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**Adam Jacob:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a good example is - Keeb, who works for me, he has a bunch of stuff in Digital Ocean. And we didn't have Digital Ocean assets yet. And so he took the API doc from Digital Ocean, and he wrote maybe a three-page paper on how to translate that API document into assets in System Initiat... |
Or one of the demos we run for people is we build an infrastructure that they tell us -- they just tell us what they want, and then we turn it into a template, and then we ask the LLM to find the variables and be like "Hey, I want to drive the size of my infrastructure", or those sorts of things... And then have it pro... |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Adam Jacob:** But back to -- not to shill System Initiative too much, but to get back to things newspeople can use, or whatever... The thing we're doing there that you can take away with you is that the interaction loop is driven by humans talking to the LLM. So you could write that -- you can write those assets your... |
\[01:24:21.03\] But for a lot of things, you don't need that level; you just need it to work. And so if you just need it to work, the interface here now is like "Talk to a chatbot", and go to the agent and be like "Okay, do this thing for me." And then look at the results. And that's the loop everybody can have at this... |
**Jerod Santo:** It really is. Especially the lower the stakes, the better it is. The higher the stakes, and you start wanting some more harnesses. |
**Adam Jacob:** I mean, look, a human's got to be in the loop. One of the first things people wanted was autonomous agents... And another pithy thing I'm trying to make into a thing is that agents earn the right to autonomy. So you've got to earn the right to be autonomous by performing really well in human observation... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I kind of want autonomy with guardrails, and clear parameters... So within the world \[unintelligible 01:25:29.18\] for you to go and do, yes. Go and do some things. And most of the things I'm doing are not hard to roll back, so it's not \[unintelligible 01:25:38.05\] |
**Jerod Santo:** It's low stakes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That wasn't my fault, okay? \[unintelligible 01:25:41.25\] You know what I mean? So I want to create an idea or a world to live in, and say "Go nuts, get it done." You know, we've thought through it all, we've... You know, one of the last things that I do before I'm like "Okay, we can actually do th... |
**Adam Jacob:** Right. And it turns out it performs pretty good. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And it does. Yeah. But the last thing I ask it to do, even when I'm pretty sound in my belief, and I've read it myself, and "This is cool. Yes, let's go", is I say "Examine this for clarity and blind spots." |
**Adam Jacob:** Totally. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And there's so many times I'm like "Oh, my gosh..." I mean, again, I'm not solving AWS problems, kind of thing. It's more like small things... But we would have gone a different direction or wrong direction if I didn't ask it to examine it from a clarity and blind spots perspective. It's like, okay,... |
**Adam Jacob:** And how many other places could you do that? I don't know, but I want it in all of them. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I agree. That kind of capability for a human to -- |
**Adam Jacob:** So good. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And it's not that I don't want to think about it. It's like, I want to take my brain space while I tell you to do it, to go do the other parallel thing I'm doing, or to go and do this email thread, or this phone call, or this... Whatever I'm doing. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yes... That's why it's a different flow state. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Writing software in the background, essentially. Checking in when in when I have time... "Here's the plan, go do it..." Come back later, "Cool. Done." Yeah, it's so wild. |
**Adam Jacob:** \[01:27:56.14\] It's wild. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I can't imagine that's how software engineering is now, and how that's going to influence the future direction of how we engineer software. It's so wild. |
**Adam Jacob:** Right. Because that loop is the sudden loop we're optimizing. And we've just discovered it. You know what I mean? It's like we're using DOS, and there was no Windows. That's where we are in the life cycle of these tooling. And we want to believe we're not, because all the hype, and money, and... You kno... |
**Jerod Santo:** I just played Duken Nukem, mostly. I just played a lot of Duke Nukem. |
**Adam Jacob:** I loved Duke Nukem. |
**Jerod Santo:** So did I. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Who didn't love Duke Nukem? |
**Jerod Santo:** It's the best. It had to be the best. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. It was incredible. |
**Jerod Santo:** It was. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. Wing Commander was more my jam, but... |
**Jerod Santo:** And there's Duke Nukem Forever, which eventually did come out. I think it was 25 years later, or something like that... |
**Adam Jacob:** Did I play Duke Nukem Forever? I must have. |
**Jerod Santo:** I don't think anybody did. We all wanted it to come out, because it was a running joke. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I think it's been like 10 years or a decade, and it never actually manifested, or something like that... |
**Jerod Santo:** It was funny. And when it finally did, nobody cared. We're like "Yeah..." We moved on. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. Because we were like "Wah, wah, wah..." |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] The world has moved on. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I funded that Kickstarter... No way. |
**Adam Jacob:** And our humor group moved on... We were like ",Oh yeah, it turns out I don't actually want Duke Nukem anymore." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They actually renamed it to Duke Nukem Fornever. |
**Jerod Santo:** Fornever? \[laughter\] I like that. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. That's the way. Yeah. What could go wrong...? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So we're in Windows DOS... That's where we're at right now. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. Before -- I think we're in DOS. I think we're not even in Windows. |
**Jerod Santo:** There's no Windows. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's no windows. The tools I think we have available to us now as developers, that we want to have people leverage our tool more so in their agents is an NPC server, or this new skill \[unintelligible 01:30:10.09\] |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. In command lines, we're figuring all of that out. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Of course. |
**Adam Jacob:** Yeah. But once you realize how easy it is to build new tools, or to build new skills, and then plug them into -- you don't have to think about the loop anymore. You don't have to think about "Well, how am I dealing with agent memory, or the turns between submissions?" It was not that long ago where if y... |
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