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**Dave Pacheco:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright, fine. Bad idea. |
**Dave Pacheco:** The thing you asked about, like my nightmare, right? The upgrade just explodes, and we're toast. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Dave Pacheco:** Another thing that we've done there is try to create a lot of guardrails around the types of changes that we can make to the software, so that we know if we're making a change that's going to break things. So for example, if you're changing the database schema, we know that you're changing that, and w... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Dave Pacheco:** And you go deploy it and it blows up in the middle. It's like, we've tested the end point, we've tested the beginning point, and we just got unlucky in one of these intermediate states that wasn't tested... And so we've tried to identify the kinds of changes that would cause those problems, and then d... |
**Jerod Santo:** That's cool. Any newer novel testing strategies that you've had to come up with as far as this? I don't know, fuzzing, or deterministic testing, or anything that's... |
**Dave Pacheco:** \[48:00\] That's probably the biggest one. The other thing I would point to is that sort of distinction between the plan and execute stuff. We haven't actually gotten to this kind of thing, but one of the things we want to do with that is like property-based testing on the planner, where you're basica... |
**Jerod Santo:** Make sure it does that, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You were supposed to give a talk today... |
**Dave Pacheco:** Yup. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It got rescheduled... |
**Dave Pacheco:** That's true. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We're not going to be here for it... |
**Dave Pacheco:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...so you have to spill the beans. |
**Dave Pacheco:** Yeah, so let's see. What was I going to talk about? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Updates... \[laughter\] |
**Dave Pacheco:** So I've been doing this for a couple of years... |
**Jerod Santo:** Update on the update. |
**Dave Pacheco:** We have a surprising number of new faces... And so part of that talk is literally the stuff we were just talking about, like "What is update?" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What is it? |
**Dave Pacheco:** Well, we've got a couple hundred components that we've got to replace, and... Pick your metaphor, or whatever. And so part of it is just like laying that out. And what we do today... The stuff we've been talking about - why this is a problem for customers, what we're doing, current status of that, whi... |
That's been really a challenge the whole time, is like "What's the next step?" There's so many steps, and there's so many circular dependencies in those steps that you're like "Well, I've got this other important problem over here. Maybe I'll just kind of solve that." And that's fine. Sometimes that's the right call. B... |
**Jerod Santo:** Over and over again... |
**Dave Pacheco:** ...even 20% of the time... Right, exactly. You just never get there. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You timeline stretches. |
**Jerod Santo:** How close is it? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** He said very soon. Didn't you hear him? |
**Dave Pacheco:** Yeah. \[unintelligible 00:50:07.27\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Within the next month, or...? |
**Dave Pacheco:** That's the plan... \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** That's not a year away, though. |
**Dave Pacheco:** No, no, no, no, no. This was two years ago I was worried about it. Two years ago, I think I was like perpetually a year or two away. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, I saw the roadmap this morning, I saw last year's roadmap... It's not a roadmap -- |
**Dave Pacheco:** Did you diff them and see \[unintelligible 00:50:26.02\] |
**Jerod Santo:** One of the things was Update, and then the priority this year is Update... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[unintelligible 00:50:32.28\] which was first. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...so ongoing... |
**Dave Pacheco:** Accurate. |
**Jerod Santo:** But almost ready. |
**Dave Pacheco:** Yup. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Almost ready. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's cool. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, why you? So we had a side conversation... He's been with Brian almost his whole career. |
**Jerod Santo:** Really? |
**Dave Pacheco:** That's true. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sun, to Oracle, the acquisition, and then Joyent... And then what makes you uniquely positioned for this task, this quest? |
**Dave Pacheco:** I don't know if I'm uniquely positioned, but right after we shipped the MVP, this was one of my big worries about the products... And I was like "This is something I think I have a lot of experience with", in terms of building distributed systems, and reliable automation, and things like that. And so ... |
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