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**Mat Ryer:** \[22:01\] Nice. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** I'm curious if you have a way -- like, now that you're older and wiser, and you've been through the experience, and it was a great teacher... I'm wondering, do you have strategies now for doing things that are scary, that could break things? Like, do you have a strategy for tackling that now? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** The thing is we did everything right at the time, right? So we did all the tests we could think of, we thought what do we expect in the logs, in the monitoring, in the dashboard, and we observed. So the only thing that I would do different is not deploy before lunch. \[laughs\] So you can, I gu... |
**Mat Ryer:** What were you having for lunch? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** I don't think I had lunch that day. I mean, I was like nudging stuff, but I don't think I had a lunch-lunch. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, there's another theme emerging here... One of the main reasons to write good code is so you can just have lunch... For a good reason. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** That's another thing I would the differently; I would write good code. Yeah. \[laughter\] |
**Mat Ryer:** That's optional. If you've got good tests, you don't need good code. Controversial. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** So to me, what I usually tell junior members of staff is to be like, "Look, we expect you to break things. It's just part of sort of maturing as an engineer. What is helpful, and even if you follow the playbooks and you do the right things and everything else, sometimes things will go wrong; whoe... |
It's much easier for the team to go back and say "Okay, what --" Because the first thing they're going to do is ask you, "What did you do?!" Right? \[laughter\] So after everybody calms down, you can say, "Well, these are the steps I took." Even to this day, I do this, right? If I'm working with a system that I haven't... |
Now, one could say that's sort of extreme... I mean, again, if there was a playbook for it, if there was some automation that I could just click the button, or issue the command and let it do its thing... But if I have to do this step-by-step thing, that means there's no playbook for it. That means there's no automatio... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. And you can update it. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Yeah. So literally, just track what you're doing; that may actually end up helping you. Hey, guess what - that might even turn into a playbook or an opportunity for automation for whatever it is that you're working on. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, it's like step one, SSH in. Step two, check the Go version. Step three, drop all the database tables. \[laughter\] Spot the problem. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** It's just pen testing. It's fine. |
**Mat Ryer:** Exactly. Yeah. You shouldn't be able to do that, really. If you can do that... |
**Dee Kitchen:** I think that's important though, that they're taking steps, because it helps with something else... It helps people admit that they've possibly done something. Who in their early career has got the courage to say, "I've mucked up", right? "I potentially have lost you money, or time." Most people are te... |
**Mat Ryer:** \[26:01\] Yeah. Well, I think that speaks to like the blameless culture that's important. It's important to reach the point where your people aren't punished for these mistakes... Because the last thing you want is people - like you say, they bury it, they try and hide it, or just don't tell anybody, whic... |
**Kris Brandow:** Yeah. You should always blame systems and not people. If something went wrong, it's not the person's fault, it's why did the system allow the person to do that? |
**Mat Ryer:** Right. So when Johnny says something that's mean to me, it's not Johnny that I have to complain about. It's the system that lets Johnny get on the podcast and be horrible to me. \[laughter\] |
**Kris Brandow:** Exactly. It's part of the system to be mean to you, Mat, don't you know? |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Indeed. |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, it feels like it sometimes... |
**Break:** \[26:51\] |
**Mat Ryer:** Have we got any more horror stories? Oh, by the way, this campfire's warm isn't it? We can probably put an effect of a campfire over the top; let's pretend we're all gathered around a campfire. Oh, what do you think of the campfire, Johnny? |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Sure. Yeah, yeah. \[unintelligible 00:28:44.21\] |
**Mat Ryer:** I'm convinced by that performance, Johnny... Have you done actual theater? What about you, Kris? What do you think of the fire? It's cozy, isn't it? |
**Kris Brandow:** Sure. |
**Mat Ryer:** Okay... |
**Kris Brandow:** Crackly, warm fire... We don't have any marshmallows, so it's not as good... |
**Mat Ryer:** Don't we? It's imaginary land. It's podcast land. You can have anything you want. Check this out... What's this? Look, look at your face... Look, it's marshmallows. Natalie, what do you think of the fire? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** It shouldn't be burning servers... |
**Mat Ryer:** No, it shouldn't be burning servers though... No, this is a fire that doesn't actually release any carbon. It's a good fire. |
**Dee Kitchen:** It's basically my GPU overheating. \[laughter\] |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** It's the sound of my computer |
**Dee Kitchen:** The money fire... My electric bill... |
**Kris Brandow:** It's some old Intel Macs, you know... We just turned them on, opened Slack, and now they've made us a nice fire. It's good. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** \[laughs\] Just have Slack and a regular expression running; it'll generate enough heat to cook your marshmallow. |
**Kris Brandow:** And those fans can definitely fly us somewhere. We could all go visit Mat in the UK. |
1:Yeah. I mean, make sure you do go through proper passport control. Don't just fly in at any point, because that's illegal. But yeah, otherwise do, please visit; we'd love to have you. |
\[29:57\] Yeah, I remember talking about hot CPUs... The CPU Hot program that I used to have on an Amiga, and basically run it, and it made the CPU hot. And that was a program that you could have -- it was on like a front of a magazine, for some reason... "What's that doing...?" |
**Dee Kitchen:** Someone wrote another infinite loop... |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah, there you go. They've turned their horror story into a big success story, because they got on a magazine cover with a floppy disk. So... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Interesting. Now with the energy costs going up here in Europe, all the heaters are becoming more expensive, because people assume they will not have gas to heat their house. Many apartment buildings have these systems with gas. So you buy like electrical heaters to warm the place in case you m... |
**Mat Ryer:** I bet we see a spike in the downloads of Slack in that area... \[laughter\] |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Or that CPU Hot... |
**Kris Brandow:** How many Electron apps can I install on one machine? |
**Mat Ryer:** Okay, has anybody got any other horror-horror stories? |
**Dee Kitchen:** I've got more... I've got one which is something that's kind of triggering. I don't know if anyone else has got sort of triggers from being horrified. One of my old bosses used to come to me, and if he started the sentence with, "What do you know about...", then I knew immediately it was downhill. It's... |
And I ended up at one of these clients sites, and there was a customer... And it was a big, big company. And they were basically doing a split. Merger and acquisition is the normal thing you hear about; they're doing the other thing, they're splitting in two. And they basically said to the contractor, the company I wor... |
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