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**Jerod Santo:** Like which lines you've added, which ones you've modified... |
**Suz Hinton:** Exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...which ones are staged. Stuff like that. Cool. |
**Suz Hinton:** So I want something really minimal... A lot of people really love Vim Fugitive, which is this kind of kitchen sink Git plugin... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. It's like, never leave Vim, and do all the Git things inside of Vim. |
**Suz Hinton:** Yeah, it's amazing. And a lot of people really love that paradigm of "never leave Vim", and I get it, because if your hands are on the keyboard the whole time and you're not switching contexts, it is actually a really nice feeling. But it's just too heavy, and I can't justify... I still like to have a s... |
**Jerod Santo:** Same. |
**Suz Hinton:** So I just use Gitgutter, because it's minimal and it gives me exactly the information that I wanna know on the fly, which is very helpful to me. And I use [Ctrl+P](https://github.com/ctrlpvim/ctrlp.vim) as my fuzzy search, which admittedly is not super-performant in really large codebases, but it works ... |
And then at work I basically run [Ale](https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale), which pokes into language engines and allows you to do things like linting within Vim, and highlighting certain lines that are wrong and having explanations as to why, and order-formatting and that kind of thing. So Vim Ale is fantastic, bec... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[20:16\] If Suz's non-work setup sound minimal to you, you might describe Gary's as barebones. |
**Gary Bernhardt:** I do use a few plugins, but I'm also firmly on the side of avoiding them as much as you can, especially as a beginner. What you don't wanna do is start with 50 Vim plugins, because then you're not learning Vim, you're learning this mess of plugins that doesn't match any other given Vim user. |
Today I use exactly eight plugins. Six of those are for language support, so very basic stuff like syntax highlighting, showing type errors in TypeScript, that kind of stuff. One of them is my color scheme, so - pretty boring... And then the eighth one is my one indulgence, which is a plugin that slightly tweaks the wa... |
The one plugin that I would recommend even a brand new Vim user use is some kind of fuzzy file finder. [Fzf](https://github.com/junegunn/fzf.vim) is a very popular one, very widely supported; it'll be easy to get support. I use one called [Selecta](https://github.com/garybernhardt/selecta), that I wrote myself. You can... |
**Jerod Santo:** Gary mentioned his vimrc. If you're not familiar, that's Vim's configuration file, which people also tweak to the hilt and often share online for others to take as inspiration, or sometimes copy whole cloth. |
**Gary Bernhardt:** My vimrc has a section titled basic editing configuration, and if you're just starting and you want a slightly more modern take on vimconfig, you could copy just that section. Not my whole vimrc. You don't want the whole thing, but just the basic editing configuration. that will change some of the d... |
**Julia Evans:** I don't actually know what setting in my vimrc does this, but I know that when I open a file, it goes to where I was the last time I was in that file; it jumps to my last position, and I really love that. |
**Jerod Santo:** Even the column and the line? |
**Julia Evans:** I think the column... Definitely the line, and maybe... The column - I'm not so bothered, honestly, even if it's not. |
**Jerod Santo:** Sure. |
**Julia Evans:** But yeah, definitely at least the line. And I just love that feeling of like - if I accidentally close a file, and I open it, I can just undo, even if I already closed the editor. |
**Jerod Santo:** Is your vimrc out there, so we can link it? |
**Julia Evans:** It's out there, yeah. It's really extremely based on this thing called basic.vim, which I would probably recommend using over my vimrc... Because mine mostly has extra garbage in it, in addition to what's in there. I think basic .vim is good, and my stuff just has some nonsense that I added in there. |
**Jerod Santo:** Many Vim users will lug their must-have plugins and their personalized config with them to every machine they use, but that desire to have your Vim setup with you wherever you go extends even further. Vim mode is a thing. This is where other editors, productivity programs and web apps mirror Vim's comm... |
**Gary Bernhardt:** I used a couple of Emacs Vim minor modes in the old times, so I learned their strengths and weaknesses. I've used some kind of browser Vim thing a while back. It was, I think, before Vimium. I found it to be kind of buggy, because the browser was never designed to do that... And I've tried Vim emula... |
\[24:19\] Now, with that said, a good Vim emulation will get you the ergonomic benefits of Vim, which I think are the most important benefits. You will have less risk to your hands and your wrists. And if you don't know Vim proper, then you can use an emulation and get those benefits and not be frustrated. But if you a... |
And when you think about what Vim is, it makes sense that the emulations are always lacking, because Vim is about 400,000 lines of C code. I checked before we started recording... And it was written over three decades. And then there's all the Vimscript on top of that. That is a lot of code. It's not just a couple doze... |
So those couple dozen normal mode commands will get you a lot of the ergonomic benefit, but still, it's not Vim... And the better you know Vim, the less that's gonna satisfy you. |
**Suz Hinton:** I know that's built into Facebook and built into Twitter, because it's built by nerds... You can actually use J and K to flip through tweets and posts... That's cool. I already know how to use voiceover on Mac, the screenreader, because I am a big accessibility advocate, and that to me is just how I wri... |
VS Code feels really bad in Vim mode for me, I don't know why. I think it's just because it's just nowhere near as responsive. So you're hitting J/K and you're just like "It doesn't feel the same." It feels like someone's kind of pretending and pulling the ropes behind the scenes. So I kind of just abandoned that, and ... |
**Julia Evans:** I've used Vim mode... I think I've used it in VS Code, I've used it in Atom, I've used it in Sublime, I've used it in IntelliJ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, wow. |
**Julia Evans:** ...and I've found it fine. Because I don't know how to type otherwise. It doesn't work for me. \[laughter\] So when I use those editors, the first thing I do is I install Vim mode. I liked it. |
One thing that I find really charming about Vim is - in my email, I can do J and K to go between my emails. You find little tiny bits of Vim support in lots of places; it feels like you're in a secret club... |
**Jerod Santo:** Totally. |
**Julia Evans:** Like in the "Vim Club". Because you just like try it out, and then it works, and you're like "Oh, wow, thank you, Fastmail! That's nice. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's funny, because that's actually a prerequisite for me using a mail app, is that kind of nav... Because once (I think) Gmail did it - maybe not first, but it was the first place I felt it - I was like, "Oh, I can actually just use Vim navigation to navigate." |
**Julia Evans:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** And then I wanted to use -- although I hate Gmail's interface altogether, but I like that aspect of it. I wanna use a native Mac client or something, so the built-in mail app for Mac can't get it done... |
**Julia Evans:** Oh, no. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...which makes sense, macOS-style things... So I go shopping for these other things, and it's the first thing I test - can I use J and K to go up and down a list? No? Okay, you're not gonna be my mail client. \[laughs\] |
**Julia Evans:** Cancel. |
**Jerod Santo:** So I'm with you. |
**Julia Evans:** And I feel like, like Remember the Milk supported it back in the day. I mean, Remember the Milk is still around, but I feel like once I used it and it supported it, I was like "Oh, wow...!" |
**Jerod Santo:** It is kind of like an insider nerd club. You're like "Oh, you're one of us." Whoever writes this is one of us, and I like this software a little bit more because they like it. That's cool. |
**Drew Neil:** One place where I definitely expect to have Vim(ish) key bindings is in Gmail, actually. You can use J and K to navigate up and down in your inbox. I think it's Enter to open... Even once you're looking at the message, you can press J to go to the next message, or K to go to the previous message. (I migh... |
I was setting up a new Gmail account the other day and hotkeys weren't turned on, and I felt quite at sea without them. So that is one where I feel like I depend on them. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[28:00\] That's funny, because Julia said the exact same thing, and I'm in the exact same way... |
**Drew Neil:** Really? \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** So we're three for three on people that like Vim-style navigation in email. Any website that has it, I'm always pleasantly surprised. I'm like "Hey, they do this...!" I think Twitter even does it, although I don't really use it there. For some reason, I don't feel like a tweet has been selected. I'm ju... |
**Drew Neil:** Yeah. |
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