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[2882.18 --> 2888.66] but they are very similar systems, essentially with, you know, different function names, different |
[2888.66 --> 2895.62] syntax. And yeah, I think those surface level features are fairly unimportant. And so, |
[2895.62 --> 2902.50] you know, I think JavaScript is really the one that we should be pushing to be using to push forward |
[2902.50 --> 2908.98] kind of the needs of the world to create fast software, create software quickly, I should say. |
[2908.98 --> 2909.46] Yeah. |
[2909.46 --> 2910.66] Bet on JavaScript, basically. |
[2911.94 --> 2913.06] Bet on JavaScript. |
[2913.46 --> 2917.30] One of the things you say in your mail too, and you kind of alluded to this a little bit was |
[2918.02 --> 2922.90] in the philosophy section of the introduction, you say, among other things, Dino is a great |
[2922.90 --> 2927.70] replacement for utility scripts that may have been historically written in bash or Python. |
[2928.42 --> 2932.18] I didn't really consider this, but that's pretty interesting too, because most often I'll reach |
[2932.18 --> 2937.14] for things like bash to do different things and on a file system or not too often Python, |
[2937.14 --> 2941.54] because I'm not a Pythonista, but I've definitely used bash before and I've used things in Ruby, |
[2941.54 --> 2944.34] like make and other things like that, you know? |
[2944.34 --> 2944.74] So, so. |
[2944.98 --> 2945.30] Rake. |
[2945.30 --> 2945.70] Rake. |
[2945.70 --> 2946.02] Rake. |
[2946.02 --> 2947.94] Isn't make and rake fairly the same? |
[2947.94 --> 2949.38] Isn't rake built on make? |
[2949.38 --> 2952.02] Well, rake is based off of make, but make is not. |
[2952.02 --> 2952.42] Yeah. |
[2952.42 --> 2952.82] Yeah. |
[2952.82 --> 2953.86] You just misspoke. |
[2953.86 --> 2954.66] Rake was what you meant. |
[2954.66 --> 2955.14] My bad. |
[2955.14 --> 2956.58] Rake slash make then. |
[2956.58 --> 2957.46] Thank you for correcting me. |
[2957.46 --> 2958.02] Sure. |
[2958.02 --> 2960.98] You know, being able to do that kind of thing where, you know, you're betting on JavaScript, |
[2960.98 --> 2965.62] not too often you do those kinds of things like scripts like that with JavaScript, |
[2965.62 --> 2971.06] maybe for its lack of ability to have secure access to the runtime or, or the system |
[2971.06 --> 2972.18] and file system and whatnot. |
[2972.18 --> 2972.58] Yeah. |
[2972.58 --> 2978.02] I mean, bash is another dynamic language, you know, one that starts a sub process for |
[2978.02 --> 2983.78] every statement in your program, but generally you would use bash because it's widely available |
[2983.78 --> 2986.10] on all of the different systems that you're running on. |
[2986.10 --> 2987.62] It's very portable. |
[2987.62 --> 2988.90] It's not a great programming. |
[2988.90 --> 2991.46] I don't think anybody loves bash as a programming language. |
[2991.46 --> 2992.26] It's pretty hard. |
[2992.26 --> 2992.42] Yeah. |
[2992.42 --> 2993.22] Yeah. |
[2993.22 --> 2998.50] I regularly access documentation to confirm my syntax is correct or just car called. |
[2998.50 --> 2999.14] Just car called. |
[2999.14 --> 3000.42] That's sometimes easier. |
[3000.42 --> 3001.62] Copy and paste, you know? |
[3002.18 --> 3003.30] There's lots of it out there too. |
[3003.30 --> 3003.38] Yeah. |
[3003.38 --> 3004.18] So it makes it easy. |
[3004.18 --> 3004.58] Yeah. |
[3004.58 --> 3004.74] So it makes it easy. |
[3004.74 --> 3008.98] There's probably a subreddit somewhere where there's, you know, people who just love bash |
[3008.98 --> 3012.66] and it's like their thing, but they're a, you know, they're a rare bunch for sure. |
[3013.46 --> 3017.70] Now, like you said, if you take all of the scripting languages together, I agree with you. |
[3017.70 --> 3019.70] I've done Python, Perl, Ruby, JavaScript. |
[3019.70 --> 3024.58] The more you learn, the more you start to realize they have their own idiosyncrasies. |
[3024.58 --> 3028.74] They have their own view of the world, but they're all kind of in the same ilk. |
[3028.74 --> 3038.58] And I would tend to agree, even though Ruby's my first love, that JavaScript is the one to bet on because it's already ubiquitous. |
[3038.58 --> 3039.46] It's in the browser. |
[3039.46 --> 3043.06] It's used pervasively server-side now, thanks to Node. |
[3043.94 --> 3047.06] And it is definitely not going anywhere. |
[3047.70 --> 3052.58] So you've picked that as your place to build and to create. |
[3053.46 --> 3055.14] And you want to do this into the future. |
[3055.14 --> 3057.06] This is an ambitious, big project, right? |
[3057.06 --> 3061.90] So you've started a company around it, which is different than what you did with Node. |
[3062.54 --> 3063.66] That was a long time ago. |
[3063.80 --> 3066.88] Why don't you tell a little bit of what went down the first time when you created Node? |
[3066.88 --> 3069.24] What happened with you? |
[3069.36 --> 3071.44] I know you had a full-time job, et cetera. |
[3071.52 --> 3072.64] Things are different with your life. |
[3072.90 --> 3073.72] There's a company now. |
[3073.78 --> 3074.72] This is different than Node. |
[3075.00 --> 3077.24] Can you just compare and contrast the two situations for us? |
[3077.78 --> 3077.96] Yeah. |
[3078.22 --> 3081.90] I was much younger, obviously, when I started Node. |
[3082.18 --> 3088.02] Shortly after starting it, I took a job at Joyent where they said, come work for us. |
[3088.02 --> 3091.70] You can continue working on this project, which seemed like a great deal. |
[3091.70 --> 3097.58] And I moved from Germany to San Francisco and continued building Node. |
[3097.78 --> 3111.84] And kind of throughout 2009, 2010, first part of 2012, when it became more and more clear that Node was really a thing, Joyent sat down and made a business deal with me. |
[3111.84 --> 3120.20] And I ended up selling Node to Joyent, whatever that means when it's an MIT-licensed open-source project. |
[3120.38 --> 3125.20] But I gave them control of the project and gave them the website and whatnot. |
[3125.40 --> 3128.80] That worked out very well for myself, personally. |
[3129.16 --> 3131.94] And I'm not sure how well it worked out for Joyent, actually. |
[3132.12 --> 3133.12] For myself, it was great. |
[3133.40 --> 3140.64] I've seen some comments online that kind of paint a different picture of the situation that was exploited by Joyent or something like that. |
[3140.64 --> 3141.22] I feel that at all. |
[3141.34 --> 3142.30] Not at all the case. |
[3142.92 --> 3143.38] Well, that's good. |
[3144.02 --> 3146.04] So after you left Joyent, what did you do next? |
[3146.18 --> 3148.32] I know you're doing research and development at some point. |
[3148.44 --> 3150.12] But did you have a job after that? |
[3150.16 --> 3150.98] Did you take some time off? |
[3151.54 --> 3152.66] I took some time off. |
[3152.66 --> 3155.38] I worked on some other projects that were unsuccessful. |
[3155.80 --> 3159.46] I worked for a while at Google doing machine learning stuff. |
[3160.46 --> 3170.44] It was, I think, 2018 that my collaborator in Node, Burt Belder, who founded the company StrongLoop, |
[3170.64 --> 3174.20] was, so Burt's journey is also interesting. |
[3174.64 --> 3182.50] He was an early contributor to Node and did one of the most important refactors in Node early on. |
[3182.50 --> 3185.96] Early on, Node only worked on Mac and Linux. |
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