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**Angelica Hill:** So in the spirit of being clear and concise, which is very important in an interview, I would love to hear your three green flags and your three red flags. Jonas. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Sorry, just to confirm, I would like to validate... As Emma said. So a red flag is obviously like a deal-breaker; a green flag - is it like immediate throw at them a job offer, or just like a checklist that this definitely has to happen? What do you mean with a green flag? |
**Angelica Hill:** Like something that is an indication that they could be the right person for the job. So it's something that if they say something, if they demonstrate a certain skill... It might even be like they have a friendly, personable demeanor in the interview. That could be a green flag, and it just makes yo... |
**Jonas:** Well, I'll just repeat myself with that, like, asking clarifying questions, digging in, showing that effort to want to understand really well... I think candidates that seem to really almost be like a step ahead, so they're a little future thinking with each of their solutions, to where it's like I almost do... |
And just generally anyone that shows just a really strong empathy for others, and like someone that just wants to be part of a good team, and is okay learning from failure... You know, low ego, and just generally wants to be a strong teammate is really, really important. I don't know... That's the thing, we can always ... |
**Emma Draper:** \[50:22\] Definitely. Do you want to do your red flags? Or do you want me to go on green lights, and give you a pause? |
**Jonas:** Yeah, do your green, and then let me think of my red, and then yeah... \[laughs\] |
**Emma Draper:** Good. So I think being able to pull from being concise, but being able to grab the interviewer's attention with the examples that you're giving... I really appreciate it when candidates pause before answering; it shows a thoughtfulness to understanding the question before -- again, it's that, like, jum... |
I really appreciate it and love when a candidate comes into the interview and has researched anything they can about the company, about the mission, about what language has probed for the recruiter to say "What language does this team program? What problems are they solving for?" Like, you can ask... I think it speaks ... |
And then the last one I would say is - perhaps a little bit antiquated, but I really love it when there's like a thank you. And that could be in any way, but if I get an email from a candidate that says thank you, or I get a LinkedIn message... And I've done this myself after all interviews. I just think recognizing th... |
**Angelica Hill:** Back over to you. What should you just not do? |
**Jonas:** Yeah. Red flags... I mean, hopefully I don't have to say this, but obviously, any sign of like sexism, racism, ableism, ageism, any of that - just immediately no. I'll just make sure I say that, because sadly, I've encountered it interviewing. I think, opposite of a green flag a bit, just really not asking q... |
And then I think the other one that I've seen sometimes is an attitude that sort of implies the user or the customer is dumb. There's a lack of empathy there, I think, or a lack of creativity in terms of as engineers, how we can make our things actually better and easier to use... That's something I've just seen someti... |
**Angelica Hill:** What do they not do, Emma? |
**Emma Draper:** I think, to Jonas' point -- I mean, first I'll bold and underline, don't come into an interview -- just please don't be racist, or sexist... That's just -- |
**Angelica Hill:** Or ask the interviewer how old they are... |
**Emma Draper:** \[53:52\] I don't wanna speak to you... It's just -- I don't want to speak to you. Sorry, but there's no room for that. I think it's a red flag to me if, when pulling from your answer bank, a candidate showcases the quality of needing to be right, versus needing to be understood. I think that that spea... |
And trying to think through what else... I think not being able to bring strong examples to the table of how you have dealt with moments in your career where you disagree, either with leadership, or with your boss, or how you challenge biases in the workplace... I think candidates need to be able to show how they do th... |
**Angelica Hill:** So as is the case with it seems every Go Time episode me and Natalie do, we're going to have to have a follow-up, because we're coming to the end of our time... But not before we do Unpopular Opinion. |
**Jingle:** \[55:33\] to \[55:50\] |
**Angelica Hill:** So, Emma, what is your unpopular opinion? |
**Emma Draper:** Do we just give one? |
**Angelica Hill:** Yes. |
**Emma Draper:** Oh, okay. |
**Angelica Hill:** First time on Go Time. So, unpopular opinion - we're gonna ask you for an opinion that you believe may or may not be unpopular... We're then going to tweet about it, and we're going to have a Twitter poll where people will vote on whether they agree or disagree with your opinion. If your opinion is t... |
**Emma Draper:** Okay, I'm gonna hope that this doesn't go viral... \[laughs\] I think that mustard is better than ketchup. |
**Angelica Hill:** Okay... |
**Emma Draper:** Do I need to...? |
**Angelica Hill:** Is there data to support that claim? |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Emma is right. |
**Emma Draper:** I thought it was an opinion... \[laughter\] |
**Jonas:** Universally, like with any food... |
**Emma Draper:** Yup. |
**Jonas:** Like, you'd rather put your pretzel in mustard than ketchup? |
**Emma Draper:** Yup. |
**Jonas:** No a pretzel makes sense. But hot dogs. So hot dog...? Burgers...? |
**Emma Draper:** Yup. Teeny-tiny little, like, pigs in a blanket? 100%, all the time, and mustard. |
**Angelica Hill:** Do you have a preference? Is it Dijon? Or any mustard? |
**Emma Draper:** I'm not gonna be particular. I just like mustard better. |
**Angelica Hill:** Solid. Okay, we will see. |
**Emma Draper:** You wouldn't ask me what ketchup I prefer... Like, it's just ketchup. |
**Angelica Hill:** I wouldn't. I would ask what kind of ketchup. |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** The red one. |
**Angelica Hill:** The red one. \[laughter\] |
**Jonas:** I would say clearly you don't like ketchup, because this can get contentious, so whether you're like a Heinz person, or... You know, there is-- |
**Angelica Hill:** Inside the ketchup battle. \[laughter\] |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** In some countries Heinz is not a ketchup, because like percents of tomatoes... Same as Pringles. Not exactly chips and all those... |
**Jonas:** \[laughs\] True. |
**Angelica Hill:** We've unlocked Pandora's box of condiments... |
**Natalie Pistunovich:** Somebody didn't read the docs. \[laughter\] |
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