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**Gerhard Lazu:** Well, first of all, you were very determined to shave this yak... \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Yes, I was. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And I'm glad that you didn't give up, until it was all done. |
**Jerod Santo:** Success, baby! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. Well, the question is, did the upgrade even fix the original URL issue? |
**Jerod Santo:** \[01:00:15.25\] No... It’s not a bug. It’s a feature. \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's the best! |
**Gerhard Lazu:** By the way, the number is 394. I checked. It’s not 393. 394. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, I’m sorry. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** That's okay. That's okay. Second of all, this reminds me of exactly what happened. You said that you had to shave a yak, and we had to get together, where I upgraded -- I've set up the new version of our Kubernetes deployment... And it's amazing how I was shaving a similar yak. |
You know how you do an upgrade of Kubernetes, like from 1.20 to 1.21, and then you think, "Hmm, maybe I should upgrade Ingress NGINX. Or even better, "I should replace it with Traefik." Why? Because then we don't have a cert manager. Excellent. So, Traefik and take care of all of that. Great. |
What about external DNS? Let's do that as well. What about Honeycomb agent? Let’s do that as well. What about Grafana agent? Oh, crap. They broke something... \[laughter\] So maybe try and figure out what the config is. And before you know it, like two days, like three days, whatever, you say like, "No, no, this is jus... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yes. Somewhere in there I completely lost the thread, you know? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah... It feels necessary as you keep biting more off though, right? As you go deeper into the yak shave. I mean, I guess this is an onion analogy more than a shave, I guess... Every new hair you shave away -- I don't know how to describe... Like, you just have to go further, you know what I mean? ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I'm wondering, how much actual work happens like this? Really valuable work, like upgrades, fixes, refactorings... Because you start somewhere, and rather than doing the bare minimum, you say "Well, I'm going to do a little bit more, and a little bit more..." and before you know it, you're like a week... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. It was not even on my agenda. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I wonder as well, because that's the state of flow, right? You can get through that yak shave, probably, because of a state of flow. Was this a sustained session, Jerod, or was it multiple sessions? |
**Jerod Santo:** This was all one session. This is basically took my afternoon that I would have otherwise spent finishing that cloud uploads thing. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Did you plan to spend the amount of time that you spent? So did you consume the time you desired to spend, or did you consume more? |
**Jerod Santo:** Way more. I did not want to rewrite that meta module at all. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. This is my point then. So you want to do it in one session, you were in a state of flow, despite your aim, so to speak, being off... You shaved the yak, you didn't do what you intended to. However, you probably did as much work as you could have done in eight hours, or whatever number - some ... |
Speaking of new, we've got some gifts coming up. It's going to be the holiday season, Christmas... You’ve got some Christmas gift for us, Gerhard? |
**Gerhard Lazu:** I do, actually. I have four, five... We'll see how many. But a couple. More than a couple. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[01:04:03.00\] Okay. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** What I'm thinking is, I was mentioning -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Two. More than one, right? Two. |
**Jerod Santo:** More than two. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** More than three. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** More than two, okay. A couple. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** More than a few. Several. Several gifts. So I was mentioning at the beginning of the show that a lot of the episodes, when I spend time talking to the people that come on the show, there's always a background story to it. Usually, like a past story we share, we have a common past, but also I see a com... |
What that means is when we covered Crossplane, I was mentioning even during the episode that I want to make Crossplane part of our infrastructure, part of our setup. So what that looks like is managing our Kubernetes, managing our infrastructure with Crossplane. So how do we do that? What does that look like? What is t... |
So we're bringing them on board, with our story, with our Changelog story, with our setup story that's been evolving... And the mix is what makes it amazing, because we have the opportunity to try all these different tools out, show our approach, whether it's right or wrong, it doesn't matter. The point is, it's good e... |
Honeycomb is another one. We’ll have specific Honeycomb integrations. Dagger - I want to mention that as well. And that happened like over the last couple of weeks... Preparing episode 33, where a few gifts will be mentioned. Parka, I want to mention that as well. That actually happened today. In my lunch break, we wer... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I like seeing Solomon Hykes in our pull requests/comments back and forth on the Dagger stuff you're working on. I was paying attention to just that commentary. And so just one... You know, I think it's super cool that -- you know, we've been a podcast... Ship It is part of the network, but the... |
We talked to Solomon like way back early days of Docker even, when he did that first talk to announce Docker, essentially... And now to be at a place to have the right kind of infrastructure for this... What was just once a Tumblr blog, happily on WordPress at one point as well, and worked just fine. Maybe we had a ton... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** It is a journey. It's really is. And many journeys coming together. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And the little contributions that we can make to those projects, they're definitely helping us. We couldn't run the infrastructure the way we do without all the great tooling that's out there. And I wish we had more time to try it all, and to give all the feedback that we can. |
\[01:08:12.00\] I think whenever people pitch the idea or request an episode, like "We would like to have this conversation", I'm thinking, "Am I excited about this? Is this something which I would use?" If the answer is no, it doesn't mean that tool is wrong. It means I'm not into it. I wouldn't use it. It’s a no from... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I like bringing that feedback to them too, in particular Honeycomb. I love just -- or even with Dagger, and Crossplane. I think we can give that kind of feedback differently than, say, a customer would, or a drive-by user who's just on the free tier, for example, of whatever it might be. We're going... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah, and it's all those ands which are really exciting for me... So Crossplane AND Dagger. Honeycomb AND Grafana Cloud. Most people don't think like that. They think, "Competitors." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Either/or. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** No, no. It’s an AND proposition, because they all have their strengths and their weaknesses. And if you don't know what the trade-offs are, well that means that you don't know them well enough. Because there's no such tool which is just perfection. There's no such thing. It doesn't exist. So stop look... |
So Honeycomb is helping us in specific ways. Grafana Cloud is helping us in other ways, and we'll have people on the show to talk about those things, and to talk about the improvements. If you want to know what's coming up in episode 33, you can go to our changelog.com, the repo on GitHub, github.com/thechangelog. Ther... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And they’re red. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And they’re red, yes, for Christmas. Exactly. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That’s right. Red and white actually, because the text is white, and the -- |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yes. It’s not coincidental. So there's many things coming together, and Dagger is improving, because it reflects some of the feedback that we're giving. Honeycomb as well. Crossplane as well. Every single person I get to talk to, they're taking notes of what they can improve. Fredrik - it was amazing ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Precisely. Willing. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** \[01:12:21.13\] Exactly. But we’re not. We genuinely want to help. We genuinely want to promote this stuff - what works, what doesn't work, and let's make it better. So, Kaizen. |
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