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• The involvement of StackBlitz in Vite and the launch of Bolt |
• A side story about the launch of Bolt and its success |
• The creation of a documentary about Vue and the experience of being interviewed for it |
• Initial meeting with documentary filmmakers and discussion of their process |
• Creation of a documentary about Vite, supported by VoidZero and other sponsors |
• Discussion of the model used by the documentary filmmakers and their company, CultRepo |
• Evan You's experience working independently on Vue and its success with sponsorships |
• Reflection on the rarity of independent open source developers being able to sustain themselves through sponsorships |
• Challenges of open source sustainability and the difficulty of getting large corporations to contribute back to smaller open source projects |
• The issue of open source projects creating value for commercial entities without receiving proper support or compensation |
• The limitations of sponsorship models and the need for more decentralized and sustainable financial support for open source projects |
• The comparison between Vue and Vite in terms of sponsorship conversion and financial sustainability |
• The importance of making open source projects more visible and directly relatable to end users in order to increase support and contribution. |
• Vite's independence from Vue and its potential for sustainability |
• Leverage Vite as a gateway for ecosystem unification |
• Challenges of sustainability for open-source projects in the JavaScript ecosystem |
• VoidZero's business model: charging businesses for use of Vite+ tool chain |
• Unified JavaScript tool chain, including Vite, Vitest, linter, and bundler |
• Support for independent developers and small projects while targeting businesses for revenue |
• The development of Vite differs from Vue, with a more structured and goal-oriented approach. |
• Vite+ is a drop-in superset of Vite, adding capabilities such as ViteLinked, Vitest, and ViteBench. |
• Vite+ is currently in active development and will be showcased at ViteConf. |
• Vite+ will have a proprietary license, but the underlying components will remain open source. |
• Individual developers can use Vite+ without restrictions, but commercial users will need to obtain a license. |
• A separate license and pricing model will be announced for Vite+, with a focus on making it accessible to as many users as possible. |
• The goal of Vite+ is to create a sustainable and reproducible model for building and maintaining infrastructure tooling for the ecosystem. |
• Vite+ is a derivative of Vite, with a different license |
• Normalizing the acceptance of Vite+ in the corporate world is a goal |
• Vite is open source and Vite+ is source available |
• Technical details of Vite+ will be announced at ViteConf |
• A documentary about Vite is available to watch |
**Jerod Santo:** Today we have a special treat, it's Evan You from Vite. Welcome, Evan. |
**Evan You:** Hello. Nice to be here. |
**Jerod Santo:** Happy to have you. Now, as we record this, we're together, but as it ships out to our audience, you are going to be at the first ever in-person ViteConf. That has to be exciting... |
**Evan You:** Yeah, we're looking forward to it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Vite's come a long way, I think, since you first started it, to a live in-person conference with a CultRepo - formerly Honeypot - classic documentary as well shipping about Vite... You probably didn't have such grand ambitions when you first got started, did you? |
**Evan You:** Definitely not. Yeah, Vite really just started as -- similar to Vue, it started as this random idea, "What if I just do this?" And then just started hacking on it, and got something interesting, and then kept pushing on, and eventually, more people started using it. |
**Jerod Santo:** What was that idea? This is going back to the WebPack days... I think WebPack was the bundler of the day. And of course, that allowed a lot of things, but it was also complicated, and sometimes frustrating, and lots of configuration... What was the idea you originally had with Vite that was worth hacki... |
**Evan You:** Yeah, so the original idea -- so obviously, I worked on Vue for a long time, and for Vue we built this whole CLI that wraps WebPack, called Vue CLI... And one day, I was just trying to reproduce a Vue bug that a user reported, that came with this whole reproduction that requires running Vue CLI... And it ... |
So the first prototype of Vite was actually back in 2019, it was called vue-dev server, and it was really just a simple HTTP server that looks at the incoming request. If it's a Vue file, it'll just compile the Vue file on the fly, and send it back to the HTTP request. I had that prototype done very early on, played ar... |
That was also the time when more browsers started to support native ESM imports. So previously, if we were to write something like import foo from a file, we had to first bundle it with WebPack, because browsers couldn't just load native ESM. But in 2019, more browsers started to ship that. And that really got me start... |
So in 2020 -- the first prototype in 2019 actually got sort of... I dropped it aside because I couldn't figure out how to do hot module replacements with it. So I kept thinking on about it... I was also working on Vue 3 at the time, so that idea kind of stayed in sort of a prototype status for a very long time, until i... |
**Jerod Santo:** There were other contenders at the time, right? There were other people working on this problem. I remember Snowpack... |
**Evan You:** \[08:17\] Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** At some point there was one called Wmr... I'm not sure the timeframe of that one. |
**Evan You:** Yeah, I think -- yeah, Wmr was around the same time. Jason Miller worked on that. I think he also kind of worked on it in stealth for a bit of time. He kind of teased about it on Twitter. When it came out, I believe it was modeled after Rollup's API. That's also the source of inspiration for Vite to suppo... |
The interesting thing with Snowpack is we kind of went from very different directions. Vite started as this sort of "If we can load modules with native ESM and do hot module replacement..." And then we realized, "Okay, if we load every file this way, it will actually be slow." Because if you have a npm dependency that ... |
Snowpack started out as something that does exactly that. The first version of Snowpack was explicitly saying "Let's convert all your CJS dependencies into ESM." And then they later on added the capability to, say, transpile on the fly, and to do a hot module replacement... Essentially, they added on a dev server to th... |
**Jerod Santo:** And at a certain point, Vite kind of busted out from the notion, at least the one that I had, and I think others shared, that it was for Vue. Like, if you're not using Vue, Vite's usable, but really it's built for Vue. And that may have never been true, but the reputation was that, or just the associat... |
**Evan You:** Yeah, so the very first version of Vite was definitely for Vue only... But I think we got it to -- I was working on it halfway. So we got all the way up to -- there was a long period of like 0.X releases, and we got all the way up to 1.0 RC. |
At that time, the internals were still very specifically designed for Vue. For example, the whole compilation logic of handling Vue single file components was directly inside Vite itself for version one. And it was kind of an afterthought that we added this additional way of transpiling, say, TypeScript. And in version... |
And I was then looking-- before we shipped 1.0 I was looking at this whole API design and I realized, "Okay--" That was the point when I also started looking into Wmr a bit more, and I realized, "Look, Wmr is actually having this plugin container, that abstracts away the plugin hosting interface for Rollup..." So you c... |
\[12:33\] So we realized, okay, if we do that too in Vite, we can support not just Vue components; we can support TypeScript, we can support TSX, JSX... We can support even Svelte. So that got me started thinking about refactoring the way we handle these custom file formats, and that eventually lead to a complete rewri... |
**Jerod Santo:** Really? |
**Evan You:** Yeah. I was like "We've got to just completely rethink this." So I started a whole rewrite. That eventually became v2. And that rewrite took another three to four months, I believe. |
**Jerod Santo:** So you never shipped one, but then you shipped two? |
**Evan You:** Yeah, we just went directly to v2. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] And how long did you say that the difference was in timing between the two, the RC and the v2? |
**Evan You:** I can't remember the exact date we started working on RC, but I first talked about the idea in like April 2020. That was like the first 0.x version of Vite. And Vite 2 was shipped in February 2021. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. So I remember this part from the documentary... So I was able to see a rough cut of the doc, and Fred Schott, who's the Snowpack author - and I'm sure a friendly competitor at the time; you know, you have the spirit of open source competition, but everyone's kind of rooting for everyone... At lea... |
**Evan You:** Yeah. Actually, looking back at the days, I think the idea of dropping RC and just go directly to 2.0 was like -- it started exactly in December, 2020. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, okay. |
**Evan You:** At the start of December. |
**Jerod Santo:** So people were still waiting for 1.0... |
**Evan You:** Yeah, people were waiting. |
**Jerod Santo:** I mean, extensively. They're like "Man, this is the longest release candidate ever." \[laughter\] |
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