago You have the mines. You have the homes built out of cement made that may still be. radioactive today. Has it been cleaned up? What's. the state of it | and so where does it stand today with all this - you had all this water and all this radioactivity 30 years ago. you have the mines. you have the homes built out of cement made that may still be radioactive today. has it been cleaned up? what's the state of it now? |
Well, they're working on it. There have been efforts, in fits and starts, since the '90s, very incomplete and of course very late even then. | well. they're working on it there have been efforts in fits and starts since the '90s very, incomplete and, of course very late even | Well they're working on it There have been efforts in fits and starts since the '90s very incomplete and of course, very late even | well, they're working on it. there have been efforts, in fits and starts, since the '90s, very incomplete and of course very late even then. |
But in 2007, after I wrote a newspaper series for the LA Times about the environmental problems, Henry Waxman held a hearing and has since then been kind of holding several agencies' feet to the fire. And they're in year two of a five-year clean up plan. They've been knocking down contaminated houses and replacing them... | but in 2007, after i wrote a newspaper series for the la times about the environmental problems henry waxman held. a hearing and has since then been, kind of holding several agencies' feet to the fire and they're in year two of a, five-year clean up plan they've been knocking down contaminated houses and replacing them... | But in 2007, after I wrote a newspaper series for the LA Times. about the, environmental problems Henry Waxman held a hearing. and has, since then been kind, of, holding several agencies' feet, to the fire And they're in year two of a, five-year clean up plan They've been knocking. down contaminated houses, and replaci... | but in 2007, after i wrote a newspaper series for the la times about the environmental problems, henry waxman held a hearing and has since then been kind of holding several agencies' feet to the fire. and they're in year two of a five-year clean up plan. they've been knocking down contaminated houses and replacing them... |
But that's not his congressional district, is it? | but that's not his congressional district is | But that's not his congressional district is | but that's not his congressional district, is it? |
No. | no. | ||
He doesn't have anything to do with Arizona, does he? | he doesn't have anything to do with arizona does | He doesn't have anything to do with Arizona does | he doesn't have anything to do with arizona, does he? |
No. He - and, in fact, he waited for a while because he thought that after the series ran, somebody who represented Navajos would step forward. But there is no predominantly Navajo district. They're kind of split up among a number of different people, and there's not a lot of clout there. And it kept nagging at Waxman.... | no he - and. in fact he waited for a while because he thought that after the series ran somebody who represented navajos would step forward but there is no predominantly navajo district. they're kind of. split up among a number. of different people and there's not a lot of clout there and it kept nagging at waxman he r... | No He - and in, fact he waited for a while because; he thought that after the series ran somebody who represented Navajos would step forward But there is no predominantly Navajo district They're kind of split up among a number of different people and there's not a lot of clout. there And it kept nagging at Waxman He re... | no. he - and, in fact, he waited for a while because he thought that after the series ran, somebody who represented navajos would step forward. but there is no predominantly navajo district. they're kind of split up among a number of different people, and there's not a lot of clout there. and it kept nagging at waxman.... |
Mm-hmm. 1-800-989-8255. Talking with Judy Pasternak, author of "Yellow Dirt: An American Story of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed." You can also tweet us @scifri, @-S-C-I-F-R-I. Let's see if we can go to the phones. We got a caller to - Pavel(ph) in Laramie, Wyoming. Hi. Welcome to SCIENCE FRIDAY. | mm-hmm, 1-800-989-8255. talking with judy pasternak author of "yellow dirt: an american story of a, poisoned land and a people betrayed" you can, also. tweet us @scifri @-s-c-i-f-r-i let's see, if, we can, go to the phones, we got a caller to - pavel(ph) in laramie wyoming hi welcome to science | Mm-hmm 1-800-989-8255. Talking with. Judy Pasternak author of "Yellow Dirt: An American Story of a. Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed" You can also tweet us @scifri @-S-C-I-F-R-I Let's see if we can go to. the phones We. got, a caller to - Pavel(ph) in Laramie Wyoming Hi Welcome to SCIENCE | mm-hmm. 1-800-989-8255. talking with judy pasternak, author of "yellow dirt: an american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed." you can also tweet us @scifri, @-s-c-i-f-r-i. let's see if we can go to the phones. we got a caller to - pavel(ph) in laramie, wyoming. hi. welcome to science friday. |
Hi, Ira, Judy. I'm a retired science teacher. In fact, I used to work for the Wyoming Geological Survey for our marvelous dude Dan Miller, when our Wyoming uranium boom happened a couple of decades ago. And it shut down - when it went bust, it shut down an entire town, Atlantic City. | hi ira judy i'm. a retired science teacher in fact i used to work for the wyoming geological survey for our marvelous, dude dan miller when our wyoming uranium boom happened a couple of decades ago and it shut down - when it went bust it shut down an entire town atlantic | Hi Ira Judy I'm a, retired science teacher In fact I used to work for the Wyoming Geological Survey. for our marvelous dude Dan Miller when our Wyoming, uranium. boom happened a couple of decades ago And it shut down - when it, went bust it shut; down an, entire town, Atlantic | hi, ira, judy. i'm a retired science teacher. in fact, i used to work for the wyoming geological survey for our marvelous dude dan miller, when our wyoming uranium boom happened a couple of decades ago. and it shut down - when it went bust, it shut down an entire town, atlantic city. |
My concern, as an environmentalist, is what, if anything, have you heard about Wyoming's ability to deal with - or their - and their track record to deal with something like this compared to Arizona's? And I do know, for the most part, though, it's a solution mining and not so much hands on. Any feedback? Did you learn... | my concern as an environmentalist is. what if anything have you heard about wyoming's ability to deal with - or their - and their track record to deal with something like this compared to. arizona's? and i do know for, the most part though; it's a solution mining and not so much hands on any, feedback? did you, learn a... | My concern as an environmentalist is what if anything, have you heard about. Wyoming's, ability to deal with - or their - and their track record to deal with something like. this compared to Arizona's? And I do know for the most part though it's a solution mining, and not so much hands on Any feedback? Did you learn ab... | my concern, as an environmentalist, is what, if anything, have you heard about wyoming's ability to deal with - or their - and their track record to deal with something like this compared to arizona's? and i do know, for the most part, though, it's a solution mining and not so much hands on. any feedback? did you learn... |
Yeah. I know solution mining is going on in Wyoming. And this is a new technology. There's a lot of interest in new mining in the Navajo area, as well. It's going on already in Wyoming and Texas. And this is where you - basically, the companies would send chemicals, but it's - like seltzer, really, to scrub the uranium... | yeah, i know solution mining is going on in wyoming and this is a new technology there's a lot of interest in new mining. in the navajo; area as well it's. going on already in wyoming and texas and this is. where you - basically the companies would send chemicals but it's - like seltzer really to, scrub the uranium and... | Yeah I know solution mining is going on in. Wyoming And this, is, a new, technology There's a lot of interest in new mining in the Navajo area as well It's going, on already in Wyoming and Texas And this is. where you - basically the companies would send chemicals but it's. - like seltzer, really to. scrub the uranium ... | yeah. i know solution mining is going on in wyoming. and this is a new technology. there's a lot of interest in new mining in the navajo area, as well. it's going on already in wyoming and texas. and this is where you - basically, the companies would send chemicals, but it's - like seltzer, really, to scrub the uranium... |
There's a lot of - there are concerns about how clean they can get the water once they've polluted it. And there are - I know in Wyoming, there were concerns to about how long it takes to clean up when you are shutting down a mine like that. | there's a lot of - there are concerns about how clean they. can get the, water once they've polluted it and there are - i know in wyoming there were concerns to about how long it takes to clean up when you are shutting down a mine, like | There's a, lot of - there are concerns about, how clean they, can get the water once they've polluted it And there are - I know in Wyoming there were concerns to about how long it takes. to clean up when you are shutting down a mine like | there's a lot of - there are concerns about how clean they can get the water once they've polluted it. and there are - i know in wyoming, there were concerns to about how long it takes to clean up when you are shutting down a mine like that. |
Mm-hmm. We're talking about mining and radioactivity, a book, "Yellow Dirt," with Judy Pasternak on SCIENCE FRIDAY, from NPR. | mm-hmm we're talking about mining and radioactivity; a book "yellow, dirt" with judy pasternak on science friday from | Mm-hmm We're talking about mining; and radioactivity a book "Yellow Dirt" with Judy Pasternak on SCIENCE FRIDAY from. | mm-hmm. we're talking about mining and radioactivity, a book, "yellow dirt," with judy pasternak on science friday, from npr. |
Where was the government, as they call it, the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, doing all of this time? It existed. | where was, the government, as they call it the environmental protection agency the epa doing all of this time? it | Where was the government as they call it the Environmental Protection Agency the EPA doing all of this time? It | where was the government, as they call it, the environmental protection agency, the epa, doing all of this time? it existed. |
Right. It existed starting in the '70s. | right it existed starting in. the | Right It existed, starting in the | right. it existed starting in the '70s. |
Right. | right. | ||
If the Los Angeles study it goes well, the doctors say they hope to scale this up and it enlist barbers across the country to help fight hypertension. Shereen Marisol Meraji, NPR News. | if the, los angeles study it goes well the doctors say they hope to scale this up and it enlist barbers across the country to help fight hypertension shereen marisol meraji, npr | If the Los. Angeles study it goes well, the doctors say they hope to scale this up and it, enlist barbers across the country to help fight hypertension Shereen Marisol Meraji NPR | if the los angeles study it goes well, the doctors say they hope to scale this up and it enlist barbers across the country to help fight hypertension. shereen marisol meraji, npr news. |
So it was that - well, after the mining, but the - this was not a big priority for the EPA Superfund, which is the big law that covers cleaning up toxic sites, was really not created for a situation like Navajo, because what happened is you'd have a lot of exposure, but you'd have very few people compared to a populati... | so it was that - well after, the mining, but the - this. was not a big priority for the epa superfund which is the big, law that, covers cleaning up toxic sites, was really not created for a situation. like navajo because what. happened is you'd have a lot of exposure but you'd have very few people compared to a popula... | So, it, was that - well after the mining but the - this was not a big priority for the EPA Superfund which is the big law that covers cleaning up toxic sites was really not created for a situation like Navajo because, what happened is you'd have a lot of exposure but you'd. have. very few people compared to a populatio... | so it was that - well, after the mining, but the - this was not a big priority for the epa superfund, which is the big law that covers cleaning up toxic sites, was really not created for a situation like navajo, because what happened is you'd have a lot of exposure, but you'd have very few people compared to a populati... |
And so even though the Navajos - there might be fewer of them, but they would be exposed in many more ways than in most other areas because they didn't have and still don't have - a significant number of them still don't have running water. You don't go to a faucet and get your water. So they drank this stuff. And they... | and so even, though the, navajos - there might be, fewer of them but. they would be exposed, in. many more ways, than in most other areas because they didn't have and still don't have, - a significant number of, them still don't have running water you don't. go to a faucet and get your water, so they; drank this stuff,... | And so even though, the Navajos - there might. be fewer, of them but, they would be exposed in many more ways than in most other areas because they didn't have and still don't, have - a significant number of them still don't, have running water. You don't go to a faucet and get your water So they drank this stuff And t... | and so even though the navajos - there might be fewer of them, but they would be exposed in many more ways than in most other areas because they didn't have and still don't have - a significant number of them still don't have running water. you don't go to a faucet and get your water. so they drank this stuff. and they... |
And during the Manhattan Project and the Cold War, there was no obstacle that would stand in the way of getting this stuff out. It was urgent. But the urgency evaporated afterwards. National security wasn't at stake. It was just Navajo lives. | and during the manhattan project and the cold war there was no obstacle that would stand in the way of getting this stuff out it, was, urgent but the urgency evaporated afterwards, national security wasn't at stake it was just navajo | And during the Manhattan. Project and the Cold War there was no obstacle that would stand in the way of getting this stuff out It was urgent But the urgency evaporated afterwards, National security wasn't at stake It was just Navajo | and during the manhattan project and the cold war, there was no obstacle that would stand in the way of getting this stuff out. it was urgent. but the urgency evaporated afterwards. national security wasn't at stake. it was just navajo lives. |
Yeah. And where do the Navajo stand today? What is their stance on uranium mining? Is it a political issue of the Navajo nation, or economic or what? | yeah and where. do the navajo stand today? what is; their stance on uranium mining? is it a political issue of the navajo nation or economic or | Yeah And where do the Navajo stand today? What is. their. stance on uranium mining? Is, it a political issue of the Navajo nation or economic or | yeah. and where do the navajo stand today? what is their stance on uranium mining? is it a political issue of the navajo nation, or economic or what? |
It's a hot issue, pardon the pun. It's a - in 2005, the tribal council passed a uranium ban, a uranium mining ban on the reservation. They don't want more mining in - wow, there are still wastes from the last round of how - and that this was something that was considered for a long time and was - they didn't pass it fo... | it's a hot; issue pardon the pun it's a. - in 2005, the tribal council passed a uranium ban a uranium mining. ban on the reservation they. don't want more mining in - wow there are still. wastes from the last round, of how - and that this was; something that was considered for a long time and was - they didn't pass it ... | It's a hot issue pardon the pun It's a - in 2005, the tribal council passed a uranium ban a uranium mining ban on the reservation They don't want more mining, in - wow there are still wastes from the last round of. how; - and that this was something, that was considered for a long time and was - they, didn't pass it fo... | it's a hot issue, pardon the pun. it's a - in 2005, the tribal council passed a uranium ban, a uranium mining ban on the reservation. they don't want more mining in - wow, there are still wastes from the last round of how - and that this was something that was considered for a long time and was - they didn't pass it fo... |
But they did pass it, and now there's a big court battle going on to see whether that ban applies in an area where that is not part of Navajo country, but is not reservation proper, called the Checkerboard. And there are people that have mineral rights to mine there now, and there's a big fight going on. | but, they did pass it and now there's a big court battle going on to see whether that ban. applies in an area, where, that is not part. of, navajo country but is not reservation. proper; called the. checkerboard and there are people that have mineral, rights to mine there now and there's a. big fight going | But they; did pass it and now there's a big court battle going, on to see whether that ban applies in an area where. that is. not part of Navajo country but is. not reservation proper called the Checkerboard And there are people. that have mineral rights to mine there now and there's a big fight going | but they did pass it, and now there's a big court battle going on to see whether that ban applies in an area where that is not part of navajo country, but is not reservation proper, called the checkerboard. and there are people that have mineral rights to mine there now, and there's a big fight going on. |
So there's action within the Navajo nation itself, some controversy there about where - how to proceed. | so there's action, within the navajo nation itself some controversy there about, where - how to | So there's action within the Navajo, nation itself, some controversy there about where - how to | so there's action within the navajo nation itself, some controversy there about where - how to proceed. |
Absolutely. | absolutely. | ||
And any - as someone who's covered this issue, where do you think it will all come - where the fallout will be - no pun intended on this? | and any - as someone. who's covered this issue. where do you think it will all come - where the fallout will; be - no pun intended. on | And any - as someone who's. covered this issue where do you, think it will all come - where the fallout will be - no pun intended on | and any - as someone who's covered this issue, where do you think it will all come - where the fallout will be - no pun intended on this? |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite, of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Well, I don't know. It's - you know, right now, the Navajo president and the Navajo Tribal Council seemed pretty intent on preventing mining. They've got a there's Navajo attorney general. I mean, they've got a government that's modeled on the federal government who's been pretty aggressive in court. They are getting ... | well i don't know it's - you know. right now the navajo president and the; navajo tribal council seemed pretty intent on preventing mining they've got a; there's navajo attorney general i mean they've got a government that's, modeled on the federal government who's been pretty aggressive in court they are, getting hel... | Well I don't know It's - you know right now the Navajo president and the Navajo Tribal Council seemed pretty intent on preventing mining They've got a, there's Navajo attorney general I mean they've got, a government that's modeled on the federal government who's been pretty aggressive in. court They are getting help ... | well, i don't know. it's - you know, right now, the navajo president and the navajo tribal council seemed pretty intent on preventing mining. they've got a there's navajo attorney general. i mean, they've got a government that's modeled on the federal government who's been pretty aggressive in court. they are getting ... |
Right, right. | right | Right. | right, right. |
...politic changes. So they could undo it someday. | ...politic changes so, they could undo it | ...politic changes So they could undo it | ...politic changes. so they could undo it someday. |
Right. Judy, we've run out of time. I want to thank you very much for being a guest today and sharing with us your book "Yellow Dirt: An American Story of a Poisoned Land and a People Betrayed," by Judy Pasternak. Thank you, Judy, for being with us today. | right judy we've run out of time i want to thank you very much for being a guest today and sharing with us your book "yellow dirt: an american story of a poisoned land and a, people betrayed" by judy pasternak thank. you judy for being with, us | Right Judy we've run out of time I want to thank you very much for being a guest today and sharing with us. your book "Yellow Dirt: An American Story, of a Poisoned Land and. a People Betrayed" by Judy Pasternak Thank you Judy for being with. us | right. judy, we've run out of time. i want to thank you very much for being a guest today and sharing with us your book "yellow dirt: an american story of a poisoned land and a people betrayed," by judy pasternak. thank you, judy, for being with us today. |
Thanks, Ira. | thanks | Thanks | thanks, ira. |
We're going to take a break. And when we come back, we want to hear about your geeky, spooky Halloween projects. We've got some ideas how to spook up your house, residence, yard, whatever - your own costume from a lot of geeky advice. So stay with us. We'll be right back. | we're going to take a break and when we come back we, want to hear about your geeky spooky. halloween projects we've got some ideas, how to spook. up your house residence yard whatever - your own costume from a lot of geeky advice so stay with us we'll be right | We're going to take a break And when we come back we want to hear about your geeky spooky Halloween projects We've got some ideas how to spook, up, your house residence yard whatever - your. own costume from a lot of geeky advice So stay with us We'll be right | we're going to take a break. and when we come back, we want to hear about your geeky, spooky halloween projects. we've got some ideas how to spook up your house, residence, yard, whatever - your own costume from a lot of geeky advice. so stay with us. we'll be right back. |
(Soundbite of music) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of music) |
I'm Ira Flatow. This is SCIENCE FRIDAY, from NPR. | i'm ira flatow this is science friday from | I'm Ira Flatow, This is SCIENCE FRIDAY from | i'm ira flatow. this is science friday, from npr. |
Barbershops are a traditional gathering place for African-American men - a spot to talk politics and sports, and to gossip. Now some doctors in Los Angeles are hoping to make the barbershop a place for combating high blood pressure among black men. NPR's Shereen Marisol Meraji reports. | barbershops are a traditional gathering place for african-american men - a spot to talk politics and. sports and to gossip now some doctors in los angeles, are hoping to make the barbershop a place for combating high blood pressure among black men npr's shereen marisol, meraji | Barbershops are. a traditional gathering place for African-American, men - a spot to talk politics and sports and to gossip Now some doctors in Los Angeles are hoping to make the. barbershop a place for; combating high blood pressure among, black men NPR's Shereen Marisol Meraji | barbershops are a traditional gathering place for african-american men - a spot to talk politics and sports, and to gossip. now some doctors in los angeles are hoping to make the barbershop a place for combating high blood pressure among black men. npr's shereen marisol meraji reports. |
Death rates from hypertension are three times higher in African-American men than white men of the same age, says Dr. Ronald Victor. | death rates from hypertension, are. three times higher in african-american; men than white men of the, same age says dr ronald | Death rates from hypertension are. three times higher in African-American men than white men of the same. age says Dr Ronald | death rates from hypertension are three times higher in african-american men than white men of the same age, says dr. ronald victor. |
DR. RONALD VICTOR: Hypertension is one of the biggest reasons why the life expectancy of African-American men is only 69 years. That's a full decade less than white men in this country. | dr. ronald victor: hypertension is one of the biggest reasons why the life expectancy of african-american men is only 69 years that's a full decade less than white men in this | DR RONALD VICTOR: Hypertension is one of the biggest, reasons why the. life expectancy of African-American men is only 69 years That's a full decade less than white men in this | dr. ronald victor: hypertension is one of the biggest reasons why the life expectancy of african-american men is only 69 years. that's a full decade less than white men in this country. |
Victor heads the Center for Hypertension at Cedar's Sinai in Los Angeles. He just got $8.5 million this week from the National Institutes of Health to get barbers around the city trained to take their patient's blood pressure. He's working with Dr. Anthony Reid on the study. Reid's a cardiologist in nearby Inglewood, a... | victor heads the center for hypertension at cedar's sinai in los. angeles he just got $8.5 million. this week from the national institutes of health to get barbers around the. city trained to, take their patient's blood, pressure he's, working with dr anthony reid on the study reid's a cardiologist in nearby inglewood ... | Victor heads the Center for Hypertension at Cedar's Sinai in, Los Angeles He just got $8.5 million this week from the National Institutes of Health to get barbers around the city trained. to take their patient's blood pressure He's working, with, Dr Anthony Reid on. the study Reid's a cardiologist in nearby Inglewood a... | victor heads the center for hypertension at cedar's sinai in los angeles. he just got $8.5 million this week from the national institutes of health to get barbers around the city trained to take their patient's blood pressure. he's working with dr. anthony reid on the study. reid's a cardiologist in nearby inglewood, a... |
DR. ANTHONY REID: My patients like me, but they love the barber. And they'd much rather go to see the barber than the doctor, typically. | dr, anthony reid: my patients like me but they love the barber and, they'd much rather; go to see the barber than the doctor | DR ANTHONY REID: My patients like me but they love the barber And they'd much rather. go to see the barber than the doctor | dr. anthony reid: my patients like me, but they love the barber. and they'd much rather go to see the barber than the doctor, typically. |
And the idea is instead of starting out by asking patients as usual to come into the hallowed halls of medicine, we're bringing medicine to the people who need it. | and the idea is instead of starting out by asking patients as usual to come into. the hallowed halls of. medicine we're bringing medicine to, the people who need | And the idea is instead of, starting out by asking. patients as usual to come into the hallowed. halls of medicine we're bringing medicine to the people who need | and the idea is instead of starting out by asking patients as usual to come into the hallowed halls of medicine, we're bringing medicine to the people who need it. |
Victor had success with something like this a few years ago in Dallas, Texas, but on a much smaller scale. Here's one of the barbers he worked with. | victor had success with something like this, a few years ago in dallas texas but on a much smaller scale, here's one of, the barbers he worked | Victor had, success. with, something, like this a few years, ago in Dallas Texas but, on a much smaller scale Here's one of the barbers he worked | victor had success with something like this a few years ago in dallas, texas, but on a much smaller scale. here's one of the barbers he worked with. |
I'm always the one that's always asking about - how's your wife, how's your children, how's your mom? | i'm always the one that's always asking about - how's your, wife how's your children how's your | I'm always the one that's always, asking about - how's your wife how's your children how's your | i'm always the one that's always asking about - how's your wife, how's your children, how's your mom? |
James Smith has been shaping up, lining up and fading men's hair in Dallas for 41 years. He says his customers are like family. | james. smith has been shaping, up lining up and fading men's hair in dallas for 41 years he says his; customers are like | James, Smith has, been shaping up lining up and fading men's hair in Dallas for 41 years He says his customers are like | james smith has been shaping up, lining up and fading men's hair in dallas for 41 years. he says his customers are like family. |
So it was easy for me to do that and just say well, look brother, how's your blood pressure? You know, how's your health? | so, it was; easy for, me, to do that and just say, well look brother how's your blood pressure? you know. how's your | So it was easy for me to do that and just, say well look brother, how's your blood pressure? You know how's, your | so it was easy for me to do that and just say well, look brother, how's your blood pressure? you know, how's your health? |
And, Smith says, of all the men he asked to check, only two said no. | and smith says of. all the men he asked to check only two said | And Smith says of all the men he asked to check only; two said | and, smith says, of all the men he asked to check, only two said no. |
We still do it. We have the machine there. And now everybody's conscious of it. Some of them will come in and say hey, man, take my blood pressure, check my blood pressure. You know, they'll come in and ask you to check it. You don't have to check it for them. | we still do. it we have the machine there and now everybody's conscious of it, some, of them will come in and say hey, man take my blood pressure check my blood, pressure you know; they'll come in; and ask you to check it you don't have to check. it for | We still do it We have the machine there And now everybody's conscious of; it Some of them will come in and say hey man take my blood pressure check my blood pressure You know they'll come in and ask you to check it You. don't have to check it for | we still do it. we have the machine there. and now everybody's conscious of it. some of them will come in and say hey, man, take my blood pressure, check my blood pressure. you know, they'll come in and ask you to check it. you don't have to check it for them. |
The doctors say they'll work with about two dozen barbershops in LA and will track at-risk patients for at least 18 months. They have partnerships with low-cost health clinics. And Dr. Reid says he'll see patients who may not have insurance or are cash-strapped. | the doctors say they'll work with about two, dozen barbershops in la and will track at-risk patients for at least 18 months they have partnerships with low-cost health, clinics and dr reid says he'll see patients who may not have insurance, or are | The doctors say they'll work with about two, dozen barbershops in LA and will track at-risk patients for at least 18 months They have partnerships with low-cost health clinics And Dr Reid says he'll see patients who may not have insurance or are | the doctors say they'll work with about two dozen barbershops in la and will track at-risk patients for at least 18 months. they have partnerships with low-cost health clinics. and dr. reid says he'll see patients who may not have insurance or are cash-strapped. |
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