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[1319.24 --> 1322.24] Gosh, I feel like we just had all the interesting things happen at once.
[1322.24 --> 1328.14] We had graduation happen just like a few months ago, 2.11, you know, and now we're planning
[1328.14 --> 1330.30] 2.12 and 2.13.
[1330.56 --> 1334.68] So, you know, do we have anything specific beyond like some really cool releases coming
[1334.68 --> 1334.90] up?
[1335.04 --> 1335.68] I don't know.
[1335.80 --> 1339.74] A lot of what I've been focusing on recently has actually been on Boynt Cloud, which is
[1339.74 --> 1342.32] our SaaS kind of complement to Linkerd.
[1342.42 --> 1346.64] And there's a free tier so you can check it out and you can, you know, use it without having
[1346.64 --> 1349.60] to actually swipe a credit card, you know, at least at small scales.
[1349.60 --> 1353.00] And there, a lot of the exciting stuff we've been working on is how do we take all the
[1353.00 --> 1357.14] cool stuff that's in Linkerd and actually extend that out, you know, so that, you know,
[1357.20 --> 1360.38] yes, you're getting metrics, but like, can we just host those metrics for you?
[1360.66 --> 1363.84] Yes, you're getting data about which services are talking to which ones.
[1363.90 --> 1366.10] Can we draw that in a nice topology map for you?
[1366.36 --> 1367.30] Yes, you're getting MTLS.
[1367.60 --> 1370.34] Can we break down that traffic into like these different categories?
[1370.70 --> 1374.14] So there's a lot of cool stuff happening on the Boynt Cloud side.
[1374.26 --> 1378.68] But yeah, I think for Linkerd, you know, a couple more releases, we're going to keep going
[1378.68 --> 1379.92] down the path of policy.
[1380.14 --> 1384.44] The other big thing we want to focus on is mesh expansion, which means running the data
[1384.44 --> 1389.36] plane, you know, the proxies themselves, which are these ultralight Rust proxies, running
[1389.36 --> 1390.26] them outside of Kubernetes.
[1390.82 --> 1395.70] Control plane is still going to be in Kubernetes, but that way you can extend your mesh out to
[1395.70 --> 1397.60] VMs or to non-Kubernetes environments.
[1397.76 --> 1400.72] Apparently people run code outside of Kubernetes, or so I hear.
[1401.42 --> 1403.50] So there's a world outside of Kubernetes.
[1403.88 --> 1405.66] Sometimes for me, it's hard to believe as well.
[1405.86 --> 1406.06] It's scary.
[1406.06 --> 1408.60] William, this has been everything I imagined it would be.
[1409.08 --> 1410.38] Thank you very much for making the time.
[1410.52 --> 1411.16] It's been my pleasure.
[1411.36 --> 1411.66] Thank you.
[1411.74 --> 1413.80] It's been an absolute pleasure to be here.
[1413.90 --> 1414.66] Thank you for having me.
[1414.66 --> 1435.20] This episode is brought to you by our friends at LaunchDarkly, feature management for the
[1435.20 --> 1436.04] modern enterprise.
[1436.40 --> 1438.60] Power testing in production at any scale.
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[1455.78 --> 1459.30] When you're ready to release more widely, update the flag status and the changes are made
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[1466.80 --> 1468.82] Again, LaunchDarkly.com.
[1483.98 --> 1488.70] So, the first and the last time that we spoke, it was two Kubecons ago.
[1488.90 --> 1489.76] That's why I measure it.
[1489.90 --> 1492.50] And I say Kubecons, I mean Kubecon North America.
[1492.98 --> 1494.70] That was ChangeLock episode 375.
[1494.70 --> 1498.84] We had a discussion with the Prometheus core maintainers and you were one of them.
[1499.26 --> 1501.48] And that was 2019, as I mentioned.
[1501.70 --> 1504.04] So, what is new with you, Frederick, since then?
[1504.18 --> 1507.00] So, yeah, actually since 2019, a lot has happened.
[1507.62 --> 1511.50] So, I guess I can go chronologically from that point onwards.
[1512.16 --> 1518.38] So, in 2019, I actually, I did give a keynote at Kubecon in Barcelona.
[1518.38 --> 1521.44] So, that was the other Kubecon that was happening that year.
[1521.90 --> 1530.08] About the future of observability that was together with Tom, who I believe you spoke to at the same Kubecon as well.
[1530.44 --> 1537.16] So, we were talking about a couple of predictions that we felt like were going to happen to the observability space.
[1537.16 --> 1547.46] And one of my predictions was that I felt like continuous profiling was going to establish itself as an area within observability.
[1547.84 --> 1556.46] And for that keynote, I had put together a proof of concept that I very creatively called CONPROF, you know, continuous profiling.
[1556.46 --> 1564.24] And got some traction, but I never really had enough time to work on it beyond the proof of concept.
[1564.54 --> 1569.98] And, yeah, I guess just at some point, you know, the pandemic probably had some part in it.
[1570.22 --> 1575.92] Like half a year into the pandemic, I felt like there still wasn't enough being done in that space, I felt.
[1576.26 --> 1579.90] And so, I thought to myself, it's kind of now or never.
[1580.32 --> 1584.00] And I, end of last year, decided to make it my full-time job.
[1584.06 --> 1585.52] And I founded Polar Signals.
[1585.52 --> 1592.44] You know, we, I guess kind of because of the history of when I worked at CoreOS and we got acquired by Red Hat,
[1592.64 --> 1596.44] I had quite a lot of interest from investors pretty much immediately.
[1597.02 --> 1605.14] But at the same time, I didn't feel like we had explored the space enough to, you know, take on VC money immediately.
[1605.72 --> 1609.32] And, you know, raise money that we wouldn't know what to do with.
[1609.56 --> 1612.54] I guess that's just me personally, the kind of person I am.
[1612.54 --> 1616.08] And I wanted to understand what I would do with money if we raised it.
[1616.42 --> 1617.10] And so...
[1617.10 --> 1619.10] I would like to stop you there because this is really important.
[1619.52 --> 1620.92] And I don't think listeners know this.
[1621.22 --> 1624.92] Having looked at what you're about, it's not enough to observe.
[1625.22 --> 1626.28] You have to understand.
[1626.70 --> 1629.24] So, I think this understanding runs very deep for you.
[1629.24 --> 1633.44] And I can see the connection to, you have to understand.
[1633.58 --> 1636.16] You have to know, really know what you're doing.
[1636.56 --> 1640.54] And I would like to connect these two dots because they're important and they'll keep coming back.
[1640.78 --> 1641.54] But please carry on.
[1641.54 --> 1641.86] Yeah.
[1642.00 --> 1643.56] Thank you for making that point.
[1643.66 --> 1645.04] I think I know where you're going.
[1645.38 --> 1647.04] So, we started the company.
[1647.58 --> 1659.42] And a really good friend from Coro West Times, Thor Hansen, he, many years ago at a GopherCon, he told me, you know, if you ever start a company, I want to be the first person to work with you.
[1659.42 --> 1660.60] And he kept his word.
[1661.22 --> 1663.98] In November 2020, he joined Polar Signals.
[1664.42 --> 1666.60] And since then, a couple more people have joined.
[1667.28 --> 1675.14] And in February of this year, we launched a private invite-only beta of our product for continuous profiling.
[1675.60 --> 1678.78] And I guess we should talk a little bit about what continuous profiling is.
[1679.22 --> 1683.84] So, essentially, profiling itself has been around ever since programming has, right?
[1683.84 --> 1689.08] When we did our research, we found it had gone back at least to the 60s and 70s.
[1689.08 --> 1696.50] Because everybody, as soon as they started programming, needed to understand what was happening with the code that they had been writing, right?
[1696.92 --> 1699.14] What was using the CPU time?
[1699.26 --> 1705.44] And even, especially in the 60s and 70s, it was so much more precious to have CPU time, right?
[1705.72 --> 1708.44] And so, profiling has been around for a while.