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**Adam Stacoviak:** What about you, Mikeal? |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Let me think... Okay, there is a project called LeafletJS. It's a pretty amazing JavaScript library for doing everything you ever wanted to do with maps - embedding maps that work on mobile, and desktop, all the interactions, putting points in... All that cool stuff. There's this great company MapZen... |
\[52:15\] I've been building a little app in my spare time for fun with that library, and I was really impressed with how far along this LeafletJS thing is... It does literally everything. And for a task this huge you kind of have to be a big framework, but as far as big frameworks and big piles of code go, it's actual... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, my pick will be something to tease up some future content for us. There was a blog post on the Heroku blog talking about the Rise of Kotlin. We just recorded an episode this week which will go out in about three weeks because we have a small backlog... And I'm pretty excited about this. It was... |
So rather than Kotlin being like Swift is to Apple, Kotlin is to Google - it's not that way; it's actually JetBrains, a third-party. So it's really interesting how this language came about, really interesting about how it's solving some interesting things on the JVM, and the power it's giving to Android developers to h... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Awesome. Alright, good stuff. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And with that, that is the Ask Me Anything Random Live Show of JS Party. This was probably the most random show we've done so far, so thanks for tuning in. For those in Slack, thanks for hanging out! |
• Async Flow Control |
• History of async programming in JavaScript (callback, promises, generators) |
• Problems with early async implementation (callback hell) |
• Evolution of async solutions (Backbone, Promises A) |
• Current state of async programming in JavaScript (standardization, tooling) |
• Managing state over time is a complex problem in modern JavaScript applications |
• Asynchronous programming can lead to "callback hell" and difficulties with flow control |
• Kyle Simpson uses the Legend of Zelda analogy to describe how code flow can fork and become non-linear, making it hard for developers to understand |
• Teaching JavaScript often involves choosing between explaining low-level concepts like callbacks or higher-level abstractions like async/await |
• Callbacks have limitations, including: |
• Lack of memory: callbacks don't inherently store state with them |
• Difficulty managing time as a complex state in the application |
• Inability to pair state with callbacks without introducing ad-hoc patterns like thunks or closures |
• Problems with callbacks: "callback hell" |
• Need for cancelable async actions and state management |
• Inversion of control issue with callbacks |
• Syntax promotes non-local, non-sequential reasoning, making code hard to understand |
• Promises are a better solution due to their design and ability to un-invert control |
• Future of the web: concerns about proprietary alternatives and loss of open standards |
• Debate over the role of companies like Google and Microsoft in shaping web standards |
• Criticism of W3C's structure and Apple's use of veto power to limit innovation |
• Discussion of TC39's consensus-based process for JavaScript standardization |
• Concerns about digital rights protection (DRM) being integrated into the web platform |
• Fear that vendors will gain control over content and user experience, undermining open web principles |
• Existential threat to the open web from content producers being forced to use restrictive monetization models and account for piracy |
• Concerns about user privacy and control being taken away by ad networks and personalized advertising |
• Discussion around the principle of constituencies, prioritizing users over developers and implementers when making decisions about web platform functionality |
• Importance of security and performance in maintaining the web's competitive edge against proprietary competitors like app stores |
• Analysis of progressive web apps and blurring lines between web and native apps, with a focus on user needs and currencies (e.g. battery life, bandwidth) |
• Discussion on the limitations of web development due to its focus on backwards-compatibility |
• The potential drawbacks of being too focused on compatibility, including slower innovation and creation of workarounds |
• Comparison with other industries, such as Apple's hardware, where upgrading is necessary for optimal performance |
• Backwards-compatibility as a fundamental aspect of the web's inclusion and neutrality |
• Introduction to the project of the week: Blake2b-WASM, a WebAssembly implementation of a secure hashing algorithm |
• Discussion on the potential of WebAssembly to improve performance in web development, including moving complex tasks off the main thread. |
• WebAssembly (WASM) and its implications on web development |
• Potential shift towards using languages like C, Go, or Rust for web applications |
• Impact of WASM on "View source" functionality and debugging tools |
• Possibility of Node.js supporting WASM and changing the way JavaScript is used |
• SIMD extensions being pulled from TC39 due to WebAssembly |
• Pressure release valve effect of WebAssembly on JavaScript language development |
• Performance comparison between WASM implementation and native modules in Node.js |
• Introduction of Atomics and Shared Memory features in ES2017 |
• Discussion of JavaScript's Atomics API and its similarities to Go's message passing structures |
• Importance of shared memory between workers in JavaScript and potential performance benefits |
• Picks discussion: |
+ Alex Sexton: Blake2b-WASM |
+ Mikeal Rogers: Quest MCT powder for keto diet |
+ Kyle Simpson: Fluent Web Conference (co-chairing) |
+ Alex Sexton: Preact.js as a lightweight alternative to React |
• Recommendation of talk "Into the void 0" by Jason Miller at JSConf EU |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Welcome to JS Party, where it's a party every week with JavaScript! I'm Mikeal Rogers... |
**Alex Sexton:** I'm Alex Sexton... |
**Kyle Simpson:** And I'm Kyle Simpson. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Kyle is guesting this week, filling in for Rachel. We're gonna ask him all kinds of questions about IoT and Robots, just to make sure that he's properly filling in... No, no... |
**Alex Sexton:** Put him through his paces a little... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Right, exactly. \[laughs\] No, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna talk about some very interesting topics that I think we can all get into... The first one is not a contentious topic at all; nobody has differing opinions about this. This is Async Flow Control, so... |
**Kyle Simpson:** Yeah, it's very uncontroversial. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** I mean, there's generators, there's callbacks, there's promises... Pretty much nobody has an opinion about which one of those to use; everybody does what they want. I just wanna get into some of the pros and cons, and also because we have Kyle here, who spent a lot of time writing educational materia... |
Alex has a lot more experience in like a bigger company dealing with this stuff, so there may be some opposing perspectives there. Kyle why don't you tell us a little bit about this? I know that you have some libraries around this as well... |
**Kyle Simpson:** Yeah, I do. I've been at this Async stuff for quite a while. I was just recounting the other day that some of the earliest exposure that I had was the very early spec discussions when Mark on the TC39 committee was bringing up the idea of putting promises into JavaScript. He had this e-programming lan... |
Async has been a cornerstone of the language for a really long time, since practically the beginning, but it's a kind of a modern invention that we thought that we should have some higher order patterns for organizing asynchronous code beyond just the callback. When I teach about it, when I write about it, I have to go... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** \[04:07\] When you say "way back", are you talking about DOM addEventListener() and then jQuery kind of normalized that and made it a little bit more reasonable... Is that what you mean by "way far back" for the async programming? |
**Kyle Simpson:** Well, some of us were writing async programming before we even understood what closures were... I remember back in 2002 - JavaScript was comparatively pretty young and immature at that point, but I remember writing an internal application that ran only on IE4, and 5 is when they introduced the XMLHttp... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** I remember when jQuery came out, a lot of new people just kind of jumped into jQuery and did a ton of stuff, and they were doing all this async programming without really realizing it. Alex, could you give us some perspective on that, since you were definitely heavily involved in the jQuery community... |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, it was definitely the case that, being in the jQuery IRC channel at the time - whenever it kind of exploded - you'd get the paste bin of a lot of various people's different sites. And generally, people weren't doing the same type of massive, large, single-page application, but it was more like "I... |
It's like, "Well, first I can do this, and then I iterate all the elements and then I change them and it's good", but as you start handling more complex actions, async control flow, and even like a callback, it's really easy, real fast, but then when you need to wait for like two callbacks to both finish, you end up wr... |
I think Backbone was a direct answer -- not that it solves a lot of that stuff, but just the structure of those files. So it wasn't even like an async solution, but it was just code organization, being able to split up files and actions, and some asynchronous control when it comes to models and stuff like that... But I... |
Then naturally, their apps got bigger and they were like "Oh my god, we still need async control flow", and I think we're just getting to the point where people have solid -- you know, kind of the promises revolution and all that kind of stuff; it's the first time people kind of had solid understandings of all of this ... |
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