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**Adam Stacoviak:** That is true. |
**Jim Remsik:** I did not join after we started talking... But that's the problem, I'd rather -- here's the thing... Early Twitter days, everybody was in one spot, and there weren't alternatives, there weren't other people doing the same thing. Now there are too many. You've got BlueSky, Mastodon, Instagram, Threads, L... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow. |
**Jim Remsik:** How do you find people? And that's on top of like individual Discords, and Zulips, and Slacks... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Well, I did with Discord what you do with Zulip. Anytime somebody says "Join my Discord", I'm like "Nope." I'm just not going to do this Discord. I just decided to nope out of all Discords. I'm not going to do it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I mean, I have an account, and I'm a part of like two, but it's such -- I don't even understand how to use it. I feel like I'm old, or something. I'm like "How does this work?" |
**Jerod Santo:** Discord just feels like it's more about them than me. |
**Jim Remsik:** Discord, I definitely struggle with. I think I have about 72 Discord accounts that don't seem connected to any other thing that I know or do... And every time I join, it's like "Oh, you're a new person." I'm like "No, I'm the same person." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, their join process is horrible. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's like the old days XKCD about the protocols, because right now I'm about to say "What we need is one new place, where we're all going to go, and then we'll be happy." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And that will be the place that no one goes. \[laughter\] |
**Jim Remsik:** That's LinkedIn? |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, that's what Adam just said. LinkedIn is-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Maybe. Maybe. I mean, I like LinkedIn. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's Instagram for olds? Is that what you're saying, Adam? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[01:05:51.19\] No, I think Instagram is for everybody. I just thought that maybe more people would gravitate towards LinkedIn. I know I'm -- I probably check LinkedIn several times a week, whereas Instagram, I'm on there maybe, maybe once. And it's just really just to look at my wife sharing our li... |
**Jerod Santo:** Same. Same. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And watch what she shares on there about our life. That's the only reason I go to Instagram. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. To look at her pictures. Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, that's it. That's Instagram for me. So I mean, there you go. But... |
**Jim Remsik:** I've definitely taken the tact of trying to not add another protocol, but just drop them. So I've never even wound up on Threads.. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, same. I was like "No, I don't think so, man... Is this a version of Facebook I want to be involved in?" Threads just never made sense to me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. I've given Zuck enough in my life, you know... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It was an also ran. It was an also ran that just didn't run. I don't know. There's a lot of people there... |
**Jim Remsik:** I was going to say... |
**Jerod Santo:** There's people there, but they're not real people, I don't think... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A bunch of bots... |
**Jerod Santo:** No offense to those people, but they're just like -- |
**Jim Remsik:** Kara Swisher is going to be upset with you, Jerod. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yes, she might. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, gosh... |
**Jerod Santo:** But you know, she's cross posting to everywhere. Come on. |
**Jim Remsik:** True. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's what people with big follower accounts do, is they just -- every new thing, they're on it, because they want to get that follower count up. And then they just cross-post the same crap across all of it. |
**Jim Remsik:** I feel seen... \[laughter\] I've been cross-posting stuff for XO lately, and... Yeah, you're not lying. |
**Jerod Santo:** No. I mean, what else are you going to do? You want to go where the people are, and now the people are in seven different places... And so you're just like "Well, I guess we'll post to seven different places... But we're not going to be happy about it." So no allegiances anymore. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I know I asked you what was your motivation, but I think maybe a different version of that is... What is success of this for you? Like, when you're done with the roadshow, it's December, maybe you're sitting on your couch and you're getting ready for Christmas and you're reflecting on your year, and... |
**Jim Remsik:** There's a dirty secret in all of this, which is I have run out of -- we haven't heard from my wife in the other room this entire thing, but this might be the one thing... I have run out of clients under this roof, that I need to go out and meet people. And so part of this is a sales trip, right? Like, t... |
But the bigger goal would be for people to -- there have been people who've had whole careers over the last five years that haven't had access to local conferences. That don't understand that you can talk to somebody and get access to opportunities that they didn't know existed, because they weren't in the same physica... |
I just talked to somebody right before this call, and they said "I've been on the market for nine months, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong... What do you recommend?" And I sent them a ticket to Atlanta. So they're going to show up in Atlanta, and hopefully they'll walk away with a connection that leads to work, or... |
\[01:09:50.05\] That's really the goal, is to get people on stage that have never spoken before. Get people to understand that there is a unique serendipity that is only available if you show up. I've got a friend and mentor, Martin Atkins. He's a musician. He always says "Awesome stuff happens when you do stuff. Nothi... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's good. |
**Jim Remsik:** You're never going to find opportunity. It doesn't just show up at your door and say "Hey, do you want a job?" That doesn't happen. There was a time where that happened, in the 2010s... But that is no longer the case. And so you've got to go out, you've got to meet a lot of people, because not all of th... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Can we unpack that? The "Run out of clients under this roof" comment. Can we unpack that a bit more? Can you go there with us. |
**Jim Remsik:** Yeah. I mean, I've been doing consulting since 2011. I've been either an owner, or part owner, going back to 2007. My wife is one of my clients, and she's in the other room. I've reached the limit of what I can sell her on... And so now I've got to go out in the real world and get other clients for us t... |
So I've got to go out and find people that are looking for the skills that me and my team have. And at this point, we're largely doing Rails and Hotwire. We've got some React and TypeScript folks... But we're about half and half design and development. That is product design, UX, UI, all the way up to branding and illu... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is this a ChatGPT thing of three years ago thing? Like, a decline since then? I know we all went through the pandemic and there's lots of crazy change up, and then it was a whole different world, and then it was back down to the new old world again kind of thing, where it was back the way it was... ... |
**Jim Remsik:** Yeah, I think the -- I mean, I don't think that we have a unique story. We grew during the pandemic, we were up to almost 20 people, we're down to 10 right now... And we are keeping our nose above water. But part of it is, unless you're going out and meeting new people, it's hard to get people to find y... |
\[01:14:21.16\] That's the part of meeting a lot of people that -- it's not that I'm out there doing a little jig so that everybody knows that I can do the jig. You just -- you've got to show up. And after a while, people just know that "That's Jim. He's going to show up. If you've got a problem with Rails, or if you'r... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That makes sense. And so your world is shrinking because of the -- I would say probably... You run the event, but is the lack of getting out there and meeting people outside of the Madison bubble, is kind of what I hear you saying. It's like, you want to go beyond Madison. |
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