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**Pia Mancini:** Not a lot, to be honest. 15% is a lot, but it's also 15% only, and the Open Source Collective has one full-time person and support staff, and it's for 2,500 open source projects. Now the foundation manages suddenly a 7-million budget in a year, and it has, again, one full-time-- |
**Jerod Santo:** One person. |
**Pia Mancini:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Double that to 5,000 projects - do you still have one person, or do you have two? |
**Pia Mancini:** Yes, maybe two. |
**Jerod Santo:** So not too bad. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Two-and-a-half. |
**Pia Mancini:** \[51:44\] Two-and-a-half, yeah. \[laughter\] But you know what - the Open Collective Platform actually makes it really easy for us to manage all of these groups... So I guess it depends on how we wanna grow the hosts. For example, we started doing non-monetary asset holding for projects, we are startin... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Pia Mancini:** But as the groups grow, we are running into more and more this space where they need services for larger kind of projects. You know, legal, trademarks, things like that. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. The reason I asked is because I thought "Well, if you're getting 7% on tips, that'd be one heck of a way to scale the user base, is to go no platform fees, completely community-supported, tipped only. I don't know if that's feasible or smart, but it just seems like if you wanna be the enabler for... |
**Pia Mancini:** No, we keep that. We keep that. So for all charitable collectives, our platform fees are zero. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, okay. Cool. |
**Pia Mancini:** Yeah. It's just tips. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's forever. \[unintelligible 00:53:21.18\] |
**Pia Mancini:** It was a pandemic thing, but when we saw that it worked, we just "That's it." |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, that's awesome. I missed that part. |
**Pia Mancini:** Yeah. I agree, I think that zero is the best number for this. We haven't tried it yet in the open source space, because -- like, the charitable ecosystem is very clear. Donors are used to tipping on top, or tipping the platform, or they understand that there are admin costs involved in managing tax-ded... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Well, if it doesn't work, it's hard to roll that back, you know? |
**Pia Mancini:** It's impossible to roll it back without losing your community. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Do you think it's different because of the corporate support of open source? Like, a lot of it is corporations, whereas maybe on the charitable side I'm guessing a lot of it is individuals. But maybe I'm wrong there, too. |
**Pia Mancini:** I think it works when you have people going to the platform and using their credit card to give a donation. When you have people just wiring money to you, it doesn't work, because the platform is not -- we don't have a space to offer this. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right... |
**Pia Mancini:** There's nowhere where I can put this "Okay, do you wanna give money to the platform so we can keep offering collectives zero fees?" \[unintelligible 00:54:50.02\] because you're Google and you're sending money to a bank account... |
**Jerod Santo:** It kind of flies in the face of the funds effort, which is to make it dead simple for these corporations to do it, whereas now you're making it more complicated again by adding this tipping mechanism. |
**Pia Mancini:** Exactly, exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is that platform fee a part of the transparency ledger, so to speak? So when somebody donates, you see it was this +5%, if that's the number? |
**Pia Mancini:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...you see that in the ledger? |
**Pia Mancini:** Yeah, you see that on every transaction. If you click on any transaction, you'll see donation amount, platform fees or fiscal sponsorship fees. If they have a host, payment processor fees, and then net amount. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was gonna suggest maybe A/B testing it, versus at an individual level, or an individual collective... Maybe just A/B test, where it's like "Hey, for this transaction you show the 5% platform fee. For this next transaction, which is just maybe who knows what, the option to do a tip mechanism." So t... |
**Pia Mancini:** \[56:07\] Yeah. Or even something like "This transaction has costs for the collective. Do you wanna cover them?" and that's it. Some very simple kind of thing. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. We've done that, too. Through our shows we've donated on hosts' behalf, and ten times out of ten we're adding too to cover the platform fees for the donation. |
**Pia Mancini:** Exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Because we don't want that organization to have to pay the fee, and we're appreciative of the person's efforts with us, and we're appreciative of the organization and all the work that goes into it... So just as an act of generosity - yeah, sure. Cover the fee, whatever it is, whether it's $10, $15,... |
**Pia Mancini:** I'm gonna try it. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** There you go. |
**Pia Mancini:** I'm gonna A/B test that. I was always thinking about this from the point of view of like "I need a collective who wants to try this", but actually no, we just need to kind of randomly see -- you know, put this in front of financial contributors and... |
**Jerod Santo:** ...see what happens. |
**Pia Mancini:** Someone has to pay for us to exist in the world. It's either we take the money from the collective, or you can cover it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. And I think in most cases - every case for us, at least, in our example of usage of Open Collective or other platforms - we would wanna pay for the fee, for them to not have to incur it, so that all the money we wanna give them-- |
**Pia Mancini:** Goes to the collective. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...goes for their cause. |
**Jerod Santo:** See, it's funny, because when I've done it -- I'm maybe on the \[unintelligible 00:57:42.22\] because I always say no, because I just want my round number. Like, I'm giving $200... I don't wanna give $205, or $203,75... I like the round number, so I'll just be like "Meh..." But maybe I'm just being sel... |
**Pia Mancini:** Our A/B testing \[unintelligible 00:57:56.02\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay, so Jerod will be a zero, and I'll be a seven percenter. |
**Jerod Santo:** As long as I can round up from $200 to $250 - fine. But if it's $203.75 - like, who wants that on their ledger? I'm just a round numbers kind of guy. \[laughs\] |
**Pia Mancini:** I get that. I actually get that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I can appreciate that. |
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