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**Evan You:** Yeah. It never landed. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Never landed. And then here comes 2.0. So at that point, did you get the groundswell of adoption and support, once 2.0 hit? Was that when Vite really started to -- because I mean, the adoption story since then has been astronomical, hasn't it? |
**Evan You:** Yeah. I think 2.0 really was the real starting point of -- real momentum in terms of adoption. Because people saw -- people knew about Vite 1, before 2.0. Some people were already using it, excited about it, but 2.0 was really the version that made people realize "Okay this is more than just for Vue. It c... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[16:04\] That's a beautiful thing, because there's fractals of frameworks in the JavaScript community, and each one for a long time had their own build tools, their own Webpack thing... Or like Vite did. You guys were like "Well, we're going to build one for Vue." And then eventually, it's nice to see... |
**Evan You:** Yeah. I mean, that definitely took some time. I think Svelte was the earliest sort of non-Vue framework to embrace Vite... Rich Harris was working on SvelteKit at that time. SvelteKit was initially built on top of Snowpack. So when we were working on Vite, I think at one point the Svelte team eventually d... |
**Jerod Santo:** So what was your own trajectory like with regard to Vue.js and Vite? I don't know your history around -- did you leave the Vue project, or are you still -- |
**Evan You:** We're still working on it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Are you still working on the Vue project? |
**Evan You:** Yeah. I spend a lot less time directly on Vue myself. We do have other team members still working on features and maintaining it... But the reason we created Vite was because I wanted to use it with Vue. So obviously, we switched all the default tilting of Vue over to Vite. |
So the Vue plugin was actually exactly what I used to validate the design of our plugin interface. And later on, we also have Nuxt, which was the main meta framework in the Vue ecosystem. So Nuxt 3 was in development when Vite 2 was introduced. Originally, it was, again, built on top of WebPack. So when they found out ... |
**Break:** \[19:17\] |
**Jerod Santo:** One of the things that I'm very impressed by you, Evan, is your ability to foster communities around your projects. And you've had so many -- I mean, even Vite has so many amazing contributors. Anthony Fu, Matias Capeletto... I don't remember his last name, Patak... Those are just two examples of a lot... |
**Evan You:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Is that something you do intentionally? Did that just kind of happen? How do you get these amazing devs to come alongside? And then Vue is maintained and continued being worked on largely by people that aren't yourself. That's an accomplishment. How do you do that? |
**Evan You:** To be honest, with the two projects I kind of handled things a bit differently. With Vue, I would say we're really lucky to have -- first of all, for any project to have capable and ambitious contributors stepping up. It's something you kind of -- you're lucky to have any kind of these people, regardless ... |
In a lot of ways, I think for the Vue project it's very organic. We don't really do any sort of -- we don't do any sort of like trying to ask for contributions, or try to find people explicitly to do these things most of the time. We noticed a pattern. If someone is already very, actively involved, they seem to be pass... |
Obviously, there's the financial part of it, too. Vue is still independent. We have a decent number of sponsorships, and we redistribute them among the team members. So many of the maintainers who work on Vue now, they are sponsored through our Open Collective, or directly through GitHub Sponsors. So we basically redis... |
\[24:00\] We have quite a few people on the team who've been with us for close to a decade. So Edoardo, who maintains the router, and Pinia, our official statement management library - he's been with us like forever. One of the earliest to join, and he's still working on things. And we also have people who've maybe con... |
**Jerod Santo:** That's how it works, right? |
**Evan You:** Yeah. So it's a combination of people who joined, and just stick around, or people who joined and left, but they still left something really valuable to the project. So for Vue, it's very -- I would say it's very unintentional. Like, we're really lucky to have these people. |
**Jerod Santo:** It kind of just happened. |
**Evan You:** Yeah, it kind of just happened. For Vite, I would say it's a bit different, because I think once it shipped to version two, I was aware that now I have to basically split my attention between Vue and Vite. So my original plan was "I'm going to go back to focus on Vue", because we still hadn't shipped Vue ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Was anybody mad about that? |
**Evan You:** I don't know. I think it turned out to be a net positive. You wait a bit longer for Vue 3, but you end up also having Vite. But the idea was "Okay, I need to go back and focus on Vue 3 now, so I need someone to sort of help me take care of Vite, in a way." So I made an explicit post, I said, "Okay we're s... |
So yeah, so Matias became the very -- I think he was literally the first team member, and also played a very critical role in the initial sort of growing the community and making these additional team members feel they are being welcomed and appreciated. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. I've met Matias. He is very good at that. Lots of enthusiasm, lots of care and kindness. It just kind of oozes out of the guy. |
**Evan You:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** When you go in to offer him something like that, what is the Vite side? What's the offer? What does he get? Do you get your name on the core team? Do you get this, that, or the other thing? Is there some sort of formalization of what that looks like, or is it just like "Hey, why don't you do more of wh... |
**Evan You:** I think for the initial -- when we set up the team, it was purely voluntary. We were basically saying, "Okay, you get to call yourself a team member, and that's it." |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Which is not nothing. |
**Evan You:** \[27:42\] Yeah. But yeah, it was very much like "You're already doing this, so we just want to want you to keep doing this for the recognition of being a team member." We have no plans around how it will turn out in the long run, but I think a very lucky -- also, a very lucky event happened, because Stack... |
**Jerod Santo:** Quick side story on StackBlitz - we had them on JS Party a couple of times, because doing cool stuff in the browser... And the second time, I think, or maybe the third time that one of them came on, it was to talk about a tutorial kit. Tomek Sułkowski came on. And after that show, he's like "Hey, we ha... |
**Evan You:** Totally. |
**Jerod Santo:** But they had no -- I mean, he's just like "This is a little side project we're doing, check it out." And I'm like "This thing's pretty cool." And he's like "Yeah, we're gonna ship it next week. We'll let you know how it goes." And now they've renamed. You know, it's formerly StackBlitz -- I mean, it's ... |
**Evan You:** Yeah. They actually debuted Bolt at ViteConf. They also showed me like a week before. And I was like "Well, this looks cool, but I'm not sure how far this is going to go." Because I think initially, the -- at that time, I was still a bit skeptical about the general capabilities of LLMs in general. But eve... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. That's funny, because when he showed it to me, I thought the same thing. I'm like "This is neat." It seemed like a kind of a cool toy, was my thought. "This seems like a good example of something that the StackBlitz team could do." |
But I never expected it to be like a product that would just take over their entire company. So congrats to them, of course... And I'm sure they were pleasantly surprised that it went so well. |
**Evan You:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** So what about this documentary? This is the second time you've been documentary-tized. Didn't they do a Vue.js documentary? |
**Evan You:** They did. It's actually from the same team. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, exact same team. Round two. What is that process like, as like -- an everyday hacker, all of a sudden it's like, put on some nice clothes, going to get interviewed in front of hot lights, and stuff...? Is this something that you enjoy, you put up with because it's good for the projects? How do yo... |
**Evan You:** Yeah, again, the two times - it's the same team, but it feels quite different. For the Vue one, the team was largely sponsored by Honeypot. And when they came to us -- when they came to me about the Vue idea, I was like "Sure, sounds great." Because Vue was -- I think the Vue documentary was done... I can... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Evan You:** And then we I think we met again, when I was speaking at LaraCon in New York, 2019. They went to the LaraCon venue and filmed a bunch of stuff there. Taylor Otwell was actually in that documentary, too. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, nice. |
**Evan You:** \[31:58\] But they were very professional back then. I mean, the director, Josiah, he's amazing. The thing is, they are able to not only make fancy edits, but also, they actually understand the story behind these things. They ask the right questions, and they're able to properly tell the story behind the ... |
So they approached me, and basically just tried to ask me, "Do you have any ideas? Can you introduce us to some companies or projects that would be looking to make documentaries about their technologies?" And I was like "Hey, we can make one about Vite." |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Evan You:** And they were like "Wait, this sounds like a great idea. We should totally do this." |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. So you and/or VoidZero - you bankrolled it, basically? Or how does it work? |
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