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[810.24 --> 817.08] overlap uh you know we keep our our thumb on open source and you know we have to go out of our way to |
[817.08 --> 821.52] find pearl open source even though it has been from the very beginning so is it what is it about pearl |
[821.52 --> 828.82] the community is it just small or is this just not vocal um why it's not better known in the |
[828.82 --> 836.72] greater open source community at one time it was obviously late 1990s early 2000 as i mentioned |
[836.72 --> 842.48] pearl was known as the duct tape of the internet because it was virtually everything that you wanted |
[842.48 --> 846.72] to know on the web you know if it wasn't written directly in pearl pearl was supporting behind the |
[846.72 --> 851.50] scenes and that's still often surprisingly true today i work for a number of different companies |
[851.50 --> 856.04] they call me in for all sorts of consulting things and i'm finding pearl all over the place but |
[856.04 --> 864.56] i think part of what happened was uh back around uh around 2000 2001 there was kind of a malaise in |
[864.56 --> 870.22] the pearl community um internally they were still trying to work out some differences um some folks |
[870.22 --> 875.50] were frustrated and there was a famous incident when john orwatt threw a mug at the wall shattered it |
[875.50 --> 881.18] and said we've got to do something different and then the pearl 6 project was born and there was a |
[881.18 --> 885.78] misunderstanding from the beginning it was decided that pearl 6 would be the successor to pearl |
[885.78 --> 891.14] but then it was quickly realized that it couldn't be the successor to pearl and said it would be a |
[891.14 --> 896.42] sister language just as you have you know c sharp is a sister language to java c plus plus is kind of a |
[896.42 --> 904.10] sister language to pearl pearl 6 is a sister language to pearl 5 and a lot of people simply see pearl 5 and |
[904.10 --> 910.10] they don't realize that we have major releases um every year or so um new features powerful features |
[910.10 --> 916.14] being introduced all the time but people just keep seeing pearl 6 and they're not aware that you know |
[916.14 --> 921.44] development's still continuing on pearl 6 that pearl 5 is still tremendous progressing at a tremendous |
[921.44 --> 927.64] pace and internally i actually was doing a lot of work with marketing with pearl and i discovered a |
[927.64 --> 932.76] tremendous amount of hostility from the pearl community for marketing itself um they were just happy |
[932.76 --> 939.46] to sit back and get stuff done and that kind of caused a problem so people outside think that |
[939.46 --> 945.06] pearl 6 is a successor and therefore pearl 5 isn't going anywhere when that's absolutely not true we're |
[945.06 --> 951.38] on pearl 520 right now pearl 522 um you know it's going to be out fairly soon new features being added |
[951.38 --> 958.90] all the time um powerful features and it's a great language but we don't do a great job of talking about |
[958.90 --> 964.46] outside of the community it sounds like some misinformation there sort of stouts you a little bit because |
[964.46 --> 970.42] you want to you obviously want to progress but you don't want to stop the progression and and be like |
[970.42 --> 977.10] that pearl 5 is not going anywhere can you talk a bit about beyond that the the health aspects i guess of |
[977.10 --> 984.34] of of 5 versus 6 or where that's you know what some of the biggest issues are around this 5 versus 6 transition |
[984.34 --> 990.28] well they're entirely separate languages that needs to be understood first of all as i mentioned |
[990.28 --> 996.62] they're sister languages like c shark or java c plus plus two so it's a right turn to lisp yes um |
[996.62 --> 1002.72] there is some work being done to make pearl 5 run inside of pearl 6 but it needs to be understood that |
[1002.72 --> 1008.02] they're not the same language so because we haven't done a great job of communicating that outside and |
[1008.02 --> 1014.22] because a lot of people just see that pearl 5 was released um that was actually back in 1994 |
[1014.22 --> 1021.46] that pearl 5 was released uh that was 20 years ago so people aren't aware that pearl 5 20 is not the |
[1021.46 --> 1031.16] same language as pearl 5 pearl 5 code will generally run with a lot of warnings in 5 20 but 5 20 and the |
[1031.16 --> 1035.78] supporting libraries that are available for it such as moose probably the most advanced object-oriented |
[1035.78 --> 1040.96] system you're going to find in any dynamic language today and possibly more advanced than most static |
[1040.96 --> 1047.00] languages i would say fan fabulous tool i i miss that when i program in anything else there are such |
[1047.00 --> 1052.12] wonderful things available for pearl 5 but people outside the community aren't aware of that i would |
[1052.12 --> 1057.04] like to see the pearl community we've done a great job over the past few years of internally getting our |
[1057.04 --> 1062.10] act together healing you know pushing things forward after that malaise of people internally not |
[1062.10 --> 1068.24] understanding the pearl 5 pearl 6 split um but it would be it would be great if we can communicate |
[1068.24 --> 1074.54] that better outside because if people outside of pearl aren't aware of how powerful it is the powerful |
[1074.54 --> 1079.62] web frameworks orms and other tools that we have uh you know we drive a lot of what's called the bio |
[1079.62 --> 1083.58] pearl movement so there's a lot of biological work the research being done with pearl if people |
[1083.58 --> 1090.06] outside aren't aware of that it's harder for them to make the decision to choose that let's pause the show |
[1090.06 --> 1094.62] for just a minute give a shout out to a sponsor rack space has been helping us out they love open |
[1094.62 --> 1100.56] source we love open source uh we've been working with rack space for the past year and uh one of the |
[1100.56 --> 1104.52] things they keep telling me is how much they love open source and that's why they keep sponsoring the |
[1104.52 --> 1109.52] show and making sure that you know how much they care about it and that's also why they're giving you |
[1109.52 --> 1116.66] and everyone else who wants it 50 a month in credit for 12 months that's right 50 a month in credit |
[1116.66 --> 1121.92] for 12 months to explore their open cloud all you got to do is create a developer plus account to get |
[1121.92 --> 1128.26] started go to the changelaw.com slash rack space to get started you get dev to dev support so if you |
[1128.26 --> 1133.88] got complex questions you can talk directly to their developers about their sdks and their apis |
[1133.88 --> 1140.08] they have various services included like monitoring dns auto scaling orchestration private networking the |
[1140.08 --> 1146.24] list goes on there is no usage limits you can use your services as much as you want and you're only |
[1146.24 --> 1152.80] billed for usage beyond 50 a month again they're giving away 50 a month in credit for 12 months |
[1152.80 --> 1159.20] go to the changelaw.com slash rack space to get started and now back to the show yeah something |
[1159.20 --> 1162.74] we have in our notes here too it's i'm going to quote this back to you because this is what you |
[1162.74 --> 1168.12] said you said the pearl community and you've said this too here in the show just not as succinctly as |
[1168.12 --> 1172.80] this um you said the pearl community has been stunningly bad at marketing in this area meaning |
[1172.80 --> 1179.82] um you know this divide between pearl 5 and pearl 6 and just in general what pearls is going to do |
[1179.82 --> 1184.48] today and what it's doing today and jared i think that's something maybe we can even possibly help out |
[1184.48 --> 1189.96] with like you know curtis you mentioned in the bio information you know different areas where pearl |
[1189.96 --> 1194.80] is doing some cool stuff i think it's neat how the changelaw can kind of step in and have curtis on the |
[1194.80 --> 1200.50] show and and talk to you know what probably is we have a large ruby audience a large javascript |
[1200.50 --> 1206.30] audience um to to some people who don't often look at pearl and say oh that's that's neat we should |
[1206.30 --> 1213.80] try that out but maybe there's a a space here where there's some interest to peek up how great is the |
[1213.80 --> 1220.66] divide between the two as far as you know sister languages are they syntactically very similar |
[1220.66 --> 1227.92] or they have huge differences um was pearl 6 was just a huge undertaking uh is it used in production |
[1227.92 --> 1232.80] i'm just having tons of questions pour out of me here uh pick ovid pick any of those and just run |
[1232.80 --> 1239.72] with it because i got so many questions now so if you were to look at maybe an interesting example |
[1239.72 --> 1245.92] would be there are many people who criticize pearl they're unhappy with it people who don't know pearl |
[1245.92 --> 1250.52] they look at it and they just see a bunch of sigils of punctuation characters all over |
[1250.52 --> 1256.26] place many of these people could look at pearl and php and not tell you which is which they're not |
[1256.26 --> 1260.40] going to say anything about php they might have different complaints about php about you know how |
[1260.40 --> 1265.84] it's kind of ad hoc you know unclear interfaces but for the uninitiated you won't see a difference |
[1265.84 --> 1270.80] and yet many people will turn to php over pearl simply because it's just ubiquitous on web servers |
[1270.80 --> 1277.20] and it's so quick and easy to get things started with php uh pearl is extremely powerful um i think in |
[1277.20 --> 1282.08] many respects i i would definitely prefer pearl over php not just because i know it so well but |
[1282.08 --> 1285.02] there's some benefits to some of the things it does i'm not going to get into it i don't want to |
[1285.02 --> 1290.08] fight between languages php is a great thing because it does other stuff well but if you can't tell the |
[1290.08 --> 1296.74] difference from the outside then if you're in the inside you can easily tell the difference for pro 5 and |
[1296.74 --> 1301.50] pro 6 from the outside it's a little bit harder to tell the difference until you start getting into |
[1301.50 --> 1305.86] some of the more advanced features from the inside you're going to see huge differences so they're |
[1305.86 --> 1310.92] definitely sister languages so you would look at pearl 5 code and there's a lot of pearl 5 code |
[1310.92 --> 1316.74] which if it's written carefully will run the same under pearl 6 but the differences quickly diverge in |
[1316.74 --> 1322.56] the cleaner syntax of pearl 6 something we call invariant sigils which really solves a lot of the |
[1322.56 --> 1330.02] problems that new developers in pearl 5 had a lot of the things that are add-ons to pearl 5 today |
[1330.02 --> 1335.74] such as meta programming roles which is probably the greatest advancement object-oriented |
[1335.74 --> 1341.18] programming since simula 67 almost 50 years ago that's going to be baked into the language so many |
[1341.18 --> 1348.16] powerful things about it which either don't exist directly in pearl 5 or would be very hard to implement |
[1348.16 --> 1354.04] tell us about that over this roles thing okay roles this comes from smallpox style traits |
[1354.04 --> 1360.50] and there was a paper called um a brief introduction to traits i believe is the name and it was an |
[1360.50 --> 1367.06] introduction to solving a long-standing problem we had with uh object-oriented programming so in 1967 |
[1367.06 --> 1373.48] simula 67 was released and that had classes inheritance polymorphism uh encapsulation and people generally |
[1373.48 --> 1381.16] agreed about all of that except for inheritance inheritance was such a problem so many languages allow |
[1381.16 --> 1388.36] multiple inheritance such as c++ and others but you're often warned not to actually use it other languages such as |
[1388.36 --> 1395.66] java ruby and others say okay multiple inheritance is such a problem we're not going to allow that at |
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