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[75.88 --> 81.20] We speak about the new company that he co-founded, ChainGuard, as well as how to secure container |
[81.20 --> 86.08] images, and one of the Easter eggs that Scott Nichols put in chainguard.dev. |
[86.34 --> 88.42] That is a great one to end this KubeCon on. |
[88.78 --> 92.70] Big thanks to our partners Fastly, LaunchDarkly, and Linode. |
[92.70 --> 94.88] Thank you for the great bandwidth Fastly. |
[95.10 --> 97.22] You can learn more at Fastly.com. |
[97.70 --> 102.60] Ship new features with confidence by getting your feature flags, powered by LaunchDarkly.com. |
[103.02 --> 106.82] And thank you, Linode, for keeping our Kubernetes fast and simple. |
[107.40 --> 113.66] You too can run our infrastructure as we do via Linode.com forward slash changelog. |
[113.66 --> 120.74] What's up, shippers? |
[120.86 --> 124.22] This episode is brought to you by our friends at Fly. |
[124.64 --> 128.66] Fly lets you deploy your apps and databases close to your users in minutes. |
[128.66 --> 136.46] You can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Dino, Python, or Elixir app and databases all over the world. |
[136.74 --> 137.50] No ops required. |
[137.88 --> 140.42] Fly's vision is that all apps should run close to their users. |
[140.88 --> 142.66] They have generous free tier for most services, |
[142.66 --> 145.48] so you can easily prove to yourself and your team |
[145.48 --> 148.66] that the Fly platform has everything you need to run your app globally. |
[149.08 --> 151.54] Learn more at fly.io slash changelog |
[151.54 --> 153.72] and check out the speedrun and their excellent docs. |
[154.14 --> 157.44] Again, fly.io slash changelog or check the show notes for links. |
[160.66 --> 164.58] We are going to shift in 3, 2, 1. |
[172.66 --> 181.02] So I've attended the last KubeCon virtually. |
[181.16 --> 182.18] This was KubeCon EU. |
[182.82 --> 187.48] And I got the impression that the biggest trend then was EBPF. |
[188.14 --> 189.60] Everybody was talking about it. |
[189.60 --> 194.46] And some were calling it the JavaScript for the kernel, kernel 2.0. |
[194.54 --> 194.74] Yeah. |
[194.86 --> 195.90] All sorts of references. |
[195.90 --> 198.64] How do you think about EBPF, Liz? |
[198.64 --> 202.24] So I've also heard that idea of it being, |
[202.62 --> 209.06] it's expressed as EBPF is to the kernel what JavaScript is to an HTML page, |
[209.52 --> 211.30] in that it makes it programmable. |
[211.64 --> 214.76] Kind of interesting analogy, but it kind of makes my brain hurt. |
[214.92 --> 217.80] So I find it easier to just think about the kernel. |
[217.80 --> 225.26] So what EBPF allows us to do is to run custom programs that we load into the kernel |
[225.26 --> 227.28] and we associate them with events. |
[228.08 --> 231.06] And because there are so many different types of events |
[231.06 --> 233.32] that we can attach our programs to, |
[233.52 --> 237.60] and because they're in the kernel, there's only one kernel per host. |
[237.94 --> 244.00] So these programs have access to pretty much everything that's happening on the entire machine. |
[244.00 --> 249.76] And that makes them incredibly powerful and incredibly useful for observing what's going on, |
[250.08 --> 252.70] security, and of course, networking as well. |
[253.18 --> 253.28] Yeah. |
[253.42 --> 255.44] So yeah, very excited about EBPF. |
[255.70 --> 257.42] That was exactly my impression as well. |
[257.74 --> 262.30] I really like this idea where you have all those containers running on this host, |
[262.36 --> 263.44] and then you have many hosts. |
[263.68 --> 265.34] But still, when it comes to the host, |
[265.54 --> 268.20] why is this particular set of containers struggling? |
[268.62 --> 269.50] What is going on there? |
[270.02 --> 272.00] Networking is such a big issue even today. |
[272.00 --> 275.72] I think things are getting better, but I remember like three, four years ago, |
[275.80 --> 278.80] it was like the wild, wild west in the world of Kubernetes IP tables. |
[279.06 --> 280.64] Oh my goodness me, don't get me started. |
[281.24 --> 284.56] So I think EBPF is making things a little bit more visible, |
[284.82 --> 287.02] a little bit more understandable, and that helps. |
[287.36 --> 291.36] And we can skip past those IP tables by just, we'll just ignore that. |
[291.46 --> 292.92] We'll just use EBPF instead. |
[293.36 --> 297.20] And that does lead to some genuinely measurable performance improvements, |
[297.20 --> 298.58] which is really nice. |
[298.58 --> 302.58] So when it comes to the end users, what is EBPF helping them with? |
[302.80 --> 304.14] Understanding things, networking? |
[304.54 --> 305.92] Is there something more to it? |
[306.04 --> 307.08] I mean, that's at the surface. |
[307.34 --> 309.56] If we peel back the first layer, what do we have underneath? |
[309.82 --> 313.46] So I think one thing to be clear about is that although a lot of us as engineers |
[313.46 --> 316.30] are getting very excited about EBPF programs, |
[316.38 --> 319.94] and I love to talk about, hey, let's write an EBPF program. |
[319.94 --> 326.54] In reality, most people are not going to need to write EBPF programs themselves, |
[327.18 --> 331.24] much like most of us aren't involved in kernel programming, |
[331.50 --> 333.30] but we use the kernel all the time. |
[333.64 --> 338.86] And I think we're increasingly going to see tools that build on EBPF primitives, |
[339.04 --> 342.80] if you like, and offer us really useful abstractions. |
[343.14 --> 347.04] There's lots of different projects in the CNCF that are starting to do that, |
[347.04 --> 349.68] and I'm sure we're going to see some more coming forward. |
[350.12 --> 355.58] There's a history of observability in particular using EBPF. |
[355.88 --> 359.24] Brendan Gregg's been doing amazing work for several years |
[359.24 --> 364.16] with all these different command line tools that you can use to measure, |
[364.38 --> 368.74] get metrics on pretty much everything that's happening across your system. |
[368.96 --> 374.04] But until recently, that's all been very command line driven, quite low level. |
[374.04 --> 380.66] You know, how many TCP packets are being dropped is a very useful question to be able to answer, |
[380.82 --> 384.16] but sometimes you want a higher level abstraction. |
[384.50 --> 390.36] And I think that's where we're seeing a lot of the innovation in this bringing EBPF power |
[390.36 --> 397.26] and capabilities into tools that are at the kind of levels that answer questions for end users. |
[397.52 --> 397.82] Okay. |
[397.82 --> 401.80] So I know that one tool that you're very familiar with is Cilium. |
[402.04 --> 405.06] And I'm wondering where does Cilium and EBPF meet? |
[405.28 --> 408.88] Because end users, I think they would know more about Cilium features |
[408.88 --> 412.16] and what that helps them do, see and understand, |
[412.60 --> 416.28] and less about EBPF, specifically the technology that Cilium makes use of. |
[416.60 --> 416.82] Yeah. |
[417.04 --> 420.66] So Cilium has always made use of EBPF. |
[420.66 --> 428.42] It was originally created as a networking project that uses EBPF to create that network plumbing |
[428.42 --> 431.66] between different endpoints in your system. |
[432.04 --> 437.16] And I think probably a lot of users just know it as a Kubernetes CNI, |
[437.34 --> 439.02] but it's actually a lot more than that. |
[439.14 --> 443.86] It's also offering sort of CNI with lots of bells and whistles. |
[443.86 --> 449.74] So things like observability, being able to look at network flows, network policy. |
[450.06 --> 453.72] So giving you security enforcement at the network level. |
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