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**Ben Ford:** I mean, that's gonna be very contextual compared to where you are. Let's take a few hypotheticals and thought experiments maybe. So if you're in a startup that's growing rapidly and is now lacking structure that you would need in order to scale, which happens all the time, especially nowadays as it's poss... |
So the problem that we have now is that those companies grow to a certain size, and then the internal communications protocols and structures don't keep up. So that's where I would urge people to start looking now, is to take some of the resources that I've shared, have a look at the YouTube videos... You know, take my... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** That's something which - I wanna say I was disappointed, but it was like an eye-opening moment. There's no silver bullet here. There's no set of things that you can take, apply as they are presented and you'll be successful. That's not how this works. You need to understand the principles, you need to... |
So step one, become aware of these things. Step two, maybe accept that you may want to start applying some of these things and see what stands out... And step number three, start doing it. And go through it really quickly, because guess what - you have to go through these steps over and over again, almost like an OODA ... |
**Ben Ford:** No, absolutely not. Because even if you do build this kind of internal fluency of communications - well, you're changing, your environment is changing; you're adding new people, they're coming in with their own ideas. People leave. The system changes. Even in the Second World War, when the Germans came up... |
So it's this constant cycle and constant process of -- optimization is not the right word, because that implies efficiency. But it's this constant optimizing your effectiveness for the environment. Even if you employ somebody who has done something very similar to what you're doing in your company right now, and you as... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** In other words, don't hire the expert. It's a lie. It's contextual, right? The expertise is contextual. |
**Ben Ford:** \[52:13\] It is. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** And unless that expert is willing and open-minded to change his perception and to learn with you, it's for nothing, all that expertise. You can't transplant ideas, you can't take guilds or squads or whatever you wanna call them and make them work in your company as they are. That doesn't happen, and t... |
**Ben Ford:** And not give them any money. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Exactly, yes. |
**Ben Ford:** That's a good point; expertise is still important, because -- it's like the process of evolution. Evolution only works when there's some genetic material to pull apart and put back together, and in the knowledge economy that genetic material is expertise. But the thing that we forget is that expertise is ... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Ben, this was a pleasure, a genuine pleasure. I'm seeing this as the beginning of something. I'm seeing this as a loop that will continue. I'm thinking six months from now I would love to catch up again, on the same show maybe, and see where we are then. See what we have learned, see what we have take... |
But I'm really looking forward to speaking to you again in six months, roughly. It's just a guideline. Thank you, Ben. This was great. |
**Ben Ford:** Anytime. It's been great. It's great to have you on the course, it's great to essentially share this journey of understanding with you. This conversation has been fantastic, and eye-opening, and yeah, I'm definitely up for doing another one. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Thank you, Ben. Have a nice evening, a nice day, morning, whatever it may be, and keep iterating. Keep looping. Get better. See you, everyone. |
**Ben Ford:** Thanks, everyone. Bye. |
• Presentation on Jenkins CI agents and monitoring with OpenTelemetry |
• Importance of observability in distributed systems like Jenkins |
• Akihiro Kiuchi's project on OpenTelemetry for Jenkins agents as part of Google Summer of Code |
• Use of OpenTelemetry to provide visibility into job execution, agent allocation, and communication |
• CI/CD system architecture and the blurring of lines between CI and CD |
• Importance of using open standards like OpenTelemetry for monitoring and observability in cloud-native deployment |
• Benefits of using OpenTelemetry for distributed tracing, audit, supply chain security, and cost accounting |
• Discussion on the importance of a unified view of CI/CD processes and systems |
• Dimensions in pipeline data collection and abstraction for unified vision |
• Ideal pipeline flow with OpenTelemetry integration |
• Challenges in instrumenting pipelines, such as capturing correct spans and attributes |
• Role of OpenTelemetry in helping CI/CD administrators troubleshoot complex issues |
• Importance of observability in identifying problems impacting multiple teams or organizations |
• Administrator challenges in understanding and debugging complex CI/CD pipelines |
• Caching issues in CI/CD systems and difficulties in identifying dependencies |
• Flaky tests in distributed systems and need for observability to improve confidence in changes |
• OpenTelemetry's role in providing visibility into CI/CD pipeline events, dependencies, and performance |
• Integrating OpenTelemetry with existing tools such as Jenkins and Concourse CI |
• Using Otel CLI as a wrapper for Maven builds or makefiles to gain more granularity in pipeline execution |
• Deploying Jenkins in production using Kubernetes and Helm charts or Operators |
• Configuring pipelines and agents as code, storing them in the same repository as the project code |
• Importance of testing locally on development cycle and having fragments that can be tested locally |
• Jenkins pipeline can be defined in Groovy DSL or Yaml format |
• Declarative syntax vs scripted pipelines, pros and cons of each |
• Configuring Jenkins using Kubernetes API or targeting the master node directly |
• Separating CI from CD concerns, benefits and implementation details |
• Using separate tools for CI (e.g. GitHub Actions) and CD (e.g. Argo CD) |
• GitOps approach connecting CI and CD processes |
• Decoupling deployment from integration concerns using tooling like Keelsh |
• Developing CI/CD pipelines locally with minimal code and business logic |
• Creating pipeline libraries to reuse common steps and reduce complexity |
• Standardization of CI/CD processes |
• Supply chain security in CI/CD space |
• Importance of capturing right information in bill of materials |
• OpenTelemetry instrumentation for observability and audit trails |
• Captain Obvious project for quality gate management and compliance |
• Oleg Nenashev's move to Switzerland and his work with CloudBees |
• OpenTelemetry helps improve developer velocity, reduce costs, and shorten delivery cycles by providing essential data. |
• The same view can be achieved across different systems as long as they emit OpenTelemetry events. |
• Standardization of events is needed for efficient collaboration between systems. |
• Oleg Nenashev wants to lay foundations for working groups to standardize OpenTelemetry events. |
• Continuous Delivery Foundation is already working on standardizing CD events. |
• Adoption of OpenTelemetry has been massive, and it's likely to become incubating soon in CNCF. |
• Cyrille Le Clerc shares updates on donated OpenTelemetry Maven integration and Ansible integration. |
• Oleg Nenashev announces his job change but promises continued involvement in open source and observability. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** So Akihiro Kiuchi presented Jenkins CI agents, monitoring with OpenTelemetry, and Jaeger, Zipkin and Prometheus was included. And one of the goals, or one of the reasons why he did that was to minimize the downtime and setup costs of Jenkins agents. That was one of the presentation screenshots which I... |
**Oleg Nenashev:** Yes, it's live. So it was a project within the Jenkins community, as a part of the Google Summer of Code this year. Akihiro was one of the students, and he chose observability with OpenTelemetry. Originally, the project was rather positioned towards Prometheus, but given the recent developments in th... |
\[04:27\] At the same time, Jenkins itself is a distributed system, it has agents, and actually agents might prove to be quite unstable, especially if you use multi-cloud environments, if you use various cloud provisioning and single shot agents which just die after the completion. So it's essential to have some tracin... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. So this tracing was happening on the agents, not on the Jenkins master, so that when the jobs run, there will be visibility into the jobs and into the availability of the Jenkins agents themselves. Is that right? |
**Oleg Nenashev:** Yes. |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Cyrille? |
**Cyrille Le Clerc:** Yeah. So here we have initiated an effort to provide visibility in the execution of the jobs themselves, where we were able to break down the duration of jobs on pipelines in the different states of this pipeline. Also, we were able to track the time spent to allocate build agents. But then we did... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Yeah. That's a good summary. Okay, so the talk is available online, we can go and watch it... I haven't watched it yet, but I will do it right after this, because that's basically what started this conversation. And that made me actually think specifically about OpenTelemetry in our CI/CD systems, and... |
So with this context, why would you say that it's important that we use OpenTelemetry in our CI/CD systems? Oleg, do you wanna go first? |
**Oleg Nenashev:** Yeah. So first of all, I would rather disagree with the CI and CD statement. It's a subject for Holy War. Personally, I use quite old style automation term, because CI/CD is a methodology, it might be culture, but when it comes to automation, to tools, then actually CI and CD borders are quite blurry... |
**Gerhard Lazu:** Okay. |
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