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**Mikeal Rogers:** No, it's really not recommended... |
**Alex Sexton:** Nested installation... npm install that kicks of in npm install... |
**Rebecca Turner:** Or "Download this tarball and extract it here", and some of that includes Node modules. |
**Alex Sexton:** I see. |
**Rachel White:** Notably, \[unintelligible 00:21:04.27\] does that in various ways. |
**Rebecca Turner:** Yeah... Those, of course, don't affect the modules. |
**Rachel White:** That's true. |
**Alex Sexton:** One of the reasons I think Sam - who helped with yarn a little bit - was interested in doing yarn was because of the ability... It was like a vulnerability -- I'm very fuzzy on this, but you could kind of do a lot of things with the post-install script stuff; has that changed at all in npm@5? |
**Rebecca Turner:** No, and it didn't change in yarn, either. We heard that too, and it was very interesting because by the time yarn was released, it was running all the scripts again. You've always been able to run npm with ignore scripts, which makes it so it doesn't run any of those - that's been a feature since np... |
**Alex Sexton:** Would things break? |
**Kat Marchán:** Oh, yeah. That's probably why yarn put it back in, because they realized the ecosystem very intimately relies on those build scripts... Everything, not just JEP. But people do all sorts of things in their install scripts just to set up their modules, and we have the ecosystem we have. |
**Alex Sexton:** Is there like a plot for some sort of way to make that safe in the future? |
**Rebecca Turner:** I mean, you're running someone else's code on your computer; you're doing that when you put the module in there, right? Your program's gonna require that module and it could do anything, so there is no way to make that safe. There's no such thing as a code library that makes that safe, unless you're... |
**Kat Marchán:** There are services that provide this kind of security; that's why we have NSP, that's why we have LibSecurity, that's why we have Snyk. If you're really paranoid about this stuff, aside from reviewing them you can also run them in jail VMs to make sure that nothing escapes... That is kind of what you h... |
This is something that affects pretty much every package manager in existence pretty much. |
**Rebecca Turner:** I mean, everyone that doesn't essentially have an editorial board accepting packages. So OS package managers tend to have that. If you wanna get something into Debian, people are going to look at it before you put it in. But if you wanna publish something to PyPy or RubyGems, or the CPad. No one's g... |
**Kat Marchán:** We do have some stuff on the pipeline which I actually don't know if I can talk about, because that's registry stuff and that's not my circus, not my monkeys, but we do have stuff to prevent the infamous worms that people are worried about. So at least automated self-publishing worms will be mitigated.... |
**Alex Sexton:** \[24:05\] I think that might be the thing that I was thinking of specifically. There's something to be said if you're only using it as a frontend tool; maybe you're not actually executing any code, in which case there could be a world where there's no scripts that run and you could still -- I don't kno... |
**Kat Marchán:** We semi-regularly re-visit to see if there's anything new that we could do, but it's something that we've known about and tried to deal with since the early days. There's issues about this going back a long time, and it's just like "Well, what do you do?" You can break the ecosystem, but we don't wanna... |
**Rebecca Turner:** And they keep asking for more... |
**Kat Marchán:** I know, it's like, "Can you stop?" \[laughs\] |
**Mikeal Rogers:** We're coming up on the end of the segment here, but we've talked a ton about all the reasons why you should be installing npm@5 right now, today... Because it's awesome. Is there anybody that needs to worry about installing npm@5? Any kind of breaks that people might be reliant on out there that you ... |
**Kat Marchán:** It's still on at next, so everybody should not get it today because it's a pre-release. There are known issues; we are tracking those and fixing those as fast as we can. As we said, we have a lot of users, we have a lot of very creative users, who really do their own artisanal, bespoke module setups an... |
As with any major release of a tool this core, I would say that you try it, you see how it works for your setup. It might work very work very well for your setup, or there might be things that still need updating. If there are things that still need updating, let us know, we'll get to that. But this is just something t... |
**Rebecca Turner:** As far as things that we intentionally broke - the breaking changes of npm@5, most of those are things like the save by default and the lockfile, and the fact that output is no longer five miles long. I like that one... That one's nice. We have a little summary now. |
**Kat Marchán:** Yeah... Apart from people relying on things that they really shouldn't have been relying on, like very specific parts of the ouput, there's not a lot that will change, especially not for consumers of packages. A lot of this is mostly on the developer end. |
**Alex Sexton:** If you currently have a shrinkwrap, do you need to generate a new shrinkwrap with 5? |
**Kat Marchán:** No. We will probably -- in the case of most shrinkwraps; I don't know if all shrinkwraps in existence... But we will update that on run. One thing to note is that npm-shrinkwrap and package-lock.json are the same format. The main difference is that npm-shrinkwrap is publishable and package-lock is not.... |
The thing to note is if you keep it called npm-shrinkwrap, older versions of npm down to like npm@2 will be able to install it; not npm@1, because of scope packages, but all the way down to 2 you should be able to get identical trees pretty much. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Awesome. |
**Alex Sexton:** That's cool, yeah. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Yeah, thanks for coming on, this has been fantastic. When we come back, we are gonna get into Sheetsee with Jessica Lord. |
**Break:** \[28:10\] |
**Rachel White:** We're back with Jessica Lord and we're gonna talk about Sheetsee. Sheetsee is a really cool library that lets you use Google Spreadsheets for visualizing info, and it's really awesome. Jessica, you should tell us about it better than I can. |
**Jessica Lord:** \[laughs\] Well, I think you've done a really great job, because that's basically it. It's a really small library to build quick sites with data from Google Spreadsheets. Basically, you're using a Google Spreadsheet as your backend database. That's awesome because people can share it; there's no dev e... |
Every time someone is visiting your site, it's hitting the spreadsheet and getting the latest from the spreadsheet. All you have to do is edit the spreadsheet. It lets you do tables and maps. |
**Rachel White:** That's awesome. What made you wanna make this? |
**Jessica Lord:** This came out of my Code for America project that I did. Code for America is a non-profit based in San Francisco that pairs designers, developers and civic people with city governments to build open source software for them. I did that fellowship; I had come from the city of Boston previously, and I w... |
I started building it out that year, and it started off as a bunch of JavaScript built into a Wordpress theme. Then when the fellowship year was over, I got a grant from Mozilla OpenNews, which is a branch of the Mozilla Foundation that focuses on open source tools for journalism. I got a CodeSprint grant from them to ... |
**Rachel White:** \[31:57\] Yay! That's awesome. I like that I'm saying "Yay!" What are some cool uses that you've seen people use Sheetsee for? |
**Jessica Lord:** People have done it for meetups and schedules... Not everyone tells me what they do. Really, I have no idea what people are doing with it unless they specifically go out of their way to show me. But what is also cool about it is you can use it with GitHub Pages, which is GitHub's free hosting service.... |
Earlier this year in January I tried to make a site myself where I thought that I was gonna keep up with all the things that Trump was doing, and I was gonna make a database of articles and label them by offence, and... |
**Rachel White:** But there's too many and you found a limit for Google Docs... \[laughter\] |
**Jessica Lord:** Yeah, it snowballed really fast and it was just too much work for a person who's not a journalist or a report full-time to be doing. But somebody forked that site and then made a site for like important buildings in Baltimore. \[laughs\] |
**Rachel White:** That's cool. That's helpful if you're in Baltimore. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Totally. I've actually used Sheetsee a bunch of times. The use case that I always use it for is like okay, I have just a static website that displays some data, and then I have people that need to add data to it that are not gonna use GitHub. I don't wanna set up a CMS or a database or manage access ... |
**Alex Sexton:** It sounds like a good way to internationalize a website... Just swap out the sheet. |
**Jessica Lord:** Oh, yeah...! That's a really good idea. |
**Alex Sexton:** Or swap out the column, I guess, so you have the English on the left, and then every column is the translation for a different language. I do a lot of that... I've actually seen that in practice. Not with Sheetsee, but I've seen people use spreadsheets... It'd be nifty to kind of just connect it direct... |
**Jessica Lord:** Yeah, that's a really good idea. I haven't done this, but you could even just use your spreadsheet as a settings page to just generate a site. Your spreadsheet could have columns and rows to say what color the page should be, what the header should be, and that kind of thing. If you connect the site t... |
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