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**Jerod Santo:** I haven't seen Airplane for years. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I mean, don't call me Shirley, okay? |
**Jerod Santo:** Exactly. Good stuff. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, good stuff. Sugu, thanks for coming back from retirement for this. I know that -- I mean, considering what you've just said, that there's no way out, that sharding is the only way... I mean, you're coming back at the right time... |
**Jerod Santo:** Saving the Postgres world... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...I think you're coming back to the right team, with the right motives, at the right time... And somewhat full disclosure, Jerod and I are both angel investors in Supabase, so we kind of have this desire for our own upside, but like technologically, this would be amazing for Supabase to essentially... |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** I am excited, too. |
**Jerod Santo:** Get building, man. Get building. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Get building. |
**Jerod Santo:** Alright. Thanks, Sugu. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Bye, Sugu. |
**Sugu Sougoumarane:** Thank you. |
• Bert Hubert's early career as a hacker who landed his first job at a cable internet provider in the Netherlands |
• Scaling an internet service provider from 50 to 50,000 users and the lessons learned from that experience |
• The importance of professionalizing and figuring out scaling issues, rather than relying on amateur solutions |
• The concept of "unplugging" redundant systems to test their true resilience |
• The value of chaos engineering and testing the limits of one's systems to prepare for real-world failures |
• The personal growth and learning that comes from having people depend on one's services, and the challenges that come with it. |
• Experience with mail servers and queues |
• Building a parliamentary monitoring system to track changes in Dutch law |
• Observations on how the Dutch parliament's open data policy has allowed for innovation and ease of access to government documents |
• Issues with software for blind people accessing government documents, and how Bert's site has made it easier for them |
• Problems with passwordless login and Microsoft's security scanner attempting to log in on behalf of users |
• Microsoft's new behavior of executing JavaScript and posting on behalf of users, and the need for a button to be clicked to complete the login process |
• Government documents and data are often in PDF format, which is difficult to process |
• XML format is often used by governments, and can be easily processed and queried |
• The Dutch government's parliamentary proceedings are logged in XML, allowing for analysis and statistics to be generated |
• Government politics in the Netherlands are relatively calm compared to the US |
• The Dutch government does not have a filibuster, and politicians can be ranked by verbosity |
• The concept of the "haka" is discussed, a traditional Maori performance from New Zealand that involves song, dance, and protest |
• The importance of long-term software development is discussed, and Bert Hubert's experiences and learnings are mentioned |
• The importance of simplicity in software development for long-term projects |
• The risks of relying on modern software development practices that prioritize flexibility and speed over stability and maintainability |
• The value of investing in long-term employees and knowledge retention |
• The need for good documentation to compensate for employee turnover |
• The dangers of building complex software that is prone to fragility and errors |
• The importance of choosing dependencies wisely and avoiding over-reliance on third-party libraries and frameworks |
• The importance of simplicity in programming and how it's often overlooked in favor of complexity. |
• The need to deal with the consequences of one's own code and the "impenetrable" nature of some programming languages. |
• The tendency for developers to avoid dealing with the mess they create by passing it off to others or leaving the organization before the issues arise. |
• The concept of YAGNI (You Ain't Gonna Need It) and how anticipating complexity can lead to unnecessary code. |
• The difficulty of cleaning up complex code and the importance of giving oneself time to do so. |
• A case study of PowerDNS, a software that was simplified after adding complexity for DNSSEC support, and how this process was crucial to its success. |
• Rare examples of software companies taking a year to focus on maintenance and cleanup rather than new features |
• Benefits of proactive software maintenance, including stability and performance improvements |
• Examples of companies that have successfully implemented a "spring cleaning" approach, such as Apple's Snow Leopard |
• Importance of scheduling maintenance and testing, including unit tests and regression tests |
• Dangers of ignoring dependencies and allowing them to become outdated or vulnerable to security risks |
• Heuristics for determining when a project has too many dependencies, including a hard line on cryptography and a focus on auditing and understanding dependencies |
• The importance of testing and auditing software to ensure reliability and security. |
• Concerns about the lack of transparency and trust in dependencies, particularly with npm and open-source software |
• Risks of supply chain attacks and the need for due diligence in auditing dependencies |
• Difficulty in building software that runs without a network connection, and the vanishingly rare skill of doing so |
• List of potential issues with dependencies, including: |
• Drifting away and requiring code adjustments |
• Silent changes in behavior |
• Abandonment or disappearance |
• Hijacking by nation-state actors |
• Monetization by new owners |
• Conflicting dependency requirements |
• Benefits of using established, stable technologies like SQLite |
• Discussion of the need for a more comprehensive dependency analysis tool or software |
• Bert Hubert's technique of using a dependency in isolation and engaging with the project to address issues. |
• The importance of carefully evaluating dependencies, including testing and reporting issues, to avoid potential problems |
• The need to balance enthusiasm for new technologies with a realistic assessment of their usefulness and longevity |
• The importance of continuous learning and adaptation in a rapidly changing field |
• The risk of becoming attached to outdated technologies and resisting change, potentially leading to career stagnation |
• The value of making a conscious decision to focus on familiar and comfortable technologies, rather than trying to keep up with the latest trends. |
• Bert Hubert's programming background and experience |
• His proficiency in multiple programming languages, including Python, JavaScript, C++, and Perl |
• His reliance on SQLite as a data handling framework |
• Criticism of current programming languages and frameworks, feeling they don't meet the ideal of being simple, fast, and safe |
• Desire for developing workflows instead of webpages, using a higher-level description and domain-specific programming languages |
• Concerns about the lack of progress in high-level interaction development and the prevalence of bespoke or low-code solutions |
• Discussion of AI and its potential benefits and risks, with a focus on the need for nuanced understanding and responsible use |
• Navigating the role of AI in software development |
• Using AI to assist with dependency management and triage |
• Balancing the use of AI with human judgment and decision-making |
• Selecting new technologies and evaluating their suitability |
• The importance of critical thinking and not relying solely on social proof |
• Using coworker feedback and presenting findings to stay honest and informed |
• Connecting with others online through platforms like Mastodon, LinkedIn, and RSS feeds |
• Importance of simplicity in software design |
• Goal of keeping software straightforward and uncomplicated |
**Jerod Santo:** We are here with Bert Hubert, a geeky entrepreneur from the Netherlands, with a 30-year track record in commercial and open source software. Bert, welcome to The Changelog. |
**Bert Hubert:** Yeah, thank you for having me. |
**Jerod Santo:** Happy to have you. Excited to talk about what you're up to these days and what you've been up to historically. 30 years - that's a long time. I read that you landed your first job hacking a cable internet provider? Do you want to tell that story? |
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