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**Jerod Santo:** You have been. But if you were today, when you read the relicense, you would have been pro-Elastic? This would not have concerned you, or offended you, or changed the way you looked at Elasticsearch? |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Well, I think it's sad that they have to do it, that they have to relicense, that they feel like they need to... And that's what makes me think that their move is kind of okay, in a way; because I will still support them and I would rather use them than the fork created by Amazon. |
**Jerod Santo:** So the fork still exists under the new fork, which is created by Amazon, and trying to carry on from that point forward... It still exists under the previous license. But you would continue with Elastic, versus the Elasticsearch and Kibana forks that are run by AWS now? |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Exactly. And that's simply because I believe in their vision, or I believe in their product, and I think Amazon is going to have a hard time keeping up. Or maybe they won't, I'm not sure. |
**Jerod Santo:** Time will tell on that front. |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Time will tell, of course. But the same goes with MongoDB, and their DocumentDB, I guess. I still think MongoDB is a superior choice, just because it's their project and their vision. |
**Jerod Santo:** So you're not an open source purist then. |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Not at all, no. |
**Jerod Santo:** No. More pragmatic. More about free, and open, and available... Have you thought about any of the other licenses, like the source available licenses? Are you cool with that, and these other things, like business source licensing? Surely, these are things that you've read about being in the open source ... |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Yeah, I think it's cool. Every license is their own choice. If you want to license your work in a certain way, it's your choice. And if you want to share your work with others, that's just a positive thing. I feel in this case Amazon is hurting the possibility to do that. |
**Jerod Santo:** Awesome. Any other thoughts? |
**Markus Stenqvist:** No, I think people that are on Amazon's side should maybe read the article from Frederic Lardinois... |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Markus Stenqvist:** ...which is on Tech Crunch, and it's called "AWS gives open source the middle finger." I think that's an article that sums up my views pretty well. |
**Jerod Santo:** Awesome. Hand that off to me and we will include it in the show notes for everybody. |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Yeah, sure. |
**Jerod Santo:** I appreciate you hopping on and sharing your opinion with us. |
**Markus Stenqvist:** Yeah, thank you. |
• Shawn Wang's background in finance and his realization that tech is where value is being created |
• His decision to change careers at 30 and learn to code through FreeCodeCamp and Full Stack Academy |
• His experience as a frontend developer at Two Sigma and later as a dev rel at Netlify |
• His current role as head of developer experience at Temporal |
• The concept of "paying it back" by financially supporting FreeCodeCamp and other coding education initiatives |
• The controversy surrounding Lambda School and Income Share Agreements (ISAs) |
• The idea of innovation and potential pitfalls in the industry of teaching people to code and changing careers. |
• Shawn Wang's experience with learning to code and his reflection on it in "No zero days. My path to learning to code" |
• The concept of "Learning in Public" and how it can be more effective than learning in private |
• How sharing knowledge and expertise in public can lead to a viral feedback loop, improved reputation, and better mentorship |
• The benefits of having skin in the game and being open to criticism and feedback |
• The difference between a zero-sum and positive-sum industry, and how tech fits into the latter category |
• The importance of separating one's identity from their work and being open to growth and improvement |
• The concept of "learning in public" and its benefits in the finance industry |
• Cathie Wood and Ark Invest's approach to transparency in their investment decisions |
• The shift towards more open and public approaches to finance and investing |
• The use of social media and online platforms to leverage "learning in public" and build a personal brand |
• Examples of how individuals can "learn in public" through various formats, such as blogging, drawing, and creating educational content |
• The idea of "learning exhaust" and how it can be a helpful byproduct of the learning process |
• The importance of sharing knowledge and experiences in a public setting to facilitate learning and growth |
• The importance of having a "second brain" to organize and store knowledge |
• Creating a knowledge repository as a developer, such as a cheatsheet for React and TypeScript |
• The API economy and its impact on developers and human expertise |
• The dark side of the API economy, including the potential for diminishing human expertise and labor |
• The current state of JAMstack adoption, including its move into the mainstream and the rise of serverless rendering technologies |
• Discussion of server-side rendering and caching techniques |
• Netlify's approach to distributed persistent rendering (DPR) and storing cache in Git |
• Criticism of the API economy and its potential for lock-in and vendor dependence |
• Concerns about the commoditization of human labor under the API economy |
• Discussion of the class system developing between "above the API" developers and "below the API" workers |
• Debate about whether the dark side of the API economy is a significant problem or a natural consequence of technological progress |
• The path to skill is essential for upward mobility |
• Traditional career paths are being disrupted by technology and automation |
• The distinction between "above" and "below" the API (application programming interface) is being used to describe the division between those who control machines and those who are controlled by machines |
• The lack of upward mobility and career progression in certain industries is a concern |
• Alternative paths and opportunities are being created, such as starting a business or becoming a founder |
• The analogy of the "kanban board" is used to describe the division between those who are controlled by systems and those who control systems |
• Cloudflare's approach to becoming a major cloud provider is seen as a disruption to traditional players like AWS and Azure |
• Cloudflare's R2 service as a strategic move to surround and challenge AWS S3 |
• Cloudflare's ability to make money from R2 due to established peering agreements and low cost structure |
• Comparison of Cloudflare's strategy to the game of Go, with Cloudflare claiming territory and AWS being surrounded |
• Potential paths for Cloudflare: stealing AWS customers or AWS slashing prices to compete |
• Cloudflare's expanding suite of cloud services, including compute, data storage, and object storage |
• Shawn Wang's analogy of winning Go by claiming territory and suffocating the opponent, applied to the cloud market |
• Cloudflare's market cap and relative size compared to AWS. |
• Cloudflare's R2 object storage service is significantly smaller in market cap than AWS, but could still have a major impact on Amazon's bottom line if it gains significant traction. |
• Shawn Wang believes that there is a "career ceiling" for frontend developers, as many high-level engineering positions are held by backend developers. |
• Wang attributes this to an industry bias that views frontend development as less valuable than backend development, and notes that his own career transition from frontend to backend was motivated by a desire to increase his earning potential. |
• The conversation also touches on the idea that frontend developers may have more opportunities to move into product design and architecture roles, rather than traditional engineering positions. |
• Discussion of frontend vs backend engineering disciplines and potential biases |
• Shawn Wang's experience with serverless computing and its limitations, particularly with long-running jobs |
• Development of the Temporal project, a workflow management system for long-running jobs |
• Temporal's features, including database scheduling and queuing, and its ability to run in multiple clouds |
• Shawn Wang's prediction of Temporal's future success and potential impact on cloud computing |
• Temporal's focus is on solving long-running job and microservice orchestration issues, not multi-cloud strategy. |
• Microservices and serverless environments are increasing in complexity, requiring better management. |
• Cloudflare's free CDN has made CDNs undervalued, but database companies successfully monetize storage and bandwidth. |
• Temporal has a strong product-market fit and customer adoption, including Stripe. |
• Shawn Wang encourages developers to learn in public and share their thoughts and experiences. |
**Jerod Santo:** So swyx, we have been tracking your work for years; well, you've been Learning in Public for years, so I've been (I guess) watching you learn, but we've never had you on the show, so welcome to The Changelog. |
**Shawn Wang:** Thank you. Long-time listener, first-time guest, I guess... \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
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