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todayilearned	Nah man I’m not comparing razor wire to slide holes or whatever the fuck we were talking about. I’m saying I agree with you now. We shouldn’t take reasonable and easy precautions to help children avoid harm. We need to let them bleed so they become smart like us. That’s what the wires for. You may not believe it but I study childhood development and you’ve inspired me to work towards finding the perfect balance of blood and tears we must have throughout childhood to grow up to by the ideal human - the rugged baby boomer. If the scale is out of balance we end up with a whiny abuse victim or even worse, someone who according to you research suggests could end up “super bad”.
todayilearned	I dispute that injuries which neither require acute professional treatment or cause chronic problems can be represented as "harm." Weird analogies aside, skinned knees are not a human rights crisis. There's evidence of the opposite, even: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02732173.2011.574038#.VZVSyO1Viko Kids should not be exposed to needless danger, but imagining contrived scenarios that require an aligning of the stars for kids to get hurt as the poster a few up did is bad parenting.
todayilearned	I dispute that injuries which neither require acute professional treatment or cause chronic problems can be represented as "harm." Weird analogies aside, skinned knees are not a human rights crisis. There's evidence of the opposite, even: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02732173.2011.574038#.VZVSyO1Viko Kids should not be exposed to needless danger, but imagining contrived scenarios that require an aligning of the stars for kids to get hurt as the poster a few up did is bad parenting.
todayilearned	Tell that to Heather Heyer who was ran over by a white supremacist at the fucking Nazi rally in Charlottesville, VA. I’m sure she’d beg to differ. Those same Nazis have been chanting “heil Trump” at their rallies, and waving signs that say “lugenpresse”, which translates to “fake news”, the same thing that Hitler’s followers chanted at THEIR rallies. Don’t tell me the Nazis aren’t here. They’re bigger than ever, and the piece of shit in the White House caters to them in order to keep their support.
todayilearned	>Lol wow the media really brainwashed you folks Eehhh, it's more your typical racist ignorance than brainwashing. Cherry pick the worst examples and lump everyone together to fill the holes instead of acknolweding your lack of knowledge. It's shitty, but it's just your garden variety racism rather than some grand conspiracy. P.S. Generalizing "us folks" based on one idiot's comment is literally the same thing. So, you don't exactly have the high ground here...
todayilearned	I had a friend in high school who committed suicide about a week after he posted he was the happiest he had ever been. When talking with the grief counselor I learned that sometimes that's the trigger for people like that. They are so afraid to lose all of this happiness they have strived for, they would rather go out on top, than risk losing it all. Now whether that is true or not for every case, it is an interesting thought. Edit: some extra words
todayilearned	My coworker was just talking about a body she found as a kid. Before commiting suicide the kid had been in a really great mood. He had been going around hanging out with the younger neighborhood kids and giving away all his cool sports stuff and gadgets. He was normally a shutin and his younger brother was the extrovert so everyone thought it was cool he was finally getting out and about. In hindsight giving away all his stuff and being really happy were two huge red flags.
todayilearned	I have depression and I also have very rare happy periods where everything is better. It still breaks my heart every time I start to feel myself coming back down. The first time it happened and I started getting depressed again, I was suicidal because I didn't know when or if I would ever feel better again. I felt like I'd been let out of a prison only to be forced back inside.
todayilearned	Its also a sign of imminent suicide too. If you have a friend who struggles with depression and is usually sort of down. Generally, for a few days or at least hours leading up to suicide they become really happy. Kind of like a light at the end of the tunnel thing, where towards the end they are cheerier. I found out about that one a few weeks too late once.
todayilearned	That could explain why a friend of mine (a brother to me, not blood brother but you know what I mean) committed suicide less than a year ago. He had finally gotten his drug use under control, (as far as we know) had finally gotten over his depression, had gotten engaged to the love of his life, had a good job and was on his way to starting his own restaurant within a few years or so. He had tried to kill himself years before, but as far as everyone knew, he had gotten over all of it
todayilearned	I'm sorry you had to experience that. in the end no one can ever truly know what was going on in that persons mind, but from a weird way I get that thought process. heindseight is always 20/20 and i wish looking back I had seen the other signs. Just know any the impact your friend had in your life was for the better, and that you can honor their memory by just being the you that was their brother.
todayilearned	It can also just be an uptick in energy. Depression is a son of a bitch but it often leaves people so groggy and exhausted that they simply don't have the mental stamina to kill themselves. Depression alleviating can be dangerous because often the physical side effects go before the suicidal ideation. So you feel good you feel energized you feel great...you can finally follow through on that longtime goal of ending it all. Anytime you see a significant change in a short amount of time with person with history of mental health issues it's a sign to be concerned even if the signs themselves aren't initially concerning. For instance, a person who has a history of depression becoming energized and acting outside of their usual behaviors might actually be bipolar and experiencing hypomania.
todayilearned	My brother's best friends suicide note said ; [slightly paraphrasing because it was 20 years ago but its at least 95% accurate. You don't forget some of like this] " I'm so happy. For the first time in my life I'm not being suffocated from the pile of shit, life has constantly dumped on me. It want even that bad, I bet, but depression adds 100 kilos to every problem. I finally have a steady job and that I love. A girlfriend that loves me as much as I love her. This time it's not a one way street. I have [ insert my brother's name] that has been with me through my depression and never gave up on me. Someone I love as a brother and that loves me like his own blood [he was a single child]. For the first time in my life, I love and am loved back for real. I'm going out on a high note. I'm not going back there ever again." (He meant his severe depressive stage). My brother doesn't remember the funeral as he had such an asthma attack due to the stress. He was rushed to the ER and almost followed his friend. He has not been able to forgive him to this day, however, as someone that suffers from severe depression and PTSD myself, I understand why he did it. Though I don't condone what he did and what it did to my brother his mom and dad and girlfriend. His dad had left for work but forgot his briefcase. Turned back within 15 minutes and found his son hanging from the staircase, strangled by wiring from music equipment him and my brother used to make music. On one hand, the pain he caused everyone was immeasurable, on the other hand, the shear terror he must have felt over possibly one day losing what he had at that moment must have been horrific. I can almost understand why he did what he did. The pain he caused my brother is unforgivable to me. However, the note makes it a little easier to understand. [He planned everything for a week before he hung himself. Got his papers in order, wrote the note so the people he loved wouldn't wonder for the rest of their lives, practiced the wire setup, so he couldn't survive, etc.... His dad was 3 minutes too late in getting his briefcase and finding his son. It destroyed the man when they told him. Forgive the long writing. Just felt it applied and wanted to share. RIP Jochen
todayilearned	No problem. The more people share and open up, the better we all understand each other. Everyone is different of course. But it's pretty common for depressed people to shut themselves away because they don't want other people to have to see them in that state, and they can't really handle the concern that people show. It makes them feel too guilty, so they feel like they have to hide their feelings in front of others or be alone. But socializing and/or talking about their problems is helpful. It's not something everyone can manage to do, but if you offer to hang out for a little while, just get out of the house and have a chat with no pressure to either seem okay or talk about their feelings, it can really help. Just don't mention that they look unwell or at least don't show that it bothers you, and just hang out. Or if you can convince them they can talk to you about how they're feeling without ruining your day or making you lose sleep, they might open up more, which is also really helpful. I don't know how to get them to do that, usually people use therapists or talk about it to strangers online for that very reason. One friend would tell me what I told you, to just come out for a little while and she wouldn't ask too much about my state of mind or anything. Another friend would also have occasional depressive episodes, so I knew she already understood these feelings. Small acts of kindness are also great, making them a cup of tea, getting them their favourite snack while you're out.
todayilearned	never apologize for sharing a story. I'm sorry you had to go through that. and yeah I can understand both why someone might choose to, but also why someone can choose not to forgive. I had to learn that everyone grieves in their own way. The incident happened in high school, and I can remember some people getting very weird about how some people didn't seem as sad as others or others seemed "too sad". I myself got swept up in it, while also going through anger at my friend for what he did, sadness that I couldn't do anything, and just utter helplessness that he felt so desperate that was the only way out in his mind.
todayilearned	I remember as a kid growing up in Ontario we would be at school and the snow was so bad that we were going home early. Later in life one realizes why the complete understanding of a suicidal method is such a relief. When all the slings and arrows do not matter they don't really hurt. You no longer have to fight - you are going to 'win' no matter what. It is actually a very scary feeling to change one's mind past this point. Once you realize you want to live, well... all those problems that appear so daunting are waiting for you somewhere in the darkness that is your future. I wish there were more written and said on this subject. The logic is really quite sound and society is relatively toxic on so many levels. Suicidal ideation is not nearly as crazy as people make it out to be.
todayilearned	People with chronic depression have a powerful gift for being there for others. Not 'help' so much as... knowing how people get knocked off their path and how they can get back on again. You have got this. If i could make any request: find people like us when you feel a downswing. They say misery makes good company and that isn't entirely true. When two or more are joined, as the expression goes, there is a profound strength that resounds beyond the moment. You will not believe me, i know - but if you could trust a total stranger on the internet: we need you, your insight, your kindness and your profound wisdom.
todayilearned	This worked for people like Robbin Williams for decades. People would prank him and avoid laughing at his antics / pretend that he was not remotely funny. Those who did these 'practical jokes' found that their unkind efforts would destroy his day quite rapidly. Many amazing people simply live to give, it can be a life-sustaining force. As much as i recommend this giving-loving tactic, this is hard to do when one falls into the [Pit of Despair](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z05StkAKKF0). I found that when i or friends of mine would fall into such a state there might be no getting out for weeks if not months. I try to make fun of this state of being here, sure, but chronic depression is a rough place.
todayilearned	I was sceptical about the term ‘fight to the death’ as it would be ridiculously hard to kill someone by boxing them to death so I went to another [wiki page about another fighter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamo_Arouch) and found this passage: > Lodged with the other fighters forced to participate in these matches and paid in extra food or lighter work, Salamo fought 208 matches in his estimation,[8] knowing that prisoners who lost would be sent to the gas chamber or shot.[5] Fights generally lasted until one fighter went down or the Nazis got tired of watching.
todayilearned	They got poor scores on the gaokao, which is why they had to go to a foreign university. If they had done well, they would have stayed in China and gone to a good school. But, Mom & Dad's money to the rescue. And American colleges are addicted to the outrageous fees. For some reason if Chinese people stopped coming, it would be a disaster for American education. The bottom would fall out of the market overnight and we'd have terrified administrators begging for more public funding to cover the "shortfall".
todayilearned	Out of state tuition was more than double in state tuition at my school and international students paid for everything in cash since they didn't qualify for any financial aid. I'd like to think that their money helped to subsidize my education, since they're part of the reason why my in state tuition was so cheap. Essentially they're exchanging money for a piece of paper and as long as I'm not in groups with these students I'm OK with it. However, Chinese international students were the absolute worst in groups when I was in school.
todayilearned	I teach in an American Uni in a subject popular with Chinese students. With very few exceptions, you have to accept a place in an American university by May 1st. Chinese students take the Gaokao is in June. If they are accepted to a top 100 university and they decide to go, they don't sit for the Gaokao. And many more attend American community colleges to get ready for the next year's university admissions. These are very wealthy families we're are talking about (otherwise they would be denied student visas), and they are looking for the prestige that attending (and paying for) an American University provides. Unless they think their kid is on the way to one of the big two or three Chinese schools, they always choose to go abroad.
todayilearned	Only 1 in 10? I work in biotech, and we commonly get Chinese PhD’s applying who look great on paper but in interviews it becomes obvious that they know absolutely nothing about the subject their supposed degree is in. Like the most basic concepts and techniques (for the curious, molecular biology PhD’s who cannot operate a standard micropipettor). Edit: not to say there aren’t some amazing Chinese scientists in the US, but unfortunately we end up passing over Chinese candidates these days because we’ve been burned in the past. It’s a problem with Indian-trained folks too
todayilearned	It's important to realize exactly how impressive an American degree is considered in China. I knew loads of international kids from India, China, and Korea and about half of them were there to get the degree then go back home. Some of them admitted to fabricated scores too. It's way too common amongst the wealthy around the world and whoever tracks that shit is too corrupt to do anything. Makes me realize that as much as America sucks right now, life here is so much easier.
todayilearned	> And American colleges are addicted to the outrageous fees. For some reason if Chinese people stopped coming, it would be a disaster for American education. That's one way to look at it. From the university's perspective, they're students willing to pay full out of state tuition in cash. Anyone can get into most American universities if you have the money to pay full tuition; It's just that most people are screened out by whether they have the academics to get scholarships (and if you pay full tuition and can't keep up, you'll still flunk out). What the international students choose to make of the education once they get in is up to them. They're subsidizing domestic tuition.
todayilearned	There was a group of them in my math class that cheated during the test and I don’t know why but it broke me. I busted my ass studying because I didn’t understand this section well at all and all they had to do was share answers that they were looking up ON THEIR PHONES. I dropped the class because I couldn’t stand the fact that people get away with shit like that.
todayilearned	At one point in the past decade, 44 of 46 of the most recent (at the time) research publications in (certain science field) journals that were retracted due to academic dishonesty were from Chinese institutions. When looking for literature to support planning out new experiments, I know many people who immediately skip past any articles with only Chinese authors, only investigating them later if there are no other options. So while ranking may not officially be impacted, the reputation is certainly tainted.
todayilearned	Oh it's very true. But you have to understand. Its accepted in their culture. They don't have the same mind set about cheating, copying, or imitating that we do. A bunch of exchange students got in trouble at my university for cheating. It was rampant. Almost every one of them were doing it according to the investigation. Their universities in China saw no issue and threatened to terminate the exchange contract. My university relented as long as they promised not to do it again. In other words, they kept cheating.
todayilearned	College admins act like their schools have every right to bring in international students as cash cows, but Universities don't spring from the ground renewed every semester- they're the result of many decades of Americans working selflessly to build the institutions into what they are today, and those people certainly didn't do it for the benefit of international students. Schools can only hold so many bodies, and most desirable institutions are full every year. That means for every international student in the school there's an American who missed out. Then these students go back to their home countries, taking that education with them. The result is a less educated American populace, all so Admins can build a new gym.
todayilearned	Foreign universities don't have much prestige. Maybe a long time ago, but not today. It's better to go to a Chinese school because it's there you get connections. Employers want connected workers. Go to school in some flyover territory shithole and you come back to China with no connections and a bunch of weird ideas from a backwards culture. China has learned a tremendous amount in recent years about what foreign universities and American ones in particular are really like. They want to believe Chinese universities are better, and the constant stream of craziness from American universities has done a number on their reputation.
todayilearned	I can speak to this based on my personal experience. I went to University of South Florida to get my MBA. I would say that about 1/3 to 1/2 of every class were filled with Chinese students who came to the states to get their MBA. They all needed to have taken the traditional admission test (GMAT) to get in. The GMAT isn't an easy test. I had the non-pleasure to work with quite a few Chinese students... I would say that that about 4/5 of them did not want to do any work and be carried through the class. Half of them seemed like they barely spoke English. It was challenging to have simple conversations. English isn't my first language and so I know what it's like not to speak a language. I tried to include them and make them feel part of the group but the work they submitted had to be completely rewritten, and face to face, they barely understood/spoke English. Students were literally kicked out and yelled at in the middle of exams for cheating. Teachers would go on rants about the issue in the middle of the classroom. I have no idea how 90% of them passed the GMAT. I also hope that USF has taken measures since then. The content and teachers were fantastic but since the majority of the course work revolved around group projects, it ruined the experience. I also had the pleasure of working with couple chinese students who were great. Unfortunately they were by far the minority.
todayilearned	This is literally a post about Chinese cultural norms accepting cheating in academics, it's not like it's an unrelated annecdote lmao I would bet that almost everyone who has gone to a college with a significant international population would have similar stories - I certainly do. I've had discussions with Chinese students about the systems for cheating that have been developed over there- it's very much an aspect of their academic culture
todayilearned	> but unfortunately we end up passing over Chinese candidates these days because we’ve been burned in the past. It’s a problem with Indian-trained folks too I don't see how educational/governmental institutions in China/India don't see this as a huge problem and do something about it. China will withdraw your passport if you misbehave as a tourist, but have no problem with you ruining the country's reputation with your fake phd. Ok.
todayilearned	> Foreign universities don't have much prestige. Is that why a quarter million of China's wealthiest families send their children to the US every year? > It's better to go to a Chinese school because it's there you get connections. Their parents already have connections, and usually far better ones than the average Chinese college professor. > a bunch of weird ideas from a backwards culture [...] and the constant stream of craziness from American universities has done a number on their reputation Chinese students don't major in Gender Studies. They major in economics, business, and STEM disciplines. Troll harder.
todayilearned	It's a massive thing doing my masters too. Im from the uk Not Chinese but people from outside the eu. Paid people to do their homework, somehow convinced the lecturers to tell them exactly what was in the exam. Infuriating they got higher grades than me. I earned my the real way. Does that matter on an application forms? No. They paid a lot more in tuition. It was in the unis interest to turn a blind eye and let them know ow what was in the exams.
todayilearned	>Not really. For public institutions, there's in state tuition, out of state tuition, and international. Less international students does mean less funding, but it also means less kids to teach. So its a tricky balance of how many international students you let in, to cover your budgets but in the end, there's more demand than supply. I've worked for two colleges. No offense, but you could not be more wrong. International students are cash pinatas. They get a whole separate onboarding and a white-glove matriculation experience. They get dedicated tutors and counselors. They get preference for Housing. The marginal revenue of each additional foreign student can easily be 100% greater than a US citizen.
todayilearned	When I graduated with a computer science degree in North Carolina, the undergraduate class was about 80% white, 15% black/eastern asian and 5% western asian. Masters graduates were 40% white, 40% west Asian, 20% east Asian. Doctorate level had 2 white dudes and a white female, 20 east Asians, and 10 west Asians. The degree mill is real. I experienced a very similar cross section when helping the company I worked for do Job fairs. Lots and lots of East and West Asians with masters degrees from my school and a poor grasp of English. (I mention the language barrier because I was working for a consultant company and upper management just wouldn't hire someone with a profound language barrier because everyone had to interact with clients. Even if the person was a wiz programmer) &#x200B; Edit: South Asia, not West
todayilearned	Out of curiosity, could you point me in the direction of where you heard this figure? I'm in my undergrad at a US university (as an international student), and it truly astounds me how many international students from China don't have the english proficiency to read and write at an academic level. It is my understanding that to apply for schools in the states (as an international student) you need to pass an english proficiency exam - something I was waived from because I am from Canada. Nevermind how difficult it is to interact socially when there is a language barrier, working with students who simply can't speak english well enough is a massive headache and leads me to wonder if they got 'help' in passing their english proficiency.
todayilearned	As an American living in China from 2011-2013. This is a way of life. They cheat with school, games, anything to get ahead. Cheat at the Gaokao and post graduation you have Chinese students who only know how to memorize and cheat. They have absolutely zero trouble shooting skills or the ability to think critically or for themselves. It's absolutely ridiculous. I was hired by Shenhua after I left the USAF serving my 12th year. They needed an engineer with skills in the above mentioned to include QA and creating abridged oversight. I basically took over the job being done by 13 Chinese workers, half of whom were older than me. I love the people individually and the time I spent there but the country as a collective and their government are a serious problem not just to themselves but to the world if they somehow break into prominence. Cheating and stealing IP is only the surface of what people know about the country unfortunately. It goes so much deeper. Anything to get ahead.
todayilearned	I had a professor kick a few chinese students out of her class because she felt they didn't understand what was being taught. My school was around 50% international students, almost all Asian (Korea/China/Japan mostly) and they hardly spoke English well enough to understand that there were assignments they needed to do. I figured understanding the language the school taught all classes in would be important to their admission, but apparently not. I'll note that at this point I was in level 2 of this class, so they'd somehow succeeded in level 1.
todayilearned	My business program was probably 15-20% Asian, mostly Chinese. They would constantly cheat by sharing identical papers/assignments with one another and turning them into different teachers. It was pretty well known among the students so I can only imagine the faculty was aware, too, but for whatever reason just didn't do anything about it. I've been through several classes where Chinese students could barely speak the language and thus never participated...sometimes not even bringing things to class. Yet they would show up every day and I assume pass. I really don't quite know what was up with that. I realize their families pay fucking freighters full of money to the school for them to attend but it surprises me that the school would devalue its programs like that.
todayilearned	It's shit like this that really makes me want to hate China. They don't play by the same rules as the rest of the international community and everyone seems ok to let them, whether its matters of education, business, or policy the CCP can get away with whatever they want. I know it's not as simple as that, international relations never are, but I'm sure it is a true enough sentiment for most people to agree with me.
todayilearned	This is just an anecdote, but I know some technicians who work with high tech microbiology equipment. They go to laboratories to teach doctors and researchers how to use the equipment and make sure they're all set up. They say that a significant portion of the people they present to are Chinese who have just recently immigrated to the US and were hired by these companies on the spot. When they get to the 1 on 1 training phase with them, it became clear to them that they were totally lost. As in, they didn't even understand the fundamentals that they should have learned while in school.
todayilearned	not really. Some of the students wouldn't cheat, while others don't treat it seriously at all. Out of the ~10 Chinese grad students we had that year, 2 cheated while the other 8 were super serious and would never consider cheating. My friend copied my homework without asking me, and as a result we both got 0. I was very angry because I cared, and she laughed it off. We were both in PhD program and both Chinese btw. She didn't even have the decency to tell the teacher I didn't know and shouldn't be punished. I lucked out and still managed to get an A. I guess the teachers can tell from participation and other activities. when we TA'ed, about 50% of the cheaters we caught would be Chinese. 40% would be Indian, and the other 10% American. Out of the tens of cases we elevated, only one saw being given an F. One that cheated openly in the final received nothing. we started to take videos, but the admin still wouldn't do nothing. it was frustrating.
todayilearned	I was in this very situation, and we asked to have someone removed and we were refused. This guy in our group was not only not doing shit, but he was actively ruining work that we were doing. Guy was a complete whacko, but we had to put up with him. And this was at a top ranked university, mind you. Through both my bachelor's and master's degree it was the only time I nearly got in a physical fight as an adult, dealing with that idiot. He was like a big bumbling 40 year old bully.
todayilearned	In Australia there's a rule that basically says that if you study here from overseas, you cannot fail a unit or your get sent back in university. One guy in an accounting class for a group project basically did nothing, thought he could pay the others in the group to write his name in the credits and... well they were annoyed. He failed, was deported and an email was sent to everyone regarding the idiocy of trying to skip out on work in an assignment.
todayilearned	From my personal experience, I'd say well above that - perhaps a 4/10, or maybe even half. The culture of cheating, cutting corners and basically gaining an upper hand is so pervasive that it's almost foolish for them \not\ to do so. If anything, it makes us idiots because we were not taking advantage of the exploits on deck. &#x200B; I remember when a Chinese classmate was busted during our Human Biology final exam some years ago. This was in a top community college in California, and the dude brought in his girlfriend from UCLA to take a separate exam next to him. He got caught when the professor decided to 'card' the girl and she couldn't procure a student ID or memorize her student ID number. I mean, she couldn't, because she didn't even go to this school. When I went on to university, I actively avoided getting into group assignments with Chinese students. A friend of mine unfortunately got placed into a group with one, and on the first meeting, the lone Chinese kid in the group whipped out a USB drive. It was filled with the entire semester's assignments, fully completed, mind you - courtesy of Chinese students who took the class in the past.
todayilearned	You have to look at the kind of people that are able to afford coming to the US to study. Many rich and influential families are sending their children overseas, and since their kids aren’t always the best and brightest, cheating is a common tool used to ensure their academics are acceptable to US colleges (who honestly don’t have a huge incentive to look too closely since those foreign students are paying hefty tuitions).
todayilearned	Somehow I suspect I would have a better idea whether I cheated or not than you. I never cheated on a test, or a quiz, or peeked at anyone's answers, or hid answers in my notes/phone/calculator. I never did because I decided I wasn't going to, and it was a fairly easy decision to not only make but uphold during my entire education. Your personal experience doesn't represent everyone else, nor does your cynical view on the matter.
todayilearned	I TA'd a bunch of EE masters level classes, and frequently had a higher case of blatant cheating from my Chinese students. From having their phone in their laps during exams to straight up plagiarizing on homeworks and projects... I even had one student plagiarize word for word from a paper I had written a few years ago on the same subject. Flattering... but I still need to write you up for it. EDIT: It actually got so bad at my University that they implemented a testing process for all incoming graduate students that didn't receive undergraduate degrees from an accredited institution. The test was to ensure they actually knew the subject material they professed to have an undergrad degree in. A potential student would only be provisionally accepted into the program until they passed the test, and weren't eligible to become a TA or an RA or publish any papers until they had. And of course, the second year they gave that test, students cheated by getting the questions/answers from the previous year's students. So the professors had to write custom questions every year. This actually became a boon since they questions could be shared out once the test was over to act as a review for those needing to brush up on some material. After one particularly bad semester of cheating students, I complained to my advisor, and he shared with me the statistics about pass/fail rates for that onboarding test. I was shocked at how many people failed the test - the tests I looked like never seemed very difficult.
todayilearned	A lot probably. It is a very wide spread belief and part of their culture. "If i can get away with it and not get caught, i did nothing wrong. The person who didnt catch me was the wrong one." EDIT: For the record I am not trying to crap on Chinese people and culture, I honestly love China and the people over there. I've learned this cultural phenomena while traveling there several times and have had it explained to me that way by Chinese people, in China.
todayilearned	Here's the lesson you needed to learn: College is not a competition. It's irrelevant if someone else is cheating. It does not affect how much you need to study or what you can learn. The goal of college is to introduce you to the concepts of subjects and give you a space in order to find your ability to learn. Anecdotally, I was once in a class (programming) where I knew most of the class was cheating. I was approached and asked if I wanted the test banks and I declined. I was making better grades than 99% of the class already so it seemed pointless and I really wanted to learn the material on my own. I was actually interested in the subject. About 4 weeks later, the professor asked me to hold back after a class as everyone was leaving. She said, "I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your effort and integrity. I've known many of them were cheating for weeks by using a test bank. I've been slowly and subtly changing questions to verify my suspicions. You are likely the only person not cheating on tests." I felt some amount of pride at that, but as an adult looking back to that moment, what it really taught me was that my drive to learn far surpassed my desire for a perfect grade and that was the turning moment of education for me. It's not about a grade. It never should be. We use grades as barometers, but they are faulty at even that. If there is something you are passionate about learning, you don't need a grade to let you know how you are doing. You'll know where you stand in comparison to where you want to be.
todayilearned	I hate that this is the mentality, I had a similar issue with a group (of all white kids mind you) and thankfully my teacher called them out on their nonsense, forced them to repeat all of the classes they took that entire semester. If teachers don't want you to end up with bad coworkers, they need to do their part to stop those lazy morons from getting to the workforce in the first place.
todayilearned	In my graduate program more than a decade ago, we were asked to grade and critique our peers for a random assignment for one class. I had been assigned a foreign, Chinese student’s paper. It was so poorly written and so obviously copied straight from the textbook that I was astonished. It was also about a quarter the expected length and severely lacking in detail and critical thinking. I was harsh but fair in my criticism to them, but was still disappointed that they had been accepted into a program I had thought would have been more selective. I still wonder if it was a language barrier or if they were simply unqualified.
todayilearned	I learned a ton but most of it was outside of classes. Learned a bunch on the job that I had with the university building computer networks. Learned how to make contacts in the industry that lead to my first job out of college. Learned how to drink socially without being a sloppy asshole that people want to avoid. Learned that I suck at picking up women. It was a nice way for me to figure out my personality for a few years in a sort of middle world between childhood and adult life. Can't say I use much that I learned in the classroom though.
todayilearned	A lot of graduate students in the US are students who completed their undergrad out of the country. I personally know quite a few Indians and Chinese grad students who admitted that they cheated in their undergrad career. In India, you'll find a bunch of students bribing their teachers for a 25% bump in their grades. Then some of them make it to the US to complete a PhD and they absolutely muck up the place.
todayilearned	I have pretty much the same story. The one time I got lumped in with some Chinese students for a group project in a business course, I ended up pulling an all-nighter rewriting all of their sections which were precise word-for-word copies of the source texts (texts which I had previously researched for them because they pretended not to know enough English to use the library properly). Then the other American and I spent the next morning (the day of paper submission and live presentation) merging and editing the sections and putting together the powerpoint slides the Chinese kids also never did.
todayilearned	It really depends on the major. In CS, I’ve seen professors try to get students expelled, even if they’ve never even received a warning before if the cheating/plagiarism was blatant or frequent. It sounds weird, when code is borrowed so often in CS, but we do that while providing attribution. Providing attribution is so important that I’ve been told at the start of two classes: > if you borrow code and provide proper attribution, I don’t care if the entire project is borrowed code stitched together, just provide the required documentation ...something like that. If you can’t use the concepts properly in CS, we need you transferring out after the first or second class. This was the most common suggestion amongst my university’s last graduating class: making Freshman classes harder. Upperclassmen were pestered by a lot of students who were subtly cheating themselves out of their education, and thus the ability to actually graduate in that field, let alone do the work required honestly. This is common in many technical fields, but especially in lucrative ones like CS/IT and such.
todayilearned	When I TA’d, the Chinese International students cheated to a degree that shocked me. More than half the Chinese international students cheated obviously and outrageously (down to half a dozen or more of them at a time with all the same spelling mistakes or copy errors) vs one or two out of of the entire rest of the class at most. I couldn’t figure out how they were going to function in an actual job. This didn’t apply to Chinese Canadian students, just International students.
todayilearned	I found its not that they didnt do their parts, but that youd have to change everyones parts to be coherent together because their english usually isnt the best. That means you have to read through all their parts and try to understand exactly what they were trying to say while rewording it so the whole thing still flows together. If theres a presentation it's even worse bcause you cant have broken english all over slides or whatever so you have to figure out what people were trying to say, reword it to make it good and then coach them on what you changed and make sure they understand, it ends up being a lot of fucking work
todayilearned	I've been in a group where everyone didnt meet when they said they would, and I was the only one going. Then two of them, roommates, did something on their own and tried to pretend the rest of the group wasn't doing shit. The rest of us ganged up on them and did our own shit and it was such a fucking mess and we had to involve the professor who didnt give one fuck. We ended up deciding that those two would give a part and them we'd follow up with our parts and it was fucking stupid. Professors really need to stop making a whole semester based on a 5 person project and act like team building skills are an excuse to give everyone of the group the same grade. It's so fucking unfair. This is about an individual's education, not team building in a work environment. Work is completely fucking different and if you dont keep up you get fired. In a group project it's like a job where a whole team assembled of strangers has no boss and no one to catch this shit. Completely different environment.
todayilearned	I did a project with a Chinese kid in community college. We split a report into sections. I did mine and got his to compile into one paper. I start reading his stuff and it felt familiar so I copied his stuff into Google and it was word for word a copy of a source I had quoted. I told him that shit isn't going to fly and to redo it. A few hours later he sends me another copy and paste of another article. I showed it to my instructor and she let me do it myself. Pretty sure he failed.
todayilearned	I had a class with two exchange students, I got paired into their group for a class exercise that had us locate things on a map of the campus geographically. We would go through each problem, and I'd work through with them how to solve each one, at the end one girl pulled out her phone with pictures of the packet completely filled out and graded identical to the sheet we had been working on for the last hour.
todayilearned	Personally I want to learn, I really want to learn the subject that I signed up for school to study. Its electives I have a beef about. I want to study computer science but for my associate's degree for example, my comp sci classes are done after two semesters and the rest is just bullshit humanities electives and shit. I am a 36 year old already working a career job, and having to pay thousands of dollars for irrelevant shit like writing dozens of pages on film and anthropology just really, really fucking gets on my nerves. It is a detriment to my development as a programmer because that's what I end up doing instead of practicing the thing I'm actually paying to learn to do. I just don't have the time money or patience for it, it doesn't better me in any meaningful way, it only adds to the heap of other stressful pointless shit on my plate and makes me 10x more likely to quit or just give someone some weed to write my papers. I would NEVER do such a thing under ANY circumstances I'm just saying hypothetically I'm more likely to.
todayilearned	And not only universities but colleges too, I was in a technical school and had 4 Chinese guys in my class, only 1 of them was even interested in graduating with any sort of knowledge. One of the guys was just running his parents business in China from Canada, it was absurd (he bought the closest house to the college, not even joking the one right at the very corner of the college road, house wasn't even up for sale).
todayilearned	You can whistle past the graveyard all you like. Chinese people want to believe they're the best in the world. Best learning is in China, of course. Heck, today is Teachers Day in China. I bet your country doesn't even have a teachers day, or if it does it's one of those dumb holidays like secretaries day. You think stories from the US don't make it to China? Of course they do. You think they don't have an effect on what Chinese think of US universities? Of course they do.
todayilearned	This ^^ I work in an International Department at a college and China isn't alone, we have a handful of countries that send students who are used to cheating and bribing. We've had teachers receive VAST sums of money from parents because a student was failing their class or receiving only an average grade. They are bribing but they don't see anything wrong with it because that's just how their culture works, in fact we've received complaints about teachers because they refused to accept bribes. Obviously teachers can lose their jobs if they accept those bribes and if a student is caught cheating they are punished like any other student (at least at the school I work at). We have a couple thousand international students every year and all of them have to attend what is basically a "Canadian culture" seminar where they're informed about expectations and rules that may differ from their home country. They also have 12-15 guidance counselor's from their region available to them to help bridge that cultural gap. We do what we can, but people choose to ignore those rules cause that's what they're used to or they just don't think it's a big deal.
todayilearned	I used to work in a lab with a lot of international post docs. One Chinese guy was chugging along. He got his PhD in Canada, and loved having two children and didn’t want to ever go back to China. The other one left her husband and her 10 year old daughter to live in the states. My boss and the other Post Docs complained about her work. She could barely do the job, and her experiments were so poorly designed and ran. My boss ended up having an affair with her. It was so bizarre. But, yeah. The story was, she was born on a small farm, and took a test that said she had aptitude. She was pushed through to her PhD in a field she didn’t get to choose. The government picked it for her. And the assumption was her supervisors did her work, and put her name on it. They wanted the connections to our prestigious lab. She wasn’t useful at all, and we were paying her with federal funding and an H1-B visa. I love the visa program. So many amazing scientists from around the world worked with us, including people from Cuba. But the Chinese in our lab? It was a struggle catching them up to the standards required to publish. Didn’t work out well. Cheating sucks.
todayilearned	I had a similar situation at another college. In-class, online exam - so already, it's a joke (we have Google). But if that wasn't enough. the international students just went on Facebook and sent each other the answers - while just talking to each other anyways. This was all obvious, but the professor didn't even bother checking people's screens. Schools make money off keeping international students happy. That's the business model.
todayilearned	I've met some absolutely wonderful and smart Indian PhD students. But then, I've also met THE ONE. He ruined the whole country for me, I am super suspicious of any new recruit. Once this guy left the lab, we found his linkedn page and half his updated cv was fake. Fuck, he was saying he was an expert in using some data that I personally forbade to give him access to. I've been told by a colleague that, when you are interviewing an Indian PhD/post-doc and everything sounds wonderful, to bring to the interview one of the "good" Indians. They'll see though their bullshitting in seconds. I suppose it has something to do with countries with such a big population. People have to cheat/bullshit their path to the top. PS: I am not trying to be racist. I'm great friends with a few of them. This is a rant of their education system that allows bullshitters to rise to the top.
todayilearned	It's actually very easy to cheat. You don't always have to bring cheat sheats or discuss answers; sometimes the test questions are recycled from the years' past and students just kind of memorise the answers; this is why the frat kids at college always seem to have high GPAs relative to their effort. If the professor doesn't want cheating then the test methods should be changed in a way that takes away the benefit of cheating. Students can be made to perform case studies, open book; it's impossible to cheat because it would be very obvious.
todayilearned	Yup, had an old roommate that transfered over to university of Madison Wisconsin for engineering by hiring some guy in China forge his transcript and everything for him. He didn't know the school existed until he got accepted. At the time he was learning English at the international center, studying esl. Kid was dumb as shit, even paid me to write his papers for him. Never goes to class. Good times those guys are pro.
todayilearned	I was mainly just giving you shit for putting anecdotal observations in seemingly-scientific terms—sorry for being a jackass, just a pet peeve. That is actually really interesting, and I wonder how it would compare to Korean Americans, students in Korea, etc. Also interesting that cheating seems to be prevalent in Korean & Chinese academic culture, but I don't think the same is true for Japan. I also wonder how much of this is based on our own model-minority ideas influencing what we perceive. Would love to read more about this from someone who studies it professionally.
todayilearned	As a BA in History, I passed as a IT guy for almost 4 months hahahaha. Server stuff, help calls, setting up new pc's, and pushing out updates was my main job. Not too bad for someone who never took a class past typing in middle school. I didn't use excel until I was 22. Granted I went in to the job letting them know I had zero knowledge beyond basic how to stuff of IT.
todayilearned	It's not always that easy. Depending on your school and your graduate program, you might be the one they punish if you try to fuck over the international students, regardless if you're in the right. I'm about to get a paper published that will have a Chinese student's name on it, despite the fact that they didn't do anything with the paper. But they're rich as fuck and are able to pay my university full price for international tuition and donate money specifically to our graduate program. It's bullshit politics. But the school and program benefit more from these students getting a free degree and publications than by being honest. It's my understanding that academic publications in China are an extremely rigged system and it's more about connections than the quality of your work. Getting your name out there with a publication from a school and academic conference in the West will definitely increase your legitimacy value and possibility of future publications. It's a shitty system, but it is what it is.
todayilearned	During my anatomy and physiology classes in college there were 8 Chinese students in the back that just whipped out notes and shared answers for every test. This was reported to the instructors and the school administration, but somehow no one ever did anything about it. Probably because they pay 5x the tuition of everyone else. It is enough to make me suspicious of the qualifications of every Chinese professional in education-intensive fields.
todayilearned	There is a definite line here. Most people have glimpsed over at a classmate's test, or hidden some equations under a sleeve. This type of stuff 95% of students do. Blatant, audible collusion is a world apart. I would NEVER have turned in classmates who did the former. On the other hand, if I worked my ass off while a group of foreign students openly discussed the test behind me, within ear shot of a professor, I would be livid. I might even call them out on the spot. Literal protests in the street in support of cheating are a far cry from this type of "innocent" cheating.
todayilearned	That’s not how being a “team player” works. Every company has dead weight. Sometimes it’s people who have been there for decades, sometimes it’s your own boss who is charging time to your project. Or if you’re an intern you can’t exactly complain that your FTE partner made you do all the work. You just don’t have the standing. I’m not saying “shut up and stick it out doing all the work”; but the opposite of that - “just go tell your boss” doesn’t work either. In fact, this is such a common situation it’s often asked in the interviews - how do you deal with an underperforming team mate. There is no real absolutely right or wrong answer, which will depend on team culture and management. But knowing techniques and having experience of having managed such a situation is definitely a strength in an interview candidate. A typical answers are usually along the lines of “I asked them to do easy parts and then tried to not work with them in the future” or “I bribed them into working with pizza”.
todayilearned	I definitely could have made it more clear that was an anecdote and the math was literal, not statistic based. Thanks for touching back constructively! It actually stems from a peeve of mine from that time, I only got stuck in that class cause I didn't "test out" to calc, in part due to my own laziness and in part to getting the first final for calc instead of the second final of pre calc for the test. Stopped my academic math career for the 6th time, I was pissed when the class was not only easy but I had to deal with "noise" during tests (made test taking hard with ADD)
todayilearned	CS major here. It fizzled out after the first year or so, but all of the chinese students would sit in a clique so they could share answers on every test/quiz. Several professors stated that they knew who was doing it, so rather than call them out en masse - they just failed them or had them removed before the final. We also get annual "This is what cheating looks like here, and why its not allowed no matter where you originate from" type lectures at the start of fall terms.
todayilearned	This entire thread is a circlejerk of stupid tbh. Everyone is crying about stupid tests, the things are supposed to be used to just judge how much you know and what the teacher failed to teach you, not to actually matter. So rather than cry about school reform where teachers actually teach you the information, people cry about others doing the smarter thing that still helps you learn just as well depending on the kind of person you are. I cheated my entire way through high school almost and I spent half my math, and other classes, teaching the material to the rest of the class when the teacher couldn't get the concept across to them. I hate how retarded our school system is and how we put so much value on something as counterproductive as a test and what bothers me more, is that there are this many people defending the tests by crying about cheaters rather than complaining that the teacher/system failed the students that felt they needed to cheat to pass the test.
todayilearned	The Asian immigrant students worked their butts off despite their lack of money and limited language abilities. The international students who paid for the out of state tuition with cash and then bought a house near school because they didn't feel like living in the dorms did not have the same work ethic. I've had some simply put zero work into a group project and the rest attempt to pay me to do the work for them.
todayilearned	Man, if I had a dollar for every time I cheated I could fund my own private school. Until 14 (when we started taking our first exams) I used to routinely cheat on any test and then act all proud when I get a high score. The only lessons I remember doing the work for was chemistry and French. It's a little hard to cheat on French when you still couldn't talk to an 8 year old French girl if you tried to save your life. That was the most work I ever did to fail. History rings some bells but my second year I just blew it off because I was so close to an A in my first year.
todayilearned	What's worse in biotech is if you're in a GMP lab. A lot of them don't care and will fudge data so they don't have to retest or deviate from SOPs, and these are patient samples I'm talking about. Fortunately when that comes to light the hammer comes down more often in a QC/manufacturing environment. Unfortunately I've seen it enough that it does seems to be a problem with specifically Chinese scientists. Others certainly can and do bad stuff but it does seem to come with the culture.
todayilearned	It was actually something our Honor Council brought up in school. The best students in China are also usually the best cheaters because it’s one of the only way to get ahead. iirc the answer was “while it’s accepted in other cultures, it isn’t accepted in our academic setting” and they said that if you cheat, you’ll be expelled just like any other student would be. I think that’s fair. If they’re really smart, they should still be able to succeed anyway.
todayilearned	>Chinese people want to believe they're the best in the world. Chinese people want to believe they're the best in the world. Best learning is in China, of course. Best learning is in China, of course. Best learning is in China, of course. Is that why China's own university ranking system places American and European universities above Chinese universities? If this is true, why was Xi's own daughter educated in the United States? > Heck, today is Teachers Day in China. I bet your country doesn't even have a teachers day. Haha. We've had one longer than China (1985), and have spent a few of semesters conducting research in China, I can confirm that nothing actually happens on Teachers Day in China. > You think stories from the US don't make it to China? Of course they do. You think they don't have an effect on what Chinese think of US universities? Of course they do. So I guess they must like what they hear about American Universities, because the number of Chinese applicants continues to rise? Take your sorry wumao ass back to Sina where it belongs. edit: Just of curiosity, how much do you get per Reddit post?
todayilearned	They also cheat at their TOEFL which is an English proficiency test. For example, at my school, it is required to pass the TOEFL with a score of 90 (basically showing fluency and a good grasp of English) in order to be admitted. However, there are still some Chinese kids who get in and can barely speak the language, let alone write in it. From what I've heard, it's because in China you can either pay to have it done or just cheat your way through it.
todayilearned	Don’t even get me started. I carried my group for my masters of accounting course of 2 Asian women along with myself to an A. They knew not even basic accounting concepts, and it was a 30 minute power point presentation we had to put together, 95% done by me. I hope you went the same route as me and let the teacher know how much work was done by each individual. This also reminded me that these two women had ALL the answers to the quizzes/homework from a random online website. We had to present the questions to the class, and once a group of Asian student in the class had the exact same wording and answer as the teacher. When he called them out on it, they acted like they could barely speak English. Disappointing.
todayilearned	Academics face competing pressures here. The bosses love these international students because they pay outrageously inflated tuition, and often pay multiple years up-front and in cash, and are basically easy money for the university. It's especially helpful at lower-ranked universities that can't attract top-flight graduate students or healthy grants, so they chase these tuition dollars instead. At the same time, professors are expected to be "culturally sensitive" to the fact that cheating is common in Asian schools. My colleagues and I have been told more than once to pause before reporting an international student for plagiarism, because they honestly might not know any better. Also, if an international student loses their university admission, they have to go back home in shame, and their life is basically over. No professor wants to be the one who pushes that button. So what do we do? We watch our international students like hawks and report plagiarism and cheating whenever we see it.
todayilearned	My mother taught at a Chinese-owned international high school. (in the USA) The Chinese students were blatant, notorious cheaters who saw absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. Eventually the school closed, because the Chinese people running it decided to stop paying the teachers halfway through the school year - who basically ended up teaching the last 4 months for free, getting no paycheck at all. Crooks all the way down.
todayilearned	I did PhD and Chinese students were the worst. They were not the only cheaters, but they were by far the highest percentage of cheater. Talking to them, they said cheating was so prevalent on chine that people would literally steal a paper, repackage it (with the same exact figures) and publish it in another journal. Other students in my office found repackaged papers of my advisors. Interestingly, the Russians and Koreans were the most academically honest in my particular group.
todayilearned	A good manager knows that sometimes they are handed a bad situation and need to make it work. Managers are not owners and frequently have little say in who is on the team. A good manager does pair his weakest with his strongest. If you have 2 great guys and 2 idiots, you can put the weak with the strong and have a good product across the board, or pair the strong together and weak together and 50% will excel, 50% will fail, and you'll waste all your money on QC.
todayilearned	What concepts are we talking about? I've usually found slight concept misunderstandings when it comes to social issues due to how much our law's vary, mainly with Eastern Europeans as we get more Eastern Europeans here in the UK than most other nationalities. The only concept I've found one of them couldn't grasp is when we repeatedly had to explain to a girl on our course how TV shows and films are widely filmed with a single camera, on our TV and Film degree lol. However, I'm pretty sure that was because she was focusing on the word "single" because she wouldn't take it that Dexter was a single camera show because "what if that single camera breaks?" I had a native speaker buddy have the same question so I'm sure a lot of people could easily make that mistake. If I hadn't learned it at my previous college, then I probably would have been surprised hearing that in university.
todayilearned	That might explain some experiences I had tbh. We had a Chinese student transfer to my small private school from Carnegie Mellon University. He was Comp Sci (which CMU is a top tier school for) there, but he was in our IT program. Odd. I just figured he was a smart guy who wanted an easier school. He shows up for a few classes, then after the first test is never seen again. Allegedly, he cheated on the first exam and kicked from the class. It makes me wonder if he cheated at CMU too. That same semester, a different chinese student was in my group for a semester long project. Same thing. He was there the first 5 weeks, but after the first test he was gone. I later learned he was expelled for cheating.
todayilearned	I have noticed that as well international students will make up sub 30% of the schools population but make up a good 2/3rds of those getting caught cheating. A good half of them work just as hard and don't cheat but I internally groan whenever I have one on a group project because the other half are at best shitty group mates because they either A. don't understand the material and frequently should not have been allowed in the class because they didn't understand the previous class this one was based on B. are lazy assholes or C. Cheat their asses off plagiarism ahoy.
todayilearned	Yes, many cultures expect it. An Indian colleague and I were in a management course together. One of the obvious (to me) bullet points on managing people was "if you do not tell the truth, people will not trust you." My colleague was floored by this. He said in his culture it is always assumed that the other person is lying and you just work from there. I mean, that's one way to do it, I guess.
todayilearned	Bad according to whom though? They just have a different approach to it is all. They still have some very brilliant minds who all cheated in school as well. It is different than how we so things. And I do not like it. But I'm not gonna fault them if that's the way things are done in their country as long as it's not hurting anyone. The disagreement arises when they compete with us. The playing field needs to be level. And when they cheat it clearly is not.
todayilearned	I had a similar experience. My junior year of college I had a professor who was widely known for being tough, but you learned so much from him. My schools CS program had a HUGE number of Chinese foreign exchange students that all worked in groups to basically cheat on every exam and project. This class was at like 7am, and the professor required us all to buy clickers at the begining of the semester to answer questions during recitation for participation points. No roll call. Just these clickers. Eventually the 15 something exchange students in this class dwindled to like 2 by mid semester, as one kid would come to class and use all their clickers to get his friends points. This is about a day or so after late add/drop ends, so none of these students could leave the class or pick up another session. And this required class was only offered in the fall. Professor asks question that requires clickers, and comments that he received many more answers than people in the room. Says "Ok roll call time, if you answered but aren't in the room, you fail". I think he failed like 13 of those exchange stufents that day.
todayilearned	Well, hopefully not entirely unstoppable... we thought the same of Russia and America multiple times but we're all still here. Plus they aren't totally self sufficient so could just be sanctioned to hell if they get too uppity. This would however require the world 'joining forces' so to speak. Still if it's that or accept Chinese rule universally, it's an option. Probably a bit better than nukes (especially as I doubt China would have many qualms about firing back...) ...it's a great shame my country (the UK) are eyeing them up as a country to get in bed with since we're apparently so hell bent on rage quitting the EU like a pack of morons...
todayilearned	My school did have classes for people who were worse off at English, but I'm not sure if they were precursors or if they were taught at the same time as the other classes. I went to an art school, so your art skill was what was really being tested. This is obviously why people got a free pass on their English, but it was difficult for the other students. I was consistently embarrassed because I had to ask a student to repeat themselves 10x before I gave up. I felt like an asshole, but I just couldn't understand through the accent and machinery being used in the background. On top of that it's simply not safe if the students can't understand the safety rules/requirements around high powered machinery. My school was very accommodating to learning disabilities. I was paid 9$/hr by my school to go to my Art History class because I took (elaborate) notes for another student.

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