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todayilearned	>Is that why China's own university ranking system places American and European universities above Chinese universities? You're talking about the past, I'm talking about the future. Sad, I expect more comprehension from educated people, and less idiotic rah-rah patriotism. >and have spent a few of semesters conducting research in China, I can confirm that nothing actually happens on Teachers Day in China. Ah, OK. So you weren't teaching, and you didn't see anything on teachers day. Got it. >Take your sorry wumao ass back to Sina where it belongs. Does it feel good to say racist things like this?
todayilearned	I had a similar problem when I used to manage an agricultural lab. We had two Indian applicants who had their “masters” from India. They made it passed the interview and it came to me to train them to perform their duties in the lab. After weeks of trying to get them to understand the basics of calibrating the instruments then running the assay upper management told me to let them work without direct supervision. After they somehow managed to mess up thousands of dollars worth of samples I had to go to HR to recommend that they be put in a different position or let go.
todayilearned	I had a number of Korean and Chinese students in my high school. One thing that really stuck out to me was that the Korean students were far more socially integrated with the rest of the (predominantly white) student body than the Chinese students were. They asked questions in class regularly and generally appeared to fit in a lot better, while the Chinese students seemed to interact almost exclusively with each other. Some would just sit in the back of the classroom and play games on their laptops and then ask for notes or answers later.
todayilearned	Election compromises, buying telecoms, infusion, international lobbying. There's also information manipulation both in search functions, the education system most notably in Universities and now in movies and other projects as developments or projects will cater to the Chinese government by altering a premise, or basis even against ethical standards for access to the Chinese market. Then you have the standard IP theft, counter-intelligence etc. The Chinese goal is attrition and while I can't say the same about other countries, the US while late at dealing with these issues, it may have come at just the right time. I work as crypto-analytics in DIA and NCSC-contractual and this is a very real thing for us. It's far larger than NKorea, Russia, Brazil and Iran. While my above descriptions were only vaguely stated, it details among those and other reasons why China is the single largest threat to the world, international stability and to our climate. Please remember this over the next 15 years.
todayilearned	Tldr: power went out during high school final which was a group project. Had to have everyone in the group come back after school to present (need everyone there for the machine to function). Only me and one other person showed up. We both got 90s on our final that we couldn't present, and the rest of our group got 0s. Not college, but when I was in high school, I had an engineering class and the final was a group project where we designed and built an automated soda can crushing and ejecting machine. Each of us had specialized in different things throughout the trimester and we needed everyone to work together for any of us to get a good grade on the final. Which actually went surprisingly well. Our machine worked as intended. But on the last day of school, during the final for that class, we lost power. And I guess we didn't have backup generators. And it's kind of hard to show our machine without power. So the teacher told us that as much as it sucked, we had to come back after school that day to get graded. After school, everyone in the class that needed to show up did. Except for my group. It was just me and one other person. We needed everyone for it to work. So we couldn't present. My teacher gave me and the one other person in my group that showed up a 90 on the final. Everyone in my group that didn't show up got a 0. Feltgoodman
todayilearned	Professors can care very much about their subject matter and about teaching and still have reason to not report cheating. At some schools, in my humble experience, the process of reporting cheating is designed to promote faculty attrition: faculty do the leg work (emails, paperwork, on-the-record meetings with administration), are not consistently supported by administration (especially if you are contingent faculty), students are not consistently punished, and professors run the risk of retaliation. Let me say a little more about the issue of retaliation. This can happen in class, in office hours, or online. It can be carried out by the student, by an associate of the student, or by a group. More to the point, however, let me state that a student crying in your presence during office hours, insulting you during class, or threatening you in some form is quite taxing in the midst of what is likely a long enough day as it is. All a student has to do to completely turn the tables is to accuse you of racism or sexual harassment. Then either you suffer enough alienation to want to end your career or your career is ended for you. The most egregious example, in my experience, of a student getting away with cheating is as follows: a star student in one of the college programs submitted a term paper to my course which was also submitted as a term paper for another course that same semester. All of this was confirmed. This is a big deal. I won't talk about the legwork of communicating with the student (just to make sure this wasn't a simple mistake), with other faculty in my department, and the meetings I had to attend. The dean, who was to oversee this matter, chuckled with me once we had all the evidence collected as well the full explanation from the student, since it was such an obvious case of cheating. In the end: zero penalty for the student, who was granted additional time to write a paper. You know who lost face with the administration? I did. This private college, where I taught for several years, is basically a diploma mill for the wealthy and, I think it is safe to presume, will not likely change. Once this happened, I knew my place. I taught passionately. But I stopped even looking for plagiarism or other forms of cheating.
todayilearned	It was engineering, so in the real world we are frequently forced to work alongside people with no concept of what we are trying to accomplish. Those same people also frequently ask for the impossible. So, it was good training for what this role entails. Luckily in order to do anything of importance, you need to be licensed, and that means showing competence and passing tests. Most work was individual, group work was not the norm.
todayilearned	After the final presentation, yes. Unfortunately there wasn't enough time after catching their plagiarism (literally the night before the due date), and I couldn't be sure that the prof wasn't going to be a hard-nose "well this was a group project and the whole group failed" type so I had to rewrite the whole thing to be safe. After the live presentation (where they read off their plagiarized texts word-for-word instead of speaking conversationally and using the powerpoint slides we'd emergency-crafted) she saw the duress we were under and at least gave the two Americans A's. I don't know what the Chinese kids got.
todayilearned	I was writing & selling lower level essays back in college as extra cash. Almost all my clients were rich Chinese kids that must have cheated their way through their ACTs and SATs because they went to schools like Yale, Purdue, Columbia, and still would send super broken English messages to me. I got a friend to translate my entire profile and instructions and requirements to Chinese and then I started getting Chinese messages with more detail; they’d tell me how rich their parents were and that they’d pay me extra to get it done tonight, or that they’d send me all their friends if I did it for free. My Taiwanese friend that did all the translating started getting a cut for all the translating going on too. We considered launching our own website but then a lot of sites including the Silk Road started getting shut down so we just took down my stuff and quit.
todayilearned	I'm surprised it's not higher. My freshman class at college was something like 15% international students, and the vast majority were from China. I'd say more than half of the Chinese students I met/had classes with could not understand English at all. There were two girls that I had the same class with for the entire first year. One of the girls legitimately never spoke English, and her friend (whose English was decent but definitely not fluent) just translated everything for her for the whole year. They were all supposed to have passed a English proficiency tests before even being accepted. The year after I graduated, there was an even larger amount of international students, specifically from China too. I had friends who worked at other colleges in that city, and all of them had issues with the Chinese international students not knowing English, and how frustrating it was for everyone involved at the college.
todayilearned	Even if I don't agree with the post you responded to, I wouldn't say that the author sucks at writing. The post isn't perfect, but it's far better than most on this site. You come off as bitter that someone got away with cheating; I assume you worked hard in high school and are personally insulted and embittered by the poster's admission. &#x200B; I didn't cheat \or\ work hard in high school and I still got great grades, so I beat both of you! :3 ...Not that high school grades mean much anyway. :'(
todayilearned	I forget which Ivy League university's art school it was(might've been Penn or Yale), but I remember an article from awhile back where there was this major change in the registration process that basically if you were applying to the art school and got in you were more or less locked into it because otherwise it was a massive amount of work that you had to do to switch majors instead of the normal affair at any other school, pretty much like applying to the university all over again. Basically they had an obscene amount of wealthy international students who basically would scour the internet looking at artists' work and more or less say, "hey I'll give you x amount of money to buy your portfolio, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours we all keep this on the DL" and then they would get into the art school with this absolutely stupid talented art portfolio and immediately change majors to avoid any academic scrutiny and be on their way doing something else.
todayilearned	Yes. Not in a racist way, but in a “why waste our time dealing with this shit again?”. Our organization is extremely multi-cultural (I am one of two native English speakers), so I assure you it’s just business. Unfortunate and unfair, yes, but so it goes. If it makes you feel any better, Americans are passed over for academic postdocs compared to our American-trained Chinese counterparts for a variety of reasons. Edit: not because of their nationality, but rather if their PhD is from China
todayilearned	The less kids to teach is really only true for the undergrad level. At the grad level most classes are far from being full anyway, and teachers aren't paid more for class size, so it doesn't cost theuniversity more to have them there. In fact, it's probably much cheaper because then they can use their grad students as TAs for super low wages rather than hiring someone for actual wages to teach.
todayilearned	> sometimes the test questions are recycled from the years' past and students just kind of memorise the answers; this is why the frat kids at college always seem to have high GPAs relative to their effort. Oh, I see. Lol Had a finance class in my last semester, we had an online test and every single one of us looked up the answer online because everyone was getting burned out from too much information. Professor most likely knew but she didn't give a damn. I think it's also the same deal with sites that give you answers to your homework. Works only if your tests are multiple choices, though.
todayilearned	that shit is infuriating. My wife while getting her masters had a group like this. 2 people in the group were bums. so her and another girl were the only one working on this quite lengthy project. I eventually got my very shy and timid wife to report it to her professor who basically came back with figure it out yourselves you can't remove people or get new teams. My wife who is like 8 months pregnant, working full time and going to school full time has to pick up slack for these bums so they can get their masters degrees? FUCK THAT. I went straight to the dean. He tried to blow it off too. I basically in the end threatened him telling him everyone will know this is how these classes work and you condone it. They ended up being removed from the class. Also other side rant: I have an engineering degree. Wife has her masters. School is a fucking joke. If we didn't need these little slips of papers to get us better jobs I wouldn't have gone. School has become so stupidly easy that any moron can go get a degree with minimal effort. And this was at D1 college's.
todayilearned	It's interesting. There's a bit of an irony to it as well. I remember proctoring for a class of 200 students. One of my coworkers (this indian grad student) was real good at catching cheaters. One day, a bunch of us grads were grading papers in a conference room, and he was telling us about how reading the body language was key. He then admitted that he used to cheat when he was in India and how a bunch of his friends would do the same; and in that very room, a pandora's box opened and some of the other foreign grad students in the room just flat out admitted to cheating when they were undergrads. They said they don't cheat anymore now that they are in the US, but it was still disheartening. Of course, no professors were in the room when we had the discussion. Nobody thought that the discussion would leave the room, and it didn't. As naive as it sounds, we all sorta trust each other for it.
todayilearned	I'd give it a decade, two at most. China is increasingly getting involved in academics and industry outside their borders and the rest of the world is catching on. China all but officially condones this behavior. India is a different kind of problem. Where China is going it almost intentionally, India just has no way to regulate their people. India's government doesn't control academics and industry and can only do so much to reign in all the fraudulent organizations that keep popping up, taking advantage of both the naive and malicious.
todayilearned	I wonder if that comes from having a a lot of social classes, wich are at the same time difficult to "leave behind". I am no Marxist, but one once told me that they believed that there couldn't be any real "dialogue" between classes. Where I live we have a very undistributed wealth, and it is true that many of the "wealthy", when raised in a bubble, are hard to read and trust, cause many times you don't know if they are telling the truth or subtly fucking with you. But they understand each other just fine.
todayilearned	My wife is Chinese and we know a few kids who cheated on their TOEFL exam, GRE, and fudged a bunch of things in their admissions materials to get into grad school. The thing is that this behavior, coupled with cheating in courses, might get them a degree but does not serve them well in the long run. They bomb in internships, don't interview well, and don't land jobs. At least not in the US. However, I would also add that many, if not most of the top students, faculty, researchers, and private sector employees in my field (math/statistics) are Chinese. Most Chinese students bust their ass studying and do really well by it. Americans have their cultural problems too (violence, willful ignorance, gluttony) so it's not really useful to act self righteous.
todayilearned	back in the day, probably close to 100% of one my classes cheated. The final just "got out" and made its way around. The professor was so proud we did so well. It's one of the reasons why I don't play this game of "look at those cheaters!!!" And why I realize the punishments are often non-existent. Because you can google some of those professors' papers from back in the day and find some missing citations. I honestly think maybe we've gone way too far for some kid up at 3am trying to finish his stupid paper that he doesn't give a damn about for a class that he doesn't give a damn about. And some professors (whose papers you can google and maybe find a couple missing citations and destroy them) understand that.
todayilearned	Ever worked in a lab with Chinese post-"docs"? These guys supposedly had PhDs, but were dumber than most summer undergrads. Piss-poor experimental design. They couldn't wipe their own asses if they weren't spoon-fed a detailed protocol how to do it, and even then it would be 50/50 that they'd actually follow it without taking shortcuts. 1 in 10 is actually worth his/her salt. They pollute the entire research infrastructure, and drive down wages for American scientists to boot. They're exempt from H1B visa quotas since they work on public grants, so there's no stopping the flood.
todayilearned	Basically it's just a matter of keeping a record of your conversations on facebook and the like with you going 'we need you to do this for this project,' their agreement, and when they don't do it just submitting it into the unit coordinator. With enough proof they basically have to pursue it. Have had it happen to others in my group specifically at least 3 times, none of them were foreign students though so no guilt over deporting someone.
todayilearned	When I was in high school, the girl who sat next to me in one of my classes was Chinese and she would regularly cheat on tests. I tried to ignore it because I just didn't want to be the class "snitch". One day, she got caught by the instructor, and threw a huuuge fit. She just got really violent, even attempting to throw her chair at the instructor. Security was eventually called in, and even they had trouble hauling her off. Rumor has it she didn't get in any trouble for whatever reason, and she came back to class the next day. Continued cheating throughout the year.
todayilearned	That makes sense. It's much more important to train, say, engineers in how to navigate and be effective cogs in a Kafkaesque nightmare of a failed corporate culture than it is to train them to build bridges that won't collapse. You know, that being said, it does occur to me that maybe we wouldn't run into coworkers who were used to being carried by other people, and thus had no idea what they were doing because they'd never actually learned their profession, if maybe students weren't expected to carry other students, and people who couldn't pull their weight just didn't get a degree.
todayilearned	The two Chinese students in my masters program (there were a total of 3 of us) had their PhD friends do all their assignments and write their papers. They officially did nothing during the degree. They never went to classes and asked me to get the homework for them, which I did not. They actually spent most of their time running businesses back home. I also have a feeling they cheated on their English exam to get into the university because one of them flat out could not English.
todayilearned	Exactly what happened at my university. They paid 3x what local students paid so they let them get away with pretty much anything. One international girl student once told me that (from her country at least) male international sutdents often came to buy an easy diploma with their family's money so they would simply sit down and do pretty much nothing, money did the talking. Girls however needed to justify the money spent on them so she was working her ass off to get As everywhere. &#x200B; Regarding cheating, my university got around the no cheating policy by changing to a cultural cheating policy. When caught cheating, insted of getting a zero, the department would now look into the reasons of the cheating and decide to allow an alternative action insted of a zero. It was utter bullshit.
todayilearned	There are many regions in the world that have shitty leaders who do what middle eastern dictators did that the US leaves alone. We don't annexx regions because global imperialism is frowned upon, but we are notorious in the recent past for starting wars in regions that are oil rich under the pretense of liberating people etc., and then installing our own leaders who will make favorable deals with the US. This often leads to more instability in the region, and worse lives for the people there. We aren't literally invading countries and taking oil. We are using out position as a global superpower to "liberate" people and "take down" bad governments for our own personal gain.
todayilearned	When you read the results of the most known student assessment - OECD's PISA study - you'll notice that there is no China. There are USA, Russia, Germany, UK, Japan, South Korea, and then there is "China (Shanghai)". The assessment is only distributed in a select number of schools in the best performing city. The cheating is institutionalised, but in the media (esoecially Chinese) the fact that it's just Shanghai is simply omitted. Before you get your hopes up: Singapore, Japan, Korea, they are all just good.
todayilearned	>You're talking about the past, I'm talking about the future. 是吗？那你的英文水平有待提高。你不是说了 “Best learning in China, of course"吗？ "Is" 才是 "to be"的一般现在时态形式。 > Sad, I expect more comprehension from educated people, and less idiotic rah-rah patriotism. Is that so? Then why would you champion China's university system? It requires all incoming freshmen to partake in military exercises in order to "defend the motherland," and all students to take vapid courses on "political theory" that are little more than transparent propaganda celebrate the "nation" and the "party." Sad indeed. > Ah, OK. So you weren't teaching, and you didn't see anything on teachers day. Got it. I was on fellowships with Chinese Universities. Got that? >Does it feel good to say racist things like this? Wumao isn't a racial slur, and Sina is one of the websites where they are most active. Keep digging, but be careful, you might end up sounding like one of those SJW's you spent your last comments trashing.
todayilearned	There is the key difference though. You know HOW to learn. That is a big goddamn deal. My experience with a lot of the Chinese is they simply don't have the fundamental process of adaptation, critical thinking, any of that. It is one of the reasons I have been railing about standardized testing. That is what it creates. Someone that only learns that "this is the answer the book says." That is how they are taught, memorization.
todayilearned	There's a wide variety on this spectrum mate. I've seen, what we call in the biz, "dog fuckers" kept on schedule for years and years and still not get fired. Some industries are so desperate for anybody that even the most blatant dog fucker will just get a "talk" every once in a while. Just showing up on time and doing something is better than nobody at all I guess. Christ. (Retail btw)
todayilearned	> So what do we do? We communicate that cheating in any form is not ok, and the best way to do that is with proper procedure. Maybe not automatically send them home, but have a serious and frank conversation with the professor, the student, and the director/dean/other administrator. Communicate very frankly that their grades are going to be affected by their choice already and their ability to stay at the university will be affected if they continue. You need to be consistent with rules - consistent across time, consistent across cultures, and consistent across industries. If you aren't consistent, then you are favoring one group over the other unfairly, and the whole point of the educational system that the school uses loses any serious claim that they educate people effectively.
todayilearned	At work so i can't gather sources right now, but check out resources on American Imperialism, and more recently about American intervention in the middle east/northern africa. The "American Oil" thing is moreabout the middle east wars recently from the late 80s up til now, but the US has had a long history in places like South America in the late 90s and during the cold war and others such as the Phillipines that many outside the US consider very bad. Outside the US, we are actuallyvery often considered bullies, it's just in the US we live in a bubble of dangerous nationalism and patriotism that hides what we really do to many other nations of the world. I would start with wikipedia for a general idea (AmericanImperialism, wars in the middle east, American cold war interventionalism) and move forward from there.
todayilearned	Had the same experience down here in Australia. I actually arranged to work with a local housing non profit for our group work (business strategy review), one of the students decided that telling the CEO and chairman of the board that selling "their land" (not their land) and kicking their clients onto the street (while point was to get them off the street) was the best way for the company to make a profit (it was a non profit charity). I facepalmed so hard that we shut down the meeting early.
todayilearned	Had the same experience down here in Australia. I actually arranged to work with a local housing non profit for our group work (business strategy review), one of the students decided that telling the CEO and chairman of the board that selling "their land" (not their land) and kicking their clients onto the street (while point was to get them off the street) was the best way for the company to make a profit (it was a non profit charity). I facepalmed so hard that we shut down the meeting early.
todayilearned	Westerner who went to school in China here, can't say for outside of China, but inside China they barely bat an eye. I received one year of introductory Chinese before I started my major proper, was conversational at best, got to my first few classes and realised I was never going to be able to follow along. Predictably, at the end of the first year I was threatened with being locked out of the program at the end of the first year. For them the practice seems to be to kick you off the deep end, either you learn to swim or you drown.
todayilearned	> This often leads to more instability in the region, and worse lives for the people there. Hussein was truly shitty though. I admit that a lot of stuff that America do is not kosher, not to mention the lower level war crime that happens. But unless you are a libertarian, which you probably is not, I don't think do no harm is the right standard here. And America comparatively to other "empires" of great powers in the past is probably better. I don't think there's a neat, near-definitive narrative here.
todayilearned	I live in the Bay Area of California. A whole lot of Asians here. I have learned to meet before I judge. Too many great people I have met could get passed up if I simply said, "Another Chin, fuck that." I know some folks at Kaiser Permanente that don't want Asian doctors. My cardiologist (who I absolutely love) is Asian. I went with him not knowing who he was. I'd have missed out on a great goddamn doctor and man had I have said "Nope. Asian dude." My physician, Dr. H, amazing doctor, he has helped save my life. While there are some that will look at your name and maybe pass you up, there are a lot like me that will simply say, "Let's see who this dude is first." I'd have missed a lot of great people if I thought that small. Don't let that thought fuck with you too much. Because generally speaking, the people that would avoid your name, you'd want to avoid anyway.
todayilearned	Well, yeah, screening based on school quality should be fine, but saying > we end up passing over Chinese candidates these days because we’ve been burned in the past. It’s a problem with Indian-trained folks too is a different matter. And ruling out all Chinese schools could be viewed as a proxy for national origin. Are they all of too low quality? It's worth being careful about your actual and stated reasons on this sort of thing.
todayilearned	I taught intro chem lab for stupid (read non STEM) kids at a university during my masters in chemistry. Grading academic papers was a chore for non native english speakers because I couldnt even grade objectively on their knowledge of the topic for their goddamn writing. I had to start going to the coordinator and asking what to do about papers that were unintelligible gibberish. Eventually I was ordered to start issuing F's. Which didnt necessarily mean a full fail as the labs were weighted mostly just for attendance and handing things in. (50% for showing up, and 50% credit for any assignment that at least was turned in with work done.)
todayilearned	A friend of mine teaches college courses with an aviation subject matter. She had no idea that the issue was cultural until I brought it up taking about a video game I play. She immediately chimed in about catching her Chinese (Nationally) students cheating and how it was a huge problem... You can't cheat in aviation. If you don't know your shit you could die or worse, you could kill other people. So, Chinese students coming to the US with the mindset that they can cheat is a big problem... For them...
todayilearned	At my work, we recently let go an Indian gentleman. His resume and LinkedIn are amazing. His skills to do even the simplest tasks were abysmal. On paper he had a masters degree, but we were confounded how he was able to get through schooling, but was utterly helpless when it came to his ability to even show the slightest understanding of the systems he was supposed to maintain. Safety incidents? Yes. Ability to follow procedures? Not really. Critical thinking skills? Zero. Can remember instructions given? Generally no. At least get some work done? Minimal at best. Response when tasked with explaining the lack of work? Blamed others around him every time. It took my work over two years to give him the boot. When cheaters cheat and “fake it till you make it” is the mindset, the co-workers are the ones who suffer because we always end up having to pick up the slack.
todayilearned	I can only speak for myself and my personal experiences, and I in no way condone mistreatment or conspiracy based on race, but God damn are all the Chinese exchange students I've been partnered up with been anchors for my groups. Also one got in trouble for lying about his age. Said he was 23, he was actually 27. I don't understand the system in place or what it changed, but my department came at him with an iron fist. Hard to say this shit without sounding racist...
todayilearned	There was a cheating case at my university involving a student who literally didn't know how to speak English. After investigations it was revealed that they had an English-speaking friend they talked to who answered and asked everything for them. It was all sparked because when the student got to a test where they didn't have their friend, they couldn't understand anything and in some attempt to get part-marks they rewrote the question in the answer box. It was found the student cheated on their English proficiency tests to get in. It's honestly ridiculous the cheating done by some students just to get the piece of paper. Once it's found you don't have any of the knowledge to back it up, aren't you screwed? And even if you try to hide your incompetence your whole life, what kind of life is that?
todayilearned	A friend of mine at a school that required dorm living for the first year had a Chinese international student as a roommate. After a semester, he quit and went back to China... just left the brand new Mercedes he bought several months earlier in the spot and never came back - no fucks given. These international (especially Chinese) students bring in a lot of money because quite a lot of them are from families that are absolutely fucking loaded.
todayilearned	Same exact experience in my classes, except that they did that in literally the front row of the class right in front of the professor. I remember one exam where they were just basically talking at normal volume like they were chatting about where to get lunch, and the professor had to go over and explain to them that talking to each other during an exam wasn’t allowed and they needed to stop. They all seemed confused. The rest of us were confused about their confusion. It was a very strange experience for everyone involved.
todayilearned	Quite possibly. I mean, it sucks balls. Because there are a lot of second generation Chinese that are absolutely awesome. Some first generation too. They get saddled with a taint to their reputation. But the sad fact that I can't pass up is I have experienced it first hand, a lot. Not just a little bit. I have had no issues with folks from Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. It was never an issue. It was almost always an issue with someone directly from China. I would love for it not to be true, but people talk. My coworkers have discussed it. My Chinese-American friends have openly discussed it because they have faced the backlash that it has created. It is a real issue, and it sucks. Some might latch on to the racist aspect. They can fuck off in my book.
todayilearned	The last lab I worked in was largely staffed by students from China and at least two of them were quite open about how they cheated their TOEFL (among other things). It was a bit of culture shock to me, I suppose. I mean, they were competent enough at bench monkeying, so no big deal there. We did occasionally have trouble with them "massaging" data so it would look better in papers though, THAT was a problem.
todayilearned	I agree with the Iran, and South American regime changes in that their primary goal was securing energy supply because of the Oil Shock from OPEC sanctions, and even stuff like even engineering the electoral loss of the communists in Italy. But I think one ought to consider the stuff the USSR was pulling off wrt to Cuba, Eastern Europe, and also other countries in South America. It's not possible to make any rigorous predictions about counterfactuals in the social sciences except for very narrow and restricted questions, but I think it's a very reasonable preference for someone that identify as a liberal to err on the side of American Imperialism in an era of comparably more racism and more existential threat. I am not an social liberal, so take it however you like. I also think that both the Democrats and Republican had mostly anti-racists as their top leaders by the end of the WWII, if you look at the biography of the leaders, and even people like Barry Goldwater, who seemed to me like all purpose a genuine liberal who had a principle objection to parts of the civil rights act. They might not be anti-racist by contemporary standards and hold imperialistic views, but that's up to the inteructors.
todayilearned	To someone who casually looked at the Retraction Watch website, I think your biases are getting in the way of being diligent. [Within the top 10 cited studies to be retracted, only 1 has Chinese surnames](https://retractionwatch.com/the-retraction-watch-leaderboard/top-10-most-highly-cited-retracted-papers/). [Additionally, the "retraction leaderboard" is comprised mainly for Korean and Japanese](https://retractionwatch.com/the-retraction-watch-leaderboard/) when you look for Asian surnames. I'm wondering, if this is such a large problem with Chinese papers and authors, why do you think such disproportionately small number of them appear on the retraction leaderboard? Edit: Oh nevermind, this is just a racism circle-jerk I guess. >The more I learn about China, the less I like China. It seems they are at the center of a lot of social, economic, and environmental problems for the entire world. There is a general attitude of self-importance, and things not mattering. Good job Reddit.
todayilearned	I work in biotech, and my last lab was largely staffed by Chinese students. Nice enough people, but we had some serious issues with a few. Some were quite open and talkative about how they cheated their TOEFL, and would repeatedly get caught "massaging" data that didn't fit their hypotheses. Apparently, they just cared about getting published (which was a required part of their program) and weren't bothered in the slightest if the data was fictional so long as it got them in print.
todayilearned	While waiting for office hour one day, I overheard a former professor talking to a TA about catching cheating. He basically said that he spots 2 dozen or so people each quarter (in a 120 person class) who he's 90% sure are cheating, but it's not worth it to go after them unless he's 100% sure. It's a major hassle, and more importantly, the fallout for him if the student isn't cheating can be huge.
todayilearned	A girl at my school (Russian native) couldn't speak a full sentence in English. The school went over a test and essay she did to enter to notice that half of the pronouns were male. Basically, she paid someone to take it and that guy just copied his own only remembering to change things occasionally. I think (got this second hand from a TA) the sentence that gave it away was something like "How would your friends describe your work ethic" and hers said something like "They'd say 'he is really interested in computers and he is dedicated to finding new applications for them in the expanding world of business' because I am". she was so unfluent she didn't understand she was being kicked out and thought they were giving her another chance to write the essay. I'd say the best foreign students we have are Indian and Japanese who go around making us natives look bad but they are far and few between.
todayilearned	Don't worry about it, they're only cheating themselves. Employers around the world, and especially in China, have figured out that Chinese person having a degree doesn't necessarily mean anything. These kids are paying triple the tuition price plus bringing tons of Chinese money into your country buying their fancy cars, clothes, and nice places to live, and at the end they get their piece of paper, but it's useless to them. A Chinese guy can't show up at a business with their piece of paper from Iowa State University or whatever and just get a job with it. Employers are wise to the fact that all that piece of paper by itself means, if anything, is that the Chinese kid's parents spent a boatload of money in Iowa. Nowadays the Chinese kids have to actually prove with internal testing and interviews they can't cheat that they actually know something. Most Chinese kids that just bought their degrees don't even bother going through that and take their piece of paper back to China--but Chinese companies have also got wise to the fact that Chinese kids with foreign degrees didn't necessarily earn them, and now they are having a hell of a time finding a decent job even inside China. Of course, it sucks for the kids that actually did to the work and know their stuff that now they are tarred with this same assumption they just cheated their way to a degree, but that's the price a society pays when it's built on cheating.
todayilearned	Don't worry about it, they're only cheating themselves. Employers around the world, and especially in China, have figured out that Chinese person having a degree doesn't necessarily mean anything. These kids are paying triple the tuition price plus bringing tons of Chinese money into your country buying their fancy cars, clothes, and nice places to live, and at the end they get their piece of paper, but it's useless to them. A Chinese guy can't show up at a business with their piece of paper from Iowa State University or whatever and just get a job with it. Employers are wise to the fact that all that piece of paper by itself means, if anything, is that the Chinese kid's parents spent a boatload of money in Iowa. Nowadays the Chinese kids have to actually prove with internal testing and interviews they can't cheat that they actually know something. Most Chinese kids that just bought their degrees don't even bother going through that and take their piece of paper back to China--but Chinese companies have also got wise to the fact that Chinese kids with foreign degrees didn't necessarily earn them, and now they are having a hell of a time finding a decent job even inside China. Of course, it sucks for the kids that actually did to the work and know their stuff that now they are tarred with this same assumption they just cheated their way to a degree, but that's the price a society pays when it's built on cheating.
todayilearned	Don't worry about it, they're only cheating themselves at this point. Employers around the world, and especially in China, have figured out that Chinese person having a degree doesn't necessarily mean anything. These kids are paying triple the tuition price plus bringing tons of Chinese money into your country buying their fancy cars, clothes, and nice places to live, and at the end they get their piece of paper, but it's useless to them. A Chinese guy can't show up at a business with their piece of paper from Iowa State University or whatever and just get a job with it. Employers are wise to the fact that all that piece of paper by itself means, if anything, is that the Chinese kid's parents spent a boatload of money in Iowa. Nowadays the Chinese kids have to actually prove with internal testing and interviews they can't cheat that they actually know something. Most Chinese kids that just bought their degrees don't even bother going through that in a western country, and take their piece of paper back to China--but Chinese companies have also got wise to the fact that Chinese kids with foreign degrees didn't necessarily earn them, and now they are having a hell of a time finding a decent job even inside China. Of course, it sucks for the kids that actually did to the work and know their stuff that now they are tarred with this same assumption they just cheated their way to a degree, but that's the price a society pays when it's built on cheating.
todayilearned	I still have the note today from the teacher asking me to tutor the students offering me a job in the math lab and still have friends from that class on my Facebook friends list that would verify it. I have college professors in political science that will also explain that I was the best student they had and to one law professor who happens to be extremely successful in my state said that I wrote the best court analysis he's ever received from a student. I didn't say that to brag initially, I wanted to say that test scores mean piss all, but since you babies stuck in the 50s can't grow up and learn new methods of teaching or say that anti common core autism like "well I learned that way and it worked for me," I guess I'm forced to defend what shouldn't have even been the key part of my statement. I'm sorry your tiny ego is so bothered by a regular and normal occurrence in school that apparently didn't happen to you since you had teachers who were as backwards as you were and didn't get you interested enough to work hard and learn as well as I did.
todayilearned	OOH! I know all about this one! Aspire to all the other jobs. Volunteer to do all the shit that other people don't want to do. Escalations, training new people, if they'll let you, do the most annoying part of other people's jobs that they don't want to do. Pay the hell out of your dues. I took the absolute WORST escalations and didn't complain about them. I took a box of dirty mice that customers had returned, opened them up and cleaned them all out then distributed them around the floor (this was back when wheel mice were rare, for reference). I did training when it wasn't my job. I took on whatever projects I could. When people are looking to fill a role they look for people who are cheerfully doing whatever's needed of them. I've been at two different tech companies for 20 years total now and I've been internally promoted quite a few times. As one of my favorite managers told me, your management is going to ask you to eat a shit sandwich. Your job is to take a big fucking bite, smile and say "Yum yum! Could I have some more please?" On one hand, that's reprehensible and I'm worth more than that. On the other, holy shit it works.
todayilearned	I worked in admissions at a top US business school. We have stopped accepting the results of GMAT tests taken in China and India. Now the problem is that many students are traveling to neighboring countries to take the test and cheat from there... It's like whack-a-mole. The really tricky part is that the percentage of Asian students in MBA programs has gotten very high, and so many schools have started to raise the bar for Asians in general (hence the recent lawsuit against Harvard). ...of course, since there's a strong pressure to maintain African American and Hispanic quotas, white students without any sort of connection to the school have the highest bar of all to overcome, by far (as well as Asian Americans kids that aren't cheating). The entire admissions system has gotten F'd. So glad I no longer work there. The advice the admissions officers would give friends was to look through family trees and try to find literally any plausible ancestor that could demonstrably be hispanic, african, or native.
todayilearned	>navigate and be effective cogs in a Kafkaesque nightmare of a failed corporate culture than it is to train them to build bridges that won't collapse. Or, you know, deal with people who have strong opinions on something whe they don't have the slightest clue what they are talking about. Like dictating how an entire field should be educated and run. The reality is, a design means shit if you can't effectively build it, engineers do not only design, they implement, manage projects, inspect, etc. All of those individual fields require showing individual competence through licensure. Communication, effectively expressing a design, and overcoming obstacles are far more important to most fields of engineering than ability to design by picking numbers off a chart. Most designs aren't new or innovative, the handful of brilliant people who excel fill those rolls just fine. Tl;Dr: If you are installing a sidewalk, I don't care if you have a PhD.
todayilearned	Neither of those stats back up your argument at all. The other poster claimed that the majority of removed/retracted papers were Chinese. That has nothing to do with the most cited retracted papers or with the list authors who have the most retracted papers. There are simple explanations for fewer Chinese authors on those leaderboards... If it's well-known or believed that Chinese authors are unreliable, their papers are less likely to be cited. Edit: the quote he added is not from me and not from the person his comment is in response to; it's from a [different poster in a different comment chain that nobody engaged with](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/9enmff/til_that_cheating_is_so_acceptable_in_china_that/e5qv7fy?context=3). Misdirection.
todayilearned	> there's a lot of them going back to their country of origin with the degree instead of staying here There is no limit on the number of H1B visas issued for academic job positions, but it is not easy to get an academic job position either. I'm sure some of them wanted to go home, and I would also bet many of those students would have liked to stay in the US, but simply were unable to.
todayilearned	People can be judged by their individual work. Its not about leeching, they real idiots failed the classes based on individual performance. The point was, if you get a C or D student in a group full of A's, no extension, no taking it easy, you might need to work harder for an A this time. That life. If you have a deadline, you get it done, even if you work with idiots. Hell, your boss might be the biggest idiot in the bunch.
todayilearned	I know when I used to review articles for a few journals, there was a distinct pattern of bullshit, clearly fabricated papers coming out of China, and not from anywhere else. I just called them on it by either pointing out research they'd failed to cite that disproved what they claimed (a couple times that I'd published myself...), or asked for additional data I knew they'd be unable to produce. Never had any of those resubmitted.
todayilearned	And they do the same in the workforce, it doesn't stop in college. At work there are a bunch of all Chinese groups and if you join their group, you're going to take the fall for the inevitable failure of the group. The group fails because they lie to each other to save face, cannot admit mistakes and eventually nothing works. Then they wonder why so few of them end up as executives lol. Well in a country like the USA, it's harder to cheat your way to the top.
todayilearned	Yeah, like a culture of widespread gun ownership. Real shitty culture. You're missing the point. Of course we criticise problematic cultural norms - that's one of the primary functions of sociology. What this also means, however, is that you need to be more understanding of the individual's position amidst it. I can't blame a Chinese student entirely for plagiarising an essay to get ahead, or an American mother for keeping a handgun in the bedside drawer under the mistaken assumption it makes the family home safer. That shit's cultural
todayilearned	You are exactly the type of person I weed out during these interview questions. Somebody not pulling their weight is not always malicious. In real world, they may have other tasks assigned, other, non-technical value they provide (they may be better sales-people or have specific knowledge nobody else does). Finally, a person on your team may just go on vacation, but work still needs to be done. Your attitude may be passable for some minimum wage jobs that are used to internal drama, but you will get pushed out very quickly out of most office environments.
todayilearned	I think you and some others clearly lack reading comprehension. You being quick to anger further suggests lack of emotional control. Which in turn suggests lower intelligence. But I wasn't clear enough I guess. In their country if cheating is the accepted norm then that is fine. That's a level playing field for all and they have many highly intelligent subject matter experts. The cheating does not preclude them from learning and becoming experts in their fields. As I stated before, I don't like it. If they come over here and compete with us then the playing field needs to be level. Therefore they shouldn't be cheating. And they should be penalized when caught. Which they typically are. But it doesn't make them awful people. It's a cultural difference. So maybe relax on the strawman.
todayilearned	I have met a few of these types in the software/IT circle. Great resume writers. Great technical interview skills and knowledge on a few general questions. Can't even turn on a computer when hired. They just studied the "programming interview questions" books. Wrote a massaged resume with overlapping "contracts" or side work. Legit enough to catch some people and get the job paying bank for 6 months before anyone really finds out they don't know shit. Yet when you look into the work it's either made up or only 6-8 months of working at a legit place.
todayilearned	Bwahahaha someone here didn't read the entire post. I'm saying you can't (for a longer period of time anyway) fake a PhD in (for example) molecular biology, because that's very different from doing pretend work as a mid level manager at a stationary company. Also, the Peter principle states that people in heirarchies tend to be promoted until they're no longer competent at their role. It doesn't really apply when someone says they have a PhD in biology and is hired for that, but when they turn up to do practical experiments they don't know what a pipette is. You can fake many jobs, but but not all. Doing experiments in molecular biology is one of the things that's pretty hard to fake.
todayilearned	Bigotry? You go around getting kicked in the nutts by people in green shirts all day, are you not supposed to flinch when a person in a green shirt comes up to you? Should you just try to trust every green shirt for the sake of social niceness? Or should you probably approach a green shirt with caution and suspicion, because 90% of the time, they'll kick you square in the nutts? There's a systemic problem that scientific institutions in China need to address. This isn't a case of "you shouldn't fully trust Chinese scientific articles because they're written by Chinese" it's, "you shouldn't fully trust Chinese scientific articles because they have a systemic problem of lying and fraud within their scientific community". There's a way for them to clear this up: China needs to address these problems, rigorously test the scientific data they put out, and start turning out scientific information that is reproducable and trustworthy. When a respected scientific institution publishes an article, those in the scientific community usually believe its been rigorously tested, because those people don't have the same ability/time/funding to test it themselves. When it turns out your institutions don't seem to care much about one of the basic tenants of science, that your work is sound and reproducable, then they lose trust. No one is asking them to change their race or ethnicity, we're just asking that their institutions care more about the quality of scientific work they do. Their institutions have lost our trust, they need to gain it back. If the green shirted nutt kickers would like our trust, then simply don't kick us in the nutts. No one is asking them to change shirts.
todayilearned	My favorite resume memory was when I was interviewing a candidate who’s resume said that they were a “freelance consultant” for the last three years. I asked what that was like and he just looked confused. I showed it to him on his resume and he said, “Oh, it wasn’t my idea to put that on there.” I asked one more question to be polite and then thanked him for his time.
todayilearned	They do this after graduation too. I was once hired to "troubleshoot" a high tech company that was struggling to meet commitments. It was a small company in the Silicon Valley, and the business side was exasperated with the tech side. I don't recall the trigger, but I was called in by a new manager, who I had known, because he was afraid a customer demo was going to fail. I helped over a couple days, and then was asked to advise. The company had been taken over by Chinese PhDs and techs who were using it as a kind of sinecure. A couple of decent hires proceeded to stuff the company full of associates who were totally incompetent. I could not discover if there were payoffs, but they were all hiding the incompetence of each other. So if there was a project, it would have a group of 4 working on it but only one was actually capable of making progress. Another project might have two competent people and between the three competent people work on both projects would progress at 1/5 speed. Yet all were paid and when non-technical management tried to make things go faster they were told that it was R&D and you could not predict progress. This takeover took several years and slowly the decent people would leave and what was left were Chinese placeholders. When I got called in, I would walk through basic steps (I am intentionally vague here) and I quickly discovered that at least half were unable to even do basic things, and were unteachable. It was a mess. I told the guy who hired me that the only solution was to set up a parallel group, (not Chinese!) and transfer all technology and development to the new group, extracting it from the initial group over a period of a few months. Then fire them all.
todayilearned	Unless you have eyes placed on your head like a gazelle I doubt you had an accidental habit of uncovering forbidden truths on the papers of students to either side of you unless you made a conscious effort to do so. I made no such conscious effort and kids were not crammed next to me on either side. The spacing between desks during my tutelage was more than adequate to walk between all rows and so anything to either side of me between a 95 to 60 degree range was blurry because that's how peripheral vision actually works.
todayilearned	I have a friend that deals with academic violations at one of the big universities in California, and she's mentioned to me on several occasions that they routinely have academic disciplinary boards with Chinese students over cheating, and there's a clear pattern of behavior: - if they are first or second generation Chinese, they cheat primarily out of intense pressure to succeed brought on by their family. They may be otherwise good students who've hit some kind of snag and cheated out of desperation. - if they are international students from China on student visas, they tend to cheat out of routine, either by assuming it's okay, or brazenly believing they won't be held accountable. All of this became enough of a problem that the university made some changes to help mitigate issues. For the folks pressured by family, they now do the disciplinary hearing without a family member present. Apparently they admit to cheating in the hearing if they are there on their own, but with a family member present they're more likely to lie, which results in far more severe outcomes. So by taking the family out of the equation, the student gets a chance to admit to the offense and take corrective action without their family knowing or adding even more pressure. And now all international students at the university get a very specific, detailed block of instruction on unacceptable academic behavior as part of their orientation.
todayilearned	IT - Computer Systems Analyst Only needs a 2 year diploma, I went to an accelerated 1 year program (no breaks) to gain a 2 year diploma. Customs officer says that 2 years means spending minimum 2 years in class Might have just been the wrong guy on the wrong day. CBP officers are a mixed bag sometimes. Working with an immigration lawyer since last week to see if I can get my diploma recognized as a 2 year equivalent. If that goes through, then I can try to apply again directly through USCIS instead of at a crossing (ie. the slow way) No need for pity, just wanted to give a great example of an instance where you need that educational paper over years of experience and expertise.
todayilearned	Why does a critique of a college professor and anthropologist need to be peer-reviewed? The author makes observations about Boas' history according to Boas' own accounts and writings, observations anybody can make. When you make observations about things do you say nothing unless you have a group of scientists to confer with first? It's not that you're not taking me seriously, you're being intentionally ignorant of facts presented to you because you don't want to be antisemitic, doesn't sound like you're a very objective or rational individual. May I ask what you studied at college?
todayilearned	The is a difference between managing expectations of non-technical staff vs. working with incompetent/lazy technical staff. If they aren't doing their work, the teacher has a responsibility to count that against them. Allowing them to pass when you know they didn't do the required work is a textbook example of unethical behavior. It devalues the grades/degrees earned by everyone else and puts unqualified engineers out into the field. It's just bad all around.
todayilearned	I report them all and... really nothing happens to any of them. I had a student on his fifth j-board review for cheating and the judicial board decided that having a file named "NameYouOwnme40.docx" was not proof that someone else wrote this document that did not sound like any of his other assignments. And then the student cans you on your teaching evals which is, here, the only way our teaching is evaluated. Lots of professors who are adjuncts or don't have tenure yet honestly fear that reprisal because it could negatively effect their employment.
todayilearned	the tourist issue is extremely public and visible. so it's higher impact. they also didnt need some crazy law to fix it. they just issued a manual. meanwhile, the fake phd thing is a small one. most people don't even know about it and it isnt always true neither. you are just a couple guys saying it. if it was that well known, chinese phds wouldnt even be able to get jobs in america but that's not what's happening. also, in order to fix the fake phd issue, they would need sweeping changes to their academic system and society as a whole that is probably impossible to implement at this point. all for what? so some whites can hire phds on the cheap? right like they're going to do that.
todayilearned	That makes total sense. Like you were getting at, the entire syntax was just totally wrong which made it more or less unintelligible on a basic level. I could see her translating the words and verb tenses but not redoing the entire sentence to have the correct syntax. She also completely failed to put in pronouns and plurals, which from my understanding aren't really big in Chinese. I remember sitting down with her, reading a sentence out loud and asking her what it even meant. And she was able to tell me what she actually meant by it quite fluidly.
todayilearned	I don't have to be rational or serious when my goal is to waste an anti-Semite's time. Boas' whole thing was about showing that culture is the main influence on how you think and react to the world. Apparently, your culture says it's right and true to blame Jews for things and that it's right to twist facts to fit that agenda. Antisemitism and thoughts like yours killed half my family, so my culture dictates an immediate thought of "fuck you" to anyone who uses slurs like that.
todayilearned	> scarily, they regularly do the same for drivers licenses. if they fail, if they fail, they just they send someone who looks enough like them to take the test. It may be hard to imagine for you, but Asians can actually differentiate from eachother. Not all Asians look the same. This sounds like complete bullshit. > the bad Asian driver trope starts to make more sense. And do you know who get most of the ''bad asian driver'' shit? Asian-Americans who are born in America and get the same driving lessons and exams as anyone else. The bad Asian driver trope doesn't make sense because it's not just applied to Chinese immigrants but to all members of the Asian race. It's racist. > I dated a girl for a couple years who moved here from China as a teenager. she was naturalized but still ingrained in the immigrant circles. The typical redditor ''i dated an asian girl so let me explain to you how asians and asian culture works'' response.
todayilearned	It might not be a problem now, but if the issue keeps growing, they'll eventually end up with a ruined reputation in these matters. But as someone said, this is a sign of authoritarian rule. They care more about apperance and substance. The potential impact will be felt in the future, but they're more worried about handing out as many PhDs as they can so they can be at the top of the "number of PhDs" ranking. Because looking good now is more important than long term reputation. You're right that authoritarians only care about apperances, but I'm just saying that it's strange, given how keen they are on maintaining their international reputation, that they're not long sighted enough to prevent this from happening.
todayilearned	6-month classes, and they can call themselves "programmers". No...programmers don't call their variables "MyDT". I'll never forgive my company for farming out our entire import system to one of those code factories in India. Full of MyProgrammers. I begged. I told them I'd rewrite the framework for free, just need to borrow an intern to help bang out the templates. It was a VB6 to .NET conversion, and a database overhaul. Super-easy. Nope. They insisted it would be cheaper than doing it in-house. That was 6 years ago, and we still suffer with it, and no one is willing to change it because it managed to get copy/pasted across 6x the number of plug-ins that were originally present.
todayilearned	So this one anecdote made you bold enough to literally say ''they regularly send another person for driving tests'' about a population of nearly 2 billion people. That just sounds like one particular person who is bad at driving, and the other person who took her place obviously was able to drive. I know white friends that literally had to do their exam like 5 times, I am not going to use their shortcomings to imply that all are bad at driving or that, if my friends cheated, that white people regularly let another white person take their driving exams. I see people here on reddit making the most bold assumptions about Asian people (incredibly diverse population with different norms and values) because they know or dated 1 random Asian person. Wtf. I know literally hundreds of white people and dozens of black people personally, and even I have never used my experiences with those individuals to judge their whole racial groups. edit: its a funny anecdote, but you can leave the judgement of all asian people aside next time
todayilearned	Thanks for letting me actually see the book. Well Kevin MacDonald is someone that the Southern Poverty Law Center has called, "the neo-Nazi movement's favorite academic." So that's not a great start. He has has a book in that series with a foreword by Sam Francis. You know he was a well-known racist, bigot, and anti-Semite, right? I'm sure this book will not be biased in any way. Hmm, guess not. Every review I can find of this book from reputable reviewers, and not random people on Amazon, says it distorts facts to bring on a false conclusion. That it's bunk science. So what i'm saying is, find a better source.
todayilearned	They don't need evidence because what they're saying is simply common knowledge. What you're saying requires evidence because it goes against what everyone already knows. >China has stood out in another, less boastful way. Since 2012, the country has retracted more scientific papers because of faked peer reviews than all other countries and territories put together, according to Retraction Watch, a blog that tracks and seeks to publicize retractions of research papers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/world/asia/china-science-fraud-scandals.html
todayilearned	I will say this... There is cheating among the international students who take the GMAT to get into MBA programs. They have various forums among the Chinese community that basically give out the answers to some of the questions to the test (assuming you take the test within a certain time frame to ensure the questions haven't changed). Not to discredit any of the students who studied for it, but they do have those outlets to help them get a few extra points or more on tests like these.
todayilearned	I get it that you're invested here and want to push back on anything negative, but you seem to be missing the point. her friend wasn't an amusing anecdote because she did this. it was amusing because she tried at all instead of just paying for a license from an already well established group of people who do this service and especially so because she tried multiple times before "giving in and just paying for a license like everyone else" more specifically this was Chinatown in NYC. I can't speak specifically for other areas.
todayilearned	Funny how you're relying on academics who I've told you are Jewish and/or serving a Jewish agenda to dictate the reliability of a source, rather than reading it for yourself. I can't provide a satisfactory source if my stance is antisemitic and thus wrong by default, can you not see how this is a logical fallacy? You're prejudging my evidence based on a broad term used to shut down any criticism of Jews, talk about biased
todayilearned	*White Americans are xenophobic and thus suck at basic geography. Closed Mindedness plus Faux News viewership usually leads to a distortion of world views. Fear mongering is easier to do when groups of 'others' (non-whites) can be easily categorized and catalogued. So they have no need or want to differentiate minorities. Thus: •Africa is a country that every black/dark person is from •Latin America/South America/ Spanish speaking= Mexican •Middle East/Muslim/Head Turban= Terrorist (can be substituted with any buzz word country from the region, they're all the same) •All asians are Chinese •All Indians are Red Dot or Woo Woo FTFY
todayilearned	Not saying distrust a scientific article with a Chinese name, I'm saying distrust the article because it came from a Chinese institution. I responded to the "bigot" comment who was responding to the "great deal of trouble for using Chinese research paper". CHINESE research papers. Not research papers with Chinese authors, but research papers specifically put out by people in China. Plenty of great American, Canadian, etc, researchers and scientists who hail from China, have Chinese backgrounds and/or have ethnic Chinese names. Didn't ask OP to do anything about it. Said it was a Chinese problem that the Chinese need to deal with. The Peoples Republic of China State Council aren't exactly known for listening to their own people, I wouldn't expect them to listen to foreigners. And how dare you! I would never discriminate against a red shirt. Red shirts are nutt fondlers and highly revered in my culture!
todayilearned	You're doing a good job of warping what i've been saying. The only source you've provided isn't a valid criticism. It's a biased work from someone with anti-semitic ties. Of course the resulting work creates a negative connotation of Jews. That's what bias does. It distorts truth and facts. If you want to change my mind, show me sources from someone who a) isn't Jewish. and b) isn't anti-Semitic and does not have ties with anti-Semitic groups such as the Occidental Observer or the Council of Conservative Citizens. I wouldn't send articles to you from Mother Jones, likewise you shouldn't send things to me from Breitbart. Because both are heavily biased. Neutral sources without bias are where the actual characterization of facts come from. Until you can do that, all you're spouting is Fake News.
todayilearned	Using Google as major resource in the field is something heavily instilled into us in the Networking field, but they also heavily instill into us how it works, critical thinking skills, and proper troubleshooting. Cheating is cheating, and Google will only get you so far if you rely on it solely. Sitting there using Google every time an issue pops up or you have to do some is entirely inefficient and will lead to issues due to only knowing the bits and pieces you get from a search.
todayilearned	If you honestly think “it’s common knowledge therefor proof is unnecessary and all counter-evidence must be wrong”, you might as well join the ranks of Reddit pseudo-scientists you are working so hard to be a part of. Same article by the way: > Over all, experts say, there are signs that the academic environment in China is improving. Plagiarism appears to be in decline thanks to new detection tools, and Chinese-born researchers returning from universities overseas have brought back best practices, helping to raise ethical standards.
todayilearned	I have college professors in political science that will also explain that I was the best student they had and to one law professor who happens to be extremely successful in my state said that I wrote the best court analysis he's ever received from a student. I'm sorry your tiny ego is so bothered by a regular and normal occurrence in school that apparently didn't happen to you since you had teachers who were as backwards as you were and didn't get you interested enough to work hard and learn as well as I did. I didn't say that to brag initially, I wanted to say that test scores mean piss all, but since you babies stuck in the 50s can't grow up and learn new methods of teaching or say that anti common core autism like "well I learned that way and it worked for me," I guess I'm forced to defend what shouldn't have even been the key part of my statement.
todayilearned	Not from china or chinese, just wanted to share what I personally saw in a similar (Vietnam) culture. I just went to take a scooter driver's license test recently, and saw at least 3 people who didn't even pretend to put any effort into the driving part of the test and yet they passed with flying colors. It's not like everybody do it, most don't but the option of just bribing for your driver's license is definitely there and VERY accessible, like asking the test officer guy out for coffee/lunch or just slipping him 50$ when it's your turn.
todayilearned	Retracted articles are (as far as I am aware) published first. If it isn't published, then there isn't a way for it to be peer reviewed and replicated, which leads to findings such as fraud. As a reminder, the study that claimed there was a link between vaccines and autism was a published paper in a reputable journal. If you ever go to cite a paper that is based upon a study, do so with caution if you cannot find replications, and honestly just not at all if it isn't peer reviewed. Peer review doesn't guarantee however that the study is not fraudulent, others could review it that are aware of the fraud, and benefit from it. Another thing is studies may not be asking all the right questions, things that appear to be sound, may later be found out to be incorrect, not through fraudulence, but simply due to understanding and the questions being asked.

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