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**Amal Hussein:** Yeah, you should. |
**Jerod Santo:** Thanks for coming on the show, we really appreciate it. We'll talk to you guys next time. |
• History of Neovim and its creation |
• Reason for Neovim's existence, specifically asynchronous job support |
• Similarities and differences between Neovim and Vim |
• Backwards-compatibility and shared codebase |
• TJ DeVries' explanation of the project's branching point and evolution |
• Nick Nisi's experience with Neovim and its advantages over Vim |
• Jerod Santo's experience with Neovim and its similarity to Vim |
• Development of Vim and Neovim's async capabilities and their differences |
• Debate on whether Neovim's development spurred Vim's improvement or if it was simply a natural progression |
• API and implementation differences between Vim and Neovim, particularly with async jobs and floating windows |
• Efforts to create shared code and plugins to ease development for both Vim and Neovim |
• Trend of shared codebases and patch porting between Vim and Neovim |
• Discussion of Vimscript and its limitations compared to other scripting languages like Lua |
• Emacs has its own programming language, Emacs Lisp, which is designed to be a programming language and allows users to rewrite parts of the editor. |
• Vim was designed as a text editor and its configuration language, Vimscript, was added later and is considered a mess. |
• Neovim chose Lua as its configuration language due to its embedability, size, portability, and stability. |
• Lua is designed for embedding in other languages and provides a safe and easy way to script and extend applications. |
• Neovim's use of Lua has made it more accessible and exciting for users, including those with previous experience with the language. |
• The Lua configuration in Neovim is optional and users can still use Vimscript to configure the editor. |
• Users can choose to convert their Vimscript configuration to Lua, which can result in a more powerful and elegant configuration. |
• Discussion of writing configuration files in Vimscript versus Lua |
• Comparison of Vimscript and Lua for scripting editor features |
• Benefits and drawbacks of using Lua for configuration |
• Portability and translation of configurations between Vimscript and Lua |
• Future of Vim and Neovim configuration and plugin development |
• Implications of Neovim-exclusive plugins on the Vim community |
• Efforts to keep Vim and Neovim configuration and plugin development aligned |
• LuaJIT installation and native C module linking for faster sorting |
• Coexistence and compatibility of Neovim and Vim |
• Frustration with community behavior regarding Neovim's fork of Vim |
• Release of Neovim 0.5 with significant updates, including LSP and tree-sitter |
• Language Server Protocol (LSP) explanation and its benefits |
• LSP's purpose and functionality in communicating language smarts between editors and servers |
• LSP (Language Server Protocol) is a standard way for language tools and editor tool makers to interact with each other. |
• The protocol allows for customizability and flexibility in how language tools and editors interact. |
• LSP can be used with various programming languages, including Go, Python, and TypeScript. |
• Neovim's LSP client is written in Lua and is designed to be an interface between the editor and the language server. |
• The language server can be a separate executable or a binary on the machine, and can communicate with Neovim over STDIN/STDOUT or TCP. |
• To add support for a new language, a developer would need to provide their own LSP or plug in an existing one, rather than modifying Neovim's code. |
• Tree-sitter is a separate technology that deals with a single file and its syntax, whereas LSP operates on a project-wide level. |
• Tree-sitter is built into Neovim, and can be used for things like syntax highlighting and code completion. |
• Tree-sitter is a library for writing error-recovering incremental parsers, useful for text editors |
• Tree-sitter is incremental, meaning it doesn't reparse the entire file on every keystroke |
• Tree-sitter allows for syntax highlighting and other features, but its most exciting aspect is its ability to handle multiple languages and parse them incrementally |
• Tree-sitter is a separate project from Neovim, but is embedded inside it |
• Neovim tree-sitter is a plugin that makes it easier to use tree-sitter in Neovim |
• Tree-sitter is driving innovation in Neovim plugins, enabling features beyond just syntax highlighting |
• Examples of tree-sitter's capabilities include detecting the current language and updating comment strings accordingly |
• Tree-sitter queries can be used to highlight specific code blocks as if they were written in a different language |
• LuaSnip plugin can run Lua code to generate text snippets |
• Telescope is a fuzzy finder written in Lua that is highly customizable and extensible |
• Telescope is not yet as fast as fzf for very large searches, but is nearing completion of a performance-boosting PR |
• Using both fzf and Telescope may be a good approach for different use cases |
• Neovim's UI consistency and user experience |
• Telescope's beautiful UI and consistency with Neovim's theme |
• Enthusiasm around Neovim's 0.5 release and its capabilities |
• Community engagement and involvement with Neovim |
• Joining the Neovim chat (on Element, Matrix, Gitter, or IRC) to ask questions and get involved |
• Contributing to Neovim through issues and PRs, and getting help from the community |
• Appreciation for user feedback and support for open-source software maintainers |
**Jerod Santo:** We are back for a follow-up episode to episode 450 on Vim. First of all, I wanna say that I appreciate all of the positive feedback around our Vim episode. We've put a lot of work into that, and it sounds like everybody enjoyed it. We're happy to hear that. And one of the things that we've heard over a... |
**TJ DeVries:** Yeah, it's my pleasure. Really excited to chat and just explore some fun topics together. |
**Jerod Santo:** We are excited too, and I have with me not Adam Stack - it is Nick Nisi, my co-patriot at JS Party. Nick, welcome to the Changelog. |
**Nick Nisi:** Hoy-hoy. I'm happy to be here. Excited to talk about Neovim. And just for the record, it wasn't just me hounding Jerod to get a Neovim episode. |
**Jerod Santo:** That wasn't your bot just telling me over and over again? |
**Nick Nisi:** I can't confirm or deny that, but it wasn't me specifically... |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, if you know JS Party, you know Nick is often trying to turn it into Vim party, and he brings up Vim whenever he has opportunity, and he has been for a little while a Neovim user. How long have you been on Neovim, Nick? |
**Nick Nisi:** It's been a couple years. But I'm a recent convert to the Neovim 0.5/Lua lifestyle, that I'm excited to talk about today. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[04:00\] I will also confess that after our Vim episode and our Modern Unix Tooling episode I've been reinvigorated, and I installed Neovim. I threw away my vimconfig and I'm doing Survivor-style "Which configs make it into the new config?" game, line by line, and I'm having lots of fun. I feel like a... |
So I was on Sublime text for years, I switched to VS Code, and I always had Vim open in a shell, and I would use it on servers, and I would use it kind of casually. As you know from that episode, I always use vim mode whenever available, but I was not using it full-time as my programming editor until a few weeks ago...... |
**TJ DeVries:** Yeah, so I think the main person who first started it was Thiago de Arruda on GitHub. And it is probably about ten years ago; I don't remember the exact date. The main thing that happened was de Arruda was really interested in getting some of the ability to run external jobs asynchronously from within V... |
**Nick Nisi:** You didn't have an old Solaris machine to test it on? |
**TJ DeVries:** Right, he did not make any patches that worked there. So basically at that point de Arruda was kind of like "Well, I don't want to necessarily have to support those. I wanna do different things that can work differently, and I wanna push forward in some of these areas that might make us end up in a plac... |
**Jerod Santo:** Exactly how different is it? |
**TJ DeVries:** This is a pretty common misconception, that Vim and Neovim are very, very, very different. Vim and Neovim still share much of the same codebase. Neovim still ports patches from Vim, all the time. We have some contributors, especially like Jan Lazo, who in the last 0.5 release helped to get us to over 1,... |
\[08:05\] There's some things that are removed from Neovim that are in Vim. For example, Neovim doesn't ship with a GUI by default, like Gvim. Neovim removed all of the code that tightly coupled it to a GUI application, and instead implements GUIs over RPC. So that's an example of like if you're expecting to be able to... |
**Jerod Santo:** That would be my experience so far - I haven't noticed a difference in just regular text editing. I could just alias it and never notice. Now, once I've started configuring it and trying to do some more advanced things, you start to see where the seams are, where the differences are. Go ahead, Nick - w... |
**Nick Nisi:** I was gonna say something similar in that when I started using it I actually started using it I think for the same reason that it might have been created, now that I'm hearing that... And that's because I heard about this async job support... And I had just gotten into configuring linting, and things lik... |
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