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[3728.54 --> 3730.04] we want to make it a good experience. |
[3730.14 --> 3732.28] So we don't want to say, hey, well, like too bad. |
[3732.36 --> 3733.80] We thought this was clearest and simplest. |
[3733.98 --> 3735.04] So you need to live with it. |
[3735.10 --> 3736.86] It's like, no, that's why we want to make it an open spec. |
[3736.86 --> 3738.52] Like, what does the community think there? |
[3739.04 --> 3739.78] Sync with that. |
[3740.04 --> 3744.92] And then, yeah, I think it's cool to like seeing the other kinds of like templates and |
[3744.92 --> 3746.40] features that folks contribute. |
[3746.80 --> 3750.72] But like, for instance, is the contribution process clear for how I would publish? |
[3750.98 --> 3754.82] And is it clear that, hey, like I could totally choose to publish this for the whole community |
[3754.82 --> 3758.26] or I could also leave this private just to me or just to my company. |
[3758.80 --> 3763.38] So then getting feedback on those kinds of flows and what we have built into the CLI or into |
[3763.38 --> 3765.18] some of our other things that we offer. |
[3765.32 --> 3769.80] Like we have GitHub Actions or Azure DevOps Task to kind of help with some of those processes. |
[3770.16 --> 3773.94] Like, are these things working well for users or are there still some points to optimize? |
[3774.20 --> 3778.14] Because we'll get feedback of like, hey, like this command in the CLI wasn't really documented |
[3778.14 --> 3781.66] and it's because, oh, if like we just added it, then we got to make sure our docs are keeping up. |
[3781.66 --> 3785.58] So I think also just keeping like our docs going and updating and all that since things |
[3785.58 --> 3788.66] are moving so fast, making sure that then it's clear to people as well. |
[3788.66 --> 3790.42] So something we're always keeping in mind. |
[3791.22 --> 3795.34] So this Go template we're looking at, that's been the example we've used here. |
[3795.44 --> 3798.50] So on line six, it references an image, which I mentioned before. |
[3799.06 --> 3802.66] It's an mcr.microsoft.com slash whatever URL. |
[3802.78 --> 3803.42] And it's an image. |
[3803.54 --> 3810.24] So are you saying that because one line above that says or use a Docker file or Docker compose file. |
[3810.34 --> 3813.04] So essentially you've removed the step, right? |
[3813.66 --> 3814.42] Is that what happened here? |
[3814.48 --> 3816.50] This newer version is the template. |
[3816.50 --> 3821.12] It uses an image you've already sort of pre-baked with what would normally be in a Docker file. |
[3821.58 --> 3821.94] Correct. |
[3822.10 --> 3822.28] Yeah. |
[3822.38 --> 3827.82] And then if you go actually to the github.com slash devcontainers slash images, then you |
[3827.82 --> 3829.80] can see what's contained in that Go image. |
[3830.32 --> 3832.34] And you'll see, okay, there's an actual Docker file. |
[3832.50 --> 3837.64] So like ultimately there is one we're just saying, hey, maybe it'll be clearer, less cluttery |
[3837.64 --> 3838.70] if we don't have it there. |
[3838.88 --> 3843.08] And we also added that comment that you saw there in line five for or use a Docker file or |
[3843.08 --> 3847.80] Docker compose after we'd gotten some feedback of, hey, like, how can I use a Docker file? |
[3847.80 --> 3851.04] Or, hey, I used to know there were Docker files in your templates, but I'm not seeing |
[3851.04 --> 3851.66] them anymore. |
[3851.80 --> 3854.92] So it's cool that you saw the comment there and we're hoping things like that can help |
[3854.92 --> 3855.28] users. |
[3855.28 --> 3858.98] But seeing how we want to move forward with certain things like that. |
[3859.60 --> 3859.72] Yeah. |
[3860.44 --> 3865.50] Magic is good once you've to graduate into, you know, like magic isn't it's good, I guess, |
[3865.54 --> 3866.02] out the gate. |
[3866.02 --> 3870.16] But like, for the most part, your kind of primary target audience, at least right now, |
[3870.72 --> 3875.16] wants to know all the lines, you know, let me compose that Docker file for myself. |
[3875.44 --> 3880.66] Or at least tell me maybe there's two variants of this, this .json file where you've got like |
[3880.66 --> 3885.46] the full feature one, which doesn't reference the image and the opposite one, which was before |
[3885.46 --> 3886.76] the image was created, essentially. |
[3887.18 --> 3888.00] Give me both versions. |
[3888.12 --> 3892.42] So that way, if I'm, especially as you're sort of training wheelsing people into this world, |
[3892.42 --> 3896.84] it's like, well, you can go this simple if you've already pre-baked your images or you |
[3896.84 --> 3901.60] can do the full thing, Docker file, Docker compose and all to get to the end result. |
[3901.60 --> 3903.88] If you're familiar with that, because I mean, I would imagine a lot of people are pretty |
[3903.88 --> 3907.30] familiar with Docker and Docker compose to get to that world. |
[3907.72 --> 3912.14] But like Jared, even with line six kind of stumbled, him was like, well, what's happening |
[3912.14 --> 3912.36] here? |
[3912.42 --> 3914.08] Is there an image of you're hosting somewhere? |
[3914.30 --> 3917.14] And as you'd mentioned, you know, why your reasons why it makes sense. |
[3917.14 --> 3923.18] But I think if these are templates and they're, they're meant to be initial, you know, I guess |
[3923.18 --> 3926.94] initial exposure to how this works, like I want to write this myself. |
[3927.44 --> 3928.16] Would it be this simple? |
[3928.24 --> 3928.74] Probably not. |
[3928.84 --> 3933.62] I would probably reference similar to the way I would make a Docker compose file now, which |
[3933.62 --> 3937.76] is an image somewhere else and do all the different steps, that kind of thing. |
[3938.62 --> 3940.62] Anything left unsaid, Bridget? |
[3940.70 --> 3944.98] Anything you've been waiting for us to ask you and we just haven't got around to it because |
[3944.98 --> 3947.34] we're adults or have we covered it all? |
[3947.66 --> 3954.06] I feel like we covered all the key parts from, yeah, talking about what dev containers are, |
[3954.34 --> 3959.46] the open spec, of you getting excited about it and becoming endorsers for us here. |
[3959.70 --> 3961.72] So we've really come full circle. |
[3962.84 --> 3966.58] And put these sound bites on the homepage and really get people using it. |
[3966.94 --> 3967.48] Yeah, for sure. |
[3968.48 --> 3969.54] What's a good first step? |
[3969.62 --> 3974.18] If we're given the audience that maybe they've started out like us, you know, apprehensive at |
[3974.18 --> 3977.14] first and curious and learning and asking questions. |
[3977.24 --> 3981.38] And now we're sales folks for the dev containers spec. |
[3981.58 --> 3982.64] Now that's Jared and I. |
[3983.08 --> 3983.88] What about our listeners? |
[3984.02 --> 3986.72] So if they're new to this, they're like, OK, what's a good first step? |
[3986.78 --> 3987.76] Where do you tell people to go? |
[3988.24 --> 3990.16] Obviously, devcontainers.dev. |
[3990.24 --> 3991.90] But what's a good first step for someone to do? |
[3992.02 --> 3995.62] Would you say a template or will be a first try for someone? |
[3995.62 --> 4000.38] Yeah, I would say in an editor environment of your choosing. |
[4000.78 --> 4002.60] Talked about VS Code and Codespaces a lot. |
[4002.68 --> 4004.26] So those are great ones to start out with. |
[4004.68 --> 4010.50] Just try out adding a dev container and building within it and seeing like, hey, OK, like what, |
[4010.64 --> 4013.08] how does my interface look compared to what I'm used to locally? |
[4013.64 --> 4018.52] So we have commands for you to add dev container configuration files that should walk you through |
[4018.52 --> 4022.82] like, hey, the necessary steps and having those files in there and then kind of getting used |
[4022.82 --> 4025.02] to, OK, yeah, then I'll just reopen in my container. |
[4025.22 --> 4028.84] And then if I make a change to the configuration, I'll just make sure that I remember to rebuild. |
[4029.10 --> 4033.20] And like once you get up and running with it, just a couple of steps or commands there, |
[4033.80 --> 4035.34] it should hopefully be pretty straightforward. |
[4035.68 --> 4038.60] And then just from there, you can become even more productive in them. |
[4038.78 --> 4041.86] So recommend checking out with containers.dev. |
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