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**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. But Vite and its subcomponents, they all remain open source licensed? |
**Evan You:** Yes. |
**Jerod Santo:** And so this new Vite+ will have its own proprietary license that you will tell more details about at ViteConf, right? |
**Evan You:** Yeah, yeah. So we'll probably call it source-available still. So you'll be able to look at the source code, open issues on GitHub, and everything. But we're trying to come up with a license that would make as many people able to use it freely as possible, but still allow us to capture value from the right... |
**Jerod Santo:** Mm-hm. And if this project succeeds, you believe or you hope that it will be reproducible by other people, right? Whereas the previous one, Evan succeeded with Vue and with that sponsorship support, but it wasn't really a pattern that people could necessarily follow, unless they were also outliers... |
**Evan You:** Yup. |
**Jerod Santo:** But your hope with VoidZero, it seems, and with Vite this time around, is "What if we can build something in such a way that you could take that pattern and perhaps in your neck of the woods or your little open source area of the world, reproduce it and create a sustainable project"? |
**Evan You:** Yeah. If we can sort of be the first example of that, we can also normalize the acceptance of such a model in the corporate world, where... You know, there will probably be some challenges for companies to sort of realize "Okay, this thing is actually using a different license." And if we can make this mo... |
**Jerod Santo:** So Vite is open source and Vite+ is source available. |
**Evan You:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Cool. Well, I hope it works. I'm excited to hear more as you announce the details at ViteConf. I appreciate all the efforts you've put in over the years, and I guess the trailblazing that you've done with Vue, and now with Vite; hopefully, VoidZero is yet another trail blazed, and one that people can f... |
**Evan You:** Thank you. |
**Jerod Santo:** Anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to get on the record, or say to the open source world before I let you go? |
**Evan You:** Uhm, probably not. I mean, I probably said more than I was planning to, but... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Evan You:** But yeah, we were planning to announce all of this at ViteConf anyway, so... Yeah. Well, there will be a lot more details on the technical front; how Vite+ feels, how it works and everything at the conference, so make sure to tune in. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, I will have to wait, but nobody else will have to. By the time this is out to our listener and to our viewer, check out ViteConf, check out the Vite documentary, because it's out there, it's to be watched... I've seen a rough cut and it's very good, you're going to enjoy it. So definitely tune in... |
**Evan You:** Thank you. |
• Low-level firmware development for computer systems, specifically the initial power-on sequence |
• Comparison with BIOS and understanding of the role of smaller processors in enabling larger processors to turn on |
• Use of custom-built boards and a "first principles" approach to design |
• Writing culture and documentation practices at Oxide, including Request for Discussion (RFD) and living documentation |
• Cliff Biffle's experience with Rust programming language and its adoption at Oxide |
• Cliff Biffle's background and interest in Rust, starting from his work at Google in 2015 |
• Product not suitable for the speaker |
• Building an engineering org from scratch |
• The team's use of Rust for software development |
• The Helios operating system and its use of C |
• Comparison of Rust with Go and its suitability for firmware development |
• Hubris operating system and its development process |
• Tock operating system and its limitations for the speaker's needs |
• The growth and deployment of the Hubris operating system |
• Hubris kernel is approximately 1,000 lines of code but requires additional components to be useful |
• Hubris runs on various devices, from sub-$50 microcontrollers to large service processors |
• Multiple instances of Hubris exist on a full rack system, including service processors, root of trust, and manufacturing tools |
• There are around 20-30 copies of Hubris across a full rack system |
• The reasons for multiple copies include security requirements and the need for a separate root of trust |
• Cliff Biffle mentions the possibility of merging the service processor and root of trust functions in the future |
• Oxide may start making its own chips in the future, possibly through a collaboration with AMD |
• Hubris is open-source and used by several companies, including some startups and Volvo, although Volvo is hesitant to contribute due to certification requirements |
• The developers mention that more work needs to be done to make Hubris more user-friendly for non-Oxide customers |
• The team discusses issues with fans malfunctioning in the building, which can be caused by software crashes or firmware updates gone wrong |
• Discussion of a chip and its fan kicking up due to a watchdog service processor issue |
• Comparison of working at Oxide to being in a TV show, specifically referencing The Office and Silicon Valley |
• Personal anecdote about the CEO being based on a real person and having a monkey |
• Conversation about the potential of Oxide being featured in a TV show |
• Discussion of churn at Oxide, with reasons including personal preferences, remote work not working for some, and past work trauma |
• Mention of uniform compensation and its benefits for employees |
• The benefits of a uniform compensation system, where everyone is paid the same amount of dollars |
• Cliff Biffle's experience with salary disparities at Google, and how he likes the fairness of the current system |
• The role of equity and ownership in the company, and how it contributes to a sense of being "all in this together" |
• The company's hierarchy and management structure, and how Cliff views being a manager as a role, not a position of authority |
• The process of updating the Oxide system, and the challenges of making it self-service and automatic |
• Mupdate is a procedure for updating the software on compute sleds |
• The priority was to have a robust support procedure for recovering the software on any compute sled, regardless of state |
• The update process is complex, involving hundreds of components, including software updates to service processors, root of trust, bootloader software, host OS, and control plane software |
• The update process is simplified for operators, who only need to think about policy, not the underlying software updates |
• The update system involves downloading a large zip file (2-3 gigs) from the company's download site and uploading it to the rack via API |
• The process is designed to accommodate air gaps, where the rack is not connected to the internet |
• The company's Hubris operating system is one of the components updated as part of the Mupdate process, which talks to the service processor to update other components. |
• The challenge of updating software at a low layer, such as BIOS, which is not designed to be interacted with by automation. |
• The company's goal of delivering non-disruptive updates without rebooting customer VMs, currently achieved by live-migrating VMs to other sleds while updating. |
• The complexity of mechanically moving VMs to other sleds, which is a bin packing problem, and ensuring there is enough capacity to do so. |
• The need to create an experience for operators that communicates the trade-offs of keeping capacity free for updates versus allowing the possibility of updates being paused. |
• The potential for failed updates in the self-service world when a new version is released. |
• Non-disruptive updates |
• Challenges with intermediate states in self-service updates |
• Ordering of updates to prevent backwards compatibility issues |
• Sleds failing or being unavailable during updates |
• Automation and testing to prevent update failures |
• Point of no return and rollback issues |
• Downtime required for updates |
• Non-disruptive updates for future development |
• Hot swapping and avoiding reboots |
• Upgrading software and potential risks |
• Bifurcated code paths and their consequences |
• Guardrails for change management to prevent failures |
• Novel testing strategies, including fuzzing and property-based testing |
• Updates as a project, including challenges and timelines |
• Self-service updates and non-disruptive updates |
• The acquisition of Joyent and the formation of a new vision for the company |
• The role of Rust in facilitating the development of reliable and automated systems |
• The use of the RFD (Request for Discussion) process for collaboration and feedback |
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