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**Mat Ryer:** "Oh..." Yeah. Okay. Well, that's, I'm afraid, all the time we've got today. But this whole new-- |
**Carl Johnson:** Is it? |
**Mat Ryer:** Well, yes, because we respect the timeline on Go Time... \[laughter\] |
**Carl Johnson:** We're going to travel back in time and fix all of the connectivity errors. \[laughter\] |
**Mat Ryer:** Yeah. To be fair though, if everything works and all the files are collected in the final version of this that goes out, this will be seamless. And the editors - they're so good. So it could well happen. That's all the time we've got, I'm afraid, today. Thank you so much, Johnny Boursiquot. Always a pleas... |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Mm-hmm. |
**Mat Ryer:** Okay, I thought you were going to say-- I was leaving space for you to say something nice about me, but no, that's fine. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** \[laughs\] |
**Mat Ryer:** And thank you so much, Carl Johnson, for joining us. Well, I'm sure you'll come back, I hope, another time. |
**Carl Johnson:** Ah. More unpopular opinions, I can't stop doing that. Johnny, good to be on an episode with you. We're both in Baltimore, and I'd love to start coming back to the Baltimore Golang meetings as soon as my children let me leave the house. So... Someday. |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** \[laughs\] Sounds good. |
**Mat Ryer:** That's lovely, yeah. Do you want to say something nice about me, or we're just going to go two for two? |
**Johnny Boursiquot:** Mat, you've done an exceedingly adequate job at hosting... |
**Mat Ryer:** I'll take it. \[laughs\] I'll take it. |
**Carl Johnson:** Thanks, Mat. Thanks for having me on. |
**Mat Ryer:** No, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much. And we'll see you next time, dear listener, on Go Time. Bye. |
• Who owns the code: company, individual, team, open source contributors |
• Luis Villa's background as a programmer-turned-attorney involved in open source since college |
• The concept of ownership being a "bundle of sticks" and its fragmentation in the code world |
• Team ownership vs. individual ownership |
• The role of contracts and corporate lawyers in determining ownership |
• The distinction between legal ownership and cultural/code ownership |
• The Go programming language's packaging system and its implications for licensing and ownership |
• Ownership of APIs and code |
• Differences between code ownership and knowledge/ideas |
• Global vs local law for database licenses and AI |
• The case of Oracle v. Google and its implications for API copyrights |
• Fair use arguments in copyright law |
• Definition of code ownership and its consequences for individuals/companies |
• Definition of creativity and its relation to copyright |
• Exceptions to copyright law (e.g. telephone books) |
• Selection as a form of creativity under US Copyright law |
• Database rights and model output copyrights |
• Purpose and scope of copyright protection (e.g. control over use, redistribution, modification) |
• Fair use doctrine and transformative use |
• Issues with AI-generated content (e.g. style copying, potential infringement) |
• Code ownership and liability for software issues |
• Product liability in the EU is becoming a major concern due to AI advancements |
• The manufacturing process of AI-created products is separate from the original code creation |
• Blame and responsibility are murky in cases where AI creates problems |
• Historical examples, such as train accidents, show how technological changes drive legal shifts |
• Assigning blame to individual programmers or companies is difficult due to complex systems and dependencies |
• Applying old models to new technologies can lead to bad outcomes |
• Solutions, such as standards and two-factor authentication, create extra work for maintainers |
• The "tower of 10,000 guys" in Nebraska illustrates the complexity of open source maintenance and the need for payment and recognition |
• Open source's sustainability in the industry |
• The burden of new regulations on open source developers |
• Tidelift's proposal to pay developers for following standards |
• EU regulations and their potential impact on commercially-sponsored open source |
• Copyright and its history, including its original motivations and moral rights |
• Government interaction with open source and liability |
• Legislators' lack of technical expertise and the refinement of laws through litigation |
• The concept of "goldies" and its implications in a contract |
• Problems with the legal system, including imbalanced negotiations and lack of transparency |
• Comparison between law and programming, highlighting issues with cruft and dependencies |
• The adversarial nature of the legal system, where humans smooth out rough edges but contracts can fail due to code limitations |
• Class problems arising from unequal access to knowledge and resources in the legal system |
• High trust vs low trust environments in law and their impact on relationships between lawyers and clients |
• Considerations specific to Go software engineering language regarding ownership of code |
• The concept of entitlement vs ownership, particularly in open source communities |
• The current model for open-source software development is biased towards consumers and may not be sustainable in the long term. |
• Maintainers are often overwhelmed with issues and lack resources to deal with them, leading to burnout and a decrease in contributions. |
• Large companies will prioritize consumer needs over those of maintainers and contributors. |
• Open-source projects rely on cultural ownership, responsibility, and entitlement, which cannot be solely addressed by legal systems. |
• The industry is not always transactional or mean-spirited; many people are willing to contribute selflessly for the greater good. |
• The importance of hiring librarians and archivists in tech companies to organize and maintain information |
• Common misconceptions about the role of librarians and the value they can bring to tech companies |
• Why tech companies may not be hiring librarians, including lack of understanding of their expertise and reliance on technology solutions |
• A book review on the history of indexes mentioned as a relevant topic |
**Angelica Hill:** Hello, and welcome to Go Time! Today we are going to be talking about who owns your code. A question that certainly has been on my mind. So we're going to be exploring who owns the code - the company? Is it the engineer? Is it the team? Is it all of the open source contributors if it's a project? How... |
**Kris Brandow:** Hello. I am back, after a very, very long, but much-needed break. So I'm feeling rested, and I'm ready to get into the Meta of this "Who owns code?" It's gonna be fun. |
**Angelica Hill:** You're ready, I'm ready... It's a very interesting topic. And the beautiful Natalie - I've seen you, I think, far too often for your own liking in the recent weeks... My wonderful co-host... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** It's like our weekly one-on-one, but it's not one-on-one. |
**Angelica Hill:** A weekly one-on-one with anyone who decides to tune into the live... \[laughs\] |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Weekly anyone. I like that. |
**Angelica Hill:** Weekly anyone. Beautiful. Me and Natalie don't do one-on-ones, we do anyones. \[laughs\] |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** That sounds terrible... \[laughter\] |
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