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I think anyone's a potentially good listener, I don't think we're precluding too many people. Also, you've heard me talk for the last hour, so you have a certain type of person to be able to fully enjoy my mumbles. \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I think you're great. We've teased on the call with Mikeal - which listeners will be able to go back and listen to - about putting out the pilot episode you all recorded, which I felt was really great. Actually, I was excited about the show, but once I heard that pilot between the three of y'all and... |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, I didn't know that plan was to not out that out, so there you go... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, news to you... Surprise, we might ship it. \[laughter\] |
**Alex Sexton:** Oh no, the opposite is what I've said - I didn't know the plan wasn't... I thought that was going to go out, so you should ship it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. So you're surprised that we might actually do what you already thought we were gonna do in the first place. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, Alex, I'm excited, man. Thank you so much for this time today to kind of kick off things for you and just share your portion of the story as you bring to this show. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. |
**Alex Sexton:** Yeah, I appreciate you having me. |
• Introduction to JS Party podcast |
• Background of Mikeal Rogers and his experience with JavaScript and Node.js |
• Mikeal's history with web development, starting from working at Mozilla and learning JavaScript by "tearing apart" the web platform |
• His work on Windmill and its similarities to Selenium |
• Comparison of Python vs. Node.js performance, including writing an HTTP proxy in both languages |
• Discussion of Node.js's early days, its limitations, and how Mikeal became involved in the community |
• The history of Node.js and the io.js fork |
• Mikeal Rogers' role in leading the io.js effort and merging with Node.js |
• The growth and scaling of the Node.js community since the merge |
• Mikeal's transition from developer to administrative leader within the Foundation |
• The creation and goals of JS Party, a podcast about JavaScript and the web platform |
• Exploring the expansion of the web platform into IoT, mobile, and desktop applications |
• Conceptualizing a podcast that balances fun and substance on JavaScript topics |
• Rationale behind choosing "JS Party" as the name for the podcast |
• Panel discussion format to facilitate differing opinions and respectful debate |
• Introduction of panelists Alex Sexton and Rachel White, with their unique perspectives and expertise |
• Discussion of Rachel's background in IoT and her humorous approach to sharing her experiences |
• Goal of creating a inclusive show that appeals to front-end developers, CSS designers, and JavaScript programmers |
• Expectation of weekly topics and discussions in podcast |
• Addressing topical web news and announcements |
• Explaining complex web technologies from the ground up |
• Identifying role of listeners: web developers, tech professionals using web technologies |
• Community involvement and feedback for iteration and improvement |
• Live show schedule and ways to access the podcast |
• Discussion of music played during the podcast |
• Introduction and setup of a soundboard for future live shows |
• Community engagement and question-asking methods |
• Plans for future episodes and show development |
• Launching of JS Party podcast and promotion of upcoming content |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Alright, we've got a fun thing happening here - a new show, JS Party... |
**Jerod Santo:** Party time... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's a party every day. It's a party every Friday. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's gonna be a party every Friday. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** But JavaScript... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You're hearing Jerod Santo (managing editor) and Mikeal Rogers, host of RFC, and now JS Party. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Welcome. |
**Jerod Santo:** We are. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Launching a new show, it's cool to have a few in the feed already, so if you've just come to this brand new, you may have listened to it live... We may be several months down the road and you're coming back and you're listening to episode one for the first time, and you wanna know who's behind this,... |
Mikeal, maybe the easiest way is to help people understand who you are, maybe your credential. People that come to this show, what should they know about you? |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Sure, yeah. Well, I won't get into the whole thing because that'd take too long, but I guess I'll just get into my history of the web. I didn't really start writing a lot of JavaScript and working with web stuff until I worked at Mozilla and started working on the platform. So in this really weird wa... |
One, because I have a networking background, so I really loved the non-blocking aspects of it; I loved how close I felt to the network layer with it, but also it was just so nice to be working with JavaScript in the web platform and on the backend. |
This was like the first week of Node being released, that I got really into it. I literally told people at Mozilla that I was working for and writing predominantly Python and JavaScript that I was no longer going to write Python anymore. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You were that bullish on it, huh? |
**Mikeal Rogers:** Oh, yeah... I mean, first of all, I had spent maybe four years working on a project called Windmill, which was very similar to Selenium, except we had figured out how to do a lot of cross-domain stuff before they did, and rather than being in a privileged environment, I wrote this really insane HTTP ... |
I was doing everything that you could do to make something fast in Python, and to make it killable when you hit Ctrl+C, as well. I had alternative versions of most of the standard library, I was digging into the guts of how you do iterative responses - what we now call streams, but what then was kind of like a generato... |
**Jerod Santo:** So were you using Python Twisted in the evented tools, so that \[unintelligible 00:03:52.21\] |
**Mikeal Rogers:** \[03:58\] So I had used Twisted. I worked for the Open Source Applications Foundation on a project called Chandler, and that was using Twisted... And there was an early version of Windmill where I tried to use Twisted, but in that environment it wasn't that big of a wind, compared to just using WSJI ... |
In the Mozilla stuff that I was using, I was also using Asyncore, which is another non-blocking library -- not as bulky as Twisted, but also much buggier than Twisted, and it comes with the standard library, so you know it's terrible. \[laughter\] So I had done all the things that you could do to make Python programs f... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow. |
**Mikeal Rogers:** So when Node first came out, the weekend right after Jan Lehnardt said, "Has anybody written an HTTP proxy in this thing?" and I was like... That Node thing looked cool; I wanted to learn it, it's the weekend - why don't I write an HTTP proxy? I know how to do that. This was when Node still had this ... |
So I got this proxy up. When I ran it, I was really kind of blow away. First of all, when I hit Ctrl+C, it would just die every time. You have no idea... |
**Jerod Santo:** Little things... |
**Mikeal Rogers:** After writing Python for like five years every day, writing a program and hitting Ctrl+C and having it consistently end - I can't describe to you how great it feels, how warm in your tummy you get when that happens. So that was one thing... And two, it was faster than that Python proxy that I had wri... |
So at that point, for the things that I was using Python for, it was just so clear that this was a better way to do that, and that this had a lot more longevity. I mean, this is just starting our and it's already better. If I can get involved right now, I can make sure that it stays better. |
Also, when I first got involved in the community and started with Ryan and all these early people, a lot of my frustrations with the Python community -- and I think that this was probably the same among a bunch of communities... But all of these languages that had hit a lot of growth and traction and gotten a lot of ne... |
So there wasn't a very strong focus on being very good at parallelization, actually parallelizing I/O tasks... So not thinking about threads, and stuff like that. Anyway... I really felt like the Python core community wasn't listening to what people actually needed to do with it, and when I started to get involved in N... |
\[08:01\] Everybody had their head on straight in the early days, and I felt like it was a very good opportunity for me... At that point I'd been working in open source nonprofits for four years straight. I was one of the first people to try and get people using GitHub inside of Mozilla, I had a lot of thoughts about b... |
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