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[2629.84 --> 2644.98] Yeah, we, you know, I filed a proposal for this and I made it available and we had a link for people to easily download like a development version that included these changes using the Go tip command.
[2645.70 --> 2647.56] And so people could try it and give feedback.
[2648.40 --> 2651.28] And we got some feedback on it, which was super helpful.
[2651.28 --> 2656.60] And we got a lot of feedback on the issue too, which was very helpful in developing the issue.
[2657.02 --> 2658.60] So, or the proposal.
[2659.48 --> 2665.62] So, yeah, I mean, hopefully we've addressed most of the important issues people have.
[2665.84 --> 2667.72] For anything else, there's 119.
[2669.40 --> 2669.80] Absolutely.
[2670.18 --> 2673.86] Well, no, I mean, honestly, I think these kinds of things make such a difference.
[2674.06 --> 2675.26] So we're so pleased.
[2675.26 --> 2679.50] And honestly, I feel like there's a lot more to talk about with workspaces and modules.
[2679.62 --> 2684.80] Maybe, Michael, you could come back one day and we'll do like a modules and workspaces special.
[2685.18 --> 2685.60] Oh, sure.
[2685.72 --> 2686.44] I'd love to.
[2686.72 --> 2687.00] Yeah.
[2687.48 --> 2688.16] Okay, cool.
[2688.24 --> 2689.74] Well, we will hold you to that.
[2689.88 --> 2691.72] I do consider this to be legally binding.
[2692.10 --> 2693.60] Like the pinky promises?
[2694.08 --> 2696.94] Pinky promises are of all the types of promise.
[2697.08 --> 2698.56] I think they're up there, aren't they?
[2698.60 --> 2700.38] With the most important, aren't they?
[2700.92 --> 2701.98] Pinky, you know what I mean?
[2701.98 --> 2704.98] You've got like local kind of laws.
[2705.20 --> 2707.50] You've got like national laws.
[2707.88 --> 2712.48] And then all the way at the top, after the Supreme Court, you've got the little pinky promise there.
[2712.84 --> 2714.46] It's been pinky promise at the top.
[2714.56 --> 2715.04] I got it.
[2715.44 --> 2716.32] Yeah, I think that's how it works.
[2716.38 --> 2719.08] I think that's the legal structure of the pinky promise.
[2719.46 --> 2721.42] Well, here's another pinky promise.
[2721.58 --> 2724.36] I promise you're about to hear some unpopular opinions.
[2728.36 --> 2730.08] Unpopular opinions.
[2730.84 --> 2731.18] What?
[2731.18 --> 2733.02] I actually think should probably leave.
[2736.36 --> 2737.92] Unpopular opinions.
[2741.86 --> 2742.34] Okay.
[2743.74 --> 2745.80] Who's going to go first with...
[2745.80 --> 2747.44] I don't know why I'm speaking in the spooky voice.
[2747.60 --> 2749.54] Who wants to say the first unpopular opinion?
[2750.00 --> 2751.48] So maybe I can start with mine.
[2751.98 --> 2756.20] Mine is that I think code generation should be avoided whenever possible.
[2756.20 --> 2761.14] I think the main reason for that is because it adds developer friction.
[2761.54 --> 2764.64] It often increases build size and build time.
[2765.18 --> 2769.60] And oftentimes people overestimate how slow reflection is.
[2769.76 --> 2773.04] If you use reflection well, the cost is actually very reasonable.
[2773.26 --> 2776.96] And it's not like you're building your whole program around reflection.
[2776.96 --> 2779.92] You're using it in very careful ways in small places.
[2780.80 --> 2782.14] What do you think of that, Michael?
[2782.52 --> 2787.92] I guess I don't have like a very strong opinion about this either way.
[2787.92 --> 2788.68] I do.
[2788.98 --> 2789.38] Yes?
[2790.02 --> 2791.04] Let's hear your opinion.
[2791.14 --> 2793.96] Is it the popular or unpopular variety?
[2794.22 --> 2800.02] The thing is, I love CodeGen because it's like you're doing loads and loads of typing.
[2800.28 --> 2802.90] You just do a bit of typing and you run a command.
[2803.70 --> 2806.64] And it's like, oh, it's like you've done loads of typing.
[2806.64 --> 2807.68] So that's the thing.
[2808.40 --> 2811.00] Reflection's hard, so it's quite satisfying when you get it right.
[2811.36 --> 2817.36] But editing a template and then running a thing and having 1,200 methods update,
[2817.94 --> 2820.64] you've like fixed 1,200 bugs at the same time.
[2821.38 --> 2822.62] What do you think of that, Michael?
[2822.98 --> 2823.86] I will say this.
[2824.16 --> 2831.02] I find that working with code generation when using the Go command is not very fun.
[2831.52 --> 2833.22] I don't like using Go Generate.
[2833.22 --> 2836.30] I don't think it has a good user experience.
[2836.30 --> 2841.88] It happens separate from the build, so it's really easy to have stale files.
[2842.62 --> 2846.70] You know, I feel like this ship has sailed, but if you're going to do a lot of code generation,
[2847.16 --> 2854.12] Bazel is very nice for that, but it's not very heavily used in the Go community.
[2854.60 --> 2857.44] I mean, I miss inside of Google, right?
[2857.68 --> 2861.80] We use mostly generated protos, right?
[2861.80 --> 2868.48] And it's seamless because the build just generates them automatically and you don't need to think about them.
[2868.80 --> 2874.96] And the tools take care of all of the annoyances that are caused by code generation.
[2875.42 --> 2883.06] But our tools don't really do that, so there's a lot of friction when using generated code outside of those build systems.
[2883.06 --> 2885.68] So I get pretty annoyed.
[2885.86 --> 2890.50] If I have to run a make before my Go build, I feel like there's a problem.
[2891.28 --> 2892.84] That's kind of answering a different question.
[2893.20 --> 2893.48] But, you know.
[2894.24 --> 2898.22] I think generics, oh, I've said it, are going to get booted out here.
[2898.30 --> 2901.74] But I think this rule obviously is very weakly enforced.
[2902.50 --> 2904.14] So much for pinky promises, eh?
[2904.54 --> 2907.48] After I was bigging them up and giving them all that legal weight.
[2907.62 --> 2908.26] Look at it now.
[2908.74 --> 2911.00] It's been reduced to a silly, childish thing.
[2911.00 --> 2911.88] How sad.
[2912.80 --> 2919.14] Well, what I was saying is I think generics are going to get rid of a lot of cases for code generation.
[2919.42 --> 2925.12] But reflection is pretty difficult to write because there's no kind of feedback.
[2925.32 --> 2930.08] Like you need unit tests really for your feedback to, I mean, you don't really need that.
[2930.32 --> 2931.42] Let me rephrase that.
[2932.14 --> 2936.60] I think reflection is quite hard to get right because it's that sort of metaprogramming.
[2936.60 --> 2944.10] But then code generation templates are also metaprogramming and they are often quite difficult to look after and maintain.
[2944.66 --> 2945.70] So maybe you've got some legs.
[2946.14 --> 2950.50] I'll be interested to find, to test this one on Twitter at GoTimeFM.
[2950.60 --> 2954.36] We will tweet out a poll and find out if this really isn't popular.
[2954.82 --> 2956.04] It's a candidate for one though.
[2956.16 --> 2956.74] It's a good one.
[2957.24 --> 2959.44] Can you beat him, Michael, is the question.
[2959.44 --> 2963.24] My unpopular opinion is we should bring back the TriProposal.
[2963.40 --> 2964.00] Oh, really?
[2964.18 --> 2977.10] And this is where I'm going to not mention the other features by name, but I'll say of all the features that people have proposed to the Go, as language changes to the Go language,