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**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Or the Tom Cruise -- Top Gun... |
**Jerod Santo:** Or Tom Cruise, yeah. I mean, pick -- I'm not sure who would play you, Sugu, but you're coming out of retirement for this, because like "We've got to get --" What is it, like Armageddon? ...where like "It has to be these people." Which was funny, because those were like oil drillers, weren't they? |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** It was an interesting setup. But you know, they come out of retirement for that one last mission... You know, "I'm getting too old for this" is a common thing they say... And here you are. But you're coming out with Supabase. I mean, it's a different story. Supabase came from where? Obviously, the Post... |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** So I actually engaged with Copple on a whim, saying \[unintelligible 00:45:41.29\] So when I said "This problem needs to be solved, and needs to be solved now", my first thought was "I should start a company me. Let me do a startup." I actually started looking for co-founders, you know... I was e... |
\[46:16\] Then I thought, "What am I trying to achieve this time? I'm not trying to maximize profitability. What I want to achieve is give this project the best chance for it to succeed." And I was thinking, "If I do it as a startup, I'm bringing so much risk and so much distraction." Because then I will have to make s... |
So I thought of that, I said "Maybe there is value in not going all the way to a big company, but at least a company that can pay people well, still give them a good upside..." And so I thought "I'll start talking to some people who are in the startup stage and see where they are." And that's how I engaged with Copple.... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. \[unintelligible 00:48:17.14\] open source. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Even in YouTube, we kind of had to push hard to open source Vitess. For me, the success of an open source project is adoption. Open source and adoption is true success. And that's exactly what Paul believed in, Copple. So it was so perfect... And talking to him about all the other values, it was ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Nice. So it's not exactly like the movies... Because in the movies, he would have sent out his henchman to find you, and you would have been like -- |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** "Oh, I don't want to come back." \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. You would have been like fixing up some old boat, or practicing Tai Chi, and they would have found you... And you wouldn't have wanted to, but you had to to save the planet, you know... But in this case, you actually reached out. |
You were ready to solve this problem once and for all Postgres users. And so that does make sense. I think that jives, Adam, with my impression of Paul and Supabase. Does that make sense to you? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I like the fact that it's Postgres-native, open source... I mean, that's the roots that Paul shared here. I think he said "The board of directors will have to fire me or pry this role from my cold dead hands --" One of those -- something elaborate like that to express his love for open source ... |
**Jerod Santo:** So how did it go from there? So he hired you, he's given you a team now, and he says "Have this on my desk in six months", or how does it work? |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** I'm giving myself about three to six months to come up with an MVP. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay... |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** \[50:06\] It may vary. The reason why it may vary is because of my -- I don't want to compromise on the long-term plan. So if for the sake of delivery I feel like I'm deviating too much from where I want to go, I would rather delay the delivery. But I don't think it'll take us longer than three t... |
The idea is that from there, it should only be iterations, no major changes. Like, that's the reason why I want to make the right decisions today, so that it becomes iterative from then on. So that is the oversimplified plan, but I'm pretty sure we'll have -- there are about five big features that we want to launch in ... |
**Jerod Santo:** So is Go still on the menu then? Or does that not quite get you Postgres-native enough? I'm not sure if you can write -- |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Which one? |
**Jerod Santo:** Golang. Can you write Postgres extensions in Go, or do you have to use the Cgo...? Or how does that work? |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** So that's the part that we are debating about. I don't want to start a brainstorm here, but I can tell you what we are talking about... \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sometimes that happens... |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Yeah, yeah. So one option we are looking at is now Cgo. Like, if you have an extension, can we link to call you through Cgo, is one thought that we are having. The other thought we are having is, well, AI is so good nowadays... Can we like translate this for you, and run it as an extension within... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** There's the other crazy idea, which is not translate; leave Go and do it in C, directly. So all cards are on the table. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** The last one is the least liked one at this point, but it doesn't matter. Whatever is the right solution. |
**Jerod Santo:** Whatever gets the job done. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** So that's fun. It's gotta be fun to be back at square one, to a certain extent, with a technical problem in front of you now. Like, a big, gnarly technical problem that's going to take three to six months for an MVP, and much longer if it's successful... Just to be back where you started, but in a diff... |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Yeah, and the best part is I get to fix all the mistakes I made in the previous project. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, yeah...! |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** What about the mistakes you're going to make this time? That's the problem. \[laughter\] |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** You know, v2 is perfect always, right? |
**Jerod Santo:** That's right. You're not going to make any bad decisions this time around. Yeah, that's gotta feel good, because there's so many landmines that you just can avoid this time around. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Yeah, yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's awesome. What's your team looking like? Who are you looking for? Are you looking for hardcore Postgres people, or did you hire from Vitess? |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** There are some -- so I cannot name names yet, because some of them are still in the pipeline... But it's a pretty exciting, pretty high-caliber team. Some are older Vitess contributors. There's a diaspora of Vitess contributors. Some are from there. And some are actually people that have handled ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Cool. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** But the hiring is looking very good at this point. I'm pretty optimistic. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[54:09\] What is implementation like in this new world? Is that still to be found out as you make these choices that have long-term permutations into maintainability, et cetera? Like, how will -- like, I know for the most part how Supabase works as a service. But if I wanted to use what you're call... |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** So in this, I should talk about something that we did in Vitess, which we are not going to do in Multigres. Vitess actually is what you would categorize as one of the most flexible enterprise solutions you can ever think of. If you went and asked a question to Vitess, "I want to change this very ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Do you know how that will manifest inside of Supabase? Or is that more on the Supabase product team to decide? Will that be invisible to Supabase customers? |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Yes, absolutely. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. It makes sense. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** The idea is what we are going to be building is a Kubernetes operator. So if you want to deploy it yourself without Kubernetes, you may have to do a few things for yourself. But if you just took Multigres and use the operator, you specify "This is what I want", and then the entire cluster comes a... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[57:52\] Right. And they have to be operating at a significant enough scale that they can act as a test ground for you, I would think... Or maybe they can't do that with their customers, but... I'm just thinking, you had YouTube to build Vitess with. And that was awesome. You had a real scaled databas... |
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